Need input on Combat Drone M.D.C.

[Jason Richards]

The book says that CDS have "limited M.D.C." but actually have more than a suit of NEMA armor. For this sort of general-purpose robot, should it have less M.D.C.?

I'm thinking it should be cut by probably 40%. As-is, it seems like a waste of materials, seeing as how even a few M.D.C. points makes them more or less invulnerable, and they're not really designed to be straight-up combat units.

Comments?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Well there could be two models. The original model as presented in the book is the full military grade. A second model with less MDC and equipped with non-lethal weapons and equipment to assist NEMA in apprehending criminals, fighting fire's, etc.

I see no reason why NEMA could not have both models either.

[Jason Richards]

Well there could be two models. The original model as presented in the book is the full military grade. A second model with less MDC and equipped with non-lethal weapons and equipment to assist NEMA in apprehending criminals, fighting fire's, etc.

I see no reason why NEMA could not have both models either.

But I'm trying to resolve the fact that "limited M.D.C." doesn't equal 128 main body. Should it be less?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Well 128 could be very minimal to the military, who designed it first.

I would view that it is simply the lowest 'armored' unit the US would field on a battlefield. Escort units for Glitter Boys for example.

[RockJock]

What I think Jason is trying to say is 10 MDC makes the drone that would be used for firefighting or civil defense totally immune to anything that would normally be thrown at it.

[RockJock]

I look at the later NG or Triax borgs being specially built to survive in a MDC environment, where most badguys are fully MDC. The Chaos Earth version really wouldn't have been. The same reason that the non glitter PAs and Bots have relatively low MDC>

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Civilian bot mdc 20-100 depending on work duty , unless you are going the I' Robot types then there would be a standard 30-50 MDC, don't want something to armored, if might have to take it down because of bad programming.

[RockJock]

I still take it that any amount of MDC was considered almost invulnerable, so why waste resources on more MDC Pre-Cataclysm? Look at the MDC of some of the NEMA units compared to later CS versions. Not the Samas or GB since they are glitter armored, but things like the APC, hover/sky cycles and similar. It isn't that NEMA didn't have the technology to put more MDC into their units, there just wasn't a need. That is why I think the drones should have significantly less armor then Rifts models.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I still take it that any amount of MDC was considered almost invulnerable, so why waste resources on more MDC Pre-Cataclysm? That is why I think the drones should have significantly less armor then Rifts models.

I uderstand, but let's consider a few other factors. There was the 2nd Cold War and a re-arming program underway as I recall, so creating a more heavily armored drone for the military makes sense. Might as well keep the advantage as long as possible. Not too mention there is a far greater budget and use of resources available to the pre-cataclysm society than post-cataclysm. So they could afford to use whatever. To them, it's likely not seen as a waste.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

128 is fine, as far as I am concerned.

Lord of Bones summed it up rather nicely, so no need for me to repeat it.

~ Josh

[Mech-Viper Prime]

well with the 2nd cold war the designers might have civilian model robots being capable of serving as combat models in a pinch

[Jason Richards]

Okay, you guys had me sold, but then I read the passage again:

Limited M.D.C. In the pre-Rifts world, the half dozen or so nations who held Mega-Damage technology controlled a superior technology. Thus, even a robot with only 20 or 30 M.D.C. was the equivalent of an S.D.C. tank, maybe even three or four tanks. That being the case, it wasn't necessary to make the Combat Drone Soldier heavily armored. After all, 95% of the opposition couldn't put a significant hurt on a Mega-Damage machine to begin with. However, in the Mega-Damage environment of Chaos Earth, the light amount of M.D.C. for all of NEMA's robots is a liability, and one that cannot be easily or quickly resolved (insufficient time, resources, and experts). Still, they are an excellent addition and give NEMA a leg up that few others have.

It seems clear here that they're talking about the Combat Drone Soldier (calls it by name), which has 128 Main Body M.D.C. So, maybe Lord of Bones is right, but man... it sure does sound like they're talking about a machine with much less M.D.C.

I just don't think this jibes. Am I alone on this one?

[RockJock]

I'm with you Jason, but it appears we are in the minority.

[Dustin Fireblade]

It's keeping a superior technological edge over everyone else. Something that the US will always attempt to maintain for as long as possible.

[RockJock]

Just by having MDC they have a technological advantage over almost everyone. The NEMA alliance may not want to completely show their hand to allies of enemies. You have NEMA, UK, German, Russia, Japan, China plus one or two others with MDC. There are some advantages to not showing the full capabilities of your technology unless you have to. Sort of the situation with the SR-71. You get the enegy to waste time designing to beat a weaker version of your technology. Then again, you could just have the media say it is weaker:)

[Spinachcat]

It seems clear here that they're talking about the Combat Drone Soldier (calls it by name), which has 128 Main Body M.D.C. So, maybe Lord of Bones is right, but man... it sure does sound like they're talking about a machine with much less M.D.C.

128 MDC for pre-Rifts sounds freaking huge. Could it be a typo? Could the right number be 12, 18 or 28? A combat drone with 12 MDC would be robocop in a setting where everyone is toting SDC weaponry and he could walk unharmed through any fire.

Also, what is the Palladium official decision on erratta? Is it possible that you could "re-stat" stuff from the core book to better align where you and PB want to see the series develop?

CE is a setting where I want to see our neighborhood's trusty Officer Robo get slammed by demons who just poured out of a screaming abyss. I want to feel the overwhelm aka Mechanoids where the poo-poo has hit the fan causing the fan to explode thus sending poo shrapnel spinning across the room. I want THAT kind of panic at my game table.

[Carl Gleba]

Okay, you guys had me sold, but then I read the passage again:

Limited M.D.C. In the pre-Rifts world, the half dozen or so nations who held Mega-Damage technology controlled a superior technology. Thus, even a robot with only 20 or 30 M.D.C. was the equivalent of an S.D.C. tank, maybe even three or four tanks. That being the case, it wasn't necessary to make the Combat Drone Soldier heavily armored. After all, 95% of the opposition couldn't put a significant hurt on a Mega-Damage machine to begin with. However, in the Mega-Damage environment of Chaos Earth, the light amount of M.D.C. for all of NEMA's robots is a liability, and one that cannot be easily or quickly resolved (insufficient time, resources, and experts). Still, they are an excellent addition and give NEMA a leg up that few others have.

It seems clear here that they're talking about the Combat Drone Soldier (calls it by name), which has 128 Main Body M.D.C. So, maybe Lord of Bones is right, but man... it sure does sound like they're talking about a machine with much less M.D.C.

I just don't think this jibes. Am I alone on this one?

So then get your answer from the author! I'm sure he'll give you his input

Carl

[Jason Richards]

Okay, you guys had me sold, but then I read the passage again:

Limited M.D.C. In the pre-Rifts world, the half dozen or so nations who held Mega-Damage technology controlled a superior technology. Thus, even a robot with only 20 or 30 M.D.C. was the equivalent of an S.D.C. tank, maybe even three or four tanks. That being the case, it wasn't necessary to make the Combat Drone Soldier heavily armored. After all, 95% of the opposition couldn't put a significant hurt on a Mega-Damage machine to begin with. However, in the Mega-Damage environment of Chaos Earth, the light amount of M.D.C. for all of NEMA's robots is a liability, and one that cannot be easily or quickly resolved (insufficient time, resources, and experts). Still, they are an excellent addition and give NEMA a leg up that few others have.

It seems clear here that they're talking about the Combat Drone Soldier (calls it by name), which has 128 Main Body M.D.C. So, maybe Lord of Bones is right, but man... it sure does sound like they're talking about a machine with much less M.D.C.

I just don't think this jibes. Am I alone on this one?

So then get your answer from the author! I'm sure he'll give you his input

Carl

It's been updated in the second printing/errata.

[Warwolf]

It seems clear here that they're talking about the Combat Drone Soldier (calls it by name), which has 128 Main Body M.D.C. So, maybe Lord of Bones is right, but man... it sure does sound like they're talking about a machine with much less M.D.C.

128 MDC for pre-Rifts sounds freaking huge. Could it be a typo? Could the right number be 12, 18 or 28? A combat drone with 12 MDC would be robocop in a setting where everyone is toting SDC weaponry and he could walk unharmed through any fire.

Well, considering pre-cataclysm technology was SUPERIOR to most current tech in Rifts, I'd say it isn't much of a stretch. The combat bot WOULD have a decent chunk of MDC, because it's a COMBAT bot. However, a peace-keeping and rescue drone may have minimal MDC (or potentially, high SDC). But, seeing as how NEMA has a crapload of high-MDC bots, power armor, weapons, and body armor... I don't see why their drones would be any different. Especially since I see NEMA doubling as a counter-insurgence or counter-invasion force if someone would have dared invade on a small or large scale... it was a paranoia-ridden cold-war atmosphere.

[RockJock]

As I remember things, most of the larger pieces of NEMA equipment are rather weak in terms of MDC compared to similar CS equipment. I'm not talking EBA, or the glitter armors, but things like the APC, sky cycle, and such. Even the non-glitter robots and PA are not that great in damage or MDC. The technology is of a higher level at the end of the Golden Age, but is't always geared toward straight up combat. Much of the equipment has multiple purposes, instead of being just a combat unit.

[Omega6]

Triax is a pre-rifts manufacturer. The book does not specify when their drones were first created, so I assume that they are pre-rifts designs to keep their tech level similar to the U.S.A.'s. The drones produced by Triax all have more M.D.C. than the CDS.

Also the CDS is barely tougher than a standard suit of NEMA armor; only 8 M.D.C. more. Coalition Skelebots, on the other hand, have 20 to 30 M.D.C. more than standard infantry armor.