Yak-38 Forger Sidebar

[glitterboy2098]

thank you.

(OOC [out of character]:
i'm not sure if the british ever did anything like that, but it was mentioned in Tom Clancy's "The Hunt for Red October" and i thought it interesting.
according to the novel:
since FLIR is a passive IR system, it can detect the heat from a Nuclear sub's reactor even while under water [though i imagine it would work best when the sub was close to the surface], and using that and a magnetomiter it allowed some succes in detecting subs.)

[Jefffar]

(OOC: Yeah, most ASW birds carry magnetic anamoly detectors. Those work nicely. I'm not sure how deep a FLIR could detect a sub. )

[Comrade Corsarius]

They were F-15s which were guided in by AWACS, something the local soviet forces lacked.

The F-14 encounter went a little worse off for the US forces, with one Yak-38 seriously damaging one and causing another tomcat to break off (they were agressively harassing the Yak flight and the russian pilot thought they were attacking). Of course, should the engagement have continued things may have been interesting for the Russian pilots, but in a one-on-one it was a net russian victory (cheaper fighter inflicting loss on expensive one. This is a lesson often learned in 'top gun' fighter schools around the world). I rather like the Yak fighter, which closely resembles a VFK fighter designed by the Germans in the late '60s. Mind you, my all-time favourite VTOL fighters are German anyway, the VJ-101c fighter and DO-31E transport forming the backbone of my hypothetical armoury. Both these aircraft really flew, and it is a wonder that they were never further developed.

[Jefffar]

Wellt he Forger is a subsonic aircraft lacking an air to air radar. Basically an F-14 has to screw up in order to let a Forger even find it, let alone get in a position to launch an attack.

That's why the Forger was withdrawn and replaced with the supersonic, radar equipped Freestyle. Incidently the Freestyle was the world's first supersonic VTOL combat aircraft. The JSF largely coppies the design's basic configuration.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Wellt he Forger is a subsonic aircraft lacking an air to air radar. Basically an F-14 has to screw up in order to let a Forger even find it, let alone get in a position to launch an attack.

That's why the Forger was withdrawn and replaced with the supersonic, radar equipped Freestyle. Incidently the Freestyle was the world's first supersonic VTOL combat aircraft. The JSF largely coppies the design's basic configuration.

Sorry to do this to you, dude, but you're wrong again. The Yak-141 nearly made it into service (how I wish it did) and obviously did so in your robotech timeline, and a potent little bird it is. I recall at the beginning of the JSF competition that British Aerospace had contacted yakovlev for design assistance, which was eventually passed on to Lockheed, so you are actually more than correct in saying that Yakovlev had a fair hand in the F-35. However, you are not quite correct with your other facts. The Yak-38 was transonic at altitude (only just, though) and there were other supersonic vtol combat aircraft that came before the Yak-41. I'd refer to the Mirage IIIG (which I believe was the first operational) and the VJ-101c (which was supersonic in prototype form but did not carry any armament)

[Jefffar]

Hmm, my sources didn't mention the Yak-38 could breach the speed of sound in anything but a dive, and since it has no afterburner, this seems logical.

According to the source I read, the Yak-41 was actually ordered for service. That's farther along than the Mirage IIIg got which was only a prototype. However the money for the Yak project did run out when the USSR collased, that would be why it didn't see service. I do occasionally come across references to one squadron being ready to go.

[Comrade Corsarius]

Nope. Any reference you see to a squadron of Yak-41 Freestyles is bogus. There were only the two prototypes made.

[NoJack]

I'd take a russian Jet over a mirage any day. Yaks are ok, but the SU-35... word's just aren't enough. This thing flies rings around the (cough) F-22 and it's a real shame that the Russians don't have the money to build them.

[Jefffar]

The current generation of Russian Air to Air missiles is typically the equal to their Western counterparts in terms of accurcy, and often supperior in terms of range and sped. Where they fall down is their sensors are a little easier to jam.

[Svartalf]

I second Jefffar ...

the Su 35 and other recent planes are equipped with missiles that are so close in prformance to the AMRAAM that they were dubbed AMRAAMSKY by some wit... don't remember their official denomination ... the game where I discovered them stopped working when I converted my hog to WXP

[Comrade Corsarius]

Remember also that ALL Soviet frontal aviation aircraft, from the Su-27/33/35 down to the lowliest trainer are equipped to operate from rugged and semi-prepared dirt strips. This gives the Russian airforce a flexibility that the western powers lack (and occasionally do not appreiciate), so your F-15 is a great plane, but can it operate of a nice paved strip, and what about FOD ingestion during takeoff? The Russians cracked this and have a more flexible frontal aviation than anyone save the English (with their Harriers) and (eventually) the americans (with their F-35, made with Yakovlev input).

[Jefffar]

What does this topic have to do with robotech?

It was split fromt his topic: http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/viewtopic.php?t=22444

[Comrade Corsarius]

thats if they are properly maintained and the soviet military is far from being properly maintained.
their actual combat assets are way,way down then what they had before.
they are in a slow rebuild with this chetchnya debacle proving just how poor their equipment has been lately.

I agree that their maintenance is currently pretty poor, but the flexibility is something built into the airframe, not special equipment. A Su-25 can operate from a plowed field. An A-10 cannot, although both aircraft have similar roles. It's the design of the thing that makes it impressive, not macho america-is-best arrogance, or the lamentable state of a military's financial budget currently. I really don't care who designed or built the planes, that they are impressive is my only care.

(I removed something that on reflection appeared political and inflammatory)

[Svartalf]

mmmhhh.... yeah... a sopwith camel with a partical beam gun mounted on instead of the traditional machinegun ... an a nuclear engine to replace the old gas thing ... that should give some people a pretty surprise

[Jefffar]

Especially the pilot when the excess heat from the particle beam ignites the wood and fabric airframe!

[Jefffar]

The F1 - Ford Pinto comparison isn't accurate.

Both American and Russian Jets are designed for high performance.

Both sides built planes that were fast and agile. In raw airframe performance, I'd be hard pressed to say that a Sukhoi out does an F15 or that an F16 out does a MiG.

The difference is int he electronic flight controsl and snesor systems that are used to control thse air frames. At one tiem the Americans ahd a big, big, big lead. Currently, I think the Russians are closing the gap somewhat.

When the F-22 takes to thes kys in a combat deployment, that advantage will be (at least temporarily) restored.

But, at that point, for the cost of one American fighter, it will probably be possible to purchase a squadron of Russian fighters.

One on one the American might hold the advantage. But when he's used up all his missiles, and another dozen Russian jets have closed to visual range, he's SOL.

In short the American fighter programs might have remained tactically superior, but not necissarily strategically or economically.