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 Post subject: Beta Fighter/Bomber
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:14 pm
  

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Pretty sure I actually asked this question about three years ago and got an answer of no. Then prompltly ignored it and said yes any way, because I needed it for a plot device. Just wondering how others play it. The question was, "Does the Beta fighter carry a Cylone like the Alpha ?" the official answer was no, but I wanted the two PC's to be able to both go dungeon crawling in Cylones together.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:24 pm
  

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well, the listing of equipment is for both the alpha and beta, and on the list is the cyclone storage compartment. nowhere does it say its restricted to the alpha.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:27 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Funny, I don't remember the Beta Fighter not having room to carry a Cyclone, be it in a Cyclone compartment or not. So I'd say go for it.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:27 pm
  

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Good point, will have to check when i get home. For some reason I have never actually read the standard equipment of the mechs ! skimmed through a couple of times and thats about all.

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I let my wife play rifts once....................she shot me in the back of the head with a naruni plasma pistol, gaffa taped a type 4 fusion block to my nether regions, and kicked my ass off the apc travelling at 100 MPH

gimme a break, my pc is a playa, not me.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:34 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Rimmer wrote:
Good point, will have to check when i get home. For some reason I have never actually read the standard equipment of the mechs ! skimmed through a couple of times and thats about all.


Even if the Beta doesn't have the specialized compartment, it has space enough for two passengers (we see this in the series), and therein is enough room for quite a bit of junk, really, including a Cyclone.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:38 pm
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
Even if KS forgot to included the Beta's Cyclone listing, there's a ton of space for all kinds of goodies. Two passengers in the cockpit alone. I'm pretty sure that the Beta has a cyclone compartment. If you don't find the listing, I'd just use the Alpha's listing for it's compartment.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:39 pm
  

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At the very least, you could remove some of the bombs to make way for a cyclone, folded down they are very small.

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I let my wife play rifts once....................she shot me in the back of the head with a naruni plasma pistol, gaffa taped a type 4 fusion block to my nether regions, and kicked my ass off the apc travelling at 100 MPH

gimme a break, my pc is a playa, not me.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:43 pm
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
Rimmer wrote:
At the very least, you could remove some of the bombs to make way for a cyclone, folded down they are very small.


Dr. Lang: "And should the Alpha fighter get shot down I have included a space for the new Cyclone mecha in the fighter. That increases the probability of the very expensive Alpha pilot surviving unfortunate circumstances. Similarly, should the Beta fighter pilot be caught in the same bad luck, we have set aside a place to store the newest Razor Scooter..."

Beta pilots: "DO'H!"

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:45 pm
  

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
*envisions Beta pilots forced to rely on Gallant H-90's, CVR-3 body armor, and hovering skate boards*


........ :eek:

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:48 pm
  

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Another thing I thought I might ask, when the Beta is connected to the Alpha in the Legios combination, the Beta is kinda just along for the ride, the Alpha pilot does all the flying, dodging etc using his attacks per melee and alpha bonuses, while the beta just fires a few missiles here and there, engages the big rockets when asked, and just generally provides moral support, what else can he do ? do you really use the Alpha bonuses or the beta ? Who does what ?

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I let my wife play rifts once....................she shot me in the back of the head with a naruni plasma pistol, gaffa taped a type 4 fusion block to my nether regions, and kicked my ass off the apc travelling at 100 MPH

gimme a break, my pc is a playa, not me.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:51 pm
  

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Rimmer wrote:
Another thing I thought I might ask, when the Beta is connected to the Alpha in the Legios combination, the Beta is kinda just along for the ride, the Alpha pilot does all the flying, dodging etc using his attacks per melee and alpha bonuses, while the beta just fires a few missiles here and there, engages the big rockets when asked, and just generally provides moral support, what else can he do ? do you really use the Alpha bonuses or the beta ? Who does what ?


I belive you can fly from either cockpit. So one guy does the flying, and another does the shooting. I think that the intention was the Beta pilot fly, and he's supported by his crew, a gunner and com officer, while the Alpha pilot is basicly a second gunner using the Alpha's weapon systems. However the REF didn't have the man power which is why they had to resort to cloning, Right Z? :p

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:53 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Quiet, you.


(tiny edit: ok, I'm going to take a while off from posting, so I can eat and get my Robotech alternate universe thread post done for tonight. When I get back, you had better be well over 18200, Taf)

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:55 pm
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
Zerebus wrote:
Quiet, you.


(tiny edit: ok, I'm going to take a while off from posting, so I can eat and get my Robotech alternate universe thread post done for tonight. When I get back, you had better be well over 18200, Taf)


Sir yes sir!

Besides, I can go on for days and days about the secert cloning techniques of the earth forces... :)

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:50 pm
  

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I know this may be a tad of topic, but it is related to the Cyclone Storage SNAFU.

Given the larger size of the VF-1V Vindicator over the Alpha, does it get 2 Cyclones?

Alpha fighter (Jet mode)

Height: 15 ft
Width: 22 ft
Length: 34 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--500 lb limit

Vindicator (Jet mode)

Height: 22 ft
Width: 46 ft
Length: 47 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--1000 lb limit

And the Vindicator's size allows it to carry two people (albeit cramped), while the Alpha only one...period.

I have no idea why this came to me, but food for thought.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:54 am
  

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Knight

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Pox wrote:
I know this may be a tad of topic, but it is related to the Cyclone Storage SNAFU.

Given the larger size of the VF-1V Vindicator over the Alpha, does it get 2 Cyclones?

Alpha fighter (Jet mode)

Height: 15 ft
Width: 22 ft
Length: 34 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--500 lb limit

Vindicator (Jet mode)

Height: 22 ft
Width: 46 ft
Length: 47 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--1000 lb limit

And the Vindicator's size allows it to carry two people (albeit cramped), while the Alpha only one...period.

I have no idea why this came to me, but food for thought.


Actually, the Vindicator itself is a SNAFU, if you ask me. Mainly because the Vindicators in the series are in fact Shadow Alphas, and the Shadow Fighters in the series are in fact Shadow Alpha Drones, like the Alpha Drones used by Donald Maxwell in that mountain pass episode of New Generation.

That said.....

One pilot equals one Cyclone. If the Vindicator has a co-pilot, then two Cyclones.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:58 am
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
Zerebus wrote:
Actually, the Vindicator itself is a SNAFU, if you ask me. Mainly because the Vindicators in the series are in fact Shadow Alphas, and the Shadow Fighters in the series are in fact Shadow Alpha Drones, like the Alpha Drones used by Donald Maxwell in that mountain pass episode of New Generation.

That said.....

One pilot equals one Cyclone. If the Vindicator has a co-pilot, then two Cyclones.


Was there a D modle for the Vind?

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:32 pm
  

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Zerebus wrote:
Pox wrote:
I know this may be a tad of topic, but it is related to the Cyclone Storage SNAFU.

Given the larger size of the VF-1V Vindicator over the Alpha, does it get 2 Cyclones?

Alpha fighter (Jet mode)

Height: 15 ft
Width: 22 ft
Length: 34 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--500 lb limit

Vindicator (Jet mode)

Height: 22 ft
Width: 46 ft
Length: 47 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--1000 lb limit

And the Vindicator's size allows it to carry two people (albeit cramped), while the Alpha only one...period.

I have no idea why this came to me, but food for thought.


Actually, the Vindicator itself is a SNAFU, if you ask me. Mainly because the Vindicators in the series are in fact Shadow Alphas, and the Shadow Fighters in the series are in fact Shadow Alpha Drones, like the Alpha Drones used by Donald Maxwell in that mountain pass episode of New Generation.

That said.....

One pilot equals one Cyclone. If the Vindicator has a co-pilot, then two Cyclones.


Yeah, I know all about that goof-up. I was just wondering if there was a loophole that could be exploited. Like I said, this notion just came to me.

Also, the additional person isnt a co-pilot if you go by Sentinels, but that whole enough room to sit in the lap of the pilot thing.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:38 pm
  

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Pox wrote:
Zerebus wrote:
Pox wrote:
I know this may be a tad of topic, but it is related to the Cyclone Storage SNAFU.

Given the larger size of the VF-1V Vindicator over the Alpha, does it get 2 Cyclones?

Alpha fighter (Jet mode)

Height: 15 ft
Width: 22 ft
Length: 34 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--500 lb limit

Vindicator (Jet mode)

Height: 22 ft
Width: 46 ft
Length: 47 ft
Cargo: Unless Cyclone is removed none--1000 lb limit

And the Vindicator's size allows it to carry two people (albeit cramped), while the Alpha only one...period.

I have no idea why this came to me, but food for thought.


Actually, the Vindicator itself is a SNAFU, if you ask me. Mainly because the Vindicators in the series are in fact Shadow Alphas, and the Shadow Fighters in the series are in fact Shadow Alpha Drones, like the Alpha Drones used by Donald Maxwell in that mountain pass episode of New Generation.

That said.....

One pilot equals one Cyclone. If the Vindicator has a co-pilot, then two Cyclones.


Yeah, I know all about that goof-up. I was just wondering if there was a loophole that could be exploited. Like I said, this notion just came to me.

Also, the additional person isnt a co-pilot if you go by Sentinels, but that whole enough room to sit in the lap of the pilot thing.


Basicaly while I would say that 2 seat trainers would NOT have a cyclone, its posible that if their was a 2 seat combat variant of the alfa (or in the case of the beta more than 2 seats) it would have a Cyclone for each crewman otherwise HECK NO

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:54 pm
  

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Given the smaller stature of the Alphas, I'm not sure a VT-Trainer mod would work. Besides, it appeared that they had far better flight simulators by then.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:32 pm
  

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Actualy their is (posibly fan art) of a 2 seater version of the alfa in jet mode that was a partial cutaway(and yes it showed both seats), But I dont know where its at right now. Its posible that it was non transformable though.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:29 am
  

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If so, the nose would extend forward by a huge margin, not to mention it'd lead to the flaw that transformable Alpha Fighter toys frequently suffer from, nose down to beyond the knees :)

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:41 pm
  

Guess I'll put my two cents in!

If you remember in the Robotech series in almost next to the last one "the Dark Final episode", Scott flies over Marlene and Annie in the Beta and hovers above them and a rope comes out of the lower rear side of the Beta and pulls Marlene and Annie up into a compartment that is pretty large. I'd say at least 5 feet wide by 6 feet long by 4 feet high.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:50 pm
  

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I think that was the bomb bay.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:15 pm
  

Pax Concord wrote:
I think that was the bomb bay.


Well, it's possible it was but why would rope be installed in a bomb bay with a side door ?


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:54 pm
  

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plot device.
is as far as i could see anyways.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:27 pm
  

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Probably was a crew access hatch to assist in loading the bomb bay. Don't forget too that the "Beta" can be used to insert Cyclone Riders so it could also be possible that it was an access door for said Cycloners. It might actually be that scene that gave the idea to have the "Beta" transport Cyclone Riders in the RPG.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:49 pm
  

Major Fury wrote:
Probably was a crew access hatch to assist in loading the bomb bay. Don't forget too that the "Beta" can be used to insert Cyclone Riders so it could also be possible that it was an access door for said Cycloners. It might actually be that scene that gave the idea to have the "Beta" transport Cyclone Riders in the RPG.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:06 pm
  

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Dozen't the Beta normally have 2 extra seats? I don't have my book handy to check.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:24 pm
  

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Yeah it does, 1 is a communications suite and the other is a senor/weapons suite. They were provided so that the pilot, if the other stations are crewed, could concentrate on piloting and the other crew members would handle the weapons and communications. This is pretty standard on most heavy bombers going back to WWII.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 8:27 pm
  

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*walks past the discussion with a "Second seat doesn't exist in TV series" banner*

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:12 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Cyclone wrote:
*walks past the discussion with a "Second seat doesn't exist in TV series" banner*


So that thing Mint and Marlene were sitting on was a love seat? :D

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:41 pm
  

Explorer

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No, they sat in the bomb/cargo bay, which also points to the lack of second seat...

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:12 pm
  

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Zerebus wrote:
So that thing Mint and Marlene were sitting on was a love seat? :D


God this conjures up the image of the old Sketch comedy series "The State" and the two 70s love machines in all the valore goodness.

Barry Bon Soir: It ain't no couch
Levon: Not a sofa in sight.
Barry & Levon: This here is...a love seat.
Barry: The Seat d'mor.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:23 pm
  

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Knight

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Comment: Eat More Chicken
Cyclone wrote:
No, they sat in the bomb/cargo bay, which also points to the lack of second seat...


No, I think it was a love seat. Its apparent lack of cushioning was because of its... um.... futuristic design! Yeah, that's it.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:15 pm
  

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I say go with the cargo space idea.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:23 am
  

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Zerebus wrote:
Actually, the Vindicator itself is a SNAFU, if you ask me. Mainly because the Vindicators in the series are in fact Shadow Alphas, and the Shadow Fighters in the series are in fact Shadow Alpha Drones, like the Alpha Drones used by Donald Maxwell in that mountain pass episode of New Generation.

That said.....

One pilot equals one Cyclone. If the Vindicator has a co-pilot, then two Cyclones.


well... uh... don't laugh at me... I'm still in the process of first viewing the trilogy, and in the middle of Southern Cross, so I don't know anything about Mospeada & co that isn't in the RPG books... but what's that stuff about the Vindicator being a Shadow alpha and the Series Shadow alphas being drones? until I'm done resting my lustful eyes on the whole series, I'm a fraid I find this a little confusing to say the least, since by the info I've got, the vind, though outfitted *like* a shadow alpha, still is a whole different kettle of fish, given its size.

at least one thing I'm sure, is that it's listed as having the same man room as the olf VF series veritechs : one pilot, and only minmei style cuddly people allowed for passengers as it would be most uncomfortable trying to pilot with a Fokker or Lunk style giant on one's lap.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:34 am
  

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Knight

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to go on with the multi seat discussion....
a) the Alpha is a one seater . period!
b) the beta has a 3 seater cockpit
c) this isn't incompatible with Scott having installed a futuristic styled love seat in his beta's bomb bay, since he did not have bombs to stow there anyway and that's where Annie and Marlene went because it was easy to send down a rope ladder from the access hatch while landing and all the stuff needed to give them comfy seats in the cocpit would have been a real hassle

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:51 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:39 pm
Posts: 3230
Location: Paris, France
Comment: Beware of the Friar Tuck type putting on the French Maid outfit!
concerning the initial cyclone question... the boox are full of surprises : both the Alpha and the Vindicator descriptions mention the fact that the only cargo space available is the cyclone storing bay... no mention of this appears in the description of the beta, not in the section concerning equipment common to all veritech fighters.

However, the OCC section, in both Invid invasion and sentinels, mentions that all veritech pilots, whether alpha or beta, *do* have access to a VR 52 cyclone, Sentinels even goes on to precise that one is stored in the beta too...

that's what I'd call a *very* indirect confirmation, and one which isn't directly supported by the anime canon, but it's fairly logical, and long frequentation of Palladium products, as well as some *others* especially in their 1st edition, has made me accustomed to finding much needed information in the most unexpected quarters. what *isn't* precised anywhere is whether the beta cyclone bay has room for 3 cyclones or only for one... personnally, II'd vote 4 3 ... until I've seen the series which maybe will make me know better.

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Svartalf - Flamboyantly Fresh Franco of Freedom Freakin' Fries : Shadyslug
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug - Cherico
PC stands for "patronizing cretin" G'mo
I name you honorary American Subjugator & Ratbastard


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:56 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 4867
Location: High Priest of Reg
Comment: Eat More Chicken
svartalf wrote:
Zerebus wrote:
Actually, the Vindicator itself is a SNAFU, if you ask me. Mainly because the Vindicators in the series are in fact Shadow Alphas, and the Shadow Fighters in the series are in fact Shadow Alpha Drones, like the Alpha Drones used by Donald Maxwell in that mountain pass episode of New Generation.

That said.....

One pilot equals one Cyclone. If the Vindicator has a co-pilot, then two Cyclones.


well... uh... don't laugh at me... I'm still in the process of first viewing the trilogy, and in the middle of Southern Cross, so I don't know anything about Mospeada & co that isn't in the RPG books... but what's that stuff about the Vindicator being a Shadow alpha and the Series Shadow alphas being drones?


A drone fighter, in this case, is the equivalent of a Macross Ghost Fighter, except they applied the AI to a transformable veritech fighter. The images presented in the RPG books for the Shadow Alpha and Vindicator are mislabeled images of the Shadow Drone and the regular Shadow Alpha, respectfully.

Also, the Shadow Alpha in the RPG is listed as having extra missiles, but if you look at the picture, you'll notice that the shoulder missile pods from the regular Alpha Fighter are nowhere to be scene. The extra missile pods on the Shadow Alpha's torso are in fact the shoulder missile pods, having been moved inwards since the Alpha DRONE didn't have a pilot's compartment.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:16 pm
  

Explorer

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 141
Location: Queensland, Australia
Just like to point out the Beta bomb-bay has the empty space where non-frisky living Marlene and Annie sat always, the bombs are stored in those handy dandy dispencing racks to the side...

When non-frisky living Marlene and Annie were in there you could even seem the empty after Scott dropped them all.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:25 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 4867
Location: High Priest of Reg
Comment: Eat More Chicken
Cyclone wrote:
When non-frisky living Marlene and Annie were in there you could even seem them empty after Scott dropped them all.


Episode number, please? If it's something in the full version of Mospeada, then I'd like to hunt for it and see for myself.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:37 pm
  

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Champion

Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 9:17 pm
Posts: 2571
Location: Monument City, UEF HQ
Quote:
Episode number, please? If it's something in the full version of Mospeada, then I'd like to hunt for it and see for myself.


Eps. #83 Reflex Point shows Marlene sitting in the cargo bay when Scott does a bomb run to try and nail the Royal Command Battloid in that episode.


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