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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:12 pm
  

D-Bee

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This actually came up while we were playing a game on saturday.

One of the other players said that the cyclone doesn't have a robotic strength. He based this off the cyclone stating Physical strength 40 (+25 sdc damage). He thinks that the cyclone is closer to the NGR Heavy cyclops armor. An exoskeleton that adds to the strength of the pilot, but is not a full robot strength.

1) The reason I disagree is for armor like that (Coalition heavy armor, Ngr heavy cyclops armor... It lists a bonus to the user's strength, it does not list a total. I believe it is +10 for both of those. The Tornado in Robotech strike force also falls into this category and lists a +15 strength bonus to the user. The Cyclone clearly states a PS of 40 which is how all robotic strength PA are listed, (such as the samas, glitter boy, etc...)

2) The armors that add bonuses to the users strength do not do mega damage on punches. Even the Tornado says it adds to the sdc damage of the pilot. The Cyclone on the other hand does do MDC hand to hand attacks. If it did not posses a robotic strength I do not think this would be possible. The listing of +25 sdc damage after the strength is listed, is in my opinion either an oversight by the writer (and god knows there are plenty of those) or in reference to the restrained punch which actually does sdc damage.

Now how is it that the cyclone would even get a strength bonus since the only thing that even attaches to the arms are the weapon wrist plates? Well the only thing that would makes sense, and be at least a little believable, would be if the CVR-3 had built in "robotic muscles" or something to that affect that were inactive until attached to the protoculture power source of the cyclone. This means that it is really the CVR-3 that increases the strength, but only when attached to the cyclone.

What is your opinion? Robotic strength or regular strength?


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:19 pm
  

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Robot strength doesn't really exist in Robotech. Robots have listed lifting capcities. So the Cyclone is the equivalent normal strength.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:27 pm
  

D-Bee

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Do you think Robotic strength would exist in Robotech if Palladium published it in 2004 instead of 88? Just like the Mechanoisd being SDC in the original game, but when the new game finally comes out I bet they will be MDC. Mdc simply did not exist when the game came out.

I know that robotic strength isn't listed in the rules of robotech, but thats because the rules for robotic strength had not been developed yet. As all palladium uses a "megaversal system" I think that logically that means robots and power armor would follow the same laws as other "MDC" palladium games.

If the Cyclone is the equivalent of normal strength than logically it should not do MDC damage in hand to hand.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:30 pm
  

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
Robotic Strength wasn't in the origional Rifts Main Book but the robots there still did MDC in hand to hand

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:38 pm
  

D-Bee

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True, but then it was clarified that they had a robotic strength. When the rules were updated.

If they made a robot now that didn't have a robotic strength but did mdc in hand to hand then it wouldn't make much sense as there are rules that dictate why the robot does mdc. Whic is why most Cyborgs generally don't do MDC. Again there are exceptions, but usually they explain why it is an exception.

And, again, if a new addition of rifts was published all the robots in the main book would be correctly listed as having a robotic strength.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:42 pm
  

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captain_Killern wrote:
As all palladium uses a "megaversal system" I think that logically that means robots and power armor would follow the same laws as other "MDC" palladium games.


Who ever said this was logical?

If you want to implement a later rule, go ahead.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:37 pm
  

Adam of the Old Kingdom wrote:
captain_Killern wrote:
As all palladium uses a "megaversal system" I think that logically that means robots and power armor would follow the same laws as other "MDC" palladium games.


Who ever said this was logical?

If you want to implement a later rule, go ahead.


I think he's looking for opinions & facts before he try and implement it to the GM :D

As this forum is a great source of opinion and information!


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:25 pm
  

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in that case, I will repeat what others have said.

the RT setting rules are different to try and capture the feel of the Robotech TV series.
if you compare all mecha info from rifts to RT you can see that RT is as fast but lighter on damage capacity. I would say this is because RT has less powerfull systems but lighter armor and thus the cyclone PS is a normal PS of 40.

the Robot strength is (a bandaid) for rifts, the lower power levels for RT do not warrent the same system.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:16 pm
  

D-Bee

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Ok, robotech is less powered than Rifts, but was it meant to be?

Is the only reason it is less powered because it was published first? If it was published now I don't think this would be an issue. The reasoning I am getting is because the sytem didn't use it. Ok, but it wasn't like there was a concious decision made to make Robotech weaker than it should be. At the time the rules came out, Robotech was powerful. The rules just moved on, and since Robotech was Palladiums step child they never made the move when Palldium divorced its self from Robotech. Unfortunately we will never get a "revised" version of Robotech. So the options are either let it stagnate, or when the rules change move with them. Our group for example has implemented the -10 dodge rule in Robotech, and the extra 2 attacks. These weren't in the original robotech, but In the core Palladium rules this is how it is done.

It is obvious that not everyone agrees on whether Robotech should move with the times, but based on How palladium does Robotic strength, and based on how the cyclone is presened in the game and in the series would you say the cyclone would have a robotic strength or a enhanced normal strength? For those of you who feel uncomfortable answering the question in that form, I will rephrase it. If the Cyclone was a Power Armor on Rifts earth, presented the exact way it is in the Sentinels book, would you say it had a Robotic strength or not? I have listed the reasons why I think it would. If you agree or disagree then I would like to hear why.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:45 pm
  

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it's not just that it was made long ago, KS and PB had their chance to address the differences between RT and Rifts in Convertion book 1 and all they allowed was a bit more armour.

The whole of RT is different from Rifts in feel, the limited OCCs, the Skills all point towards a style of game. for Rifts it is different because they have had 100 years more technological development than in RT, which had 10 years to sort out some alien tech. then Rifts had the rifts so we got heavy MDC all over the place with magic and demons all over, not just as the main bad guys (like in fantacy) but as your common major menace.

I am also basing my view on statements made by Wayne (or was it eric :-? ) in these forums about the style and intent of RT.

So, I would say RT was meant to be less powerful than rifts.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:59 pm
  

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At this time I'd like to point out that as per page 4 of the Robotech RPG a PS of 24 or higher provides the same weight capacity as Supernatural Strength in Rifts (carry PSx50 lbs., lift PSx100 lbs.) which is twice as much as Rifts Robotic Strength anyway.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:50 am
  

D-Bee

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Well assuming the cyclone was first used around 2026 then they actually had 27 years to sort through Alien technology, added to this they had the best minds of 3 races to work on tech. Exedor, Kabel, and Lang. They had a pretty good grasp on the technology as new mecha and equipment were produced better and smaller in a relatively short time span. The creation of the cyclone is proof of thier abilities.

I don't agree with the statement that Robotech was meant to be less powerful. The sheer number of missiles, ships, Syncro cannon, etc. points that this is not so. The Zentraedi were the warriors of a race that spanned the Universe for centeries? The Bioroids were the elite corp of fighters for this Race. Now while I can agree that the Coalition has had more reason to develope new weapons, and neccesity is the mother of invention, but to say that Rifts earth is so much higher in technology after 100 years, 150 years? FIr this I point to the Zentraedi fleet, the cloning chambers, the robotch masters ships, space fold. And just Like the coalition had to adapt quickly and thus develope new weapons quicly so did the RDF/SothernCross/REF. Having 3 Alien Races invade your planet in 35 years sucks, maybe not as bad as Demons, but it still sucks.

Either way, I did not mean for this to turn into a debate on story/technology, It was to get an opinion on Game mechanics. No one has answered the questions I have asked. I will ask them one more time, and if again nobody chooses to answer them, then I will let it die.

1) If a new version of Robotech was released do you think that it would us Palladiums revised system, including robotic strength, -10 dodge, +2 attacks, New skills, etc. Or Keep the same outdated version of Palladium's system that you find currently in the robotech books.

2) If you saw the Listing of the Cyclone in a Rifts book, would you assume that the PS listed would be an Enhanced normal strength or a robotic strength.

3) Along the same line of questioning, when Mechanoids was released MDC did not exist. If a new version of the game comes out will it be MDC or SDC?


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:26 pm
  

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captain_Killern wrote:
1) If a new version of Robotech was released do you think that it would us Palladiums revised system, including robotic strength, -10 dodge, +2 attacks, New skills, etc. Or Keep the same outdated version of Palladium's system that you find currently in the robotech books.

2) If you saw the Listing of the Cyclone in a Rifts book, would you assume that the PS listed would be an Enhanced normal strength or a robotic strength.

3) Along the same line of questioning, when Mechanoids was released MDC did not exist. If a new version of the game comes out will it be MDC or SDC?


1) It would undoubtedly be updated. At this time though such a game likely won't be a Palladium product anyway.

2) Robotic, as per all Power Armor (even though that actually makes it weaker than its Robotech equivalent).

3) Supposedly Mechanoid Space (whenever it gets written) will be an SDC game with MDC conversions included.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:45 pm
  

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captain_Killern wrote:
1) If a new version of Robotech was released do you think that it would us Palladiums revised system, including robotic strength, -10 dodge, +2 attacks, New skills, etc. Or Keep the same outdated version of Palladium's system that you find currently in the robotech books.

2) If you saw the Listing of the Cyclone in a Rifts book, would you assume that the PS listed would be an Enhanced normal strength or a robotic strength.

3) Along the same line of questioning, when Mechanoids was released MDC did not exist. If a new version of the game comes out will it be MDC or SDC?


1: Hard to say. As I said before, RT is light fast and anime, Rifts is heavy dark and evil. but chances are PB would cookie cut it into the current rift variant, it would depend on who did the work on the books.

2: rift s book? Robot strength.

3: I'd expect MDC.

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