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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:32 am
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
We know that mecha can be driven by nuclear power sources, in place of the protoculture power plant. But if one can power their mecha with a fusion engine, why bother with invid attracting protoculture at all?

Protoculture as a power source is a miricle energy source. The easiest way to reflect that concept is in how small a power plant it uses to gain the impressive results we see and in how responsive devices powered by protoculture are to the pilot. So machines using Nuclear power sources should be less capable then their protoculture powered counter parts. Here are some guidelines that I've been tinkering with, with some help from Corsarius.

Weight increase. A fusion reactor needs heat sheilding, and alot of it. Super heated plasma requires a special magnetic containment field and a whole slew of other needs. So increase the machine's weight by 10%. On the up side, that extra weight makes physical attacks more potent, incease a physical attack damage by 10% (easy thing to do is just add +1 MD per dice rolled. 2d4 punch would become 2d4+2 punch).

Loss of speed. With the snap of protoculture power gone, and the extra weight of the fussion engine, the mecha just doesn't have the pop it used to. New safty standards need to be addressed with that fussion engine in place. Violent motion could shake loose a item that really isn't meant to be shaken up. Cut the speed by 20%.

Loss of responsiveness. The machine no longer is an extention of the pilot. Instead, the pilot now has to struggle though each action just like the Soviet Pilots did. There for, reduce all attacks, combat bonuses and the like derived from Mecha combat skills by one third. Pilot statistics are unchanged, which makes training all the more important.

Energy weapons don't have the same *umph*. The Fusion reactor can't provide the same kind of power to the energy weapons that the protoculture system could. Cut the damage by about 25% for all energy weapons, including particle beams, lasers, Ion weapons, and Plasma. The PBCs from the Excaliber would deal 4d10+15, for example. The Ion Cannon of the Hover Tank would deal 2d4x10. Further, these weapons don't have the same range, cut range by 10%. While the beam focus is still the same, the machine can no longer afford the power that weapon demands.

Reduced MDC. MDC is not a measure of armor value, rather it's a value of how much of damage the machine can take before it stops working. A fussion engine is more fragile then a protoculutre power plant, and an easier (larger) target to hit and/or disrupt. Further, the limbs need to spend more weight and space on load bearing and heat disappation equipment, as well as a movement profile that doesn't rearrange the internal space (where once their was a joint, now we have a solid weld). Reduce MDC of the mainbody and all major appendages (arms and legs) by 10%.

Loss of internal spaces. Since that engine is not only heavier but also bigger, their is less room for other internal systems, like the Reinforced Pilot's Compartment. Reduce it's MDC by 10%.

So, now that we have our guide lines, lets look at RDF Gladiator under then new specs and see how it comes out. Now this is of course assuming RDF/ASC/REF technical expertise. Lacking that, then you might apply the penilties listed under EBSIS RDF MECHA section of the RDF manuel, page 29, or some hybrid of the two (GMs discression and some logic).

* Note, math is ball parked for ease of use.

Gladiator-N variant.
MDC by Location.
Arms (2): 145 each
Main Body: 225
Legs (2): 225
Reinforced Crew Compartment: 225
All others standard.

Speed: 52 MPH max.
Weight: 30.1 tons fully loaded.

ROV-10 Laser turret.
Mega-Damage: 3d6 per blast,
Range: 3200 ft.
All other features standard.

TZ-IV Gun Cluster.
Laser: Deals 2d4 MD
Range: 1800 ft.
All other features Standard.


Mecha combat bonuses for the Gladiator.
2 Hand to Hand attacks per Melee (plus those of the pilot)
+1 to roll with a punch, fall or impact, reducing damage by half.
Double damage on a natural 20 (instead of tripple as was normal).
Mace Bonus: +1 to parry.
Critical strike same as the pilot's hand to hand.
One additional attack at level 6.
One additional attack at level 11.

Damage:
Restrained Punch/slap: 1d4+1
Full Strength punch: 2d6+2
Power punch: 2d6+6
Mace: Adds +1d6+1 to punch damages.
Body block: 2d4+2
Stomp: 1d4+1
Tear or pry with hands: 1d4+1 (nit picky GMs might rule that their are times where the extra weight doesn't help here, adjucate to your black heart's content here).

So there you have a pretty good look at what a RDF Mecha would look like with out it's protoculture energy source. Falls in line with what the EBSIS can do though we can see that our Gladiator is still better off then either the rebuilt Type II-G Gladiator or the Soldati Battloid. So it holds with the RDF/ASC/REF using advanced technologies and sciences, but along the same line and application as the EBSIS' efforts.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:34 pm
  

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Intersting. I've always thought that regular nuclear powered mecha was too tough when compared to protoculter mecha. BTW, would you use this formula for EBSIS mecha or would you leave thier stats "as is"?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:35 pm
  

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Taffy said in the post to use the stats as listed in the RDF manual for the EBSIS varients. The new stats he lists are for if the mods were done by RDF/REF techs.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:39 pm
  

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Major Fury wrote:
Taffy said in the post to use the stats as listed in the RDF manual for the EBSIS varients. The new stats he lists are for if the mods were done by RDF/REF techs.


I'm talking about the EBSIS Battaloids, which were always nuclear powered...


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:44 pm
  

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
And have reduced bonuses allready

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:47 pm
  

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Jefffar wrote:
And have reduced bonuses allready


they do?


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:57 pm
  

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Comment: Being a moderator doesn't mean I speak for Palladium Books. It just makes me the lifeguard at their pool.
Read your Southern Cross book, the EBSIS Battloids have lower bonuses than the SC ones.

They are also slow, and have power supply problems to built in energy weapons.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:35 pm
  

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Jefffar wrote:
Read your Southern Cross book, the EBSIS Battloids have lower bonuses than the SC ones.

They are also slow, and have power supply problems to built in energy weapons.


Hmm, ok. I never really noticed a signifigant difference...


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Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:53 pm
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
Hystrix wrote:
Hmm, ok. I never really noticed a signifigant difference...


Let me cover this and all of the of your posts here.

Russians have some advanced technologies, telemental helmets and the voice controls. They have a serious program to make up those differances between what they can do and what the RDF/ASC machines can do. Even still, they lack the combat bonuses and energy weapons of the ASC/RDF.

Soviet machines have lower MDC to weight ratio, slower speeds, and don't have the energy weapons of the RDF counter parts. For example the Soldati Battloid was built along the lines of the Gladiator.

The Soldati was ten to fifteen years newer then the Gladiator. The Soviets had been through the Gladiator, had gained some measure of Robotechnology. Even still the Soldati is packing less then 1/4th the firepower of the Gladiator, is slower, lower damage coding on physical damage, and has few points in terms of combat bonuses and attacks.

I thinking you might have done your original comparison to the ASC Battloids. But those units were hamstrung on purpose to keep them from being too powerful. Same idea as the Bioroids and Zentraedi machines. But even the ASC Battloids are built better, slightly, then the EBSIS machines.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:19 am
  

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You're welcome for the assist, Taffy.

For the record, my idea was simpler and needed less jiggering about, but Taffy's is more realistic.

I simply dropped the H-H abilities of any nuclear-powered mecha to that of a 'basic' trained operator if they had full mecha combat skill, and a basic operator had none. Thus, bonuses were still there, but fewer, and the basic pilot was so overawed by the complexity of the mecha without having protoculture's symbiotic link to assist him that he only could achieve the same standard as if he were not in a mecha at all.

Thus:
AJACS would use the Logan h-h
Hover Tank would also use Logan
Logan would use Veritech Basic
SC battloid would use EBSIS battloid h-h
and so on and so forth.

Agility suffers. Protoculture powered mecha are much more flexible, so leap kicks etc are not possible in a fusion powered mecha. Even a layman watching two identical mecha, one running on fusion, and the other on Flower Power would notice the lack of smooth movement, and definite 'robotic' actions of the former, and the smooth, almost lifelike movements of the latter.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:45 pm
  

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Comment: Time Magazine's person of the year, 2006.
MattBaby: Infidel wrote:
Would you apply this to the fusion turbines used in SC mecha that seem to have the same stats as the protoculture mecha?


Yes.

It mentions that the ASC had resorted to nuclear power for their mecha towards the end of the Second Robotech War. My conversion notes from above would cover those machines spesifically. Infact that was what I had in mind when I started working on this thread.

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Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -Abraham Lincoln
Don't blame me, I voted for Sanders.


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