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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:42 am
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
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Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Proposal: multi-lock targeting systems for firing missiles at multiple targets per x actions/attacks

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Multi-lock missile targeting (late 20th to early 21st century traditional aircraft. 1st robotech to early 2nd robotech war veritechs and destroids)

Must make a weapon systems skill check at a penalty per additional target beyond the first. IE 4 targets is a penalty x3 for three additional targets.

Must fire an equal number of missiles of the same missile type at each target. IE 4 targets would require 4, 8, 12 etc missiles of the same type to be fired.

If the skill check is successful the pilot makes a single attack roll with all applicable strike bonuses to hit all locked targets. All targets use this result for defensive purposes as necessary.

The pilot may still fire on a failed skill check but negates all strike bonuses rolling only an unmodified d20 to strike.

The pilot may choose to forego the attack, forfeiting their attack, as to not use up ammunition.

Limitations on the number of targets and specific penalties will be listed with each specific unit.

This tactic requires 2 actions to perform.

Note – this is something that can be done with current technology (see f-14 example below)

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Pupil recognition multi-lock missile targeting (mid to late 21st century traditional aircraft, chaos earth, rifts, macross, late 2nd robotech war and later veritechs and destroids)(appears as the pupil pistol during the 2nd robotech war)

Must make a weapon systems skill check at no penalty. (Effectively looking at the target correctly in order for the system to tag and lock them)

Must fire an equal number of missiles of the same missile type at each target. IE 4 targets would require 4, 8, 12, etc missiles of the same type to be fired.

If the skill check is successful the pilot makes a single attack roll with all applicable strike bonuses to hit all locked targets. All targets use this result for defensive purposes as necessary.

The pilot may still fire on a failed skill check but negates all strike bonuses rolling only an unmodified d20 to strike.

The pilot may choose to forego the attack, forfeiting their attack, as to not use up ammunition.

Limitations on target numbers will be listed with each specific unit.

This tactic requires a single action to perform.

Note – pupil recognition is how many weapons in rifts etc track and target the enemy to begin with in my opinion.(see f-35 below for a similar real world example)

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Maximum number of missiles allowed to fire in these manners is limited by the weapon system used.

IE if a missile launcher can only fire a maximum of 20 missiles in a volley that is the most you can fire in multi-lock style attacks. Furthermore if you cannot divide that number evenly it may be less. IE if you are firing on 6 targets you are capped at 3 missiles per target and 18 total.

Note – only guided missiles can be used by either system

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Real world examples

F-14 Interceptor

Target, lock, and fire on up to 6 separate targets at once (active radar guided, and infrared homing missiles only)

F-35 joint strike fighter

Helmet mounted display system allows visual recognition target designation.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:57 pm
  

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Supreme Being

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In my games I tend to use the Weapon Systems skill to acheive lock on (and you don't get the bonus from weapon systems and guided missiles without that lock).

I let players simultaneously lock on to a number of targets with each successful roll based on a modifier I derive from their IQ. Up to a maximum number of simultaneous locks equal to what their targeting computer can handle.

Players tend to have the best results locking on to as many targets as they can while closing into weapons range, then spending several consecutive attacks blowing them up, occasionally pausing to acquire a few more when the pool starts to run low.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:40 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
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Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
For the games I've run set in the Macross universe, I've never required a skill check for a VF pilot to use multiple lock-on.

As with so many of a VF's more complex functions, the integrated airframe management and control AI system does all the heavy lifting so the pilot doesn't have to split his/her attention. That AI takes the data from the VF's various sensors and, in cooperation with the Fire Control System, identifies, tags, and tracks all the detectable craft within sensor range and proffers the info to the pilot using the HUD and MSD. Literally all the pilot has to do to lock onto a target is look at it, and the eye-tracking pointing system built into the helmet and cockpit communicates the pilot's focus to the FCS and the control AI to secure a target lock and (if necessary) aim the relevant currently-selected weaponry. All the pilot needs to do is look at several icons to target them sequentially or simultaneously, which doesn't require any particular skill or trait besides owning a head and two functioning eyes. (If they don't, well, that's a bigger problem.)

I did slap a number of restrictions on it, though:
  • Using multiple lock-on can only be used by pilots who are familiar with the targeting system (pilots with MECT).
  • Using multiple lock-on takes a melee action (but since missiles take more than one melee to reach a target it's usually a non-issue)
  • A multiple lock-on attack may use only one weapons system or type of weapon (i.e. only the coaxial laser machinegun or only one type of missile. It can't mix-and-match short, medium, and long-range missiles, mix-and-match missiles with rockets, or missiles with different guidance systems). Networked launchers that function as a single weapons system in practice (e.g. the launchers on the majority of Super or Armored Packs) count as one weapons system and may fire together provided they use the same type of missile.
  • An equal number of missiles must be fired at each target if missiles are being used.
  • Optionally, this same system may be used to address multiple weapons systems onto a single target (e.g. the coaxial lasers, gunpod, and a Strike beam cannon) for a heavy barrage. Guns and missiles may be fired on the same target, and missiles with different guidance types may be used. (My players like to call this "pushing the F-YOU button".)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:20 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
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Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
I included the skill check to have a chance of "failure" of sorts for whatever reason that may be. Typically in palladium that sort of missiles spam gets....over powered fast. That aside I agree on the equal number of missiles on each target and one one type of missiles (which is built in to the rules above)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:22 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
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Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
jaymz wrote:
I included the skill check to have a chance of "failure" of sorts for whatever reason that may be. Typically in palladium that sort of missiles spam gets....over powered fast. That aside I agree on the equal number of missiles on each target and one one type of missiles (which is built in to the rules above)

Yeah... in my games, the power of missile spam is mitigated somewhat by multi-action travel times giving more time to intercept, chaff/flare/decoy countermeasures, ECM, and both active and passive stealth technologies. (Missiles often live up to the "miss" in their name, as the old military joke goes.)

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Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:39 pm
  

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Palladin

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
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Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
Yeah...and even in failure pilots can still fire with rule above. You know me....try to balance the written mess with logical additions lol

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I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree :D

Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:45 am
  

Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:36 pm
Posts: 224
In my campaign we called it targetiing an area. The rules were:

-you fire a volley of missiles (guided or unguided)
-you make an unmodified attack roll (no bonuses or penalties unless there are other factors involved such as smoke screens)
-everyone in the area makes a defensive roll. Whoever fails will likely eat at least one missile.
-the volley gets split by the number of failures, rounding to lowest whole number (no such thing as being .5 or .25 missiles so extra missile hit nothing)
-if more failures than missile in volley then it will go from lowest roll to highest until volley runs out of missile
-if more missile than failures then, after the split, you are hit by 1 missile per point of failure (ie. if you need a 14 to avoid the attack and you roll a 12 then you'll only get hit by 2 missiles no matter how many are in the split volley)

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:51 am
  

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Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
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Location: WI
I've been looking at the rules to see if there is a liberal (creative) interpretation of the existing RAW that might allow this.

By RT-1E/Macross2/Rifts-RMB-era/& similar:
Volleys and Bursts are said to follow the same rules in places, liberally this could be expanded to allow Burst-Spray option to apply to missiles volleys as "Burst" and "Volley" are synonymous given the Mini Missile Special Section (not found in Macross 2 RPG, as Mini's here are guided). Though the GM will have to decide for themselves which Spray rules to use/modify (Automatic/Sub-machineguns OR Machinegun).

RMB cited (similar/C&P entries can be found in RT-1E's Sentinels Main Book or scattered between Bk1 and Bk5)
-pg42 "Strike bonuses are the same as modern weapon proficiency: aimed (firing no more than two missiles, +3), bursts (firing a volley of missiles in any quantity, 3 to 60) and [b[wild[/b]", this is about mini-missiles specifically (not found in Macross 2 RPG)
-pg40 Volley & Bursts section #1 and #2 mention "volley or burst", this seems to equate the two use the same rules (conservatively in just the listed areas, liberally one could interpret this relationship to extend farther)
-pg34 has the rules for Burst/Sprays from automatic/sub-machineguns and Machineguns.

By RT-2E/Rifts-RUE-era/& similar:
This edition/era AFAIK lacks rules to spray an area, which requires a clear house rule (as opposed to house interpretation) or importing spray rules from a book that does have them.

Seto wrote:
the power of missile spam is mitigated somewhat by multi-action travel times giving more time to intercept

Well if one actually looks at the speed of the missile vs distance it has to travel in a RAW game, multi-action travel times are sort of built-in. Though it is possible to have the right speed/range ratio to arrive in the same action it was launched in, but that requires firing well within maximum stated range.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:17 pm
  

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i've not used it myself but i've considered keeping it simple. takes one extra action, and a successful weapon systems check, and you can target as many as you have missiles for. (i'd probably come up with some sort of skill penalty based on the number of targets so that larger numbers of targets make it tougher to set up)

a failed skill check means you resolve the attack using the random missile assault rules from the phase world sourcebook, using every potential target in range. including your own side.

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