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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:19 pm
  

Knight

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I thinking about a crossover game between Robotech and Phase world,any ideas on how to mix Robotech and Phase world?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:46 pm
  

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well, it would depend on which edition you are using, and how you want to do the crossover.

1st edition robotech has some balance issues with the mecha, due to how it is an early MDC setting, while phase world is a later MDC setting where everything is tougher and carries lots of firepower. i would encourage you to seek out the original conversion book 1 and apply the upgrades from there to help sort it out.
2nd edition can be dropped almost as is, the power balance issues are largely smoothed out.

myself i am going to assume the 2nd edition, aka 'Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles RPG", because it is newest and needs the least tweaking and houseruling to make it work. it also has some interesting aspects to its ship designs that will make the whole crossover much more interesting.

as far as crossovers, there are a couple options you have.

1st is the "misfold", where a ship, task force, or fleet (depending on how expansive you want it to get) have a bit of an accident while in hyperspace fold, and wind up in a totally different galaxy. note that this scenario has a couple sub-options.
the first is "do they land in a new universe, or just a different galaxy?" the way the phase world setting is written, you can easily make it clear that they are in a totally different universe (sensors giving odd readings the science types recognize as indicating minutely different physics for example), or you could leave it vague with them assuming they just landed somewhere else in their own universe.
the next variable is "can they get home?", basically, can they examine records of the fold that brought them to the three galaxies, and try to reverse engineer settings that well let them make a reverse trip? i would not recommend doing anything to their fold drive (they need it to get around in the three galaxies after all), but deciding how you want to handle this one is important because it lets you not only set the feel of the campaign, but also lets you decide whether you can or even want to have two-way contact at some point.
the last variable is "where did they land?" you have three galaxies to work with, each with their own politics and potential story arcs. and galaxies are huge, so even within one galaxy you have a lot of potential 'small scale' things they could get involved with. if you want them using their experience to help out 3G's locals, you might consider droppign them into the Free Worlds Council controlled space (or in the transgalactic empire, where they'll be hounded by the TGE forces, and the FWC has to come to their rescue), or in the Anvil Galaxy inside the Golgan republik, where they'd likely end up involved in helping the various succession movements. if you want a more exploration focused one, perhaps drop them into the thundercloud where they can become embroiled in the land rush there.

one non-robotech inspiration i'd suggest for this sort of crossover game would be the recent Battlestar Galactica series. it deals with a lot of themes of being cut off from supplies, in unknown territory, with powerful enemies nearby. it would give you an idea of some of the emotional side effects of being stranded in a strange place.


the other crossover approach would be to basically have them have been there the whole time.. import literally everything as being a part of the three galaxies setting (with earth as one of the many human planets mentioned in DB2, and the masters, zentreadi, and invid as just minor galactic powers). my suggestion there would to be make it part of the thundercloud, since the thundercloud is not only similar to the milky way in layout, it is also one of the least well explored galaxies in the setting. this sort of crossover would require you to do some additional world building (such as deciding what star nations from the thundercloud the invid and masters have encountered, and what kind of relations they have), but it would also allow you to do a much grander storyline in some ways. not to mention you could start it up as a regular robotech game.. up until they encounter that Khreeghor warship, or CCW colony fleet, or the UWW decided to approach the Spherians to offer membership, or whatever major events makes it clear there is a wider reality beyond earth and the masters empire to explore.



this one ended up taking more time than i expected, so further notes to come in a later post.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:18 pm
  

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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:53 pm
  

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ok part 2..

using robotech stuff with phase world. i suggest the use of 2nd edition because power level wise the two are (generally) closer, making it easier to do without lotso f extra houserules and changes. especially since the base ruleset is the same (both using basically the RUE rules with some setting specific skills)

most infantry and mecha scale items can be used as is. Robotech veritechs will generally be a bit slower (mach 2-5 for RT, vs mach 6+ for most phase world fighters) but since robotech veritechs are basically robot vehicles, and get all the MECT bonuses, they will usually have better accuracy and dodge bonuses, so it is not as bad as it looks. firepower wise the Robotech mecha (both veritechs and ground mecha) tend to have similar levels to their phase world counterparts.. often higher, because most human robotech mecha rely on volleys of missiles fairly heavily (phase world fighters and robots tend to be missile light, using either smaller launchers of Mini's, or a handful of very large MRM's or LRM's). Phase world fighters and robots tend to have shields though, which can offset the firepower difference.
(note that alien mecha in robotech, like the zentreadi pods, masters bioroids, and invid are generally fairly fragile and limited in firepower compared to both human mecha and phase world fighters and robots. be careful if using non-human robotech mecha as anything other than an opposition force)

starship wise the two are fairly close over all as well.. robotech ships tend to be a bit more fragile due to the lack of shields, but in terms of firepower the two are often close. the normal weapons are pretty close in terms of damage and range.. phase world has a few longer ranged guns around, and their high damage 'cruise missiles', but they don;t have anything like the Reflex cannons, and phase world ships genealogy don't carry as many fighters as robotech ships do (a 500m Tristar class cruiser carries nearly almost 200 fighters/veritechs.. a phase world ship the same size would usually have maybe 36.)

the big problem robotech ships have in phase world is drive related.
first, the sublight drives are listed different than any other palladium space setting.. in terms of acceleration. to continue my tristar example fro mabove (and to avoid having to dig out more books), a Tristar is listed as being able to attain a maximum speed of 591 mach in 3 days of constant accelleration. which means it is gaining 0.034 mach ever 15 seconds. this is fairly close to typical for robotech ships.
since phase world ships are said to be able to reach about 60% the speed of light in the anvil galaxy sourcebook (about 600,000 mach) it would probably be a good idea to assume that the mach listings for phase world ships are also acceleration over 15 seconds (1 melee). i know several people in the phaseworld section of the forums have worked on house rules based on that concept, so if you want us to share, just ask. but at minimum, we'll just assume the listings are for acceleration, not flat speed, so as to make comparison and use possible.

Contragravity drives allows phase world capital ships to have speeds comparable to robotech fighters. usually mach 4+.
robotech ships use high powered Plasma drives, with around 1/30th of a mach speed, so basically are standing still compared to phase world ships, when it comes to maneuvering. so a robotech ship is going to rely a lot more on its fighters and veritechs for defense in battle.

in terms of interstellar travel though, robotech ships ought to be much faster. while we don't know yet exactly how fast a fold drive is during the fold, a Tristar's fold range is about half the range we see the zentreadi ships having. (a tristar can fold 115 parsecs in one go, a zent flagship can do 180), and we see Breetai's ship conduct a fold in a little over a day. a Tristar could easily do it's range in about the same time (probably less), which means it could cross 375 light years in around 24 hours. about 15.6 lightyears per hour.. nearly three times as fast as the fastest Contragravity drive can do in FTL mode. and it could possibly be even faster.

that said, DB2 phase world (pg152) includes mention that fold drives are less reliable in the three galaxies.. since they do not elaborate exactly how, merely saying "they are likely to fail", i would suggest coming up with some ruling as to how they fail and if the issue can be resolved somehow (my suggestion would be to just roll a D20 each time they fold.. and if they roll a 1 the drive fails to work, and needs time to reset and recharge. how long a time would be the GM's call)



one thing you will want to address if the ship's visit is going to be permanent, is how easily you can refit to use antimatter powerplants and things like contragravity drives. antimatter is a powerplant type that would be reasonable to be more powerful than protoculture, and if mecha are refit with them they could probably also be fitted with shields and contragravitic drives.. which could result in very powerful weapons in the hands of your players. the ships too, could become very potent with such additions, though rebuilding a starship ought to take over a year, given you'd be ripping out better than half of the ship. (powerplant, sublight drives, and fold drives.. as well as most of the hull to fit in the shield generators) (and since fold drives apparently require protoculture, and space is usually limited aboard ship, i doubt you could fit both the relfex furnace and fold drives as well as antimatter powerplant, and CG drives in.)
my suggestion would be to make the conversion difficult.. basically on par to having an all new mecha designed. something that would take years. keep the focus more on the dichotomy in capabilities between the two techbases.. and let the robotech players pick up some phase world technology fighters, shuttles, or even small warships (frigates/destroyers) over time to replace losses.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:30 pm
  

Knight

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Ther some Great ideas.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:22 am
  

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I like the Kittani/Splugorth connection.

- Triolians and Atlanteins both share a similar Greek-like background.
- Kittani bots are not only organic in nature, some actually transform. The concept behind robotech of mixing man and machine into one unit can be stretched to the Kittani tech. Plus Invid mecha are plasma wielding, crab-like bots, again similar to Kittani mecha.
- The artwork of the skyline in Splynn clearly depicts a copy of the SDF-1 in battloid mode.

I ran a few campaigns that always had the True Atlanteans of Rifts and the Triolians as nothing more than two different clans of the same people. The TA clans explored the concept of magic, and the Triloians explored the concept of science. The two factions fractured and they went their own directions in their respective dimensions. Like the Triolians ended up creating the Zentraedi to be their shock troops, the TAs created the Mechanoids, only to have them turn on them, unlike the loyal Zentraedi in the Robotech dimension. Eventually the Splugorth enslaved the TAs and the Kittani (at the time fighting the TA's insane Mechanoids) and they began to explore different dimensions. By this time, the TAs learned their long lost clan had stumbled upon a powerful source of energy (protoculture) after they went back to their native dimension to explore/visit.

In one Robotech game, I had the TAs/Kittani/Splugorth cut a deal with the Invid to provide them with Flowers of Life and in return, transformable mecha and more powerful plasma weapons than the Invid currently had. The characters had to stop the trade or see the future Invid armed with Kittani weaponry. If they stopped the trade, the rift would close and it would be a long time before a Rift that size can be opened to the Robotech dimension again. If they failed, the group would be going up against Invid piloted serpent power armors a few sessions later.

In a Rifts game, Splynn had stolen the blueprints of the SDF-1 and recreated it in his city to deter Mechanoid invasion, capitalizing on its Reflex Cannons.

Also in another Rifts game, the Naruni acquired the plans from a Saber Cyclone and reversed engineered it to create the Sun Chariot.

Of course, all of this can be plopped right down in the Phase World too, since both the Naruni and Splugorth are present there as well.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:26 am
  

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You might want to take a look at the original Rifts conversion book.
It covers improving the MDC of the original Robotech games mecha.

Also you might want to look up Kitsune’s Palladium page. She has some information from mixing Phase World and Rifts Earth with Robotech.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:41 pm
  

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Lord Malachdrim wrote:
You might want to take a look at the original Rifts conversion book.
It covers improving the MDC of the original Robotech games mecha.

if you are using the shadow chronicles game version this is unnecessary.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:48 pm
  

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Hey Glitterboy I have a few questions for you if you don't mind when it comes to crossing RT with other game worlds, if there is a ship blance issue between RT and say Phase world as well as the issue of or RT mechs being a bit on the weak side would taking 1st edition RT ships and using 2nd edition RT mechs help to blance things out a little more.

If I remember rightly the first edition RT Zent and Master's ships had a crapton more MDC then the second edition Zent and Master's ships while the first edition RT mech were much weaker then the second edition RT mechs.


I'm kicking around the idea that the Master find the location of the SDF-1 on earth but due to their failing protoculture supplies as well as the degradation of their ships and mech do to the loss of the Flowers Of Life and the protoculture matrix as well as the lose of many resources with the war with the Regent that their ship(s) make a misfold to either Phase World or Rifts Earth and land on an uninhabited world, some random planet in Phase World or Mars in the Rifts setting and some of their stable FOL brake their containment due to the crash landing, take root and grow into viable FOL that can be harvested for protoculture.

As for the missing protoculture matrix they can get ahold of some Phase World tech and recreate the matrix or in the Rifts setting recreate on their own.

Also what do you think about the Master regaining their Mega-Factory from fist edition RT and bring that in a Phase World/Rifts setting?


At lest that's an idea I have kicking around in my head so I'd like your feed back on this post and thanks in advance for replying if you do.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:12 am
  

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Kargan3033 wrote:
Hey Glitterboy I have a few questions for you if you don't mind when it comes to crossing RT with other game worlds, if there is a ship blance issue between RT and say Phase world as well as the issue of or RT mechs being a bit on the weak side would taking 1st edition RT ships and using 2nd edition RT mechs help to blance things out a little more.

1E RT Ships simply put outclass almost everything in the Phase World Setting IMHO, the only thing that might give them a run for their money is something like a Dominator Star Fortress. 1E RT ships simply put out range PW ships for the most part (DSF being the one exception). And if you consider the ships w/BFGs of the "destroy everything in its path", PW ships really would be hurting.

2E Mecha are already more balanced for the Rifts/PW setting in reality.

Kargan3033 wrote:
As for the missing protoculture matrix they can get ahold of some Phase World tech and recreate the matrix or in the Rifts setting recreate on their own.

Huh? If these are supposed to be the Masters from the show, then they have their attempts to clone Zor. When the Masters set out they had several clones they could gernate in that time (per dialogue), no reason all those attempts had to stay on one ship (so it doesn't have to be the series Masters who misfold).

Kargan3033 wrote:
Also what do you think about the Master regaining their Mega-Factory from fist edition RT and bring that in a Phase World/Rifts setting?

Have you seen the production numbers those factory satellites had in 1E (for the G-95 in Bk6 RotMr)? I don't think we have any production rates in Rifts/PW for most items, but it would likely be unbalancing from a production standpoint. Rifts Earth/orbitals would fall quickly (most of Rifts Earth I suspect couldn't match it), Phaseworld it might be less of an impact to the setting as a whole and some of the major players.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:54 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
Kargan3033 wrote:
As for the missing protoculture matrix they can get ahold of some Phase World tech and recreate the matrix or in the Rifts setting recreate on their own.

Huh? If these are supposed to be the Masters from the show, then they have their attempts to clone Zor. When the Masters set out they had several clones they could gernate in that time (per dialogue), no reason all those attempts had to stay on one ship (so it doesn't have to be the series Masters who misfold).

the big issue with them recreating the matrix in a phase world setting is that while they had clones of Zor*, they lacked the protoculture supply needed to build one. their ships were basically sucking fumes on their way to earth, which was why they were so desperate to get into the three mounds and at the ruins of the SDF-1/the matrix. which got worse when the last supplies of protoculture they had was contaminated wth Flower of Life and consumed by those plants. while the Matrix is a protoculture factory, it would need a supply of protoculture or flower of life to start with, it wouldn't be able to make it from nothing. in phase world they'd be stuck, since they'd not have any flower of life to make more protoculture with.




*they had multiple Zor clones.. but per dialog, the copies of the original Zor's memories were in such bad shape that they only had the one shot left to transfer them to a clone. as a result, they'd have had 1 zor clone with the full memories of the original (which, as you recall, didn't manifest right away in Zor Prime), and however many other clones of Zor that would have only new memories made since their cloning.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:22 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
1E RT Ships simply put outclass almost everything in the Phase World Setting IMHO, the only thing that might give them a run for their money is something like a Dominator Star Fortress. 1E RT ships simply put out range PW ships for the most part (DSF being the one exception). And if you consider the ships w/BFGs of the "destroy everything in its path", PW ships really would be hurting.


Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, had trouble hooking to the net.

That's what I thought, however using 1st ed ships would be a good way to make the Masters and the Zents a major threat for the power blocks in PW to unite to stand against the Master and or Zents especially if you Master mange to not only regain a supply of protoculte but production factories as well as resources to rebuilt their shattered empire.

Quote:
2E Mecha are already more balanced for the Rifts/PW setting in reality.


That's what I thought

Quote:
Huh? If these are supposed to be the Masters from the show, then they have their attempts to clone Zor. When the Masters set out they had several clones they could gernate in that time (per dialogue), no reason all those attempts had to stay on one ship (so it doesn't have to be the series Masters who misfold).


That's true but from what I understand about the Masters in RT that it was the Elder Masters who set off to earth with the Zor clones and from what I know of the Masters the Elders would never allow another group of Masters to clone Zor because of a possible threat of those Master's going rouge and replacing them as the Leaders of what is left of the Master's empire.


Quote:
Have you seen the production numbers those factory satellites had in 1E (for the G-95 in Bk6 RotMr)? I don't think we have any production rates in Rifts/PW for most items, but it would likely be unbalancing from a production standpoint. Rifts Earth/orbitals would fall quickly (most of Rifts Earth I suspect couldn't match it), Phaseworld it might be less of an impact to the setting as a whole and some of the major players.


Good point like I said before using 1st edit RT ships would make the Master and or Zents a major threat to the stability of PW as for Rifts earth I think that magic would help to blunt the Masters/Zent's attack or earth and give the major power blocks time to build up their forces if they worked together.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:28 pm
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
The big issue with them recreating the matrix in a phase world setting is that while they had clones of Zor*, they lacked the protoculture supply needed to build one. their ships were basically sucking fumes on their way to earth, which was why they were so desperate to get into the three mounds and at the ruins of the SDF-1/the matrix. which got worse when the last supplies of protoculture they had was contaminated wth Flower of Life and consumed by those plants. while the Matrix is a protoculture factory, it would need a supply of protoculture or flower of life to start with, it wouldn't be able to make it from nothing. in phase world they'd be stuck, since they'd not have any flower of life to make more protoculture with.


That is true but for the sake of a crossover game I would say that the Masters had some seed of the FOL and found a stable world in which to grow the FOL without it mutating into a useless strain of FOL and that they managed to recreate the matrix either by using PW tech or being successful in their cloning of Zor.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:23 am
  

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Knight

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
the big issue with them recreating the matrix in a phase world setting is that while they had clones of Zor*, they lacked the protoculture supply needed to build one. their ships were basically sucking fumes on their way to earth, which was why they were so desperate to get into the three mounds and at the ruins of the SDF-1/the matrix. which got worse when the last supplies of protoculture they had was contaminated wth Flower of Life and consumed by those plants. while the Matrix is a protoculture factory, it would need a supply of protoculture or flower of life to start with, it wouldn't be able to make it from nothing. in phase world they'd be stuck, since they'd not have any flower of life to make more protoculture with.

I don't think they need a PC supply to build a new Matrix/Factory, what they needed was a Matrix/Factory AND the Flowers of Life that are processed into Protoculture. It seems to be implied in the animation that PC has a shelf-life before degrading/progressing into the Flower of Life, so Earth must have had "fresher" supplies than the Masters and what ever was in the Mounds since they did not encounter the issue (out in deep space who knows, but at Earth no).


glitterboy2098 wrote:
*they had multiple Zor clones.. but per dialog, the copies of the original Zor's memories were in such bad shape that they only had the one shot left to transfer them to a clone. as a result, they'd have had 1 zor clone with the full memories of the original (which, as you recall, didn't manifest right away in Zor Prime), and however many other clones of Zor that would have only new memories made since their cloning.

When is this established that they only had one chance?

Kargan3033 wrote:
That's true but from what I understand about the Masters in RT that it was the Elder Masters who set off to earth with the Zor clones and from what I know of the Masters the Elders would never allow another group of Masters to clone Zor because of a possible threat of those Master's going rouge and replacing them as the Leaders of what is left of the Master's empire.

The Masters that "managed" the situation at Earth in the TV arc though DO HAVE superiors (we see them in Ep37, though they get very sparesly used later). So right there you have evidence going against your thinking.

Kargan3033 wrote:
Good point like I said before using 1st edit RT ships would make the Master and or Zents a major threat to the stability of PW as for Rifts earth I think that magic would help to blunt the Masters/Zent's attack or earth and give the major power blocks time to build up their forces if they worked together.

There are a few blocks on Rifts-Earth that could potentially hold out, Splugorth, maybe the Vernulians, Amaki, and Naut'yll (the last 3 still have connections to the homeworld, and the Amaki are stated to be able to call in reinformcements). The Megaversal Legion and Arkhons might also be potential holdups.

Magic is a game changer, but might not be of as much help. Remember if the Zent/Masters have their starships, those starships are capable of orbital bombardment that no one on Rifts Earth has a defense against (well those underwater/deep underground might hold out longer) or could even retaliate (maybe Atlantis and the Nazcans, but I wouldn't hold by breath).


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Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:05 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
*they had multiple Zor clones.. but per dialog, the copies of the original Zor's memories were in such bad shape that they only had the one shot left to transfer them to a clone. as a result, they'd have had 1 zor clone with the full memories of the original (which, as you recall, didn't manifest right away in Zor Prime), and however many other clones of Zor that would have only new memories made since their cloning.

When is this established that they only had one chance?

Episode 30, "Viva Miriya"
they start the process that will create Zor Prime.. and their dialog before they start indicates that the material they are working with has degraded to the point they'll only have one more try.

since we see multiple clones i interpret that as being that the memories they are attempting to implant in the clones have degraded in whatever storage system they use for that, and they only have one more shot at a transfer before the stored memories become unusable.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:42 am
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
ShadowLogan wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:
*they had multiple Zor clones.. but per dialog, the copies of the original Zor's memories were in such bad shape that they only had the one shot left to transfer them to a clone. as a result, they'd have had 1 zor clone with the full memories of the original (which, as you recall, didn't manifest right away in Zor Prime), and however many other clones of Zor that would have only new memories made since their cloning.

When is this established that they only had one chance?

Episode 30, "Viva Miriya"
they start the process that will create Zor Prime.. and their dialog before they start indicates that the material they are working with has degraded to the point they'll only have one more try.

since we see multiple clones i interpret that as being that the memories they are attempting to implant in the clones have degraded in whatever storage system they use for that, and they only have one more shot at a transfer before the stored memories become unusable.

There is no such line in Ep30. I have transcripts for that episode scene. They do mention they are down to minimum suspension material and they can't waste it, they also mention they have been trying to clone Zor in an atypical manner since they ignore some things and admit as much.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:26 pm
  

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ShadowLogan wrote:
The Masters that "managed" the situation at Earth in the TV arc though DO HAVE superiors (we see them in Ep37, though they get very sparesly used later). So right there you have evidence going against your thinking.


Really, it's been a few years since I last watch the RT anime I'll have to check that out.

Quote:
There are a few blocks on Rifts-Earth that could potentially hold out, Splugorth, maybe the Vernulians, Amaki, and Naut'yll (the last 3 still have connections to the homeworld, and the Amaki are stated to be able to call in reinformcements). The Megaversal Legion and Arkhons might also be potential holdups.

Magic is a game changer, but might not be of as much help. Remember if the Zent/Masters have their starships, those starships are capable of orbital bombardment that no one on Rifts Earth has a defense against (well those underwater/deep underground might hold out longer) or could even retaliate (maybe Atlantis and the Nazcans, but I wouldn't hold by breath).


Good point but still it would be an interesting situation of the Masters did show up on rift's earth with a few of their mother ships and a steady supply of protoculture and a working matrix.

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