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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:46 am
  

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Howdy all,

I'm just curious as to anybody's experience w/ Macross char's in a Rift's/Rift's earth type of setting ??

I've got a 9th level Valkyrie/Test pilot running thru a anti-CS coalition wars campaign at the moment and was/is looking to compare notes. He's rakking up a decent scoreboard for the Tolkeen efforts. And having a ton of fun doin' it :twisted: :wink: :!: :!:


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:19 am
  

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Back in the first edition days, I had a campaign in which an Ikazuchi Carrier "dropped off" on Rifts Earth (carried there when the Regis first left Earth). It was stranded on the surface so they did their best to camouflage it. They then (inspired by Lancers Rockers) had a musical group tour around using Minmei songs to recruit other characters from their Robotech dimension. The last mission before I had to move was an attempt to steal back some mecha that the Coalition had found from a Rift and were trying to reverse engineer. Of particular interest was the laser resistant ceramalloy armor.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:57 pm
  

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with the 2nd edition/Shadow Chronicles RPG rules, you can pretty much drop the characters right in with little conversion.

the main concerns are:
Fuel - 1st and 2nd generation human mecha use metallic hydrogen (SLMH) as fuel for fusion powerplants. 3rd gen human and Alien mecha use protoculture. both fuels are exotic materials requiring unique production methods not found in rifts. (SLMH requiring artificial high pressure environments to be made from regular hydrogen, protoculture requiring the processing of the Flower of Life.) without a supply of SLMH or protoculture mecha will last only a few weeks (SLMH) to a few months (protoculture) before becoming useless. and if you do have a supply, characters will eventually need to ration it to make it last as long as possible. either way, when fuel starts running out, they will likely need to switch over to rifts built mecha and weapons.

Repair. - Robotech mecha would likely count as "unfamiliar technology" to rifts Operators and Engineers, and thus suffer a penalty to their engineering skills. Robotech master's mecha (Their bioroids, and the hybrid Bioroid interceptor) would likely count as "alien technology" and suffer even worse.

Modifications - can you graft Rifts weapons onto robotech mecha? convert the robotech missile launchers to fire rifts made missiles? can you use rifts compact nuclear powerplants to replace SLMH fusion or protoculture?

Munitions - while the two settings share a common missile chart, the different technology histories mean that the shared performance is just a quirk of RPG writing. a GM needs to decide if a robotech mecha can use rifts technology base missiles, and the degree of adaptors/conversion requires, if any. this also goes for other munitions. can robotech SLAP rounds still do their robotech damage in rifts, where comparable special ammo is still only SDC? can rifts factories produce robotech cannon, artillery, and mortar shells (and are there existing stocks of compable munitions in rifts already)? can robotech flamethrowers load Napalm-P fuel? etc.

Piloting. - how difficult is it for rifts characters to pilot robotech mecha, and robotech characters to pilot rifts mecha? they each have their own sets of piloting skills and robot/mecha combat skills (with the later actually using two rather different approaches) so you need to decide if the skills alloe at least the piloting of the other's machines. (and if so, whether a rifts robot and PA piloting skill would cover Veritechs.)

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:06 pm
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
with the 2nd edition/Shadow Chronicles RPG rules, you can pretty much drop the characters right in with little conversion.

the main concerns are:
Fuel - 1st and 2nd generation human mecha use metallic hydrogen (SLMH) as fuel for fusion powerplants. 3rd gen human and Alien mecha use protoculture. both fuels are exotic materials requiring unique production methods not found in rifts. (SLMH requiring artificial high pressure environments to be made from regular hydrogen, protoculture requiring the processing of the Flower of Life.) without a supply of SLMH or protoculture mecha will last only a few weeks (SLMH) to a few months (protoculture) before becoming useless. and if you do have a supply, characters will eventually need to ration it to make it last as long as possible. either way, when fuel starts running out, they will likely need to switch over to rifts built mecha and weapons.

Repair. - Robotech mecha would likely count as "unfamiliar technology" to rifts Operators and Engineers, and thus suffer a penalty to their engineering skills. Robotech master's mecha (Their bioroids, and the hybrid Bioroid interceptor) would likely count as "alien technology" and suffer even worse.

Modifications - can you graft Rifts weapons onto robotech mecha? convert the robotech missile launchers to fire rifts made missiles? can you use rifts compact nuclear powerplants to replace SLMH fusion or protoculture?

Munitions - while the two settings share a common missile chart, the different technology histories mean that the shared performance is just a quirk of RPG writing. a GM needs to decide if a robotech mecha can use rifts technology base missiles, and the degree of adaptors/conversion requires, if any. this also goes for other munitions. can robotech SLAP rounds still do their robotech damage in rifts, where comparable special ammo is still only SDC? can rifts factories produce robotech cannon, artillery, and mortar shells (and are there existing stocks of compable munitions in rifts already)? can robotech flamethrowers load Napalm-P fuel? etc.

Piloting. - how difficult is it for rifts characters to pilot robotech mecha, and robotech characters to pilot rifts mecha? they each have their own sets of piloting skills and robot/mecha combat skills (with the later actually using two rather different approaches) so you need to decide if the skills alloe at least the piloting of the other's machines. (and if so, whether a rifts robot and PA piloting skill would cover Veritechs.)

I kinda think that the Robotech Destoroid pilots would have the easiest time.The destroids are the closest to rifts mecha.The VT pilots should be able to handle most SAMAS and most flying mecha just with out major bonus to piloting rolls

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Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:35 am
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
Modifications - can you graft Rifts weapons onto robotech mecha? convert the robotech missile launchers to fire rifts made missiles? can you use rifts compact nuclear powerplants to replace SLMH fusion or protoculture?

#1 and #2. Yes, in the long run there shouldn't be a problem with adapting more common technology found on Rifts Earth into Robotech mecha. That doesn't mean it will be easy, missile launchers likely will need some software adjustments (as in the realworl), maybe even some physical hardware changes (either to the launcher and/Aor missile), to be cleared to use the foreign missiles. Weapon systems in general should be okay, though issues of size might be a factor depending on the specific RT design.

#3. Nuclear power plants. That I think would be a lot tougher to pull off when you consider that Rifts Earth seems to have the default set to Nuclear Fission (IMHO), but the RT hardware is using Nuclear Fusion (SLMH) or better (PC) level in most cases (ASC PA suits using fuelcell). So finding a reactor that will provide similar power levels is probably going to be expensive (and difficult at the same size) unless one is willing to take a hit in performance.

glitterboy2098 wrote:
this also goes for other munitions. can robotech SLAP rounds still do their robotech damage in rifts, where comparable special ammo is still only SDC? can rifts factories produce robotech cannon, artillery, and mortar shells (and are there existing stocks of compable munitions in rifts already)? can robotech flamethrowers load Napalm-P fuel? etc.

2E RT's SLAP/HEAP rounds should work just fine in Rifts, it should just come down to the materials involved. We know different types of explosives have different yeilds in game for the same unit (ex Mercenaries Dynamite and Plasitique, plus DB3's K-Hex, etc), it just means the RT stuff is using a different (and relatively exotic) material.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:08 am
  

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Deathknight69 wrote:
Howdy all,

I'm just curious as to anybody's experience w/ Macross char's in a Rift's/Rift's earth type of setting ??

I've got a 9th level Valkyrie/Test pilot running thru a anti-CS coalition wars campaign at the moment and was/is looking to compare notes. He's rakking up a decent scoreboard for the Tolkeen efforts. And having a ton of fun doin' it :twisted: :wink: :!: :!:


I'm currently GMing a Zentradi Campaign using a hybird of the Macross II (2) and Robotech rules and I have played (but not GMed) the Rifts setting in the past. Most responses seem to have thought you are running in a Robotech/Rifts crossover. Since you said "Macross" and Valkryie not Veritech are you using the Macross II (2) mech and rules instead?

If my assumption is correct and you are looking for tips for Macross II (2) crossover rather than Robotech - here are some of my thoughts:

1) Morality - Your Valkryie pilot has chosen sides with Tolkeen; not surprising considering the Coalition's policy on D-Bees. But consider as someone who "looks" normal (unless part Zentradi) they could pass for an Rifts Earth native. The Macross II (2) government and U.N. Spacy are really quite controlling. Although not as aggressive and genocidal as the Coalition, there are issues of "personal freedom" vs. the good of the state" shown in the Macross and Robotech anime. A Coalition Officer with some good propaganda material and a smooth voice might be able to fool Macross origin characters long enough to get them into a tight spot (i.e. out of their Macross mecha to "talk").

2) Mecha - There is a special Mechanical skill associated with Robotech Veritechs but the Macross II (2) setting treats it as just another mecha that needs Robot Mechanical.
a) Does the Valkryie pilot have Robot Mechanics themselves? Then they know all the tricks to keeping their mecha running. If not do they have friends/crew from Macross that made the trip to Rifts Earth with them? If not....
b) Eventually there may be an issue of "replacement parts"
i) Beam weapons/E-clips could be recharged with a little Electrical expertise. Weapons hooked into the mecha with Unlimited payload will not be a problem.
ii) Armor gets damaged and must be replaced. While it won't be exactly what the RDF or UN Spacey use on their machines it should be "good enough" to protect the mecha.
iii) Ammunition for railguns and missiles would be impossible to replenish. After it runs out of ammo, where does the pilot get replacements if nobody in Tolkeen makes it and you can't steal it from the Coalition? It's easier to find a new Rifts mecha weapons with plenty of ammo then find someone in the Rifts World willing and capable to manufacturing custom munitions for the Macross mecha.
iv) Entirely destroyed limbs on the mecha would be a major problem since there are no factories setup to make replacements. The character either has to find another Valkryie to canabalize or have new parts made custom, which would be VERY expensive and take a LOT of time.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:23 pm
  

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The first edition Rifts Conversion Book covered a good amount of this ground of the 1st Edition Robotech RPG (power system conversion, weapon ordnance/systems, etc.). Granted a number of things have changed in Robotech 2nd edition. 1st edition was governed by a Protoculture requirement for fundamental operation of Robotech mecha, 2nd edition grants license to alternative power systems. As with al things Palladium, it's GM prerogative, and I love that. In regards to Rifts, I look at the Flying Titan Power Armor, and compare that to the VR-030 cyclone, and I have to think that with enough money and know how, a power system from a the Flying Titan could easily power a cyclone. That tiny nuclear generator can power the Titan for 20 years, and the performance profile of the Titan exceeds the the VR-30 in a number of areas. To my thinking, clearly the compact reactors used in Rifts, or the systems they run in are entirely more efficient than what was developed in the Robotech universe.

Before this thread dives into a technical "two camps", haHA!, is this the kind of "notes" you were looking for Deathknight69, or were you thinking more character experiences?

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:20 pm
  

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Thanx for the assist guys. Still looking for more MACROSS related info and experiences.

@Tobefrnk: I've read everything I have personally: Book's, Pdf's, etc...,

The reason for all these inquiry's is this -> I've been dusting off char's and stuff from an old campaign I played in and eventually took over the GM duties thereof a while back and am toy-ing around with the idea of putting together a mini-campaign that a friend & I will take turns running each other thru some Rifts adventures.

I still have 3 - 5 more char's to refurbish.

Also, Just to be clear -> There are a couple of special things to some of these char's that are not standard. Hence some of the questions as of late.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:01 am
  

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Deathknight69 wrote:
Howdy all,

I'm just curious as to anybody's experience w/ Macross char's in a Rift's/Rift's earth type of setting ??

I've never used RIFTS to do it, but I've had a few games where Macross stuff was ported over to other settings and they went reasonably well...

I'm assuming that, since you said "Macross" rather than "Robotech" you're using the Macross II RPG or a main continuity Macross setup based on it for my thoughts below. Since you said you're running a pilot, I'll also roll with the assumption you're using the UN Spacy Valkyrie Fighter Pilot OCC from page 93 of the Macross II core book.



Deathknight69 wrote:
I've got a 9th level Valkyrie/Test pilot running thru a anti-CS coalition wars campaign at the moment and was/is looking to compare notes. He's rakking up a decent scoreboard for the Tolkeen efforts. And having a ton of fun doin' it :twisted: :wink: :!: :!:

Stats conversions aside, which I can't offer any guidance on since it's been a dog's age since I've even seen a RIFTS book, the big concerns would be:

1. I'd have to concur with glitterboy2098's point about repairs... overtechnology, and especially overtechnology made by humans, should be handled as "alien or extremely unfamiliar" to the Tolkeen and incur the appropriate level of penalty. Justifiable, IMO, since a good percentage of the technology in almost every VF in Macross is quite literally alien, and the Macross II VFs have even more of it than is typical. (IIRC -40% for electronics, -30% for mechanical)

Human overtechnology in the Macross II continuity (and, really, Macross in general) is unconventional... as it's a mixture of the Zentradi's pseudo-organic overtechnology, the Meltrandi's entirely inorganic overtechnology, and original developments humanity has come up with by reverse engineeringm analyzing, and combining the two. The Protoculture would probably find humanity's overtechnology quite odd, the Tolkeen should probably find it bizarre... especially considering some of it isn't operating on conventional physics. They'd probably be able to procure repair parts for basic stuff like the armor or particle beam weaponry with a little adaptation, but something along the lines of the fold reactors in the core of each engine (which operate on super dimension physics) would be very difficult or impossible to replace due to the exotic materials used. I doubt you could adapt a fission plant to a VF, given that the energy requirements for a VF are colossal (the VF-2SS's reactors have a nominal operating output of 3.9 gigawatts, and a peak of potentially as much as 10.2 gigawatts).

(Fuel should be a non-issue, though... the fold reactors in the engines use hydrogen slush as fuel, and that should be easy to make, as it can be produced in industrial quantities using even 1970s-era technology.)

2. Bombs and missiles, I would expect would be only a minor issue. They'd need some adjustments to interface properly with a VF's launcher systems, but a VF is set up to operate practically any form of guidance system, and that's probably going to work in their favor for adapting local weapons. The big problem is going to be if they're forced to operate a mecha-scale gun that the fighter wasn't designed for, since it won't have the control interface that the Valkyrie is expecting and aim would suffer accordingly without the predictive algorithms being calibrated for the new weapon and without an on-gun targeting system to supplement the targeting systems inside the VF. (At worst, if the VF tries to send power through the hand connector to a weapon that isn't set up for that, it could ruin the gun by pumping high-voltage electricity into it.)

3. Alignment and morals would be kind of an issue... the UN Government and UN Forces are very much a part of the "let's all hold hands and sing rainbow connection" happy-clappy set, and would probably find EVERY faction on Rifts Earth abhorrent. That kind of grimdark world of intolerance would be a huge "does not compute" moment for them, since they would have grown up in an environment that stresses tolerance and acceptance given a substantial alien population, commonplace alien-human interbreeding, and military policy that stresses minimum violence and a goal of peacefully integrating hostiles into human society. It's quite likely they'd consider every faction on Rifts Earth to be evil or at least amoral.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:53 am
  

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Hey guys:

Are some of y'all talkin' about somethin' like this below ????

EDIT: Quoting large sections of text from Palladium books is not permitted under forum rules. If you need more than a sentence or so provide a page reference.


This mega-paragraph also can be / is true regarding the Macross II™ RPG setting. It makes sense.

If so, Just know that we've taken care of all of that stuff in play already. I've personaly dispatched a few r.l'. in my day. :-P :twisted: :wink:

I'm looking more into the rp'ing aspects of a fun campaign :wink:. Don't get me wrong or crossed up, Just understand where I'm coming from. Rules Lawyers get chewed up real fast around me as I make it a habit to dis-mantle, -member, destroy them at the 1st opportunity.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:57 am
  

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Deathknight69 wrote:
Thanx for the assist guys. Still looking for more MACROSS related info and experiences.

@Tobefrnk: I've read everything I have personally: Book's, Pdf's, etc...,

The reason for all these inquiry's is this -> I've been dusting off char's and stuff from an old campaign I played in and eventually took over the GM duties thereof a while back and am toy-ing around with the idea of putting together a mini-campaign that a friend & I will take turns running each other thru some Rifts adventures.

I still have 3 - 5 more char's to refurbish.

Also, Just to be clear -> There are a couple of special things to some of these char's that are not standard. Hence some of the questions as of late.


Okay, now I'm clear. Music plays a massive role in Macross. Every series was heavily influenced by music, and the societal culture grew to view music not as a trivial form of entertainment, but something powerful. A tool for both good and destruction. Weaponized songs are an expected element. I would think any Macross crossover with Rifts would be remiss to not have this trope. So, maybe make a few characters musicians. Maybe they are on a quest for a Musician of note on Rifts Earth? Maybe they hope to be a musical force that can solve the problems of Rifts Earth? Maybe home stat a "musical psionic" or "music magic". Can musical, harmonic vibrations influence Rifts? That's the direction I'd take.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:44 am
  

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Umm, I actually wasn't even thinking about any type of music. I'm thinking more about encounters / stuff that's been encountered. O.C.C.'s that are a good fit, Theatre's of operation / Lands of adventure - Lone Star, Tolkeen, England, etc.

In a m.d.c. nutshell -> Paint me a picture of what has been experienced by yourself / others . . .


Also, Since a ptb edited my reply from 2 posts above, the book referenced is Conversion Book 1; Pgs 34 - 36.

Start here: Conversions for Characters from High-Tech Worlds; Mechanoids®, Robotech™ & Macross™ for reference protocols.


Last edited by Deathknight69 on Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:54 am
  

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When I played Rifts my characters were almost exclusively Robotech or Macross II chars (we dropped a ship from each onto Rifts Earth in Hudson's Bay and off Bafin Island respectively) because I prefered the mechs.

I found that the Robotech (after the MDC boost in the 1st ed. Conversion Guide) and the Macross II mechs (no additions necessary) had about the same life expectancy as the Rift gear. Mind you, my group lost three Glitterboys and saw a Cosmo-Knight killed in his first fight (funnily enough he was the only one killed in that fight)

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:34 pm
  

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Camk4evr: When you say "A Ship" ? What exactly (Ship-wise) did your group drop into the campaign?? We might be on the same wavelength so-to-speak.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:16 pm
  

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Deathknight69 wrote:
Umm, I actually wasn't even thinking about any type of music. I'm thinking more about encounters / stuff that's been encountered. O.C.C.'s that are a good fit, Theatre's of operation / Lands of adventure - Lone Star, Tolkeen, England, etc.

In a m.d.c. nutshell -> Paint me a picture of what has been experienced by yourself / others . . .

Well... the standard, almost to the extent of being stereotypical, approaches to story hooks to bring Macross II or Robotech stuff into Rifts (or another Megaversal game) are:
  • The detonation of a setting-specific "Earth-shattering kaboom"-level superweapon like a thermonuclear reaction warhead (Macross II), dimensional warhead (Macross F/Δ) or neutron-s warhead (Robotech) messes up space-time somehow and opens a rift. (Usually this rift somehow imperils the entirety of that alternate Earth, in which the protagonists chase a macguffin or five to try and avoid accidentally committing multiple genocide.)
  • A space fold accident causes a ship to emerge into the universe of Rifts Earth instead of its home universe, which usually damages or destroys the fold system. It's the usual "let's nick what we need to get home" plot.
  • A third, less commonly used option involves one faction discovering a way to open temporary rifts into the Earth of Robotech or Macross and are either invaded by the invader du jour (Robotech) or attempt to steal highly advanced technology from the UN Government to use against their enemies, which the player characters then have to go get back.


There was one that a friend of mine ran, which I wasn't a player in... but I was involved in helping plan and provided the updated/corrected Macross II rules and stats for. His plot spun off the ending of the movie Macross: Do You Remember Love?. When Commander Boddole Zer was killed by Hikaru, the loss of its biological computer caused the mobile fortress's systems to fail... including causing its fold system clusters to randomly teleport parts from the ship into super dimension space, which is why the ship looks like it's decaying at the end of the film. That became the game's starting point, with city-sized chunks of that wrecked mobile fortress dropping back into reality across Rifts Earth causing all kinds of natural disasters and bearing a cargo of understandably PO'd Zentradi Army soldiers who intended to finish what they'd started back in the Macross universe by wiping out all life on Earth. There was some politicking involving factions thinking other factions were trying to obtain Zentradi technology as a way of achieving a tactical advantage, and culminated with an attempt to stop the Zentradi from excavating a large battleship that was still in working order (which they would then use to destroy Earth).

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:49 am
  

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Deathknight69 wrote:
Camk4evr: When you say "A Ship" ? What exactly (Ship-wise) did your group drop into the campaign?? We might be on the same wavelength so-to-speak.


It's been awhile (mid 90s) and I didn't keep the notes or character sheets but I believe that both ships were lost, armed, colony ships and their mecha complements (post Invid Invasion in Robotech's case).

The Robotech ship I really don't remember much about and I don't believe it was fully fleshed out at all. The Macross II ship was a Nupetiet-Vergnitz hull very heavily modified so that it could be crewed entirely by miconized people (total number of military and civillian personel personel was a bit less than that of the Macross) with entire decks dedicated to storage (food, materials, munitions etc), hydroponics farms, and mini-factories. Both groups had their populations supplemented by (not always human) Rifts Earth locals

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