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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:42 pm
  

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Knight

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In Ep84 Lunk driving his jeep declares to an Invid Trooper to "Eat Laser", but fires off some missiles instead.

This has me wondering if Robotech, at least for NG/TSC era, has developed disposable lasers that are mounted to missiles? Well the Palladium Megaverse does offer two solutions actually that could be dropped in with ready made stats:
A. Macross 2 RPG line's (RAW) Energy Missile on the Marduk Annihilator (M2's SB pg54 Weapon system #1)
B. Rifts RPG World Book 14 (New West pg209) Wilk's Beehive Laser Grenade being mounted on a mini-missile (and if one is looking for another missile option the variant Blinder grenade also works for riot control and on optical sensors, which might push it back into to TRM or TMS eras).

I'm also considering making the warhead available to Short missile types, being x2 as powerful as the mini-missile version (as that seems to be the ratio between SRM and Mini). I'm not sure about putting them onto a Medium or Long Range missile.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:51 pm
  

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Non-nuclear bomb pumped laser warheads,

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:21 pm
  

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Knight

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ShadowLogan wrote:
In Ep84 Lunk driving his jeep declares to an Invid Trooper to "Eat Laser", but fires off some missiles instead.

This has me wondering if Robotech, at least for NG/TSC era, has developed disposable lasers that are mounted to missiles?

Given that the Earth Forces in the Robotech setting had already been using laser small arms for something like 20 years in 2042, it doesn't seem beyond reason that they could have missiles which could mount a small laser gun instead of an explosive warhead.

The Alpha seems an unlikely candidate for such a system, though, since its armaments are exclusively short-ranged and the missiles themselves are VERY small... barely the size of a small office dustbin, and most of that is rocket motor. I'd make it an option on a larger missile that could carry a more powerful laser, like a medium-range missile for the Beta's wing pylons. Something that could pursue an enemy, since if you're within a kilometer of them why not just use the gunpod or coaxial lasers?



ShadowLogan wrote:
Well the Palladium Megaverse does offer two solutions actually that could be dropped in with ready made stats:
A. Macross 2 RPG line's (RAW) Energy Missile on the Marduk Annihilator (M2's SB pg54 Weapon system #1)

The idea for a missile with a disposable cannon in lieu of a traditional warhead is pretty well-precedented in both of Macross's official continuities... which is, admittedly, the result of inter-franchise exchanges of personnel between Big West's Macross and Bandai/Sunrise's Gundam. (The initial exchange may have come from Mobile Suit Gundam: Hathaway's Flash.)

The VF-4S Siren in Macross II's prequel Macross: Eternal Love Song was equipped with disposable beam cannon-equipped missiles that it insisted on calling funnels, even though they were computer-controlled rather than using psycommu. The Mardook variable weapon had straight-up funnel missiles in a model very similar to the Xi Gundam's in Hathaway's Flash, except, again, without psycommu.

The 4th Generation and later VFs in Macross's main continuity (starting with the YF-19/YF-21) had multiple types of missile with a "gun warhead"... one fitted with a high-output miniature laser turret (so the missile could aim off-axis), and one outfitted with a one-use collection of smallbore railguns that would fire a shotgun-like blast of armor-piercing slugs at close range.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:07 am
  

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Palladin

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Just bad editing, he meant missiles.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:06 am
  

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Nightmask wrote:
Just bad editing, he meant missiles.

That really isn't an option since it isn't the result of editing (it could have been edited out), but rather actor/writer error. This is one of those cases where the dialogue gives us options, but isn't necessarily consistent with the animation (not unheard of in RT, but if reasonable explanations can be done for explanation why ignore it). I suppose the missiles could have been laser guided, but this gives us other options to expand the TO&E in RT a bit more.

Seto wrote:
The Alpha seems an unlikely candidate for such a system, though, since its armaments are exclusively short-ranged and the missiles themselves are VERY small... barely the size of a small office dustbin, and most of that is rocket motor. I'd make it an option on a larger missile that could carry a more powerful laser, like a medium-range missile for the Beta's wing pylons. Something that could pursue an enemy, since if you're within a kilometer of them why not just use the gunpod or coaxial lasers?

Well if Lunk's Jeep IS treated as firing laser equipped missiles, then the Alpha's (and others) should be useable to.

Within the context of the RPG universe we know:
-the weapon system Lunk's jeep was using fired 60mm mini-missiles (NG SB pg58)
-the Alpha has 78mm Mini-Missiles and 190mm Short Range Missiles (main Alpha entry, IINM this is the "standard" size they use for SRMs)

So if they can squeeze such a system into a 60mm mini-missile, then they should be able to do larger missiles. I know we are lacking length measurements and such (from the 2E RPG and the uRRG has full dimensions, but I don't know if its pulled from somewhere or not, but even without them we know the Alph's missiles have more volume). Now weather the laser warhead in this case would increase in damage from being made larger I suppose is debatable, or if it can even be made larger.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:32 pm
  

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Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:33 pm
  

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Knight

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ShadowLogan wrote:
That really isn't an option since it isn't the result of editing (it could have been edited out), but rather actor/writer error.

Well... it's unlikely, but the error could have been introduced post-recording when they were putting together the mixing list for that episode's audio tracks. It's not nearly as likely as it being a writer's error, but it IS possible, at least in theory...



ShadowLogan wrote:
I suppose the missiles could have been laser guided, but this gives us other options to expand the TO&E in RT a bit more.

Most of the larger, vehicle-mounted launchers were firing radar-guided missiles... but we do know some of the Mars Colony equipment used laser targeting in the OSM. I think the best case for a laser cannon mounted on a missile is that one of the three OSMs wholeheartedly supports the technology's existence even though the other two do not...



ShadowLogan wrote:
Well if Lunk's Jeep IS treated as firing laser equipped missiles, then the Alpha's (and others) should be useable to.

Within the context of the RPG universe we know:
-the weapon system Lunk's jeep was using fired 60mm mini-missiles (NG SB pg58)

OK, you threw me for a minute there... Jim/Lunk drove two missile launcher-equipped vehicles in the series, the one the OSM calls "Jim's Jeep" (RT RPG: AAT-30) and a "Large Jeep" (RT RPG: M-70).


ShadowLogan wrote:
So if they can squeeze such a system into a 60mm mini-missile, then they should be able to do larger missiles. I know we are lacking length measurements and such (from the 2E RPG and the uRRG has full dimensions, but I don't know if its pulled from somewhere or not, but even without them we know the Alph's missiles have more volume).

Length may be more of an issue than total volume, since even the man-portable laser weapons capable hurting an Invid have pretty lengthy barrels. The missiles launched by Jim's jeep have a longer profile than the ones launched from the Legioss/Alpha.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:37 am
  

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Knight

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Seto wrote:
OK, you threw me for a minute there... Jim/Lunk drove two missile launcher-equipped vehicles in the series, the one the OSM calls "Jim's Jeep" (RT RPG: AAT-30) and a "Large Jeep" (RT RPG: M-70).

The one he drove in the scene in question in Ep84 (AAT-30) as that is the one connected with the dialogue line in question. The AAT-30's weapons aren't part of the listing but listed separately as an add-on several pages later in the NG SB after the AAT-30 and M-70. Which is a 60mm (RPG) Mini-Missile system.

I am also considering it being mounted on larger class missiles, since if it can fit on a mini-missile it should fit on larger class missiles.

Seto wrote:
Length may be more of an issue than total volume, since even the man-portable laser weapons capable hurting an Invid have pretty lengthy barrels. The missiles launched by Jim's jeep have a longer profile than the ones launched from the Legioss/Alpha.


True, but how much of the size in the man portable weapons is a result of:
-the range of the laser/energy blast (typically in the hundreds of feet IINM, we only need it for a few tens of feet), there are a variety of laser weapons with shorter barrel versions having reduced range (TRM saga)
-the result of needing multiple shots (only need enough for 1 shot) before reloading, which increases the size of the weapon
-the result of needing to be reusable (only need it to work once), which means making sure the weapon when it fires can manage the energy release without damaging itself
-the result of ergonomics to allow human operation (hand grip/s, trigger mechanism, bracing, etc) that wouldn't be needed or made simpler.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:20 am
  

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The laser missile wouldn't be the strangest weapon out there. If you wanted another reason for this line of dialogue I once related Lunk's and Max's "I've got the laser rifle" to a 2008 blockbuster movie that everyone keeps reciting. To the characters then this dialogue makes perfect sense. To us, not so much.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:56 pm
  

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'Eat Lasers!' just sounds more sci-fi than 'Eat Missiles!' Then too, Lunk probably couldn't walk, rub his stomach, and chew gum at the same time. He's driving into combat, one-handing an anti-armor weapon, and talking at the same time; something slipped.


Just like 'Thunder asteroids!' was a safer alternative to introducing impressionable American kids to paint-blistering naval obscenities in Russian.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:25 pm
  

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Knight

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Bamse wrote:
The laser missile wouldn't be the strangest weapon out there. If you wanted another reason for this line of dialogue I once related Lunk's and Max's "I've got the laser rifle" to a 2008 blockbuster movie that everyone keeps reciting. To the characters then this dialogue makes perfect sense. To us, not so much.

As I noted in one of my previous posts, the "laser missile" is far from an unprecedented weapon in anime... arguably originating in Mobile Suit Gundam, but also present and accounted for in many Macross titles. (Likely as a result of staffing "cross-pollination" between shows.)

Robotech's owners, however, don't regard the dialog of the series to be an infallible source of information by any stretch of the imagination. As far as they're concerned these inexplicable pieces of dialog are simply human error on the part of the overworked (re)writing staff who were trying to meet deadlines so tight there wasn't sufficient time to review their work for consistency with itself or the animation. Most of 'em don't bear thinking about, being obvious screwups like "look out for the missile!" when a gunpod is shown falling... though a handful of fans have gotten cross about a few of the gaffes that crop up more than once like the dialog in the Masters Saga erroneously referring to the Sylphid as a veritech.



taalismn wrote:
'Eat Lasers!' just sounds more sci-fi than 'Eat Missiles!' Then too, Lunk probably couldn't walk, rub his stomach, and chew gum at the same time. He's driving into combat, one-handing an anti-armor weapon, and talking at the same time; something slipped.

Lunk was never depicted as being stupid. Cowardly, perhaps, but he was a qualified and efficient technician who ought to have known the weapons onboard the fighter better than anyone else in the group.



taalismn wrote:
Just like 'Thunder asteroids!' was a safer alternative to introducing impressionable American kids to paint-blistering naval obscenities in Russian.

But there weren't any of those in the original dialog either.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:26 pm
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
[
taalismn wrote:
Just like 'Thunder asteroids!' was a safer alternative to introducing impressionable American kids to paint-blistering naval obscenities in Russian.

But there weren't any of those in the original dialog either.


I wasn't implying he was stupid...just not completely proficiently multitasking. You can be a genius and still be a klutz, or not be contextually articulate when you're doing something else.

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
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To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

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Unread postPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:22 pm
  

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Knight

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I figure Lunk was announcing the wrong weapon to confuse his enemy.

We should see what he shouts in the original undubbed anime.

Jefffar wrote:
All I can say is the guy's name is Link for a reason...

He has the triforce of courage?

Or he lives in The Loud House?


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Unread postPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:02 am
  

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Knight

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Axelmania wrote:
I figure Lunk was announcing the wrong weapon to confuse his enemy.

We should see what he shouts in the original undubbed anime.


From the original, per the subtitles from ADV from GCM "Hell!". That is all Jim Austin (Lunk in RT) shouts.


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Unread postPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 6:06 pm
  

D-Bee

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From a meta perspective, it's obviously a dubbing error, where the line doesn't match with what's shown.

From an in-universe perspective, I kinda agree with Jefffar on this one. His nickname IS "Lunk" for a reason, after all! ;)


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Unread postPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 3:01 pm
  

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Knight

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I like the trope of the cunning chubby guy who pretends to be stupid, there's a couple of those in the TV series Gotham. I'm sure Lunk wants us to think he mixed up his weapons, but I bet he just announced the wrong weapon choice over the radio to Feint his enemy.


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