Board index » MDC Worlds » Robotech® - The Shadow Chronicles® - Macross II®

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:43 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:12 am
Posts: 23
Just had a friend point this out. Daleks want to exterminate us. The haydonites want to exterminate us. Just wondered.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:54 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 43193
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
Cylons too.
SKYNET counts as well, though it's less verbal, and more nuke and slay about it.
Oh, and Galaxy Note 7s want to kill us too, but we seem to have nipped that little uprising in the bud.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:56 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6176
Location: WI
True, but the Haydonites only seem to have a hate on for Protoculture users. So there are ways to avoid their wrath I would think , unlike the Cylons, Daleks, Cyber-man, Skynet, the Borg, etc where just "being" is enough to become their next target.

The Haydonite and Dalek connection doesn't just end there, they both only have ONE eye.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:27 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 43193
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
ShadowLogan wrote:
True, but the Haydonites only seem to have a hate on for Protoculture users. So there are ways to avoid their wrath I would think , unlike the Cylons, Daleks, Cyber-man, Skynet, the Borg, etc where just "being" is enough to become their next target.

The Haydonite and Dalek connection doesn't just end there, they both only have ONE eye.


So do Cylons. But Haydonites are snappier(at least less skanky) dressers.

However, properly speaking, Daleks are CYBORGS more akin to the Mechanoids in physiology, though Daleks were designed from the get-go as weapons systems(at least on paper; Davros saw them as a superior lifeform in his own twisted image). We don't know the Haydonite's background at all; they might be somebody's abandoned AIs now looking to take over the universe, starting with knocking off the Protoculture users, or they may be frustrated galactic garden maintenance roombas that regard the Flower of Life as the equivalent of finding weeds or ganja growing in their cosmic orderliness.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:03 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 5030
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Except for the "created by humans" part, the reimagined Haydonites used in Shadow Chronicles are a fairly obvious copy of the Cylons from the Battlestar Galactica reboot that was airing right around the time development started, including having sabotaged humanity's military technology. Their fighters even look like old school Cylon fighters.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:37 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:39 am
Posts: 159
Location: Tipp City, OH.
taalismn wrote:
.... or they may be frustrated galactic garden maintenance roombas that regard the Flower of Life as the equivalent of finding weeds or ganja growing in their cosmic orderliness.


What is scary is that I think that is one of the best reasons for their motivation that I have seen. The "evil being talking over the galaxy" thing gets old as well as the need to control protoculture. Maybe they see themselves as guardians trying to save the universe from the evil that the flower of life and its addicts has caused.

_________________
"Where ever you go, there you are"-Buckaroo Banzai

"Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed"-Sun Tzu

"Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence"-Sun Tzu


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:04 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6176
Location: WI
Quote:
We don't know the Haydonite's background at all; they might be somebody's abandoned AIs now looking to take over the universe, starting with knocking off the Protoculture users, or they may be frustrated galactic garden maintenance roombas that regard the Flower of Life as the equivalent of finding weeds or ganja growing in their cosmic orderliness.

I thought it was established the Haydonites are cybernetic orgnasims. The Haydonite Grant/Scott take down to rescue Janice-2 could be considered to "bleed", just like Invid mecha.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:41 am
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 3:52 pm
Posts: 1546
I always saw the Haydonites as a robotic version of Discworld's Auditors.

Lemme see...
Hooded robes over floating creature, check.
Haydonites want to wipe out the users of Protoculture, one of the most chaotic, mutagenic substances ever to exist.
Auditors want to wipe out chaos and illogic cause by the belief of humans.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:51 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
Posts: 43193
Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
wyrmraker wrote:
I always saw the Haydonites as a robotic version of Discworld's Auditors.

Lemme see...
Hooded robes over floating creature, check.
Haydonites want to wipe out the users of Protoculture, one of the most chaotic, mutagenic substances ever to exist.
Auditors want to wipe out chaos and illogic cause by the belief of humans.


Scott Bernard: "...ah..." :shock:
Death: DIDN'T THINK I WAS ON YOUR SIDE, DID YOU? IT'S A COMMON MISTAKE.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:23 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 1608
Location: In the Land of La La
Comment: Well men if we're going to die, then let us die with honor.
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Except for the "created by humans" part, the reimagined Haydonites used in Shadow Chronicles are a fairly obvious copy of the Cylons from the Battlestar Galactica reboot that was airing right around the time development started, including having sabotaged humanity's military technology. Their fighters even look like old school Cylon fighters.



Actually the haydonite were more aggressive in the End of the Circle book. not murderous, but they had some content before the reboot of BSG.

_________________
Well men if we are destine to die, let us die with honor

If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

The final form of a person character lies in their own hands


Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:14 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 5030
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
Actually the haydonite were more aggressive in the End of the Circle book. not murderous, but they had some content before the reboot of BSG.

Not really relevant, given that Harmony Gold explicitly disowned the novels around the time the movie's development started.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:05 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 1608
Location: In the Land of La La
Comment: Well men if we're going to die, then let us die with honor.
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
Actually the haydonite were more aggressive in the End of the Circle book. not murderous, but they had some content before the reboot of BSG.

Not really relevant, given that Harmony Gold explicitly disowned the novels around the time the movie's development started.



You argurments are actually really boring. They disowned what they wrote. Not that is was not written. I was just pointing out they had flavor back in the Sentinels and the follow up book. Like it or not they had more then a basic they use protoculture kill them.

_________________
Well men if we are destine to die, let us die with honor

If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

The final form of a person character lies in their own hands


Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:03 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 5030
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
You argurments are actually really boring. They disowned what they wrote. Not that is was not written. I was just pointing out they had flavor back in the Sentinels and the follow up book. Like it or not they had more then a basic they use protoculture kill them.

Well, I'm sorry if you don't find the facts especially entertaining... but as objective truth doesn't often make for truly captivating reading, that's not exactly my fault.

It's pretty unlikely that Harmony Gold would draw on the Robotech novelization for inspiration, especially as they had just finished condemning it as a poor-quality inconsistent mess when "Robotech: Shadow Force" was finally announced.

However, from both the existing Shadow Chronicles material, it's pretty evident that Harmony Gold was taking a lot of pointers from the rebooted Battlestar Galactica. Like the BSGr Cylons, they're a race of partly-organic cyborgs created by transferring a biological consciousness into an artificial body. They've got a hate-on for humans over an issue of human dependency and racism resulting from a war they fought in the ancient past, and are able to integrate a backdoor vulnerability into humanity's military technology in an attempt to destroy them by making their weapons unusable. They have a female-form infiltrator attached at the hip to a top military scientist. From the plot outline that was leaked, they even run into internal factional problems after some Haydonites in close contact with humans start to understand and experience the full range of human emotions. Their starships even look similar to the Cylon resurrection ship.

'course, their dress sense and fighter design are more evocative of the original Battlestar Galactica. They seem to go to the same tailor as Imperious Leader for red robes with black trim around the collar, and their fighters look like someone stuck the wings from the Cylon Raider in BSGr onto a classic Raider. About the only thing that doesn't look like it was borrowed from Battlestar Galactica is their faces... they all look like the Hal 9000 when they're wearing their hoods.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:31 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 1608
Location: In the Land of La La
Comment: Well men if we're going to die, then let us die with honor.
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
You argurments are actually really boring. They disowned what they wrote. Not that is was not written. I was just pointing out they had flavor back in the Sentinels and the follow up book. Like it or not they had more then a basic they use protoculture kill them.

Well, I'm sorry if you don't find the facts especially entertaining... but as objective truth doesn't often make for truly captivating reading, that's not exactly my fault.

It's pretty unlikely that Harmony Gold would draw on the Robotech novelization for inspiration, especially as they had just finished condemning it as a poor-quality inconsistent mess when "Robotech: Shadow Force" was finally announced.


Really? General Edward's traitor story line? that was not novel driven? All the Sentinel Races including the Haydonites. Then we have the Regent and the divided Invid forces. They sucked the novels of lots of vital story bits. Just because you want to disown something does not mean it goes away. otherwise the warning if you put it on the net its there forever.

Seto Kaiba wrote:
However, from both the existing Shadow Chronicles material, it's pretty evident that Harmony Gold was taking a lot of pointers from the rebooted Battlestar Galactica. Like the BSGr Cylons, they're a race of partly-organic cyborgs created by transferring a biological consciousness into an artificial body. They've got a hate-on for humans over an issue of human dependency and racism resulting from a war they fought in the ancient past, and are able to integrate a backdoor vulnerability into humanity's military technology in an attempt to destroy them by making their weapons unusable. They have a female-form infiltrator attached at the hip to a top military scientist. From the plot outline that was leaked, they even run into internal factional problems after some Haydonites in close contact with humans start to understand and experience the full range of human emotions. Their starships even look similar to the Cylon resurrection ship.

this is not a unique story arc. Not for either of these shows. sorry robots/droids betraying their makers have been there for generations.

Seto Kaiba wrote:
So lots of ships look like other ships in Scifi. See that was your style of argument. the Discrpition of the ships in
'course, their dress sense and fighter design are more evocative of the original Battlestar Galactica. They seem to go to the same tailor as Imperious Leader for red robes with black trim around the collar, and their fighters look like someone stuck the wings from the Cylon Raider in BSGr onto a classic Raider. About the only thing that doesn't look like it was borrowed from Battlestar Galactica is their faces... they all look like the Hal 9000 when they're wearing their hoods.



The Original Raider was disk like. Wraiths are winged but do not look like either raider. The Haydon's wore robes to hide the fact they were floating cyborg/robot heads. Did they borrow concept designs? More then likely. Most things written and made into movies do these days.

_________________
Well men if we are destine to die, let us die with honor

If all of your wishes are granted then many of your dreams will be destroyed.

The final form of a person character lies in their own hands


Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:08 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 5030
Location: New Frontier Shipyard, Earth-Moon L5
Comment: "My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie."
Lt Gargoyle wrote:
Seto Kaiba wrote:
It's pretty unlikely that Harmony Gold would draw on the Robotech novelization for inspiration, especially as they had just finished condemning it as a poor-quality inconsistent mess when "Robotech: Shadow Force" was finally announced.


Really? General Edward's traitor story line? that was not novel driven?

Demonstrably driven by the old Sentinels comic books, in point of fact. The Prelude comic picked up right where the Waltrip Bros comics left off in the most literal sense, to the extent that Prelude's first issue had a lot of panels that were redrawn panels from the final issue of the old comics. Mind you, his obsession with bringing the Hunters down via backstabbing goes all the way back to the original aborted Sentinels series concept. IIRC his turning into a swamp monster is new though.



Lt Gargoyle wrote:
All the Sentinel Races including the Haydonites. Then we have the Regent and the divided Invid forces. They sucked the novels of lots of vital story bits.

Those existed long before the novelization came along, mate... the Sentinels races and the Invid Regent leading the divided Invid race were part of the aborted Sentinels TV series. Tommy cut the number of ambassadors down by half but he even kept the original names from Macek's canceled series.

Just because something is in the novels doesn't mean it originated there. :roll:



Lt Gargoyle wrote:
this is not a unique story arc. Not for either of these shows. sorry robots/droids betraying their makers have been there for generations.

Attempting to dismiss obvious correlation in the specifics by citing that a generality is not uncommon is not a valid argument.

It's undeniable that the Haydonites in Shadow Chronicles have a great many suspicious similarities to the fully reimagined Cylons from the Battlestar Galactica reboot that just happened to be on the air right when development got started.



Lt Gargoyle wrote:
So lots of ships look like other ships in Scifi. See that was your style of argument. the Discrpition of the ships in [...]

Why'd you attempt to insert this in a block of text quoted from my post?

It's true that some visual coincidences are inevitable in sci-fi, but the idea that it's purely coincidental that everything the Haydonites use looks like it was nicked from Battlestar Galactica when the Haydonites themselves already demonstrably take an alarming number of "pointers" from the BSGr version of the Cylons is a defense that's just about impossible to swallow.



Lt Gargoyle wrote:
Did they borrow concept designs? More then likely. Most things written and made into movies do these days.

You... haven't forgotten that the topic here was the "similarities" between the Haydonites and other genocidal sci-fi cyborgs/robots, have you?

Also, in this case it's less "a homage here and there" as most titles do, and more a "borderline mockbuster" level of copying.

_________________
Macross2.net - Home of the Macross Mecha Manual

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Damn you for anticipating my question. I've really got to unfoe you, your information is far more valuable than my sanity when dealing with your blunt callousness. :)


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:31 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Posts: 6176
Location: WI
Seto wrote:
It's pretty unlikely that Harmony Gold would draw on the Robotech novelization for inspiration, especially as they had just finished condemning it as a poor-quality inconsistent mess when "Robotech: Shadow Force" was finally announced.

I don't know about this, personally I think the novels had pretty decent INTERNAL quality compared to the 85ep series. Where you see the biggest "mess" from the Novels stems more from trying to make them (Novels & Series) work together in a single universe (especially with the 2000-ish "reset"), when it is best to treat them separately. Then again the "continuity mess" by 2000 extended to include several other media, and HG really didn't take the best approach.

Lt. Gargoyle wrote:
Really? General Edward's traitor story line? that was not novel driven? All the Sentinel Races including the Haydonites. Then we have the Regent and the divided Invid forces. They sucked the novels of lots of vital story bits. Just because you want to disown something does not mean it goes away. otherwise the warning if you put it on the net its there forever.

Seto is correct, the Novelization of the Sentinels comes from 1988 I want to say (I know the 85ep date from '87). I'm not to familiar with comic dates, but Sentinels OVA dates to 1986. So really the comics and novels where working from the same source material generated for Sentinels that couldn't be used (IINM Robotech Art III goes into details for what was planned for the Sentinel series), but they both did their own take with it and in some cases drew on the other for material (McKinney stated this in the author's note for Book 19 that he pulled ideas and such from comics).

So really pointing to the Novels doesn't show that HG is pulling from them given the Novels worked from the same rough outline as the comics for the aborted Sentinel series that was reduced to an OVA.


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group