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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:51 am
  

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while obviously the cyclones would be organized along the line of an infantry unit (squads of 8-14 men, platoons being 2-4 squads.. depending on which national scheme your prefer to use), and the larger mecha would be organized along the line of Armored Vehicles (Destroids/battloids) or Aircraft squadrons (Veritechs), how would the 'in between' mecha like the UEEF's Golem and Silverback or the ASC's Unicorn, Basilisk, Fenris, Kraken, Triton, and manticore?

would they be infantry organization, vehicle organization, or some new set up?




This is a discussion of the RPG's setting. it is not a discussion of relative viewpoints over canon or one's views as to the accuracy of the RPG. anyone attempting to derail the discussion by trying to steer things in that direction will be reported as trolling.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:22 am
  

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_combat_team

This brigade direction seems like it might fit. Light infantry vehicles and all.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:39 am
  

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tobefrnk wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade_combat_team

This brigade direction seems like it might fit. Light infantry vehicles and all.

you mind explaining how you see that working? adapting a formation built around APC's and units of infantry carried by them to single pilot mecha?

also i'm looking more at the levels below company level. once you've set up the platoon level you can work out the company, battalion and brigade/regiment levels easy enough.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:39 am
  

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IIRC, the destroid platoon is officially 2 squads of 4 (as opposed to 2 teams of 2 like we see in modern armour). Infantry officially seems like a squad of 8, likewise the PA size Mecha.

Intermediate Mecha may be squads of 6 then, probably only 2 to a platoon like the larger mecha.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:38 am
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
while obviously the cyclones would be organized along the line of an infantry unit (squads of 8-14 men, platoons being 2-4 squads.. depending on which national scheme your prefer to use), and the larger mecha would be organized along the line of Armored Vehicles (Destroids/battloids) or Aircraft squadrons (Veritechs), how would the 'in between' mecha like the UEEF's Golem and Silverback or the ASC's Unicorn, Basilisk, Fenris, Kraken, Triton, and manticore?

would they be infantry organization, vehicle organization, or some new set up?




This is a discussion of the RPG's setting. it is not a discussion of relative viewpoints over canon or one's views as to the accuracy of the RPG. anyone attempting to derail the discussion by trying to steer things in that direction will be reported as trolling.

Not counting the UEEF Golem (as I am not familiar with it), they likely operate as a form of infantry or infantry support.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:14 pm
  

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Jefffar wrote:
IIRC, the destroid platoon is officially 2 squads of 4 (as opposed to 2 teams of 2 like we see in modern armour). Infantry officially seems like a squad of 8, likewise the PA size Mecha.

Intermediate Mecha may be squads of 6 then, probably only 2 to a platoon like the larger mecha.


so comparable to the organization of scout car companies from WW2? which ran 10-12 vehicles in units of 3 to 6, depending on nationality. not sure if they're still organized like that.
since scout/recon vehicle platoons used armored cars, they often got used for infantry support as well, being attached to companies of infantry for specific engagements, even though they were separate units on the TO&E.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:31 am
  

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How mixed are you wanting a company? Look at something like a SBCT(Striker Brigade Combat Team) style mechanized infantry company as a starting point. A single company, with an organic mix of units and capabilities. A SBCT company has something like 14 ICVs(edit I had a wrong number here earlier), 3 MGS, and 4 other Striker variants(2 Mortar, 1 EVAC, 1 Fire Support), plus 4 wheeled supply vehicles and the actual infantry(3 platoons, each made of 39 troops).

For a Cyclone/Infantry company I would look at something like this:

1 HQ platoon with a few support vehicles, and two Infantry squads as listed below.

3 Cyclone Rider Platoons, each made of 3 Infantry squads, made of 8 Cyclones and 1 SIlverback plus a weapons team made of say 8 Silverbacks.

With this would be a "gun" platoon made of 8 heavier units of choice from like VHT on up to work as anti-armor, and fire support.

The fireteam and heavy guns can be concentrated, or split up and deployed with the infantry platoons directly.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:44 am
  

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I would imagine the Destroids would be like a tank or artillery platoon. A leader and 2-4 squad mates. As for the Cyclones I could seem them set up in like a fire team/squad. 4 per fire team, 3 fire teams to a squad and 3 squads to a platoon.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:58 pm
  

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Nazdrek wrote:
I would imagine the Destroids would be like a tank or artillery platoon. A leader and 2-4 squad mates. As for the Cyclones I could seem them set up in like a fire team/squad. 4 per fire team, 3 fire teams to a squad and 3 squads to a platoon.


personally I would expect them to be used sort of like a heavy weapons unit.

IE you have the infantry squad /platoon with a 4-8 man "regular" weapons infantry (cyclones) or similar, then for say 2 squads of them you attach a "heavy weapons" section, of 1-2 of the intermediate level units.

now the makeup of specific units might vary significantly, with some units having NO intermediate units all the way up to "heavy weapons" units that are basically ALL intermediate level units, but these are typically "assault" units.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:11 pm
  

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Nazdrek wrote:
I would imagine the Destroids would be like a tank or artillery platoon. A leader and 2-4 squad mates. As for the Cyclones I could seem them set up in like a fire team/squad. 4 per fire team, 3 fire teams to a squad and 3 squads to a platoon.

OSM-ly speaking, Destroids were organized pretty much exactly the same as VF squadrons were... albeit using the ground forces-equivalent terminology. The smallest level of organization in a destroid battalion was the platoon, a formation of 3-4 units much like a modern tank platoon. The battalion was divided into 2 or more companies that were themselves composed of 2 or more platoons, and the battalion itself was 5 or more platoons. This applied to everything except the Monsters, which weren't numerous enough.

The ride armors in MOSPEADA were organized just like infantry, with the default level being the battle company.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:40 pm
  

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RockJock wrote:
How mixed are you wanting a company? Look at something like a SBCT(Striker Brigade Combat Team) style mechanized infantry company as a starting point. A single company, with an organic mix of units and capabilities. A SBCT company has something like 6 ICVs, 3 MGS, and 4 other Striker variants(2 Mortar, 1 EVAC, 1 Fire Support), plus 4 wheeled supply vehicles and the actual infantry(3 platoons, each made of 39 troops).

For a Cyclone/Infantry company I would look at something like this:

1 HQ platoon with a few support vehicles, and two Infantry squads as listed below.

3 Cyclone Rider Platoons, each made of 3 Infantry squads, made of 8 Cyclones and 1 SIlverback plus a weapons team made of say 8 Silverbacks.

With this would be a "gun" platoon made of 8 heavier units of choice from like VHT on up to work as anti-armor, and fire support.

The fireteam and heavy guns can be concentrated, or split up and deployed with the infantry platoons directly.



A 'Weapons' unit for every 3 'Line' unti sina formation could certainly work for the lighter mecha, though I wouldn't hybridize the composition of a squad.

We already know Cyclone and PA squads are organized like infantry (so 8 PA in an ASC Squad, 13 Cyclones/Walkers in a UEEF Marines squad, unclear about a UEEF army squad).

A platoon could have a fire support squad of heavier units (Golem or Silverbacks for UEEF, Battloids for ASC) to go along with the 2 or 3 squads of lighter mecha. You typically won't see a heavier mecha in a unit of lighter mecha though (so no Silverback leading a Cyclone squad) but you might see the heavy weapons variants (ie Devastator Cyclones) with in the squad and you might see a fire team of the heavier mecha operating in support of a lighter mecha squad.

So, for example, a UEEF Marine Cyclone Platoon might look kinda like this

Command Team - Platoon Leader, Senior NCO, Communications specialist, medical specialist
3x Cyclone Squads - Squad Leader, three Fireteams of 3 VR-052 Cyclones and 1 VR-057 Cyclone each
1x Silverback Squad - 3 Fireteams of 2 Silverbacks each.

When in combat the Silverback Squad either works as a single unit to focus its firepower or splits into 3 pairs of SIlverbacks, each pair supporting a different squad to add to their firepower.

This scales up as you go with a Company becoming 3 Cyclone Platoons plus a Silverback Platoon while a battalion is 3 Cyclone Companies supported by a Silverback Company.

As the unit size goes up, more specialist units are also attached. The Company might have a squad of VR-038 Cyclones tasked for Recon while the Battalion may have a squad of Silverbacks with Flak Cannons for local air defense and so on.

I'd suggest that at Brigade and Regiment size we'd start to see more blendign of types once again. A Mechanized Infantry Brigade having 1 or more battalions each of infantry in APCs, Powered Armours and Battloids plus lots of artillery, air defense and other specialist units.

Though in player terms, it's rare that composition of anything bigger than a company matters in game.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:26 pm
  

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I mixed the Silverback in at a low level to provide fire support. I'm not sure if I see them more as a squad machine gunner, or a squad leader type unit, but something along those lines.

I also wanted the ability to mix them into a squad if you wanted game wise.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:25 am
  

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Most PC groups would default to being ad-hoc units like the STORM Teams where characters with diverse skill sets and equipment loads are put together for a special purpose.

When I do proper squads, etc with characters I tend to have each character leading a squad of NPC redshirts.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:22 am
  

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glitterboy2098 wrote:
while obviously the cyclones would be organized along the line of an infantry unit (squads of 8-14 men, platoons being 2-4 squads.. depending on which national scheme your prefer to use), and the larger mecha would be organized along the line of Armored Vehicles (Destroids/battloids) or Aircraft squadrons (Veritechs), how would the 'in between' mecha like the UEEF's Golem and Silverback or the ASC's Unicorn, Basilisk, Fenris, Kraken, Triton, and manticore?

would they be infantry organization, vehicle organization, or some new set up?




This is a discussion of the RPG's setting. it is not a discussion of relative viewpoints over canon or one's views as to the accuracy of the RPG. anyone attempting to derail the discussion by trying to steer things in that direction will be reported as trolling.


What time period are you looking at.
For example a VF squadron in Macross is 12 craft with 4 teams / flights of 3 craft.
A VF squadron in the shadow chronicles seem to be 15 craft with three teams / flights of 5 craft each.

For the UEEF Golem per it's description in the Marine sourcebook seem to be assigned to the Heavy weapons company. Which is stated to be one HWC per three rifle companies of infantry.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:25 am
  

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After rereading things I would simplify what I originally posted.

Destroids come in squads of 4, with a platoon being 2 squads, and apparently no separate command unit . Really large if you compare them to modern armor units, but it works.

Cyclones are in squads of 13, with a transport as sort of mounted/motorized infantry(since Destroids were considered mechanized???). I haven't found anything that says how many Cyclone squads make up a platoon. 3-4 makes sense to me. I would go with 3 line squads of 13 Cyclones, plus a command/support squad for a total of 4 squads. Each squad could be deployed with transports(Archron, or Horizont-T), or not.

I would leave all the mid weight mecha in squads of 4, but maybe 3 squads per platoon instead of the Destroids 2.

Companies would be made of 4 platoons, and could be of mixed, or solid composition. The company level would also designate the "job" of the unit. Everything from "airborne" or "air cav" units featuring mecha like Valiants, Strike Bioroids, Zen Battle/Officer Pods, Condors along with Horizont-T mobile Cyclones to "hover cav" using VHTs, and Cyclones in Archrons.

I still see the Silverbacks as being mixed in with Cyclones in the later era. If not at the squad level at least at the platoon level.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:59 am
  

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I personally did this for cyclones:

4 man teams
3 teams to a squad
3 squads plus 1 "command" team

40 cyclones total per platoon.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:26 pm
  

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The 13 strong Cyclone Squads do seem to specifically a UEEF Marine thing to match their 13 strong Infantry squads.

The ASC use an 8 strong Infantry squad, so logically their PA units will be similar.

No word on how the UEEF Army is organized.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:11 pm
  

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I really think a Cyclone platoon should be 3 squads so 3x13, plus a platoon leader, platoon sergeant, medic, and maybe a fire support team of 4-6. I'm going on the basis of needing a 4th Archron to carry the command and fireteam members for a platoon.

You can always go on the basis that the 13 man squad includes the platoon leader/sergeant/medic being built in, but I see them being additional bodies. Plus I like the 4 transport platoon.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:45 pm
  

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Well I think that since the Cyclone squad is based on the Rifle Squad, presumably the Cyclone Platoon would be based on the Rifle Platoon. So figuring out what makes sense for the Rifle Platoon would allow you to make sense of what a Cyclone Platoon would be.

Unfortunately the seating in the Archeron (somewhere between 20 and 24 riflemen) makes it a tad difficult to use that as a basis, however it is important to note that the USMC, which seems to be the ideological basis for the UEEF Marines has never tried to specifically co-ordinate squad or platoon sizes with transport sizes. Instead they will add or subtract elements as space permits, splitting squads between transports as needed.

Assuming at least 3 squads per platoon (39 Riflemen), that puts a minimum of 2 Archerons to hold a complete Platoon (40 to 48 seats). This depends on the command element and weapons team (if any) being some 1 to 9 strong.

If, we go to 3 Arceherons, with 1 Rifle Squad per each, that leaves 7 to 11 bonus seats in each transport. Assuming a rifle squad of three 4 marin weapon teams plus a squad leader divided up equally into each transport, that puts 17 marines each in 2 transports and 18 marines in a third transports. The remaining free seats can easily be occupied by a command team (Lt, Sgt, RTO) and attached personnel (Corpsman, Forward Observers).

So, this would put a rifle platoon as
Command Element (3)
Attached Personnel (2+)
3x Rifle Squads (13 Riflemen Each)
1x Weapons Squad (10 to 13 Riflemen)

So around 55 + attached personnel

Translated to a Cyclone Squad we'd see
Command Team: 3 VR-011. VR-015 or VR-052 Cyclones
Attached Personnel: 2 VR-011 or 1 VR-041M and 1 VR-052 Cyclone
3x Rifle Squads: 13x VR-011, VR-015 or VR-052 Cyclones
1x Weapons Squad: 10 to 13x VR-017 or VR-057 Cyclones

As the Cyclones are bigger than human infantry, this unit would need between 4 and 5 Archerons to transport, depending on if the transport capacity of the Archeron is 13 or 16 Cyclones.

We know that for every 3 rifle platoons in a UEEF Marine Company there is a Weapons Platoon composed of Battloids, Destroids and/or Fire Support Platforms. In the later UEEF Period this could arguably be a SIlverback platoon.

Edit: The above assumes a weapons squad is organic to each rifle platoon. In the USMC, instead the heavy weapons are kept with a weapons platoon in the company. If this is the case then the standard Rifle Platoon can fit into 2 Archerons with one of the Rifle Squads split up between the two.

The Infantry Weaposn Squad would then be 3 weapons squads with 3 fireteams each.. These three squads could be attached to the platoons to create the structure above with 1 Platoon + Attached Weapons Squad needing 3 Archerons. This would mena a company would be carried in 9 Archerons plus a 10th Archeron to carry the Platoon HQ and possibly a special purpose squad of Storm Commandos, Sniper/Scouts or similar.

In a Cyclone Company we'd see the weapons platoon composed of three squads of VR-017 or VR-057s. These would be attached to the Rifle Platoons creating a unit that is haulde by 4 Archerons per platoon (assuming the 16 seat capacity) or 12 Archerons plus 1 for the command team in a company.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:47 am
  

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I'll go with 12 Destroids for company/troop and 12 Verittechfighters for the air squadron.

2-4 MAC II/III form the fire support element

An infantry squad conists of 8 Cylcone Rider, the platonn of 3-4 squads and command element of 4-6 (PLT CMDR, PLT SGT, Medic, CommOfficer, Sniper-Team (2)), 3-4 Plattons form the Cyclone Company

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Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:00 am
  

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Destroids are 1 destroid = 1 squad 4 squads = a platoon 4 platoons = a company so a company would be 16 Destroids of the 4 platoons + 2 additional destroids as a command element for a total of 18 Destroids. They are organized more along the lines of an armor company.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:41 pm
  

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smkeyes - there is a logic to that, but we do know that at least for the UEEF Marines a Destroid Platoon is 2 squads of 4 Destroids each.

In my own mind I imagine a Destroid Company may have 2 platoons of MBR Destroids and an Air Defense Platoon of 4 ADR and 4 SDR series Destoids. In the field this Air Defense Platoon splits into 2 squads each with 2 ADR and 2 SDR. These squads attach themselves to the MBR platoons. If the MBR platoon splits into its squads, then an ADR and an SDR go with each squad.

So in combat, the Destroid Company would really function as 4 six-mecha units consisting of 4 MBR Destroids, 1 ADR Destroid and 1 SDR Destroid,

A Battalion might have 3 such companies supported by an Artillery Battery consisting of 2 firing platoons of 2 HWR series Destroids each along with a Long Range Air Defense Platoon of 2 ADR and 6 SDR Destroids. That would be 48 MBR series Destroids, 14 ADR series Destroids, 18 SDR series Destroids and HWR series Destroids. There would be various other command, specialist and support units to go along with this which may increase the total. The resulting force is not only formidable, btu flexible as well, being able to quickly break down into small units to accomplish multiple objectives simultaneously or being able to combine their firepower from multiple directions into a single objective.

The other nice thing is it works across eras. As MBRs, ADRs, SDRs and HWRs change.So with the UEDF we see the familiar Tomahawks, Spartans, Phalanxes, Defenders and Monsters but in the UEEF we could have Condors or Valiants replacing the Spartans and Tomahawks. In Love Live Alive we have evidence that the Southern Cross uses an HWR series Destroid, though they would replace MBRs with Battloids. A little mixing and matching is all you need.


Lately I have been thinking about how the various alien factions might organize as well. I admit not really being able to fathom the Invid but I think I have a good working forumla for Tirolian forces.

With Tirolian forces we have soem very useful infromation.

First, mecha assignment depends on rank. So you can select the types of mecha a unit has based on the number of Officers, Centurions and Enlisted it has.
Second, The assault carriers carry between 30 to 40 Bioroids on Hoversleds or 60 on foot. This implies that 30 is a unit building block of some sort.
Third, the Tirolians are obsessed with triumvarates. So you know that groups of 3 play an important role.
Finally, we also know that a scout Bioroid is a part of every platoon.

So, based on all that, here is my provisional Bioroid Company.

Command Triumvarate: 3 Officers in Red Biolroids, each supported by a pair of Centuions in Blue or Green Bioroids
Reconnaissance Triumvarate: 1 Centurion and 2 Enlisted in Scout Bioroids, accompanied by 6 Searchlight Drones

Three Bioroid Platoons consisting of
One Command Squad: 1 Officer in a Red Bioroid, 2 Centurions in Blue or Green Bioroids and 6 Enlisted in Blue Bioroids. The squad is divided into 3 fireteams of 3 Bioroids, each lead by the Officer or a Centurion with two Enlisted 'wingmen'
Two Bioroid Squads: 1 Centurion in a Blue or Green Bioroid and 8 Enlisted in Blue Bioroids. Divides up into 3 fireteams of 3 bioroids.
One Recon Team: 1 Enlisted or Centurion in a Scout Bioroid with two enlisted in Scout or Blue bioroids.

Each Platoon consists of 30 Bioroids, giving the company a strength o 90 Bioroids plus the command and recon elements for a total of 108 Bioroids and drones.

If mounted on Hoversleds, the unit divides up into 3 Assault Carriers with 1 Platoon in each carrier and space for either the command or recon triumvarates in each carrier. Without Hoversleds, the whole unit can pack into just 2 Assault Carriers.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:33 pm
  

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I looked up the US Marines since that's what Breetai used as his inspiration to build the REF marines. I uses Destroids/Battloids to cover down on Artillery and tanks. It's already been stated that Golems & Daniels are in weapon companies for infantry battalions. Cyclones & Silverbacks are used for the lighter LAV-25 vehicles and their variants. I tried to keep it in line with what we learn from the marine source book like the 202 marine strong companies as much as I could.

Here is what I came up with, some of it I had to fill in the blanks such as the weapon platoon attached to regular infantry companies. please pardon the bad grammar and spelling.

Marine light infantry battalion
Hq company
3 infantry companies(3 rifle plts, 1 weapon plt)
1 weapon company(4 daniels arty platforms and other 4 destroids/battloids)
*-assigned GMUs and Archon apcs depending on the mission

Planetary assault battalion(the marines have special amphibious assault units so why not the the same thing for the REF)
Hq company
2 to 6 assault companies
Each company has 3 sections of 4 horizon-t/v armored landing craft carrying either a light infantry company or a light armored inf. Company
*-planetary assault forces are paired with fold capable ships that can transport them and provide covering fire as they attempt to drop.

Light armored infantry battalions
(cyclones/silverbacks)
Hq company
3 companies(3 mech inf. Plts, 1 weapon plt)

Destroid/battloid/hover tank battalion(44 destroids/VHTs total) -FIXED-
Hq section(2 destroids/VHTs)
3 mecha companies(14 destroids/VHTs)(each)

Light infantry company breakdown(202 marines in total) (well close it it anyway)
Hq plt: 6 marines
1st,2nd,3rd platoons: 4 squads of 12 marines each
Weapon platoon: 1 assault section(4 rl-2 launchers),1 mortar section(3 m440 mortars), 1 machine gun section(6 m25b belt-fed wolverines)

Armored infantry company breakdown
-hq plt: 1 commander cyclone(any model w/commander helmet) or a silverback, 3 other cyclones(041h saber series, 015 spider, 038l series w/RL), 2 scouts(38r cyclones or 1 9e silverback), 1 medic(41m series)
-1st,2nd,3rd platoons: 12 front line cyclones(011 series and/or 52e/f series),
-weapon platoon: 2 heavy assault cyclones(017 crusader or 057 super series), 4 silverbacks(either 9l or 9h versions) or some variation of this mix.
-or combined anti-armor team: 2 silverbacks(either 9l or 9h), 4 038l cyclones


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Unread postPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 10:35 pm
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:32 am
Posts: 82
Location: Columbus, Ohio
I do Light Infantry Companies of approx. 165 personal and Cyclone Companies of 82 (half size as I approximate one cyclone for two infantrymen). Included in each Cyclone Company is 4 Silverbacks (one for the CO, one for the XO, and one for the leader of each of the two scout sections). The ASC mecha I treat as equal to cyclones, so 82 of them in a company. I have never used the Golem, but would probably replace a five cyclone assault section of VR-055s (I still use the Devestator) with Golems.

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