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 Post subject: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:10 am
  

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I've wondered about this for a while now. Are there any height restrictions in any of Palladium's games? I'm asking because I remember Captain Gloval banging his head on the Bridge Hatch a few times. Then I look at the Sentinals and a Praxian might be able to get on to the bridge, maybe a human sized mecha but it'd be a very tight uncomfortable fit because they're so tall. And I can't see a Karbarran making it though the bridge hatch much less the driver's seat of a destroid at all. They're just too big all around. Maybe a leg but that it. I also can't see Praxians just putting on a suit of CVR-3 armor and converting a Cyclone. Maybe a custom made CVR-3 armor but the Cyclone would also have to be scaled up or the connections wouldn't match up right. Conversely, having a character who's too small to see out the window or reach the controls isn't a good thing either. Can any one picture Annie LaBelle in CVR-3 Armor opperating Cyclone?

So is there an official height chart with piloting penalties for characters above or below average height any where in the megaverse or is that up to the GM?

Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:58 am
  

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Knight

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AFAIK there is no official height chart.

Officially though the Cyclone system must be adjustable given that Scott, Rook, Rand, and Lancer are all different heights. Vince Grant is also over 6ft tall and operates a Cyclone. Lunk is even taller than Vince, which could indicate the Cyclone can adjust for someone of Lunk's size to.

Unless the cockpit of the Alpha is out of the ordinary for UEEF mecha in general in terms of size/room, someone of Lunk's size is shown operating the Alpha and/or Beta on occasion (Lunk himself in "Big Apple"-Alpha and "Enter Marlene"-Beta IINM, plus a no-name in "Invid Invasion"-Alpha IIRC).


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:23 pm
  

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Sambot wrote:
I've wondered about this for a while now. Are there any height restrictions in any of Palladium's games? I'm asking because I remember Captain Gloval banging his head on the Bridge Hatch a few times. Then I look at the Sentinals [...]

So is there an official height chart with piloting penalties for characters above or below average height any where in the megaverse or is that up to the GM?

I don't believe there's anything in the actual rules about height limits... though they seem to be fairly lax on that even in the OSM, except for occasional comedic effect.

The bridge's security hatchway on the titular warship in Macross was scaled much like one on a naval warship built in the 80's... meaning the top of the hatchway is around 5'10", but the actual opening is less because of the lip protruding up from the deck an inch or two to provide a good seal. Modern ship doorways are a bit larger, but still rather cramped if you're a taller gent. Brigadier General Bruno J. Global was a fairly tall chap for a former UN Navy submariner at a hair under 6'4.5". I'm 6'6" and I was smacking my head fairly often while touring the USS Iowa recently. The VF-1 seems to have an unusually roomy cockpit too, given that several of its pilots in Macross have been over six feet tall. Hayao Kakizaki (RT: Ben Dixon) was 6'9.5", and Roy Focker was a whopping 7'1". (He was scaled back somewhat in Macross Zero, to a more reasonable 6'3".)

The cast of MOSPEADA's much shorter... most of the cast hovers between 160 and 180cm (5'3" to 5'11"), with Jim Warston (RT: "Lunk") being around 195cm (~6'4.5"). IIRC, you had to be under 2m tall to wear a riding suit for interface with a Ride Armor (RT: Cyclone). Since the riding suit is effectively also the pilot suit, it can be assumed with relative safety that you have to be 2m or less to fit into the cockpit of a Legioss (RT: Alpha) or TLEAD (RT: Beta).

(I know the Macross equivalent, EX-Gear, supports heights between 150cm and 235cm... 4'11" and 7'8.5".)

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:32 am
  

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Thanks guys. I didn't think so but I could have missed it or just forgotten it. It's nice to know for sure.

And thanks Seto Kaiba

Those heights are what I was looking for. 2 meters or less lets most Praxians pilot cyclones with the larger Praxians piloting old Macross Mecha with their roomier cockpits. And it works for other games too.

Roy was 7'1"? Wow!


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:20 pm
  

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Sambot wrote:
Roy was 7'1"? Wow!

Yeah, it's easy to overlook if you're not Japanese... but Roy Focker is kind of a slightly racist caricature of Americans from the Japanese stereotypes of us. It was done affectionately in Macross, whereas his predecessor in the Gundam franchise (Sleggar Law) was allegedly not so affectionate before accidentally becoming a beloved "big brother" character instead of an overbearing clod.

The stereotypical American is an extremely tall, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, boisterous, overly-friendly party boy who's quick to anger, quick to forgive, and prone to hard drinking, skirt chasing, laughing out loud for no reason, talking too loud, and has minimal respect for things like personal space or public decorum and an almost naively optimistic worldview.

(You'll surely notice that, if you take out the naive optimism, this is a pretty perfect description of Roy... especially in the original Japanese version.)

They dialed his case of "huge" down a bit in Macross Zero, but in keeping with the stereotype he was a whopping 7'1" in the original Macross series.

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:04 am
  

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In the Marines book, under Available OCCs, it says that the Karbarran can only pilot The destroids, while the Praxians can choose to be any. So yes there is a certain height/size restriction. However i believe that most of the area where te Karabarran would be on a ship could accommodate them. the Bridge looks like a huge person could stand there with plenty of head room. (using the view of the Icarus in shadow chronicles) and the elevator could handle one with several human size. Especially since they help build the human fleet.

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:44 pm
  

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i suspect that the Karbarran problem is less height than it is width.. they aren't really that much taller than Praxians, but they are almost as wide as they are tall, with a broad shouldered build that would make fitting a cyclone tricky.

that said, i would have no issue with them getting their own version of the CVR-1/2/3 armors fit to their scale, and using a version of the CBA-07 Walker non-transforming power armor suit (UEEF Marines pg82-84) redesigned to their body size and proportions. this would give them viable infantry scale options, if limited compared to what the rest of the races can use.

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:33 am
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sambot wrote:
Roy was 7'1"? Wow!

Yeah, it's easy to overlook if you're not Japanese... but Roy Focker is kind of a slightly racist caricature of Americans from the Japanese stereotypes of us. It was done affectionately in Macross, whereas his predecessor in the Gundam franchise (Sleggar Law) was allegedly not so affectionate before accidentally becoming a beloved "big brother" character instead of an overbearing clod.

The stereotypical American is an extremely tall, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, boisterous, overly-friendly party boy who's quick to anger, quick to forgive, and prone to hard drinking, skirt chasing, laughing out loud for no reason, talking too loud, and has minimal respect for things like personal space or public decorum and an almost naively optimistic worldview.

(You'll surely notice that, if you take out the naive optimism, this is a pretty perfect description of Roy... especially in the original Japanese version.)

They dialed his case of "huge" down a bit in Macross Zero, but in keeping with the stereotype he was a whopping 7'1" in the original Macross series.



Didn't know that. Cool. Thanks :)



glitterboy2098 wrote:
i suspect that the Karbarran problem is less height than it is width.. they aren't really that much taller than Praxians, but they are almost as wide as they are tall, with a broad shouldered build that would make fitting a cyclone tricky.

that said, i would have no issue with them getting their own version of the CVR-1/2/3 armors fit to their scale, and using a version of the CBA-07 Walker non-transforming power armor suit (UEEF Marines pg82-84) redesigned to their body size and proportions. this would give them viable infantry scale options, if limited compared to what the rest of the races can use.



Yeah, their width is a big part of is. I did say they were big overall. Just looking at the picture the Karbarran's legs is wider than the guy in CVR-3 armor. I really can't see them getting into a human sized cockpit. I can see the UEEF making Praxian and Karbarran sized CVR armor and weaponry though. I can even see them creating their own mecha. I used to imagine that some of the pre-production designs were actually designed for the Sentinals.


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:29 pm
  

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There may be more aggressive physical size limitations on the Alpha and Beta... I was rewatching some episodes for another thread, and noticed Lunk's first outing in the Beta has him hunched over uncomfortably and clearly having difficulty fitting into the cockpit, and he's not even 2m tall.

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:25 pm
  

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Seto wrote:
There may be more aggressive physical size limitations on the Alpha and Beta... I was rewatching some episodes for another thread, and noticed Lunk's first outing in the Beta has him hunched over uncomfortably and clearly having difficulty fitting into the cockpit, and he's not even 2m tall.

1.97m, which is a fairly small margin to be off by (especially since it doesn't take much to round it to 2m that the 2E RPG appears to basically have done when they put his height in English Units at 6'5", to bad we don't have Vince Grant or another "tall guy" in TSC/Prelude in an Alpha or Beta cockpit, though if Breetai can squeeze into a Bioroid cockpit that would be one option for Kabarens...).

Lunk operates the Alpha and Beta, and we can see another similarly oversized Greenshirt Alpha pilot (w/Beta attachment) in NG#1 that appears to have Lunk's build (IMHO).

I will admit Lunk does look distressed while flying the Beta, but I am a bit leery of saying he has trouble fitting into the cockpit. Rand, Lancer, and Scott ALL seem to have their heads poking above the seat headrest with some room to spare, unlike Lunk (appears to be almost level) and all 3 of them are shorter than he is by a tleast 0.12m. Now Lunk's knees are visible I grant you, unlike the shorter men in the Beta cockpit. So it might be an illusion that he can't fit in the cockpit well because of his actual size, but rather the seat configuration at the time (and for what ever reason wasn't adjusted properly).

When Lunk operates the Alpha he does not appear to be distressed ("The Big Apple") from the size of the cockpit either, which is the only time we see him flying in the Alpha cockpit as an operator. The only other time he was in the cockpit (IINM) was "Metamorphosis" in the Alpha-Z doing repairs with Annie sitting outside on the upper fuselage/intake.


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:02 am
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
There may be more aggressive physical size limitations on the Alpha and Beta... I was rewatching some episodes for another thread, and noticed Lunk's first outing in the Beta has him hunched over uncomfortably and clearly having difficulty fitting into the cockpit, and he's not even 2m tall.


Yeah, I remember that. Kind of like an adult sitting in a preschooler's desk.


ShadowLogan wrote:
Seto wrote:
There may be more aggressive physical size limitations on the Alpha and Beta... I was rewatching some episodes for another thread, and noticed Lunk's first outing in the Beta has him hunched over uncomfortably and clearly having difficulty fitting into the cockpit, and he's not even 2m tall.

1.97m, which is a fairly small margin to be off by (especially since it doesn't take much to round it to 2m that the 2E RPG appears to basically have done when they put his height in English Units at 6'5", to bad we don't have Vince Grant or another "tall guy" in TSC/Prelude in an Alpha or Beta cockpit, though if Breetai can squeeze into a Bioroid cockpit that would be one option for Kabarens...).

Lunk operates the Alpha and Beta, and we can see another similarly oversized Greenshirt Alpha pilot (w/Beta attachment) in NG#1 that appears to have Lunk's build (IMHO).

I will admit Lunk does look distressed while flying the Beta, but I am a bit leery of saying he has trouble fitting into the cockpit. Rand, Lancer, and Scott ALL seem to have their heads poking above the seat headrest with some room to spare, unlike Lunk (appears to be almost level) and all 3 of them are shorter than he is by a tleast 0.12m. Now Lunk's knees are visible I grant you, unlike the shorter men in the Beta cockpit. So it might be an illusion that he can't fit in the cockpit well because of his actual size, but rather the seat configuration at the time (and for what ever reason wasn't adjusted properly).

When Lunk operates the Alpha he does not appear to be distressed ("The Big Apple") from the size of the cockpit either, which is the only time we see him flying in the Alpha cockpit as an operator. The only other time he was in the cockpit (IINM) was "Metamorphosis" in the Alpha-Z doing repairs with Annie sitting outside on the upper fuselage/intake.


Does that mean that some Alpha and Beta cockpits are roomier than others?


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:24 am
  

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Sambot wrote:
Does that mean that some Alpha and Beta cockpits are roomier than others?

Unlikely IMHO. We only have examples of ONE Beta's cockpit with four different users (Lunk, Scott, Rand, Lancer), and the Alpha cockpits don't appear to be all that different (though individual models H/I/Z/S might have slight differences is a possibility, but I don't know if I'd say they are roomier).


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:49 pm
  

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Sambot wrote:
Does that mean that some Alpha and Beta cockpits are roomier than others?

Almost certainly not... though, from the lineart of the AB-01 TLEAD (Transport Legioss Escort Armored Dreadnought), it can be said with certainty that the TLEAD (RT: Beta) was not what you'd call "tall person friendly". Though I guess you could say the same for most any aircraft, military or civilian.

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:09 pm
  

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honestly i took Lunks posture while flying the Betanot as him not fitting well so much as "he's not comfortable flying it".. when he is flying it he acts nervous. since he was not a mecha pilot, he probably was either worried that the invid would arrive and he'd have to try and take the Beta into battle, or was just unfamiliar enough with the Beta to worry he's gonna crash it. the later seems as likely given the beta was a type of mecha he'd not seen before when he found it at Point K (per his own dialog)

when we see Lunk in an Alpha he seems slightly more confident. possibly because he had more experience with them. (he did rebuild one, the one he gives to Scott near the start of new generation. it would make sense that he'd familiarized himself with the design.. and it is possible the Alpha is more similar to other veritechs he'd worked with during his earlier career.)

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:39 am
  

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Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sambot wrote:
Does that mean that some Alpha and Beta cockpits are roomier than others?

Almost certainly not... though, from the lineart of the AB-01 TLEAD (Transport Legioss Escort Armored Dreadnought), it can be said with certainty that the TLEAD (RT: Beta) was not what you'd call "tall person friendly". Though I guess you could say the same for most any aircraft, military or civilian.

It isn't just aircraft, spacecraft also aren't always friendly to tall people (ex. some US Astronauts could fly on the shuttle, but are to tall to use the Russian Soyuz-TM/TMA).

The Shadow Alpha cockpit vs standard Alpha cockpit per AotSC (pgs 79 & 82) show that some changes have occurred to the Alpha cockpit. Weather it adds any real room or not, or even applies to the Beta (standard vs shadow) is anyones guess at this point.

Though I do have to wonder about the "tall person friendly" aspect from an OSM perspective it seems odd that everyone is so short given they are all/majority born on Mars (lower gravity worlds like Mars should encourage tall people, IINM they did not have artificial gravity technology) or other low gravity worlds (ex Jupiter's Moons or even Earth's). From a RT perspective its a bit easier to understand the height thing (as 6ft+ people aren't average).


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:10 am
  

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I believe like real fighters craft, the alpha and beta would have size restriction. Once you reach a certain height you could no longer fly them. In the Marine book, the Karbarran can only use destroids. I'm willing to bet that lunk was stressed when in the cockpit of the beta and that was the best way to show the tension in the show.

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:42 pm
  

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According to the military height limit you can not be taller then 6'6 to fly through you would be some what cramped in most combat jets. As for helicopters same thing 6'6 through I recall there was a vietnam heliotrope pilot who was 6'8. Any way if memory serves me in the books Ben was 6'1 and Roy was 6'6 and Max had glasses something you are not supposed to have for a combat pilot

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:26 pm
  

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batlchip wrote:
According to the military height limit you can not be taller then 6'6 to fly through you would be some what cramped in most combat jets. As for helicopters same thing 6'6 through I recall there was a vietnam heliotrope pilot who was 6'8. Any way if memory serves me in the books Ben was 6'1 and Roy was 6'6 and Max had glasses something you are not supposed to have for a combat pilot

The glasses they retconned as blue aviator sunglasses that he never took off.


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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:16 pm
  

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batlchip wrote:
According to the military height limit you can not be taller then 6'6 to fly through you would be some what cramped in most combat jets. As for helicopters same thing 6'6 through I recall there was a vietnam heliotrope pilot who was 6'8. Any way if memory serves me in the books Ben was 6'1 and Roy was 6'6 and Max had glasses something you are not supposed to have for a combat pilot

Robotech's Infopedia put Roy's height at 6'5", a reduction from his OSM height of 7'1".

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 Post subject: Re: Height restrictions
Unread postPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:21 pm
  

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