Marines sourcebook

[Kagashi]

This book is in serious need of revision. I question a number of the choices, especially the various IMAI mecha being made REF mecha. This despite the fact that there are STILL mecha that haven't been catalogued for the RPG (all of which would be in service at this point):

- Wolfe's fighter from the Eulogy flashback (and may even be a Veritech)
- Point K Fighter from Enter Marlene (which may or may not be Wolfe's fighter)
- Liberte Fighter from Outsiders
- VTOL Veritech Recce/ELINT (from Robotech Art 3, mentioned in The Sentinels scripts and made into the Delta Veritech by Jason/John Waltrip)
- YF-4/VF-4 Veritech, which would be a low-production model that would have traveled with the REF (Its in Tactics, why not the RPG?)
- VF-Jotunn Armor (again, its in Tactics, why not the RPG?)
- Prototype Cyclone (from Robotech Art 3) which should replace all the VR-020 series. The VR-010 series is superflous and is simply reinventing the wheel.
- The "Survival Bike" we see in various MOSPEADA episodes should be in this book as the precursor model to the MOSPEADAs.
- Colonel Wolfe's body armor from the Eulogy flashback
- The Alpha drones from The Secret Route
- The ships from SDC: Southern Cross other than the Tristars (they are all used by the REF since we know TS 85 had them).
- The "smaller" Ikazuchi-type ships labeled as the IZUM-10 series (Matt Willis even did renders of them for the uRRG).

There are numerous problems with the various other mecha such as the Golem, which immediately runs into the problem of being named the exact same as the GMP's APB-4 Golem Autonomous Patrol Battloid. In fact, the design of the Golem clearly evolved into both the semi-variable Jackal and transformable Condor. In fact, why bother with the Golem at all? Split the difference: make the shoulder packs, outboard leg pods and the forearm weapon/shields the equivalent of the Jotunn Armor, but for the Condor. In fact, the Condor needs to be made into a fully realized Veritech as was stated in the Wildstorm Invasion comics.

The Daniel and the Valiant simply don't belong. The latter, especially, because its far too reminiscent of the MegaZone 23 Part 1 mecha that are no longer canon for Robotech.

As others have said, The Sentinels races are a throwback and not in a good way. The Karbarrans that Tommy redesigned for Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles is what we should expect. They should be encountered only AFTER the Invid Invasion. The most believable way to deal with Perytonian "magic" is that it isn't magic at all: its nanotechnology/cybertechnology that is incredibly advanced (maybe even to the point the Perytonians don't fully understand it, but can replicate it). The Curse/Infernal War is not "raising the dead through necromancy", its nanites rebuilding the fighters to fight again. The Perytonians could still have "spells" in that they have technology that cannot be explained that produces "magical" effects (yes, even a short-range personal spacefold since we see the Tirolians have something similar inside their City-ships).

There is, quite simply, NO REASON for the REF to have found Tirol before the Invid Invasion (considering it happened literally the day after Zor Prime killed The Masters). There is also no reason for the REF to have fought the Invid prior to The Invid Invasion. To claim otherwise flies in the face of quite a bit of dialogue and totally upends the entire middle chapter of Robotech.

Its nice that the REF Destroids and Z-series Battlepods are back. The non-transformable Power Amplified Body Armor was good, though it should interface with CVR-3 only (and there is NO REASON for it to be issued to non-combatants. Why would non-combatants be trained in the use of infantry powered armor?).

The Tirolian weapons not only are STILL missing, but the "Bioroid Bazooka" from The Sentinels video isn't even listed.

There are still enemies for the REF to fight in deep space without making them Bioroids or Invid prior to the Invid attacking Earth. We hear tell of "Space Pirates". There would be around 1.8 million surviving Zentraedi warships after Force of Arms that are unaccounted for and may be potential enemies. The ship that is shown exploding in the Eulogy flashback video is supposedly one of the "enemies" encountered. Here's a wild idea: do these guys! Do rogue Zentraedi scattered throughout the galaxy. Do the crumbling remains of the Tirolian Empire, minus Bioroids. Hell, why not The Children of Zor that was proposed for the cockamamie Robotech: Academy Kickstarter?

That's all I can think of at the moment....

Wow, we could not be more in synch.

I would add:

The Tiger Destroid (which is canon in the Wildstorm Comics), replaced with a Monster III in LLA for the same scene, but since both sources are canon, nothing saying they both were not there covering the 15ths retreat.

Not sure if we need a copy and paste of character creation that we have in every other book.

Aliens:

- Garudans: Seems they lost their Sentinels psionic abilities in favor for the Hin. I guess thats okay, but there is greater character development with the old system using Rifts style psionics. Im okay wither way I guess. Most other Robotech psionic abilities has done away with ISP, so this fits.

- Karbarran: I like their write up, and I like their technology in the book as well. But they need to be careful of the "Teddy Bear" references, which Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles clearly retconned. I like their tech, which is an obvious throw back to the now decanonized Sentinels comics, but it is fun to see. We need to see their ship yards and more SHIPS in general. If there was one thing that IS canon about Karbarran's is, they make ships (thats basically L'Ron's only line to Hunter in Prelude). So show us more ships since you yanked the Spaceship book from under our feet.

- Perytonians: I like the use of PPE, since its a staple Palladium game mechanic (although we lost ISP with the Garudans....come on guys...pick a direction and go with it...other psionic abilities seem to not use ISP in Robotech either...should PPE even have a place in this game? Should we use something similar to the old Sentinels/HU1 magic system?)...HOWEVER, the spell selection is very dumb IMHO. In the world of Robotech, it would make more sense to use SPACE MAGIC from Rifts DB 13 and/or space magic from Aliens Unlimited (converted to MDC). Those magics are much more attuned to the TECHNOLOGICAL aspects of Robotech. Instead, we get a watered down MDC versions of magic from Palladium Fantasy. FREQUENCY JAMMING or NEGATE MECHANICS are nowhere in the list of spells the Perytonians would likely have developed to combat technological enemies. We have negate magic and dispel magic barriers, which can only be used to fight other Perytonians. The spell description of Negate Magic talks of Wards, Talismans, Amulets, Golems, and Zombies...NONE of which Perytonians can even do, nor any other being in the Robotech-verse we have seen yet. That's pretty stupid and a waste of print. And I guess every wizard gets every spell on the list from level 1?

- Praxians: I wish they had a few more martial arts aspects that translates into game mechanics, something similar to a Rifts Samurai. I found this write up, like the Sentinels one, mundane and easily forgettable. Needs more work. Give me a reason to pick a Praxian over just some human in a cyclone with the H2H Commando skill and jacked up on physical skills. Good job upgrading their tech to MDC levels though.

- Spherians: I like this write up good enough I rekkon. They can make their own laser rifles naturally, so it makes sense as to how a natural MDC creature can hurt other creatures of the same type. Otherwise, easily forgettable.

Tech:

- Love the idea of a non-transformable power armor suit.
- Good to see the Zentraedi battle pods back, with some balls to boot.
- The UEEF Destorids are a welcome sight.
- Tirolian Bioroid Pilot mentions getting a Trumvirate Invid Fighter. This is a throwback to Sentinels when they showed them defending Tirol before the UEEF came. This was in violation with the main show where they were produced on Earth as a last ditch effort to fight the humans against the ASC. This is Palladium's chance to fix this continuity error, and be in line with Harmony Gold by recognizing the Sentinels video is now decanonized anyway.

Invid:
-The Regent's suit is reminiscent of the old game and Sentinels art work...when Wild Storm and Harmony Gold clearly substituted it with an Invid Overlord in Prelude (and already presented in tSC book). Perhaps the Regent only used an Overlord when he fought Breetai and this older suit was used in the early days of the war? This needs to be fleshed out.

[Chris0013]

Its nice that the REF Destroids and Z-series Battlepods are back. The non-transformable Power Amplified Body Armor was good, though it should interface with CVR-3 only (and there is NO REASON for it to be issued to non-combatants. Why would non-combatants be trained in the use of infantry powered armor?).

For the simple reason that "non-combatants" can easily find themselves becoming combatants quickly during a war.

In the real world...after Boot Camp...Marines who are not 03-- MOSs go to Marine Combat Training for a month that is a quickee form of infantry training, then they go off to their MOS school.

in the Robotech world...would you like to be the non-combatant who gets put on a team due to his scientific acumen but cannot use mecha? Or the Comm guy in the Titan who is selected at the last minute because the Comm guy with the team going out gets killed in an artillery attack and there is nothing else to do but grab one of the comm team from the war room?


My idea on it for the fix would to be to make Cyclone Piloting part of the UEEF Marine Boot Camp and everyone gets it....but have the PA as what is stored for the non-combatants to put on if needed.

A question I do have though is are the different generations of CVR armor interchangeable?

[eliakon]

Its nice that the REF Destroids and Z-series Battlepods are back. The non-transformable Power Amplified Body Armor was good, though it should interface with CVR-3 only (and there is NO REASON for it to be issued to non-combatants. Why would non-combatants be trained in the use of infantry powered armor?).

For the simple reason that "non-combatants" can easily find themselves becoming combatants quickly during a war.

In the real world...after Boot Camp...Marines who are not 03-- MOSs go to Marine Combat Training for a month that is a quickee form of infantry training, then they go off to their MOS school.

in the Robotech world...would you like to be the non-combatant who gets put on a team due to his scientific acumen but cannot use mecha? Or the Comm guy in the Titan who is selected at the last minute because the Comm guy with the team going out gets killed in an artillery attack and there is nothing else to do but grab one of the comm team from the war room?


My idea on it for the fix would to be to make Cyclone Piloting part of the UEEF Marine Boot Camp and everyone gets it....but have the PA as what is stored for the non-combatants to put on if needed.

A question I do have though is are the different generations of CVR armor interchangeable?

^THIS^
The idea that you will not let people in a combat zone that are of the wrong 'class' have proper gear to do the job is one of the biggest gripes I have with most military games.
At least here they are saying that you get something.

[colwebbsfmc]

I have to chime in here and say that the whole Chief Sergeant/Master Chief Sergeant thing smacks of one of two things:

1) -a Francophone writing the enlisted ranks. Sergeant-Chef is a thing in the French military, and the culinary use of the word is an intentional borrow from the military sense of "chef" - google Brigade de Cuisine for more info.

2) - A Halo fanboy who really REALLY wants a UEEF Marine character he can call "Master Chief."

Either way, if Breetai gets the idea to form the UEEFMC from studying USMC traditions and lore, he's not going to miss the significance of the Gunny, the Master Gunny and the Sergeant Major to the very core of Marine Corps history. The writeup even mentions a Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps to assist the Commandant, but there is no Sergeant Major rank on the chart...

To me, this is a must-fix. It's not a pedantic piece of nomenclature. As far as any US Marine or student of US Marines will tell you - the Gunnery Sergeant is integral to Marine Corps lore, both fact and fiction. Platoon Sergeant won't cut it. Sergeant First Class won't cut it. Anything that smacks of Air Force or Navy won't cut it. Gotta be a Gunny.

Also - an example Infantry company wouldn't go amiss here. Or even an expeditionary battalion. What makes up a UEEF rifle squad? Is it three fire teams plus a squad leader? What makes up a rifle company? How many companies to a battalion? Where do the support elements attach, if any?

Stuff like that.

[Chris0013]

I have to chime in here and say that the whole Chief Sergeant/Master Chief Sergeant thing smacks of one of two things:

1) -a Francophone writing the enlisted ranks. Sergeant-Chef is a thing in the French military, and the culinary use of the word is an intentional borrow from the military sense of "chef" - google Brigade de Cuisine for more info.

2) - A Halo fanboy who really REALLY wants a UEEF Marine character he can call "Master Chief."

Either way, if Breetai gets the idea to form the UEEFMC from studying USMC traditions and lore, he's not going to miss the significance of the Gunny, the Master Gunny and the Sergeant Major to the very core of Marine Corps history. The writeup even mentions a Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps to assist the Commandant, but there is no Sergeant Major rank on the chart...

To me, this is a must-fix. It's not a pedantic piece of nomenclature. As far as any US Marine or student of US Marines will tell you - the Gunnery Sergeant is integral to Marine Corps lore, both fact and fiction. Platoon Sergeant won't cut it. Sergeant First Class won't cut it. Anything that smacks of Air Force or Navy won't cut it. Gotta be a Gunny.

Also - an example Infantry company wouldn't go amiss here. Or even an expeditionary battalion. What makes up a UEEF rifle squad? Is it three fire teams plus a squad leader? What makes up a rifle company? How many companies to a battalion? Where do the support elements attach, if any?

Stuff like that.

Agree on Gunny.

It does mention squad size under the Archon.....3 fire teams of 4 and a squad leader for 13

[colwebbsfmc]

I can even see Breetai officially announcing the formation of the UEEFMC on 10 November.

Hell, I've been playing with the idea of SDF-3 being used as the liberty port for all the other vessels in the Expeditionary Force during the search for Tirol. Hearing that Breetai has gotten into USMC history and is intentionally drawing from it I thing I will include a Tunn Tavern as one of the locations in SDF-3's R&R area. The old Palladium deckplans for SDF-3 show restaurants and PXs, and I think that makes a lot of sense given a ship where space isn't at such a premium as a real-world craft, and the very real possibility that the mission could take years. The mental well-being of the members of the UEEF will depend on their ability to wind down in a recreational atmosphere, which could be accomplished by having a promenade aboard SDF-3 to fulfill the role of Macross City provided for the military personnel aboard SDF-1. A microcosm of Human civilization - and while we're at it, Dr. Lang and other leaders might have also felt that SDF-3 and the UEEF might have a tertiary function as a colonizing force should the unthinkable occur in their absence. Otherwise why allow dependents and civilians like Harry Penn, young Scott Bernard or Sue Graham aboard? (OK, that's novel and Sentinels OVA canon, but still...)

I can totally see Breetai and many Zentraedi buying into a Terran warrior culture. By that point, they are all aware that their own culture (or lack thereof) was completely manufactured by the Masters much as the Zentraedi themselves were. With the Malcontent Uprisings showing what happens when a warrior race tries to settle down, of course a culture that puts a premium of martial prowess and yet exists alongside civilian endeavors would be something of a natural fit/safety valve for the Zentraedi themselves. It would be a culture they chose to be a part of, rather than one that was pressed upon them in their genetic programming. The Imperative (if your head canon swings that way) would give way to "Semper Fidelis" and "Can do!" as a constructive outlet for their warrior spirit. The attitude of "every Marine a rifleman" would also seem to appeal to the Zentraedi, along with the rigorous physical requirements of Marine training.

I'll admit- when I first read that, I thought of it as a contrivance to explain the presence of a Marine Corps. Thing is, the more I think about it, the more Breetai is filling a hole in his own need for a sense of purpose, and that of his remaining soldiers. What malcontents and borderline malcontents ended up joining or being sentenced to service would find that sense of purpose as well. They would also find micronians they could respect- ones with the courage and fighting spirit of the Zentraedi. It might even appeal to them that the humans who chose to be US Marines (for the most part) enlisted of their own free will - chose the difficult path of the warrior and excelled at it. I can see the Zentraedi soaking up Marine Corps culture and history like sponges, claiming as their own another race's warrior ethos to replace the one forced on them by the Masters. It may be trading one alien identity for an even more alien one, but by Zor it's their culture, their choice, their Corps.

T'Sen-per Fi?

[gaby]

Do you think after the Marines they will do a book on the Aliens?
Maybe add a new Villain race?

[Lt Gargoyle]

Do you think after the Marines they will do a book on the Aliens?
Maybe add a new Villain race?

I think after marines they will likely do something for the fleet. We could only hope to get some of the things we desire such as a few of those elusive things. But I would not count on seeing it for a long time.

[Chris0013]

Do you think after the Marines they will do a book on the Aliens?
Maybe add a new Villain race?

I think after marines they will likely do something for the fleet. We could only hope to get some of the things we desire such as a few of those elusive things. But I would not count on seeing it for a long time.

This is what I would like to see....adding in the things Rabid mentioned are still missing

I would also add in the composition and mission of Wolfe's fleet that returned to Earth, what mecha they brought back, andaybe some onfo on other factory satellites

As well as who these so called space pirates are

[Colonel Wolfe]

I can even see Breetai officially announcing the formation of the UEEFMC on 10 November.

Hell, I've been playing with the idea of SDF-3 being used as the liberty port for all the other vessels in the Expeditionary Force during the search for Tirol. Hearing that Breetai has gotten into USMC history and is intentionally drawing from it I thing I will include a Tunn Tavern as one of the locations in SDF-3's R&R area. The old Palladium deckplans for SDF-3 show restaurants and PXs, and I think that makes a lot of sense given a ship where space isn't at such a premium as a real-world craft, and the very real possibility that the mission could take years. The mental well-being of the members of the UEEF will depend on their ability to wind down in a recreational atmosphere, which could be accomplished by having a promenade aboard SDF-3 to fulfill the role of Macross City provided for the military personnel aboard SDF-1. A microcosm of Human civilization - and while we're at it, Dr. Lang and other leaders might have also felt that SDF-3 and the UEEF might have a tertiary function as a colonizing force should the unthinkable occur in their absence. Otherwise why allow dependents and civilians like Harry Penn, young Scott Bernard or Sue Graham aboard? (OK, that's novel and Sentinels OVA canon, but still...)

I can totally see Breetai and many Zentraedi buying into a Terran warrior culture. By that point, they are all aware that their own culture (or lack thereof) was completely manufactured by the Masters much as the Zentraedi themselves were. With the Malcontent Uprisings showing what happens when a warrior race tries to settle down, of course a culture that puts a premium of martial prowess and yet exists alongside civilian endeavors would be something of a natural fit/safety valve for the Zentraedi themselves. It would be a culture they chose to be a part of, rather than one that was pressed upon them in their genetic programming. The Imperative (if your head canon swings that way) would give way to "Semper Fidelis" and "Can do!" as a constructive outlet for their warrior spirit. The attitude of "every Marine a rifleman" would also seem to appeal to the Zentraedi, along with the rigorous physical requirements of Marine training.

I'll admit- when I first read that, I thought of it as a contrivance to explain the presence of a Marine Corps. Thing is, the more I think about it, the more Breetai is filling a hole in his own need for a sense of purpose, and that of his remaining soldiers. What malcontents and borderline malcontents ended up joining or being sentenced to service would find that sense of purpose as well. They would also find micronians they could respect- ones with the courage and fighting spirit of the Zentraedi. It might even appeal to them that the humans who chose to be US Marines (for the most part) enlisted of their own free will - chose the difficult path of the warrior and excelled at it. I can see the Zentraedi soaking up Marine Corps culture and history like sponges, claiming as their own another race's warrior ethos to replace the one forced on them by the Masters. It may be trading one alien identity for an even more alien one, but by Zor it's their culture, their choice, their Corps.

T'Sen-per Fi?

This works better than whats written in the book. Whats in the book is written as a simple contrivance to use the word "Marine" in a setting where you are in space...

[colwebbsfmc]

This works better than whats written in the book. Whats in the book is written as a simple contrivance to use the word "Marine" in a setting where you are in space...

Well, Kevin and company can consider this free and available for adaptation into the book. Hell, if they want me to flesh it out, I'd be happy to do it for free just to make the book better.

Like I said, on the surface it looks like they were stretching, but then I started to think about the psyche of the Zentraedi, a race built for a purpose that no longer had that purpose. They needed a focus, and how better to gain their focus and loyalty than to show them an alternate, and worthy way to remain warriors while serving a greater good of their own will?

[mech798]

Do you think after the Marines they will do a book on the Aliens?
Maybe add a new Villain race?

I think after marines they will likely do something for the fleet. We could only hope to get some of the things we desire such as a few of those elusive things. But I would not count on seeing it for a long time.

Givn the wait for this book I wouldn't hold your breath. If this is HG's going, they are... dumb. This is the 30th anniversary of Robotech. if you have any interest, whatsoever, in the IP, this is when you push everything out to take advantage of that. The fact that HG didn't, says very bad things about their opinion and abilities regarding the IP as a whole.

[colwebbsfmc]

If this is HG's going, they are... dumb. This is the 30th anniversary of Robotech. if you have any interest, whatsoever, in the IP, this is when you push everything out to take advantage of that. The fact that HG didn't, says very bad things about their opinion and abilities regarding the IP as a whole.

Has anyone else noticed Robotech.com is now basically a placeholder page?

[mech798]

If this is HG's going, they are... dumb. This is the 30th anniversary of Robotech. if you have any interest, whatsoever, in the IP, this is when you push everything out to take advantage of that. The fact that HG didn't, says very bad things about their opinion and abilities regarding the IP as a whole.

Has anyone else noticed Robotech.com is now basically a placeholder page?

Yeah. It links to a single article that for anyone with any understanding of the business at all, means absolutely nothing. Studios option properties and write scripts all the time. Until you see production start, it is vaporware- the fact that they've abandoned every other aspect of the page for that... forums, infopedia, the whole thing down, to my mind is getting pretty close to saying: this is a dead IP.

[Lt Gargoyle]

If this is HG's going, they are... dumb. This is the 30th anniversary of Robotech. if you have any interest, whatsoever, in the IP, this is when you push everything out to take advantage of that. The fact that HG didn't, says very bad things about their opinion and abilities regarding the IP as a whole.

Has anyone else noticed Robotech.com is now basically a placeholder page?

I have noticed this too.


mech798 - I am not gonna hold my breath

[ShadowLogan]

Its nice that the REF Destroids and Z-series Battlepods are back. The non-transformable Power Amplified Body Armor was good, though it should interface with CVR-3 only (and there is NO REASON for it to be issued to non-combatants. Why would non-combatants be trained in the use of infantry powered armor?).

re: Non-combatants.

#1. If the US Marine Corps is the model they are emulating then it makes sense if they are non-Combat Marines that they would be able to function to some level in combat as Chris0013 said. That level for the UEEF Marines may include basic proficiency requirements that the USMC doesn't have and doesn't due to available technology (like use of PABA/PA) but still comes down to being able to function in an infantry role.

#2. nt PABA may have non-combat roles assigned to it where the suit's abilities can/are be utilized (construction, maintenance, firefighting, search & rescue, etc). Proficiency with the hardware in this role may be no different than use in combat role for most areas I would think. That would allow non-combatants to use the hardware if they are brought into a combat zone. Though specific PABA designed for those roles might also exist (ex VR-041M, Unicron CSAR variants exist)

#2a. Look at the UEDF-ASC and it's nt-PA use with non-combat roles, and the fact non-combatants can take the necessary skills to operate those nt-PA. Though IIRC most would skill wise can qualify as combatants IMHO (HTH, WP training) if in the UEDF military. Which main book UEEF OCC/MOS would emulate to IIRC.

#3. If non-combatants are being brought into the field of combat, regular body armor may not be up to the task of providing adequate protection for these specialists and the UEEF is providing better protection in an attempt to better protect their investment in these soliders/marines given the resources spent training them. (even if not a solider/marine this may apply, maybe even doubly)

Do you think after the Marines they will do a book on the Aliens?
Maybe add a new Villain race?

Unlikely w/o HG's blessing for new villan race(s) and them appearing/derived in RT material or OSM material (Sentienls DVD Extras did include a few aliens that haven't been touched yet IINM).

This is certainly a chance for them to introduce new aliens/villans in the mix that aren't "World Power", but more "regional power" in level like the Space Pirates (likely multiple independent groups so what gets covered in the RPG doesn't have to be the extent of the faction), Diciples of Zor, Children of Zor (Sentinels extras, not just Academy), maybe even other Zentreadi evolutionary forks (Gloval says the Zentreadi evolved into their current form, so their could be other evolutionary branches out there depending on how accurate the Zent. Records prove to be about contact w/micronian culture).

Likely the only real way to do these new aliens would be via a campaign module (1E had several, and they tended to include new classes, hardware, and factions) instead of something like a dedicated Source Book (like we've been getting). How HG would handle such material as opposed to a dedicated SB I'm not sure, they might find it less attractive, more attractive, or no different.

[Tiree]

Well - all I can say is this:

Jason Marker wrote a version of UEEF Marines that Tommy Yune was proud of before he submitted the work. Jason was in communication with Harmony Gold from the beginning, even with his vision going forward. (IIRC my conversation with Jason during the production of the book.)

Kevin has made multiple comments that Jason Marker's writing is top notch, and didn't require much in the way of edits.

Jason turned in his manuscript, and was fired. (Jason's words not mine)

Kevin has stated that Harmony Gold turned their nose up at the Manuscript (My words not his)

Kevin then hired Irvin Jackson to write a new manuscript.

Kevin has stated that Irvin is also a top notch writer, and doesn't require much in the way of edits.

And from everything I have seen, the RAW version of Irvin Jackson's version of UEEF Marines is a quick edited version of the manuscript. (which I could be wrong on).

I have no faith that this book will be edited in any way shape or form from commentary by Fans.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Well - all I can say is this:

Jason Marker wrote a version of UEEF Marines that Tommy Yune was proud of before he submitted the work. Jason was in communication with Harmony Gold from the beginning, even with his vision going forward. (IIRC my conversation with Jason during the production of the book.)

Kevin has made multiple comments that Jason Marker's writing is top notch, and didn't require much in the way of edits.

Jason turned in his manuscript, and was fired. (Jason's words not mine)

Kevin has stated that Harmony Gold turned their nose up at the Manuscript (My words not his)

Kevin then hired Irvin Jackson to write a new manuscript.

Kevin has stated that Irvin is also a top notch writer, and doesn't require much in the way of edits.

And from everything I have seen, the RAW version of Irvin Jackson's version of UEEF Marines is a quick edited version of the manuscript. (which I could be wrong on).

I have no faith that this book will be edited in any way shape or form from commentary by Fans.

Now that I have had a chance to read the book, I like most of it. And that does mean i have some issues with some of it. But something I would like to see added would be the Marines OCC and MOS s in the book as written in pre 21st mars division attack form, but I'd like to see them done in a after that as well.

[ShadowLogan]

I have no faith that this book will be edited in any way shape or form from commentary by Fans.

You are probably right. Per the June4th Press Release, the manuscript is already at HG for approval and artwork is being assigned. So unless HG rejects material...

[eliakon]

I have no faith that this book will be edited in any way shape or form from commentary by Fans.

You are probably right. Per the June4th Press Release, the manuscript is already at HG for approval and artwork is being assigned. So unless HG rejects material...

I sincerely hope that they are not so foolish as to do any sort of fan sourced editing
I want an actual book, not a forum full of fans fighting flame wars over who's headcanon is better.
I have read the threads here by 'fans' It seems to me that every time it descends into arguments about who is more correct than the actual published materials or why this source should be taken over that source (both canon sources), or what particular weight/spin should be given to what.

We have enough delays and cancelations here with out turning every project into flamed vapor ware.

[glitterboy2098]

i'm hoping that the timeline of the war with the regent matches up to the details indicated in the prelude comics.. i really don;t want a ton of flame wars over when it happened. (for the record, according to prelude, the defeat of the Regent was around 2040ish, and the defeat of edwards was not much later. this, combined with comments in the show about the UEEF not knowing about invid in 2031ish whrn the invid arrived on earth, and the prelude comments about not knowing much about the regent in the late 2030's) suggests the war of the UEEF against the regent kicked off in a simialr timeframe as the invid invading earth..

and we know from the RPG's fluff of the bioroid interceptor that the UEEF was fighting a war well before that, suggesting they were fighting zentreadi remenants and master's forces in the empire prior to ever meeting the invid.

[tobefrnk]

i'm hoping that the timeline of the war with the regent matches up to the details indicated in the prelude comics.. i really don;t want a ton of flame wars over when it happened. (for the record, according to prelude, the defeat of the Regent was around 2040ish, and the defeat of edwards was not much later. this, combined with comments in the show about the UEEF not knowing about invid in 2031ish whrn the invid arrived on earth, and the prelude comments about not knowing much about the regent in the late 2030's) suggests the war of the UEEF against the regent kicked off in a simialr timeframe as the invid invading earth..

and we know from the RPG's fluff of the bioroid interceptor that the UEEF was fighting a war well before that, suggesting they were fighting zentreadi remenants and master's forces in the empire prior to ever meeting the invid.

Of course the RPG also provides context that the UEEF was in full engagement with Invid forces by 2025 (Condor text), so there's timelines for everyone!

[Chris]

I'm still not convinced that a whole separate Marine branch is necessary in Robotech. I understand it's popular in SF due to things like Aliens and 40k, but I don't see why UEDF/UEEF couldn't just have the Zentraedi, destroid pilots, and infantry all just a member of general umbrella UEEF. Adding the term Marines to Robotech seems like just an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the word, which I guess I can't fault as business practice...

In a spin off campaign I'm running (using a different rule set (Fuzion) ) I did away with the Marines as a separate branch within the 'Protagonist Nation' and rolled them into the Army. They still do the same general thing, planetary assault, station and ship boarding and security. But instead of 'Marine' they are called Army Special Landing Forces.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I'm still not convinced that a whole separate Marine branch is necessary in Robotech. I understand it's popular in SF due to things like Aliens and 40k, but I don't see why UEDF/UEEF couldn't just have the Zentraedi, destroid pilots, and infantry all just a member of general umbrella UEEF. Adding the term Marines to Robotech seems like just an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the word, which I guess I can't fault as business practice...

In a spin off campaign I'm running (using a different rule set (Fuzion) ) I did away with the Marines as a separate branch within the 'Protagonist Nation' and rolled them into the Army. They still do the same general thing, planetary assault, station and ship boarding and security. But instead of 'Marine' they are called Army Special Landing Forces.

I do not see an issue with the marines being a separate branch as they are presented. it does follow the current U.S. standard military practice where the Marines work with the Navy. And i see the UEEF as a Black sea navy.

[eliakon]

i'm hoping that the timeline of the war with the regent matches up to the details indicated in the prelude comics.. i really don;t want a ton of flame wars over when it happened. (for the record, according to prelude, the defeat of the Regent was around 2040ish, and the defeat of edwards was not much later. this, combined with comments in the show about the UEEF not knowing about invid in 2031ish whrn the invid arrived on earth, and the prelude comments about not knowing much about the regent in the late 2030's) suggests the war of the UEEF against the regent kicked off in a simialr timeframe as the invid invading earth..

and we know from the RPG's fluff of the bioroid interceptor that the UEEF was fighting a war well before that, suggesting they were fighting zentreadi remenants and master's forces in the empire prior to ever meeting the invid.

Of course the RPG also provides context that the UEEF was in full engagement with Invid forces by 2025 (Condor text), so there's timelines for everyone!

I sense much wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey shenanigans going on....

[glitterboy2098]

well that's specifically for the 10th mars, so maybe the UEEF encountered an invid world early, but the war proper didn't start till much later?

that would preserve the "didn't know much of anything about the invid" aspect despite being a decade before the 10th mars goes to earth ignorant about how the invid operate and what they are..

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Now that I've had a chance to really look the book over more carefully, I want to go back to the REF Destroids for a moment. I can put it no plainer than Palladium has consistently NOT given them the proper designations, and this book is no different. Why in the name of God Irvin Jackson decided to append the The Macross Saga names onto the REF Destroids is beyond me because there is no reason for it. For once, they should be most of the Matchbox names instead. The Tomahawk II is from Macross II and should NOT be used as a name in Robotech as it just further muddies the already confusing waters.

REF Destroids
MBR-05: Excaliber
ADR-05: Raider
SDR-05: Shark
MBR-08: Gladiator
HWR-02: Thundercracker (nee MAC III)

I would point out the lineart for the Raider shows two versions, one of which is most certainly armed with a slug-throwing tri-barreled gatling of some kind because it uses the same kinds of ammo storage boxes as the Defender. There should be a second option for weapons loadout for the Raider.

There is, quite simply, no way the missiles loaded on the Shark are 430mm. That would make the missile pods themselves +2m at their widest point since the pods are shown to hold 10 missiles (assumed 1 set of reloads each). The missiles in question in the lineart might be 30cm wide, and that is pushing it. Otherwise, the Shark needs to be significantly larger to accommodate such ordnance, which means you have to increase the Excaliber and Raider as well, which completely invalidates the reason for making smaller mecha (which has a real-world practical effect in that it reduces the silhouette of such a vehicle).

I noticed the MAC III still does not include the missiles in the arms. The lineart clearly shows exhaust ports for missile pods both above and below the particle beam cannon at the rear. The lineart seems to show them using the same missiles as the Shark.

Now, about the Zentraedi Battlepods....umm, why would they be listed as ZBRs? They're not Robots, they're Pods. ZBP, not ZBR. Furthermore, this would have been an excellent opportunity to introduce Artillery and Recon variants of the Lotzor Z-1, maybe even a Heavy Combat "wink & nod" version with the Relaug's Officer Pods' arms.........

[ShadowLogan]

There is, quite simply, no way the missiles loaded on the Shark are 430mm. That would make the missile pods themselves +2m at their widest point since the pods are shown to hold 10 missiles (assumed 1 set of reloads each).

Assuming everything is a circle and not an ellipse for the bins and the missiles.
At 2meters diameter it would have an area of 3.14m^2 for the bins.

A single missile with 430mm (0.43m) diameter has an area of PI x (0.43/2)^2 = 0.15m^2.

By Area you could fit approx 20 missiles in a bin 2meters in diameter. IINM the diameter of the pods has to be somewhere between 1 and 2 meters (something like 1.3meter diameter). Which is certainly possible using the 1E stated size (so unless 2E changed the size) of 6.1m overall.

noticed the MAC III still does not include the missiles in the arms. The lineart clearly shows exhaust ports for missile pods both above and below the particle beam cannon at the rear. The lineart seems to show them using the same missiles as the Shark.

Given the rear facing direction they could be manuevering thrusters for space use, or more likely thermal exhaust to help keep the cannons cool. I'm not seeing anything that establishes there are missiles on the arms (at least looking at the line art in 1E books). What missiles 1E lineart establishes existing seem to come from the torso of the mecha, not the arms and there is no exhaust port for them visible for that launcher.

Now, about the Zentraedi Battlepods....umm, why would they be listed as ZBRs? They're not Robots, they're Pods. ZBP, not ZBR. Furthermore, this would have been an excellent opportunity to introduce Artillery and Recon variants of the Lotzor Z-1, maybe even a Heavy Combat "wink & nod" version with the Relaug's Officer Pods' arms.........

What's the difference between it beign classified as a Robot or a Pod? Pods are basically Robots, granted a different form from human 'bots, but they are still bots. It just seems like the UEEF decieded to classify them instead of giving them a special classification.

Unless the 2E has changed from 1E, political pressure may have prevented such upgrades from occurring.

[glitterboy2098]

Destroids are classified as robots. that's what the "R" in the MBR ADR, HWR, etc represents. if they were human designed, it would make sense the classification system would use human terminology instead of the adhoc classification used for an enemy mecha.

[Protoculture]

Now, about the Zentraedi Battlepods....umm, why would they be listed as ZBRs? They're not Robots, they're Pods. ZBP, not ZBR. Furthermore, this would have been an excellent opportunity to introduce Artillery and Recon variants of the Lotzor Z-1, maybe even a Heavy Combat "wink & nod" version with the Relaug's Officer Pods' arms.........

Now I'm piqued .... the Z1 and Z2 series Battlepods in the Marine RAW manuscript are being referred as UEEF designed mechas as per 1st Ed RT RPG or as enemy mechas as per uRRG?

[glitterboy2098]

personally hoping human designed but sized for full sized zents.. thats pretty much what they were supposed to be in the sentinels film (visual replacements for the macross designs), and it would make sense that humanity designed new, tougher mecha for their full sized zent auxillaries

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

personally hoping human designed but sized for full sized zents.. thats pretty much what they were supposed to be in the sentinels film (visual replacements for the macross designs), and it would make sense that humanity designed new, tougher mecha for their full sized zent auxillaries

They were most certainly not for full-sized Zentraedi as there were none on the SDF-03 mission in The Sentinels video....

[glitterboy2098]

except that those pods only appear as "enemy mecha" in said video, during the training simulation.

and we never actually see any ship other than the SDF-3 during said video. we get no details of the fleet that's going with it or ANY details of what is involved in the mission.

that's what happens when you make a video out of the scraps of an incomplete pilot episode of a series that was never picked up.

[Protoculture]

personally hoping human designed but sized for full sized zents.. thats pretty much what they were supposed to be in the sentinels film (visual replacements for the macross designs), and it would make sense that humanity designed new, tougher mecha for their full sized zent auxillaries

They were most certainly not for full-sized Zentraedi as there were none on the SDF-03 mission in The Sentinels video....

The question still stands though, are the Z1 and Z2 battlepod series manufactured exclusively by UEEF as per 1st Ed RT RPG, or they were enemy mecha units as per uRRG? Also, does the Marines sourcebook preview still retain uRRG`s designation such as Lotzor for Z1 TBP and Relaug for Z2 OBP?

[jedi078]

The question still stands though, are the Z1 and Z2 battlepod series manufactured exclusively by UEEF as per 1st Ed RT RPG, or they were enemy mecha units as per uRRG? Also, does the Marines sourcebook preview still retain uRRG`s designation such as Lotzor for Z1 TBP and Relaug for Z2 OBP?

The route I took long before the 2E RPG came out was that The Robotech Factory had a large number of 2nd generation Battle Pods and Officer pods on board. These mecha were used by full size Zents allied with the RDF during the malcontent uprisings because the malcontents did not have any of these mecha and it help prevent blue on blue engagements. The RDF/REF then made the Z1 and Z2 battle pods for micronized pilots to look just like the 2nd gen pods.

As for the Destroids in the Marines source book I'm going to stay with the names given to them in the Sentinels book, and yeah gonna have to change the missile size on the Shark. As RSCF pointed out the Raider does have ammo bins on the arms. In my of 2E stats of the Sentinels destriods the Raider's 3rd barrel was a 35mm gun that fired air burst munitions.

[Kagashi]

The question still stands though, are the Z1 and Z2 battlepod series manufactured exclusively by UEEF as per 1st Ed RT RPG, or they were enemy mecha units as per uRRG? Also, does the Marines sourcebook preview still retain uRRG`s designation such as Lotzor for Z1 TBP and Relaug for Z2 OBP?

The route I took long before the 2E RPG came out was that The Robotech Factory had a large number of 2nd generation Battle Pods and Officer pods on board. These mecha were used by full size Zents allied with the RDF during the malcontent uprisings because the malcontents did not have any of these mecha and it help prevent blue on blue engagements. The RDF/REF then made the Z1 and Z2 battle pods for micronized pilots to look just like the 2nd gen pods.

As for the Destroids in the Marines source book I'm going to stay with the names given to them in the Sentinels book, and yeah gonna have to change the missile size on the Shark. As RSCF pointed out the Raider does have ammo bins on the arms. In my of 2E stats of the Sentinels destriods the Raider's 3rd barrel was a 35mm gun that fired air burst munitions.

Raider: Kinetic weapons for sure. Makes sense too, cause it would have come out around the time of the badger, weasel, and wolverine small arms, at a time when energy weapons were still under development, yet somewhat utilized. That means use of MD kinetics had to still fill the gap.

Battle Pods: I follow the camp of them being REF/UEEF designs. I like this because it gives the micronized zentraedi characters something else to pick from other than the Bioroid Interceptor. It can be explained as to why they were in Lang's simulation (in the now decanonized Sentinels video) as being unproduced Zentraedi designs found in Space Station Liberty's data banks, and then just modified (for micronized folks) by the UEEF. Seeing that the video IS decanonized, Palladium can make their origin whatever they want, assuming Tommy approves it for print.

[Chris0013]

personally hoping human designed but sized for full sized zents.. thats pretty much what they were supposed to be in the sentinels film (visual replacements for the macross designs), and it would make sense that humanity designed new, tougher mecha for their full sized zent auxillaries

They were most certainly not for full-sized Zentraedi as there were none on the SDF-03 mission in The Sentinels video....

The question still stands though, are the Z1 and Z2 battlepod series manufactured exclusively by UEEF as per 1st Ed RT RPG, or they were enemy mecha units as per uRRG? Also, does the Marines sourcebook preview still retain uRRG`s designation such as Lotzor for Z1 TBP and Relaug for Z2 OBP?

In the raw edition...they are human designed mecha for micronized Zentraedi. The designations are ZBR-01 mkII for the Battlepod and ZBR-02 mkII for the Officers Pod. ZBR appears to be Zentaedi Battle Robot. Both are flight capable in atmosphere and look to have a helicopter gunship type of flight/maneuverability capability.

The Zentraedi of the UEEF were all micronized.

[glitterboy2098]

except that "all micronized" conflicts with the fluff of the bioroid interceptor.. which states that the zents of the UEEF were still using their fighterpods, PA's and battlepods until the supplies ran low, and the UEEF "squeezing them into Alpha's and beta's" as a result.

it also goes on to say that Breetai was put in charge of making a "Zentreadi specific mecha".. which after tyrol fell and tyrolians joined the UEEF, was expanded to include them, resulting in the bioroid interceptor.

so the evidence from the RPG is clear.. zentreadi were still using their original mecha for a long time (and thus were full sized), and then when they ran low they micronized, were retrained for human mecha.. and then the UEEF invested in a micronian piloted zent/tyrolian based mecha.

[Tiree]

so the evidence from the RPG is clear.. zentreadi were still using their original mecha for a long time (and thus were full sized), and then when they ran low they micronized, were retrained for human mecha.. and then the UEEF invested in a micronian piloted zent/tyrolian based mecha.

For some reason, I don't recall this in the RPG. Yes, I do recognize that they were using their old Mecha. But it does not mean that the control system wasn't converted for Micronians.

I know that's what I would do, along with build in a Reinforced Pilots compartment.

[glitterboy2098]

it's in the opening paragraphs of the bioroid interceptor description.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Well, IJ seems to not be able to research the books he is writing, in the REF-Battle pods he says the Zentradi's who pilot them are 50ft (15.2m)... The Zent infantryman is 8-10M tall in the RPG.
also the Section in the new books says ALL zents in the pioneer mission were micronized. if that line remains, the Fluff text on the Bioroid interceptor is over-ruled by the text in newest book.

[Chronicler]

Well, IJ seems to not be able to research the books he is writing, in the REF-Battle pods he says the Zentradi's who pilot them are 50ft (15.2m)... The Zent infantryman is 8-10M tall in the RPG.
also the Section in the new books says ALL zents in the pioneer mission were micronized. if that line remains, the Fluff text on the Bioroid interceptor is over-ruled by the text in newest book.

I'm starting to think we should be writing the books at this point. All things considered you guy's know what you are doing. Or at least have the writers consult you guys or even Seto (If he wants too).

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm starting to think we should be writing the books at this point. All things considered you guy's know what you are doing. Or at least have the writers consult you guys or even Seto (If he wants too).

Wow... I've heard a little about the state of the pre-release Marines book, but it must be a real train wreck if that's a proposed fix.

I and my fellow translators out here have offered to help with research and/or writing in the past, but we never did receive a response from Palladium. Now that they're outside the bounds of "official Robotech" and swinging blind, I don't think any fan experts would be of much help unless it's just checking new material for consistency against previous books.

If they ask, we'll help, but I doubt we'll see anything from 'em.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Well, IJ seems to not be able to research the books he is writing, in the REF-Battle pods he says the Zentradi's who pilot them are 50ft (15.2m)... The Zent infantryman is 8-10M tall in the RPG.
also the Section in the new books says ALL zents in the pioneer mission were micronized. if that line remains, the Fluff text on the Bioroid interceptor is over-ruled by the text in newest book.

I think you are misreading the paragraph which i have right here for all to see. it says the 50 foot warriors used poorly made mecha. a template for battlepods were in the factory satellite that they used to blend two technologies to make the new Zentraedi mecha for the UEEF.

RAW BOOK - While quite a few Zentraedi volunteered for service in the UEEF infantry, combat outside of their mecha was not something most of them are accustomed to, and many of the Zentraedi survivors had extensive experience and training in the use of various Battlepods that had served them and their masters for centuries. Also the basic Zentraedi Battlepod template was something the captured Robotech Factory Satellite, renamed Space Station Liberty, had in abundance, making it far cheaper to mass produce.
The problem was that the old Battlepods were designed by the Robotech Masters, who considered the Zentraedi disposable assests. The mecha were well armed and powerful, but thin-skinned, and pilots who were shot had little hope of surviving. They were also made for 50 foot (15.2m) tall giants , and all Zentraedi on the Pioneer Mission had been “Micronized” down to human size.
A new series of battlepods was in order. Blending Zentraedi and Destroid technology would lead to the Z-series Destroids, consisting of a new Tactical Battlepod and a new officer’s Battlepod for aces and high-ranking combat officers. These mecha were armored, carried just as potent a range of weapons and also incorporated usable arms and hands, giving them some of the equivalent abilities of the old Zentraedi power armor combined with the Battlepod.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I think you are misreading the paragraph which i have right here for all to see. it says the 50 foot warriors used poorly made mecha. a template for battlepods were in the factory satellite that they used to blend two technologies to make the new Zentraedi mecha for the UEEF.

Sadly, the fact remains the Zentraedi Warriors are not 50ft tall. They are, at most about 30 feet tall. While some Zentraedi would be over 13m tall (Breetai, Dolza), they're not mecha operators nor are we shown mecha they could squeeze into.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I think you are misreading the paragraph which i have right here for all to see. it says the 50 foot warriors used poorly made mecha. a template for battlepods were in the factory satellite that they used to blend two technologies to make the new Zentraedi mecha for the UEEF.

Sadly, the fact remains the Zentraedi Warriors are not 50ft tall. They are, at most about 30 feet tall. While some Zentraedi would be over 13m tall (Breetai, Dolza), they're not mecha operators nor are we shown mecha they could squeeze into.

I think its a hold over from the Macross show When Roy tell Rick that the Zentraedi are 50' tall.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Okay,

another biggie that I came across that is hard to swallow is the GMU listed because it appears to completely and totally violate the actual finished artwork for the GMU. The size that is listed in this book is based on the Novelizations/Comics and is many times larger than even that listed in the 1st Edition Sentinels RPG. The finalized artwork, which I screen captured from the Legacy DVD Extras, shows a vehicle that is significantly more realistic because the larger the vehicle, the easier it is to target.

The GMU is listed in the 1st Edition RPG as being 68m long and 23m tall (without the cannon extended). The Raw version of Marines lists the GMU as 102.4m long and 34.7m tall (without the cannon extended). The finalized artwork shows its closer to 35 long and 8m tall (without the cannon extended) at most.

GMU Finalized Art 1
GMU Finalized Art 2
GMU 1st Edition RPG Version
GMU Comics/Novelizations Version

There really is no reason for the GMUs to be as large as either the Comics (which is absurdly large) or the 1st Edition RPG. It seems that, like a number of things, Palladium was never updated to the finalized work on The Sentinels (the Karbarrans being another great example), which is a crying shame. The fact is that we now have most of the complete information, though there are still niggling bits left out (the Prototype Cyclone's Battle Armor mode being noteworthy). I hope, for once, that Tommy Yune actually rejects the GMU as listed and hammers home the fact it was a much smaller vehicle. It would still require its own dropship, of course.....

[Lt Gargoyle]

well in the Palladium up update it said the book was approved for the most part with some minor changes. I for one would like to see the sentinel races get their updates. I am not surprised the mobile command center (GMU) is large.

[glitterboy2098]

it's supposed to have repair and storage facilities for mecha in it, along with a sizeable amount of facilities to fill the role of mobile base.. and the original art made it too small to fit everything the original concept said was in it. so a size increase seems logical.

it is now basically a small starship on wheels sizewise, which was basically the role it filled in the concept material.

[silvermoon383]

In case you were wondering, no, Knox's team will not be scavenging up the GMU XD