Playing from High Magic to Low Magic Areas

[Blackwater Sniper]

I have a group that I want to take from Rifts Earth and thrust them into a low magic area (like Ninjas and Superspies) for a short time and back onto Rifts Earth.

The mages will only have the PPE they came with and won't be able to siphon any more from ambient sources.

How should the lack of PPE affect any spells already cast prior to moving to an area of little PPE?

Should they end normally? End at a randomly quick pace? or just fail upon the immediate change?

Would magic items from South America, England, or Atlantis still work as described?

Let me know how your team runs things or if there are set rules in one of the books.

[The Beast]

Check the original CB1. I know in the Robotech section it mentioned some stuff about reducing a dragon's MDC if they crossed over to that setting due to less ambient magic energy. There may be other stuff mentioned there as well. Otherwise I'd go with using the AR/SDC/HP stats from the appropriate book, but leave attributes and PPE/ISP levels alone.

I also suggest using the 2nd Ed Heroes Unlimited book (mainly) and the other SDC main books (for spells not in HU) for what spells do in a SDC setting. It also has its own rules for absorbing PPE from ley lines.

As far as the items go however, you'll likely have to guess what the effects are. In most cases anything that provides/causes MDC will just straight convert into SDC (ie: 10 MDC is now 10 SDC). Any item that recharges its PPE on its own might take longer than the PCs are used to though.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well your example of a low magic planet is incorrect....The Splicers game's world is an example of a low/almost none magic world that you seam to be talking about. There are rules for an ""almost no magic world"" in the splicers core book. (can't tell you which page cause I don't have access to it ATM. but if I remember correctly it's in the back.)
(The magic of the N&S world in more on par with the BTS world.)

The Effects of spells: you will need to decide if this is a MDC/MD world or just "SDC/HP"/SD world. But mostly spells cast there will be SDC/SD in nature.
-bringing in active spells...interesting idea to think about....
My 1st thought is that they would just continue normally....ending when they should. But if the GM needs a 'problem' right away then they could end in a shorter time. Maybe they run into the magic eating monster/animal/plant right off the bat.

Magic items: they would imidately (within 5 minutes if you want to be nice) be nerfed down to SDC/SD magic 'at least'.




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If planing for a N&S level magic...
... then there is a magic section in the Mystic China book. Which has a few different forms of magic in it, along with he saving throws vs same magic types.
...If you can find the BTS 1st ed core book, then that would be the closest contemporary PB Game to the N&S and MC Core books. If not, then the HU2 magic section will do.

footnote: MDC/MD...SDC/SD....follow the pattern.

[ShadowLogan]

Check the original CB1. I know in the Robotech section it mentioned some stuff about reducing a dragon's MDC if they crossed over to that setting due to less ambient magic energy.

I will point out only that the Robotech (be it 1E or 2E) has MDC magic in it via the Perytonian Race (1E was Spells per day, 2E IINM is PPE driven) and even MDC beings and MDC Psychics (Garudans), but RT is probably one of those rare special cases where the normal rules do not apply that have "low" magic availability (par with SDC worlds), but yet have "high" magic effects (par with Rifts Earth).

Should they end normally? End at a randomly quick pace? or just fail upon the immediate change?

They function normally for the most part, the only difference is they function at SDC levels (ex. Call Lightning does not do 1d6MD, but 1d6 SDC, or Armor of Ithan now has SDC instead of MDC along with an AR). The best sources for that would be as mentioned HU2E or Palladium Fantasy (2E), baring that the issue is addressed in Conversion Book 1 (Revised) and IINM Dragons & Gods (maybe a few other places).

Would magic items from South America, England, or Atlantis still work as described?

Yes it will work as described, other than the after mentioned MDC to SDC conversion that are part of the rules found in Conversion Book 1 (Original or Revised).

[Curbludgeon]

Hi, Blackwater Sniper! I went ahead and looked up the relevant texts.

Rifts Dimension Book 7:Megaverse Builder pp 14-15 discuss No/Low/Intermediate/High/Super High magic levels for different dimensions. While Ninjas & Superspies isn't specifically listed, examples of Low Magic settings are Rifts Earth before the Cataclysm, Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlimited, and Systems Failure. N&SS, when combined with Mystic China, would arguably best fit there. In a Low Magic setting there is no ambient P.P.E., save potentially during events like eclipses or the like, and blood sacrifices are generally needed in order to accumulate large amounts of P.P.E.. There are no listed changes to items or previously cast spells.

You might consider N&SS without Mystic China to instead be a No Magic setting, where there are still no effects to items or spells but P.P.E. is only available from sacrifice and inner reserves, with the latter recovering at half the normal rate.

The Splicers setting is described on pg 167 of its main book as not only being a No Magic setting, but an anti-magic environment. There only half of the usual P.P.E. is available to a caster which takes three times longer to recover, spells double their P.P.E. cost, and effects/range/duration/damage of cast spells are halved. In that setting psionics are double the cost and half the I.S.P. recovery speed, but that could be considered Splicers-specific.

I hope this was helpful!

[ITWastrel]

Sending an MDC wizard to an SDC world is easy, not attribute changes, use SDC spell equivalents. If you want to truly screw your mages, and make the players feel as they've been punished, reduce their PPE and recovery as well. I wouldn't do that.

I would, as a GM, be very wary of removing the ability of spellcasters to do MDC in an MDC world like Robotech.

The idea that casters would be SDC pleebs in a world of untouchable MDC machines would alienate the player, and make every encounter into "I hide. I can't hurt them, and they can instantly obliterate me."
An SDC caster in an MDC world is just a lore nerd with poor combat ability. Lore that will be generally useless there anyway.

Now, using low magic rules, like the ones in splicers, where the magic is still MD but it's much more limited, makes a lot of sense. I would even reduce the MDC/MD of spells and effects by 50%, That way the caster isn't "Poof, I have more MDC than a spartan, and I do more damage than any weapon in this world".

But using SDC magic in an MDC world is just a heartache for the player, and making a PLAYER feel useless and hopeless is a lot different than making a CHARACTER feel challenged.

[Axelmania]

I have a group that I want to take from Rifts Earth and thrust them into a low magic area (like Ninjas and Superspies) for a short time and back onto Rifts Earth.

Not sure if N+S is notably low in magic if you incorporate Mystic China. The mage PCCs there have BTSesque amounts of PPE if I recall. Makes me wonder if they would get similar boosts on Rifts as the BTS mages. CB1 only ever included notes for adapting the main book OCCs.

The mages will only have the PPE they came with and won't be able to siphon any more from ambient sources.

"Available P.P.E. to work their magic is limited to the mage's permanent P.P.E. base" seems like the standard option of siphoning PPE won't work in Splicers.

How should the lack of PPE affect any spells already cast prior to moving to an area of little PPE?

half effects

Should they end normally? End at a randomly quick pace? or just fail upon the immediate change?

half duration applies even when spending double the PPE, so if you initiated it with merely the normal PPE amount you could argue it fails.

Given that it's possible to choose to spend more PPE than necessary (per Nega-Psychic in Psyscape) you could allow casters knowing they'll be going to a No Magic dimension to opt to spend double the PPE, in which case when they go over the spell shouldn't end unless half the duration has already elapsed.

A generous GM might even say that it's only REMAINING duration which is halved, rather than total. IE if you cast a 60-minute spell and jumped over after 40 minutes, instead of ending, the remaining 20 minutes would just be 10 minutes.

If you want some guidelines on how to deal with low-magic dimensions I can think of a couple precedents.

Splicers being one (which Drew already mentioned: I had forgot about the "Dragons in Robotech" thing Beast brought up) and Megaverse Builder (which Curbludgeon mentioned) being the other I remembered.

When comparing DB7p14 to Splicers167, it seems to line up with "No Magic" except that usually doesn't halve duration/effect/range which might be a unique effect of Splicers compared to other No Magic dimensions (which normally only double PPE costs). Splicers is notably unique in that unlike No Magic (PPE recovers at half rate) PPE recovers at 1/3 the rate. It's almost like Splicers doesn't just lack magic but actively SAPS it somehow.

OH and finally something that hasn't been mentioned... DB4 "Skraypers" is also a low-magic dimension. Pg 74 says it has Ley Lines (so it's not "No Magic" and lineless like Splicers) though per DB7 they may be "will not even be accessible to magic users" even if found... which interestingly includes not just Systems Failure but also BTS/HU even though I'm pretty sure the latter two have rules for accessing ley line PPE...

This lines up with how Skraypers says "unable to draw upon ley line PPE" and "their own reserves or PPE from living beings" also matches up with "ritual or blood sacrifice" being used to get high PPE amounts (unlike No Magic where I don't think that's an option)

The unique thing about Skraypers is on the planet Seeron needing triple the PPE to open a dimensional portal (3000 instad of the usual 1000) and requiring a ley line to cast the spell (instead of being able to do it anywhere as usual) even though all other spells cost the standard amount. It's like it operates Splicers-like ONLY in respect to that one spell.

Closest I can think of that is "Density of Dimensional Fabric" in DB7 which is a % reduction to teleports and I guess portals even though portals generally lack %s. Fabric rules generally apply in both directions though wheres it seems like it's only hard to get out of Seeron, but not hard to get into it.

Presumably similar rules apply in neighboring planets as it says "throughout the Charizolon system". Which is why pg 127's approach (Charizolon system is in the Corkscrew Galaxy) is palatable: elements that would be hard to counter such as magic from the Kreeghor/Splugorth/UWW could not gain much of a purchase there, and without such countermeasures, super powers could wreak a LOT of havoc on your expensive warships. It's probably higher-priority to capture high-magic worlds in the Three Galaxies either for your own use or to deprive magical rivals of use. Charizolon's biggest export is it's people.

[Killer Cyborg]

I have a group that I want to take from Rifts Earth and thrust them into a low magic area (like Ninjas and Superspies) for a short time and back onto Rifts Earth.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but if they're on N&S Earth long enough to learn a Martial Art that gives them Chi Awareness and such, I'd allow them to use Chi to replenish PPE in some fashion.

How should the lack of PPE affect any spells already cast prior to moving to an area of little PPE?

Mega-damage effects would change to SDC effects at the moment of transition. If you cast Armor of Ithan on Rifts Earth, then move to an SDC setting, the AoI would be SDC at the moment of arrival. In settings where there's a local version of the spell that uses SDC, go with that. If not, use the stats from the closest applicable SDC setting.

Should they end normally? End at a randomly quick pace? or just fail upon the immediate change?

Spell duration doesn't generally change depending on what dimension you're in, even if you go from high magic to low magic, unless the local version of the same spell has a different duration listed.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Here are the question I see the OP needs to answer for himself...if he hasn't already.

What do you mean by Low magic?
✥Is it just lack of PPE in the world causing the magic users problems with replenishing their PPE base?
✥Or is it that the effects are halved?
✥Or is it that the effects are now SDC/HP effects instead of MDC/MD effects? (Another way to ask this question is 'Does the universe support MDC/MD effects?')
✥Or a combination of more than one of these?

All the other questions will fall into place once this question is answered.

[Borast]

Adding my 2% of a dollar...
The mages' personal PPE would not change, although, I would suggest checking HU for comparable PPEs of mages, and using those as "temporary" maximums after your mages spend PPE. (If you don't want them overrunning the power level there.)
For spell power levels durations, etc., direct translation to SDC/HP as per the same spell in the HU (source) book(s).
The same for your weapons...translate down to functional equivalent in SDC (remembering that in both worlds, a LAWs rocket does 1D6x100SDC).