Creating new demonic races and such

[SolCannibal]

How might an enterprising infernal lord or just ambitious and experimentalist dark magician go at trying to replicate the feats of Hades & Dyvval in crafting new races or special individuals of their kind?

Any OCCs, RCCs, spells or psychic powers you would particularly suggest?

Everything up to GM fiat or is there something that you think could be used as guidelines for difficulty of success, depending on how high or low one is aiming for, colaterals, botched creations and so on? The more resources, the merrier.

Me, not having any specific mechanic examples in mind (outside the use of deific powers), try to use NPC examples that i remember from the books here and there.

- Some (most) of the new demon races in the Hades book are cited (sometimes accidental, as in the Death Demons case) of magic/blood/"bio-wizardry" experiments on the part of Succor-Bemoth (16th level Wizard). He's unintentionally responsible for the transformation of a Rakshasa into what would become Prince Bazal, the leader of Death Demons and a virtual demon lord on its own.

- Dyval's counterpart in the "mad wizardry department" for the Minion War would be Diabolus (20th level Summoner and 12th level Necromancer) i think, though it has been some time since i last read the book, so can't remember any citations of his involvment or not in making Shock Dragons & Deevil Dragons.

- In CB2 there's mention of how the demoness/lesser demon lord Lilith was once merely a Dar'ota before being transformed into her current form by either Abzu (20th level ley line walker and master of bio-wizardry & temporal magic) or Tiamat (18th level ley line walker), though i tempted to say the later, who also used the corpse of a demon servant (Kingu), in a complicated summoning ritual to bind his life force to that of a vampire intelligence she had enslaved previously.

- While not a demonic being in the least, another interesting case would be the god Enlil that, according to CB2, wasn't really born, but "was created when a fragment of Anu's (18th level shifter, 15th level ley line walker, 12th level mind melter) essence melded with a greater air elemental and a mortal's mind in a complex magic and psionic ritual".

- Also in CB2, we have the Jupiter Evil Intelligence (12th Level Line Walker, Diabolist, and Summoner) who turned two demons of unspecified origin, Hyrr'Klean & Myrroo-kee, into powerful servants/false gods who, i guess, are somewhere between adult dragons and the weakest demon/deevil lords in power level.


"But bro" i can hear many of you people saying "all of these are beings who would have deific powers!" and yes, that's true, but it's also a fact most of them were written before deific powers were established and without them in mind, so there's decent wiggle room for the idea of divinity not being required.

Kind of like a mortal will be less than a dragon, demon or god, but may still be used in the forging of the least of Rune Weapons, for a (admitedly weird) simile. And well, the CB2 examples i used are very much top tier, with beings that might classify as demon/deevil regents, princes or even Lords themselves. What i'm actually aiming for is not even close to that level of ambition, as my interest is more in lesser infernals and maybe a greater or two.

[drewkitty ~..~]

*points at the deity race creation power in RCB2 Pantheons*
(comment) demons should not have anything more than the gods.

[SolCannibal]

*points at the deity race creation power in RCB2 Pantheons*
(comment) demons should not have anything more than the gods.

One. Took some time rereading CB2 and honestly found no such thing in the book. Are you not confusing it with Dragons & Gods?

Two. Many of my examples above actually involve Dark Gods (or an Intelligence) doing more than the lords of Hades and Dyval have done, so kind of opposite of your comment?

Three. I'm trying to focus on methods not dependent on Divine Abilities, as those are not stuff a PC or non-god tier being can replicate by RAW - and more importantly, the whole profane experimentation, colaterals, failures & successes rigmarole that interests me makes no sense when you bring that power in the equation.

[Curbludgeon]

The Create Minion deific power from Dragons&Gods pg 92 notwithstanding, there are a couple of relevant tables that could be drawn from to cobble together something interesting. The Bio-Vat Exposure Tables in DB11 pp 124-126, the Transmutation Mutation Table from WB2 pp 107-108, and the failure table for the Genetic Manipulation skill from the " "optional" " Primorder article in Rifter 3 pg 92 come to mind, and I'm sure there's something in Heroes Unlimited that's useful.

I'd also consider maybe starting with the Soulmancy/Demon Magic Permanency ritual as a way to modify a starting creature before using something akin to the above in order to make those changes "breed true." Alternatively, Mysteries of Magic mentions the presence of Sex Magic in Palladium, and while that could encompass several modalities, changes to fertility seem like perhaps one of the first ones to have been developed.

[SolCannibal]

The Create Minion deific power from Dragons&Gods pg 92 notwithstanding, there are a couple of relevant tables that could be drawn from to cobble together something interesting. The Bio-Vat Exposure Tables in DB11 pp 124-126, the Transmutation Mutation Table from WB2 pp 107-108, and the failure table for the Genetic Manipulation skill from the " "optional" " Primorder article in Rifter 3 pg 92 come to mind, and I'm sure there's something in Heroes Unlimited that's useful.

I'd also consider maybe starting with the Soulmancy/Demon Magic Permanency ritual as a way to modify a starting creature before using something akin to the above in order to make those changes "breed true." Alternatively, Mysteries of Magic mentions the presence of Sex Magic in Palladium, and while that could encompass several modalities, changes to fertility seem like perhaps one of the first ones to have been developed.

Deific powers are exactly the kind of thing i want to veer away from, but the tables you cited seem to be quite interesting indeed.
Specially the article that brings the genetic manipulation skill into play - having a skill as reference gives me something that works better for a ballpark for active PC or NPC action. But going to look into everything anyway, who knows what ideas i might get from bits of fluff here and there (did the Deevils steal the Bio-Vats secrets from the Splugorth?). Thanks.

[Emerald MoonSilver]

If you have access to heroes unlimited books, there is a section in powers unlimited 2 that shows how to create major and minor angels, demons, demon lords, demi-gods and godlings. these could be adapted to creating a new demon sub race you may have in mind, using abilities from HU, Night bane talents, or any other psychic abilities from rifts.

[SolCannibal]

If you have access to heroes unlimited books, there is a section in powers unlimited 2 that shows how to create major and minor angels, demons, demon lords, demi-gods and godlings. these could be adapted to creating a new demon sub race you may have in mind, using abilities from HU, Night bane talents, or any other psychic abilities from rifts.

Thanks alot, indeed i do have it. Definitely going to check for that juicy bit of extra ammunition.

[drewkitty ~..~]

*points at the deity race creation power in RCB2 Pantheons*
(comment) demons should not have anything more than the gods.

One. Took some time rereading CB2 and honestly found no such thing in the book. Are you not confusing it with Dragons & Gods?

Two. Many of my examples above actually involve Dark Gods (or an Intelligence) doing more than the lords of Hades and Dyval have done, so kind of opposite of your comment?

Three. I'm trying to focus on methods not dependent on Divine Abilities, as those are not stuff a PC or non-god tier being can replicate by RAW - and more importantly, the whole profane experimentation, colaterals, failures & successes rigmarole that interests me makes no sense when you bring that power in the equation.

Sorry the divine abilities are in the other gods book...the Dragons and Gods sourcebook.
https://palladium-store.com/1001/produc ... -Gods.html

[SolCannibal]

A funny and kind of "cheap bastard" sort of idea just crossed my mind - since Shock Dragons apparently can be made from eggs of a variety of dragon species, using the runts of dragonkind, Cockatrices, for egg production in the bio-vats - or at least the bio-vats of someone who lucked out in the "industrial espionage" sector - might be doable.

Hmmmm, my version of "False Mephisto" might be perfect for that. Probably stole the secrets of the bio-vats by possessing all kinds of creatures and getting itself captured, thrown into them - and using the opportunity to study from the inside. Yeah, that could work.

Not a new race per se, but another force making their own brand. Since they use Cockatrice as base materials, no flyers, spellcasters or elite shock dragons, just basic infantry. But at least they should all have glorious feathers to posture about.

Yeah, that's very much Nox (my "False Mephisto" AI) style indeed.

Now i'm imagining that she would have normal-looking Shock Dragons, for false flag operations and such, while having the feathered ones for work in her realm or operations where not being confused with Dyvalian forces is preferable. Or maybe they can change between scales or feathers. Will have to think some more about this.

Anyway, Nox can replicate Diabolus' Bio-Vats and that means fun upgrades to the resources of my Triumvirate of Impostors.
Modus (false Modeus) with his Red Flame Nightbane demons ain't the only one with an edge anymore....

Mictla(ntecuhtli, the brother of Hades' Mictla[ncihuatl]) has no special tricks of its own for now. Except for being the only one AI of the trio that can come and go from Rifts Earth whenever he wants, that is. Pretty nifty that too.

[SolCannibal]

Ok, kind of forgot about this topic for some time, but just remembered these "knockoff" Shock Dragons in service of my version of False Mephisto and some new, funky ideas have started to burst in my mind.

First i had a passing thought about making some Shock Dragons out of Wooly Dragon eggs, for aesthetic (have some fur and mane, making them visually distinctive from most other dragons) and "well, they are about as dumb as cockatrice anyway" reasons.

Going back to CB1 i realized that wasn't a quite fair assesment as, while definitely not the brightest chaps in dragonkind, they are much smarter than cockatrices (or hydras, that are indeed on the cockatrice intelligence level). Also, they are far more powerful than Shock Dragons (or Deevil Dragons for that matter), even as hatchlings, making the use of their eggs for that kind of wasteful i guess.

That said, it made me think that having some Wooly Dragons as mounts or "tanks" could be good - and maybe making one could use their eggs to make some sort of variant of Shock Dragon with a kind of arcane or psychic link to them, maybe something like the Master-Blaster style symbiosis of Cernun Mystics with Gigantes in WB3. So, how feasible or far-fetched does that sound for you people?

As an aside, have also considered the possibility of messing around with Hydra eggs thrown into the Bio-Vats. For possible results i'm divided between a multi-headed Shock Dragon or "normal-looking" Shock Dragons that come in clutches of seven, each with a unique breath but also a sort of mutual pack link/dependence. Who knows, i could even have both sorts, maybe the Alien Intelligence is having issues with using the process reliably on hydra eggs and working out the kinks. Also, considering how i imagine Nox, she might be not yet sure of which brand she finds more interesting to focus on and perfectly capable of toying with both as she goes along.

[Blackwater Sniper]

Copy/Paste/Repeat In-Laws

[drewkitty ~..~]

For Supernatural monster creation the PF: Land of the Damned 1 has a random monster creation tables near the back of the book. Have used this a few times to create a new race. Then if you pair it with the random alien tables in the HU core book and aliens unlimited you can make a humanoid SN being.

There is also another random monster creation table at the back of the RMB (org. Rifts core book). And there is the monster create tables in the RDB2, the fist book of the 3G books.

or just use these to inspire your own ideas, making something New.