GB locking and unlocking

[ryokoryu]

So I was talking to someone today who was saying a SAMAS moving around a GB was still at a disadvantage considering the locking down of the stabilization system and unlocking it both occurred in the same action as firing the boomgun and I am sure I read that it takes more time to deploy the pylons and pull em back up as there are penalties in various places for A firing the thing without having the pylons deployed and B mechanics for not being able to dodge when they are deployed but I can't find the timing for the deployment and extraction of them anywhere. His argument was that since it didn't say they turned slowly by X amount and B that since there is no time listed for either that it was part of the same fire action. I pointed out the multiple pylon strikes for getting onto the hull of a ship and shooting underwater and he is arguing that that only applies to places you have to do MD to get the pylons sunk in. The only place we can find official times for this is variants in the Triax book but not the base GB so I was wondering if anyone has times for this in an actual book or official release from palladium. The point of this is my character (a crazy with a hero complex) and this other player's character (a free quebek GB) are gonna end up having to fight over allowing a d-bee being under my protection. Without being able to use the mobility issues which will require me finding an official time for my GM to see for the base GB pylon deployments it isn't going to matter because he is set to allow him to turn and fire with no penalty.

[The Beast]

Only place I'm aware of that talks about deploying the pylons and all that is in CB1, towards the beginning of the book where they're talking about tech stuff before they start going into the conversion stuff.

[Orin J.]

there aren't any hard rules for it. if you want my house rule suggestions you could as much as halve dodge bonuses after the Boom gun is fired to represet it. you should also remember that while they're rooted to the spot there's pretty fair mobility in the suit itself so the gun can pretty reliably cover everything towards the front without problems, especially upwards.

that said if the crazy isn't in some power armor themselves or REALLY munchkin'd out their gear it's plausable the glitterboy will just go "hell with it" and bea they guy into submission after crushing their guns.

[guardiandashi]

I believe the writeup was that the pylons and toe claws deploy "effectively instantly" as long as you don't override the system, (or the "ground" isn't stable enough to count as solid) and then the claws and pylons retract almost instantly, when they are set to retract, so both the deploy and retract take less than an action which could be as little as 1 second (if the pilot somehow had 15 actions/melee)

with that said I would say that the "normal" setting would be to have it work like this..

the pilot is using the manual trigger on the boom gun:
1 the pilot aims at the target.
2 the pilot begins squeezing the trigger
2A when the trigger is squeezed ~1/4-1/2 way the pylons, and claws deploy, and the thruster pack spins up.
2B when the trigger is "fully" depressed, the boom gun fires.
3 as the trigger is released beyond ~3/4 out the thruster pack starts spinning down, and the pylons retract and the toe claws release
by the time the trigger is fully to the released (rest position) the recoil suppression systems are back to "standby mode"

[ryokoryu]

I believe the writeup was that the pylons and toe claws deploy "effectively instantly" as long as you don't override the system, (or the "ground" isn't stable enough to count as solid) and then the claws and pylons retract almost instantly, when they are set to retract, so both the deploy and retract take less than an action which could be as little as 1 second (if the pilot somehow had 15 actions/melee)

with that said I would say that the "normal" setting would be to have it work like this..

the pilot is using the manual trigger on the boom gun:
1 the pilot aims at the target.
2 the pilot begins squeezing the trigger
2A when the trigger is squeezed ~1/4-1/2 way the pylons, and claws deploy, and the thruster pack spins up.
2B when the trigger is "fully" depressed, the boom gun fires.
3 as the trigger is released beyond ~3/4 out the thruster pack starts spinning down, and the pylons retract and the toe claws release
by the time the trigger is fully to the released (rest position) the recoil suppression systems are back to "standby mode"

which would literally render the notes KS puts for GMs to counter the GB using SAMAS suits moot as the GB would easily splat a pair of SAMAS before they could destroy them. Really seems as there should be Time listed somewhere being that this is a weakness the designer of the whole game tells you to exploit.

[Braden Campbell]

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

[Axelmania]

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

I love this as a house rule, makes me think of the siege tanks from starcraft, great way to nerf the GBs a bit

[Warshield73]

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

My only problem with this is that it's countered by the text saying "nearly instant". It also neuters a GB which is not as powerful as it was in the RMB days.

What I have always said is that the GB can not move during any attack round that the GB has fired the boom gun.

[guardiandashi]

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

My only problem with this is that it's countered by the text saying "nearly instant". It also neuters a GB which is not as powerful as it was in the RMB days.

What I have always said is that the GB can not move during any attack round that the GB has fired the boom gun.

I would consider this a reasonable compromise as it doesn't contradict what I was saying.

look at it this way. glitterboy pilot with all the correct skills has ~7-8 attacks per melee.

from a practical point of view, if the SAMAS pilots have 4 actions / melee then you have 4 attacks (per samas) that the glitter boy may want to seriously consider dodging, which means there are (arguably) 3 attacks (one on one) that the glitterboy could strike unopposed. if there are only 2 samas attacking I would definitely consider attacking 1-2 times early in the attack phases to try to put them down preemptively in order to minimise damage taken.

[Braden Campbell]

My only problem with this is that it's countered by the text saying "nearly instant". It also neuters a GB which is not as powerful as it was in the RMB days...

If the GB pilot has as few as 5 attacks, engaging/disengaging the pylons would take all of 3 seconds.

As well, every other character in the game has to spend an action/attack to draw a weapon... so why shouldn't the same apply to a GB?

[Zer0 Kay]

IIRC the spikes do 1M.D. per attack. So the GB pilot pulls the trigger. The pylons deploy drilling down 1M.D. worth up to max length. As long as the ground it has drilled out is worth 1 M.D. and the grapple head can deploy OR the pylons can extend to full length, it has gone down far enough. So super dense ground that only allows the pylon to deploy a few inches and deploy the grapple is strong enough to keep the GB anchored. Normal packed dirt with the pylons fully extended is enough to keep the GB anchored. GB is immobile while they're deployed allowing a SAMAS team to use the same tactics A-10s use on heavy tanks, flying in from three different directions. Only one has to dodge while the other two get a stationary target.

POSSIBLE ANTI GB tactic: place plates under a few inches of packed dirt that are 2 M.D. the anchor attempts to deploy, goes down a few inches and partially imbeds, anchoring into the plate. The GB fires and falls over with one or two of the plates stuck under its feet.

[Zer0 Kay]

My only problem with this is that it's countered by the text saying "nearly instant". It also neuters a GB which is not as powerful as it was in the RMB days...

If the GB pilot has as few as 5 attacks, engaging/disengaging the pylons would take all of 3 seconds.

As well, every other character in the game has to spend an action/attack to draw a weapon... so why shouldn't the same apply to a GB?

But they do... when the weapon is drawn. But changing possition and firing again isn't drawing a weapon.

[Zer0 Kay]

The pylons can extend as far as 1MD allows them to extend, tries to deploy the grapple blades, retracts the grapple blades and retracts in one action. It isn't an issue of how fast it deploys. The immobility weakness comes from a target being able to flank it while it is going after someone else, the pylons not being able to deploy or some other system not engaging (unless the GB pilot disables the "safety feature") or the GB pilot choosing not to disengage the pylons, voluntarily choosing to remain anchored.

[Warshield73]

My only problem with this is that it's countered by the text saying "nearly instant". It also neuters a GB which is not as powerful as it was in the RMB days...

If the GB pilot has as few as 5 attacks, engaging/disengaging the pylons would take all of 3 seconds.

As well, every other character in the game has to spend an action/attack to draw a weapon... so why shouldn't the same apply to a GB?

But they do... when the weapon is drawn. But changing possition and firing again isn't drawing a weapon.

Agreed. Deploying the Boom Gun could, and probably should, cost an attack but the description for deploying pylons says "almost instant" so you can require it to be an attack to deploy and one retract but it will limit the GB in a way not intended and those limits will not be added to any other power armor or robot.

[Zer0 Kay]

My only problem with this is that it's countered by the text saying "nearly instant". It also neuters a GB which is not as powerful as it was in the RMB days...

If the GB pilot has as few as 5 attacks, engaging/disengaging the pylons would take all of 3 seconds.

As well, every other character in the game has to spend an action/attack to draw a weapon... so why shouldn't the same apply to a GB?

But they do... when the weapon is drawn. But changing possition and firing again isn't drawing a weapon.

Agreed. Deploying the Boom Gun could, and probably should, cost an attack but the description for deploying pylons says "almost instant" so you can require it to be an attack to deploy and one retract but it will limit the GB in a way not intended and those limits will not be added to any other power armor or robot.

Instant is defined as happening or coming immediately. If an attack takes three seconds and the pylons deploy the first second and the gun fires in the third that is nearly immediately. The nebulous definition of a dubious time period leaves room for everything and nothing as nearly immediately could mean 2 tenths of a second from firing the pylons deploy instead of one tenth. Being anecdotal and not based in facts it is likely also based in feeling. So all GB pilots no matter how fast they are (how many attacks they have) always feel that the duration of time between trigger pull (anchor deployment) and firing is too long. So basically instead of being unnoticeable (immediate) there is always a sense that there is some time between trigger pull and firing.

[Axelmania]

for some reason when I saw this thread title today I thought of a breakdancing Glitter Boy

and then when I read about the drills it made me think of them being extended on an indestructible floor and the GB basically making stiltwalking rolls to use it to reach high places if their jetpack was broken adn they couldn't make jet-assisted leaps

[ryokoryu]

then why do you have penalties to dodge for the pylons being deployed.

[Zer0 Kay]

then why do you have penalties to dodge for the pylons being deployed.

Because if the pylon is deployed it is going to be tough to dodge. If you have 5 attacks each one of yours occurs about every 3 seconds if your opponent also has 5 attacks his are happening NEARLY IMMEDIATELY to yours. Your getting a minus to dodge because your pylons haven't fully retracted yet OR because you haven't chosen to retract them.

[Warshield73]

for some reason when I saw this thread title today I thought of a breakdancing Glitter Boy

and then when I read about the drills it made me think of them being extended on an indestructible floor and the GB basically making stiltwalking rolls to use it to reach high places if their jetpack was broken adn they couldn't make jet-assisted leaps

Years ago, still under RMB, one of my PCs tried using his Boom Gun while standing on the deck of a pre-Rifts MDC submersible aircraft carrier that I barrowed from Robotech 1e. I told him they couldn't deploy through the deck and the entire table was saying the same thing, that he should be on stilts now.

then why do you have penalties to dodge for the pylons being deployed.

Because if the pylon is deployed it is going to be tough to dodge. If you have 5 attacks each one of yours occurs about every 3 seconds if your opponent also has 5 attacks his are happening NEARLY IMMEDIATELY to yours. Your getting a minus to dodge because your pylons haven't fully retracted yet OR because you haven't chosen to retract them.

This is actually my point here. You already have a system that must work perfectly and a penalty to dodge, requiring 3 attacks to fire the boom gun just once to me is ridiculous and it is clearly not part of the description.

[kaid]

I believe the writeup was that the pylons and toe claws deploy "effectively instantly" as long as you don't override the system, (or the "ground" isn't stable enough to count as solid) and then the claws and pylons retract almost instantly, when they are set to retract, so both the deploy and retract take less than an action which could be as little as 1 second (if the pilot somehow had 15 actions/melee)

with that said I would say that the "normal" setting would be to have it work like this..

the pilot is using the manual trigger on the boom gun:
1 the pilot aims at the target.
2 the pilot begins squeezing the trigger
2A when the trigger is squeezed ~1/4-1/2 way the pylons, and claws deploy, and the thruster pack spins up.
2B when the trigger is "fully" depressed, the boom gun fires.
3 as the trigger is released beyond ~3/4 out the thruster pack starts spinning down, and the pylons retract and the toe claws release
by the time the trigger is fully to the released (rest position) the recoil suppression systems are back to "standby mode"

which would literally render the notes KS puts for GMs to counter the GB using SAMAS suits moot as the GB would easily splat a pair of SAMAS before they could destroy them. Really seems as there should be Time listed somewhere being that this is a weakness the designer of the whole game tells you to exploit.

The issue is not really the deployment time it is the fact you have to be stopped even if only momentairly. You can't easily fire on the run unless you risk flopping on your butt from the recoil. Combat speed of an actively firing GB is hella slow compared to almost any power armor let alone something as fast as a samas. Also it can't instantly accelerate from a stop the person in it is literally walking/jogging/running so if you plan to fire every action of a round you are basically stationary when you are doing it or at least effectively so for combat targeting.

[Warshield73]

I believe the writeup was that the pylons and toe claws deploy "effectively instantly" as long as you don't override the system, (or the "ground" isn't stable enough to count as solid) and then the claws and pylons retract almost instantly, when they are set to retract, so both the deploy and retract take less than an action which could be as little as 1 second (if the pilot somehow had 15 actions/melee)

with that said I would say that the "normal" setting would be to have it work like this..

the pilot is using the manual trigger on the boom gun:
1 the pilot aims at the target.
2 the pilot begins squeezing the trigger
2A when the trigger is squeezed ~1/4-1/2 way the pylons, and claws deploy, and the thruster pack spins up.
2B when the trigger is "fully" depressed, the boom gun fires.
3 as the trigger is released beyond ~3/4 out the thruster pack starts spinning down, and the pylons retract and the toe claws release
by the time the trigger is fully to the released (rest position) the recoil suppression systems are back to "standby mode"

which would literally render the notes KS puts for GMs to counter the GB using SAMAS suits moot as the GB would easily splat a pair of SAMAS before they could destroy them. Really seems as there should be Time listed somewhere being that this is a weakness the designer of the whole game tells you to exploit.

The issue is not really the deployment time it is the fact you have to be stopped even if only momentairly. You can't easily fire on the run unless you risk flopping on your butt from the recoil. Combat speed of an actively firing GB is hella slow compared to almost any power armor let alone something as fast as a samas. Also it can't instantly accelerate from a stop the person in it is literally walking/jogging/running so if you plan to fire every action of a round you are basically stationary when you are doing it or at least effectively so for combat targeting.

Then that would be something different than a rule were every time you use the pylons it is an extra attack to lower and another to raise. Running at full speed is usually an action on its own so slowing or stopping would be part of that. The example you are using here doesn't apply to the rule as stated. And again I come back to the use of the word "instant" in the description. Now you can parse that word if you are talking speed of light and the like but in terms of a round lasting 15 seconds in a game, it is clear.

Movement penalties are great, I imported some from the old Star Frontiers game when we were still playing 1e Robotech, as they apply to all vehicles. What this rule does is just limit one vehicle that is already, by your own admission about speed and maneuverability, limited enough.

<Begin Sarcastic Hyperbolic Rant> Now if as GMs you despise the Glitter Boy so much that you feel the need to cripple any player that uses it for daring to have one that is up to you. <End Sarcastic Hyperbolic Rant>

Again gaming is personal and as GM's we can change the world any way we want, but don't pretend it is in keeping with the actual rules or this case even fair.

[Giant2005]

This is actually my point here. You already have a system that must work perfectly and a penalty to dodge, requiring 3 attacks to fire the boom gun just once to me is ridiculous and it is clearly not part of the description.

I certainly wouldn't advocate 3 attacks per shot, but firing the Boom Gun should certainly be slower than a standard weapon.
The process of pylons being extended, trigger pulled, pylons being retracted might happen fast, but it can't be as fast as simply pulling the trigger without having to worry about pylons.
I don't know if you have any experience with macros, but you have to have a slight delay between each event, or your macro is going to fail. Some of those events you have scripted will fail to occur on occasion. There has to be a slight delay for those pylons, as a safety measure, even if it is only 0.1 seconds. Still, that is 0.2 seconds slower that the GB should be firing relative to everyone else on the battlefield.

What I would do is have everything work fine if the GB is making and aimed or called shot, but if he is firing from the hip for more than one action in a row, there is a 5% chance that the pylons didn't engage on the second and subsequent shots fired (occurring on a natural 1 on the strike roll).

[rem1093]

This is one of many reasons why I house redesigned the boom gun. But as it's designed. I would go with it using two attacks, using a dual trigger. First one deploys the pylons the second fires the gun. When you release the triggers the pylons retract.
As a side anybody know if any different types of ammo to use with the boomgun?

[kaid]

If somebody wants to fire the boomgun every attack in the round they basically are stationary or effectively so. Even without costing extra attacks if you are just chain firing it you are as far as combat is concerned effectively not moving much. The penalty for doing this is basically nobody shooting at an attacking glitterboy has to worry about negatives to strike due to targets speed. This is also why gb are strong as hell and typically outrange their opponents by a large margin. So blow your enemy out of the sky before they can even attempt a response or otherwise just sit there and take it while blowing things up.

[Killer Cyborg]

It takes 1 attack to fire the Boom Gun.
RUE 72 (among other places): The pylons and jets fly into action the moment the boomgun is fired.

Which means that as the trigger is squeezed, the pylons launch.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the trigger has a kind of double-click aspect to it, where you squeeze it halfway and that fires the pylons, and you squeeze it fully and it fires, but that's just guesswork and house flavor.
The point is that engaging the pylons is NOT typically a separate action from firing the weapon.

Anything Kevin has said about a couple of SAMAS being able to take out a GB seems more based on his ideas on how SAMAS work than on how a GB works.
I'm guessing he believes that they can do strafing runs at the GB and get out of range before he can fire back, or at least before he can fire back many times.
Then again, he might just be talking about the rules for hitting moving targets: at the full 300 mph, technically anybody shooting at the SAMAS would be at about -6 to strike, or -7 if the SAMAS are taking evasive action.

[Killer Cyborg]

This is one of many reasons why I house redesigned the boom gun. But as it's designed. I would go with it using two attacks, using a dual trigger. First one deploys the pylons the second fires the gun. When you release the triggers the pylons retract.
As a side anybody know if any different types of ammo to use with the boomgun?

Why would a dual trigger use two attacks?

[Orin J.]

It takes 1 attack to fire the Boom Gun.
RUE 72 (among other places): The pylons and jets fly into action the moment the boomgun is fired.

Which means that as the trigger is squeezed, the pylons launch.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the trigger has a kind of double-click aspect to it, where you squeeze it halfway and that fires the pylons, and you squeeze it fully and it fires, but that's just guesswork and house flavor.
The point is that engaging the pylons is NOT typically a separate action from firing the weapon.

given the boom gun's design it's possible the pylons deploy when you swing out the handle, which folds into the gun when not in use. or that cycling the magnetic coils for the boomgun activates the pylons, which retract automatically after the weapon is safely discharged.

[Warshield73]

One of the things I was thinking about here is misfires. If you try and fire the boom gun and the pylons won't deploy for some reason they use the attack but the gun won't fire. This has happened to my players more than a few times.

[Giant2005]

Then again, he might just be talking about the rules for hitting moving targets: at the full 300 mph, technically anybody shooting at the SAMAS would be at about -6 to strike, or -7 if the SAMAS are taking evasive action.

They might be -6 or -7 to hit the SAMAS, but the SAMAS couldn't hit them at all (provided they have at least some sort of cover), so such a strategy would only make the SAMAS more vulnerable. But maybe that is why Kevin made such a statement regarding the Glitterboy specifically. A GB isn't going to be hiding behind some shrub while firing.

[rem1093]

This is one of many reasons why I house redesigned the boom gun. But as it's designed. I would go with it using two attacks, using a dual trigger. First one deploys the pylons the second fires the gun. When you release the triggers the pylons retract.
As a side anybody know if any different types of ammo to use with the boomgun?

Why would a dual trigger use two attacks?

Sorry meant dual stage triggers. Each stage would be a different action. Because of how the trigger works. This would also allow you to deploy the pylons and keep them out as long as you hold the trigger on the first stage.

[kaid]

It takes 1 attack to fire the Boom Gun.
RUE 72 (among other places): The pylons and jets fly into action the moment the boomgun is fired.

Which means that as the trigger is squeezed, the pylons launch.
I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the trigger has a kind of double-click aspect to it, where you squeeze it halfway and that fires the pylons, and you squeeze it fully and it fires, but that's just guesswork and house flavor.
The point is that engaging the pylons is NOT typically a separate action from firing the weapon.

Anything Kevin has said about a couple of SAMAS being able to take out a GB seems more based on his ideas on how SAMAS work than on how a GB works.
I'm guessing he believes that they can do strafing runs at the GB and get out of range before he can fire back, or at least before he can fire back many times.
Then again, he might just be talking about the rules for hitting moving targets: at the full 300 mph, technically anybody shooting at the SAMAS would be at about -6 to strike, or -7 if the SAMAS are taking evasive action.

Its basically that the gb is a sitting duck effectively stationary while the samas are whipping around. Once they get somewhat close its going to be very hard for the keep the samas in front of it one is almost always going to be just unloading on its back.

[Zer0 Kay]

for some reason when I saw this thread title today I thought of a breakdancing Glitter Boy

and then when I read about the drills it made me think of them being extended on an indestructible floor and the GB basically making stiltwalking rolls to use it to reach high places if their jetpack was broken adn they couldn't make jet-assisted leaps

Years ago, still under RMB, one of my PCs tried using his Boom Gun while standing on the deck of a pre-Rifts MDC submersible aircraft carrier that I barrowed from Robotech 1e. I told him they couldn't deploy through the deck and the entire table was saying the same thing, that he should be on stilts now.

then why do you have penalties to dodge for the pylons being deployed.

Because if the pylon is deployed it is going to be tough to dodge. If you have 5 attacks each one of yours occurs about every 3 seconds if your opponent also has 5 attacks his are happening NEARLY IMMEDIATELY to yours. Your getting a minus to dodge because your pylons haven't fully retracted yet OR because you haven't chosen to retract them.

This is actually my point here. You already have a system that must work perfectly and a penalty to dodge, requiring 3 attacks to fire the boom gun just once to me is ridiculous and it is clearly not part of the description.

Where do you get that it is 3 attacks to fire the boom gun out of that?
Let's say P1 wins initiative. P1 has a GB. P2 is in a SAMAS.
1. Chooses to fire and rolls a 14. P2 dodges with a 14 (GM: near miss).
2 P2 chooses to shoot and rolls a 8. P1 attempts to dodge but the modified roll is a
4 (GM: You were unable to dodge because your pylons weren't fully retracted).

[Warshield73]

Where do you get that it is 3 attacks to fire the boom gun out of that?
Let's say P1 wins initiative. P1 has a GB. P2 is in a SAMAS.
1. Chooses to fire and rolls a 14. P2 dodges with a 14 (GM: near miss).
2 P2 chooses to shoot and rolls a 8. P1 attempts to dodge but the modified roll is a
4 (GM: You were unable to dodge because your pylons weren't fully retracted).

From this.

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

Again a lot of this is getting mixed together but this is the post that I originally responded to. It got cut because there is a limit to the number of posts within posts.

[guardiandashi]

Where do you get that it is 3 attacks to fire the boom gun out of that?
Let's say P1 wins initiative. P1 has a GB. P2 is in a SAMAS.
1. Chooses to fire and rolls a 14. P2 dodges with a 14 (GM: near miss).
2 P2 chooses to shoot and rolls a 8. P1 attempts to dodge but the modified roll is a
4 (GM: You were unable to dodge because your pylons weren't fully retracted).

From this.

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

Again a lot of this is getting mixed together but this is the post that I originally responded to. It got cut because there is a limit to the number of posts within posts.

but it doesn't work that way, that is someones house rule to nerf the gb into uselessness


the way it ACTUALLY works is.
GB spends an action to fire, (recoil system automatically engages ) GB hits or near misses samas
samas action fires GB dodges and samas misses gb is NOT anchored as recoil suppression automatically disengaged


thats why I was suggesting the trigger might have a dual stage reaction
IE you pull the trigger ~1/4 the way from standby to fire, and the recoil suppression engages, pull the trigger the rest of the way, and gun fires.
you release the trigger (but keep it more than 1/4 depressed and squeeze again and the gun fires as recoil suppression never fully disengaged.
release the trigger more than 1/4 depressed, and the recoil suppression disengages

[Warshield73]

Where do you get that it is 3 attacks to fire the boom gun out of that?
Let's say P1 wins initiative. P1 has a GB. P2 is in a SAMAS.
1. Chooses to fire and rolls a 14. P2 dodges with a 14 (GM: near miss).
2 P2 chooses to shoot and rolls a 8. P1 attempts to dodge but the modified roll is a
4 (GM: You were unable to dodge because your pylons weren't fully retracted).

From this.

Make it cost an attack/action to engage or disengage the pylons. Done.

Again a lot of this is getting mixed together but this is the post that I originally responded to. It got cut because there is a limit to the number of posts within posts.

but it doesn't work that way, that is someones house rule to nerf the gb into uselessness

Yes, this was my point too.

[Zer0 Kay]

One of the things I was thinking about here is misfires. If you try and fire the boom gun and the pylons won't deploy for some reason they use the attack but the gun won't fire. This has happened to my players more than a few times.

Why wouldn't pylons deploy? That'd mean that the MD material would have to be so flexible/mushy AND so high in MD that after getting 1MD's worth of purchase the surface wouldn't be strong enough to hold up the GB... oh wait no that is deploy and fire but still falls back.

So it would mean that The material is so high in MD that 1MD couldn't make enough space for the drill head to penetrate as I figure MD material is strong enough to support a GB firing from say a tank hull even though the drill head was only able to penetrate six inches with the durability being able to tolerate the torque. Unless the tank was made of some organic flexible material or individually, easily removable plates. In the case of flesh the GB would fall over. In the case of the plates the GB wouldn't count as anchored. But in either of those cases the GB would still be able to fire.

Are you assuming that the GB's system can't fire, automatically, unless it registers that the pylon has reached full extension? I always figure that after extending through 1 MD worth of material and deploying the anchor it is already starting to retract the pylon in order to set the anchor and also determining if the material is a sufficient. If it is able to retract with the anchors deployed then the "ground" material would likely give away when firing. But that is just how it works in my head.

[Zer0 Kay]

for some reason when I saw this thread title today I thought of a breakdancing Glitter Boy

and then when I read about the drills it made me think of them being extended on an indestructible floor and the GB basically making stiltwalking rolls to use it to reach high places if their jetpack was broken adn they couldn't make jet-assisted leaps

Years ago, still under RMB, one of my PCs tried using his Boom Gun while standing on the deck of a pre-Rifts MDC submersible aircraft carrier that I barrowed from Robotech 1e. I told him they couldn't deploy through the deck and the entire table was saying the same thing, that he should be on stilts now.

then why do you have penalties to dodge for the pylons being deployed.

Because if the pylon is deployed it is going to be tough to dodge. If you have 5 attacks each one of yours occurs about every 3 seconds if your opponent also has 5 attacks his are happening NEARLY IMMEDIATELY to yours. Your getting a minus to dodge because your pylons haven't fully retracted yet OR because you haven't chosen to retract them.

This is actually my point here. You already have a system that must work perfectly and a penalty to dodge, requiring 3 attacks to fire the boom gun just once to me is ridiculous and it is clearly not part of the description.

I agree. No need for three actions, it isn't canon and all description of timing is ambiguous.

[Zer0 Kay]

Years ago, still under RMB, one of my PCs tried using his Boom Gun while standing on the deck of a pre-Rifts MDC submersible aircraft carrier that I barrowed from Robotech 1e. I told him they couldn't deploy through the deck and the entire table was saying the same thing, that he should be on stilts now.

So you don't think that on a 30x30 300 MDC (example not actual stat) plate that two laser drills doing 1 MD each would be able to bore out a whole that is, I figure, 6 inches deep and 3 inches in diameter in order to deploy the anchors?

You don't think the same 30x30 section that is securely connected to the rest of the ship would be strong enough to stabilize a GB while it is firing?

The way I figure if you stick a shovel into sand all the way to the shaft it will be able to resist a lot of force. If you bury it half way it is far less and if you barely stick the tip in it falls over by itself. The same shovel on a wood deck between the planks can stand a lot longer with far less of the shovel blade between the planks before the wood splinters and the shovel falls. With a metal floor even more so especially if the slot it is in was purposefully made for it and then it somehow expanded further to fit into that hole seamlessly.