Robot Combat Basic: no dodge?

[slade2501]

In the Ultimate Rifts rulebook, basic robot combat skill allows for dodge. Do you agree? I always liked the original rule that basic skill down not allow dodging, like the difference between a student driver and a professional stunt driver.
For me, Basic skill still means no dodge.

[Nekira Sudacne]

You're free to houserule as you want: but I see no problem with allowing basic to have a Dodge. Remember the RUE is a more complete overhaul of the system than just robot combat: in general Combat in Rifts is much deadlier, weapons have much higher average damages than they used to, missile volley's have gotten bigger, but most Robots remain with laughably tiny MDC totals compared to their size, often having barely more than available power armor. They had to start teaching everyone how to dodge because as weapon damages kept going up, all the pilots who didn't know how to dodge kept dying.

All houseruling that "robot combat basic can't dodge" would do is ensure nobody ever takes basic.

[Warshield73]

I prefer the new rules but truthfully I never treated this as no dodge allowed, I treated it as no additional bonus right from the beginning but I think that might have been due to the influence of 1e Robotech.

To me it never made sense that I could fire weapons, punch, parry, roll with punch but I can't even attempt to dodge. To use your analogy a student driver can still try to avoid an on coming car, they are just not as good at it as a pro.

[slade2501]

your not wrong. I personally think that the lethality of Rifts is a built in "Rocks fall, your all dead" for players who try to munchkin or combat monster. Your right, you have to play smart or die. But then also is seems too much like an instant OP to get into a 20ft tall multi ton robot monster and do dance moves without significant training.
That robot can take a few hits before the player might escape or use cover. Hell if its just infantry he can pick them up and throw them to end the fight. If he has any heavy weaponry, those infantry are suicidal to stay and fight.

Its more for me of a practical and realistic rule. While I love the rule of cool, if its TOO crazy people will feel cheated by an easy victory or rule abuse. In my campaigns, the player's enemies are real people: never suicidal unless called for, willing to retreat or surrender if the situation calls for it, willing to take prisoners unless driven mad, etc.

Also yes the very small MDC of some robots is kinda problematic these days, both mechanically and in a story stand point. But then I remind myself that 360 MDC main body for a 16ft robot isn't too bad (compared to a soldier with 60mdc body armor), and the pilot should be dodging his ass off or well supported by friends with their own weapons.

[slade2501]

I had the very same thought when reading those rules. Was it no BONIS to dodge, or NO dodge, I thought.

[Nekira Sudacne]

your not wrong. I personally think that the lethality of Rifts is a built in "Rocks fall, your all dead" for players who try to munchkin or combat monster. Your right, you have to play smart or die. But then also is seems too much like an instant OP to get into a 20ft tall multi ton robot monster and do dance moves without significant training.
That robot can take a few hits before the player might escape or use cover. Hell if its just infantry he can pick them up and throw them to end the fight. If he has any heavy weaponry, those infantry are suicidal to stay and fight.

Its more for me of a practical and realistic rule. While I love the rule of cool, if its TOO crazy people will feel cheated by an easy victory or rule abuse. In my campaigns, the player's enemies are real people: never suicidal unless called for, willing to retreat or surrender if the situation calls for it, willing to take prisoners unless driven mad, etc.

Also yes the very small MDC of some robots is kinda problematic these days, both mechanically and in a story stand point. But then I remind myself that 360 MDC main body for a 16ft robot isn't too bad (compared to a soldier with 60mdc body armor), and the pilot should be dodging his ass off or well supported by friends with their own weapons.

But is it too instant? Or rather, what is one skill "Worth". Medical Doctor is a skill that presumably indicates years of study and then years more of guided practice: it's not instant. But you can also learn how to swim in your spare time over one summer. The real problem is that Palladium's skill system gives no thought at all as to how much time and effort is required to learn a skill, vs. what the skill is worth mechanically: all skill selections take the same 1 slot with a bare handful of expections.

But my larger point is: if Robot Combat Basic means you can't dodge or fight well, nobody would keep putting out people with robot combat basic, because either they stop doing that, or they lose the war and get replaced by smarter generals.

A better rule, IMHO, is to elimate Robot Combat Basic entirely and just say Robot Combat takes two skills to learn with generic elite bonus's, and then let them spend a third slot specalizing in a particular line of robots or power armor as they wish. But if you can't fight well with a robot: nobody's going to let you pilot the multi-million dollar war machine. too expensive to give to amatures who can't avoid getting it blown up by dodging, don't you think?

[Orin J.]

i've always applied the dodge penalty for modern ranged weapons and required a sensory systems roll at the start of each combat round with the rate of failure dictating the odds someone's attack goes unnoticed because you're distracted myself, so generally the best dodging system for a robot to me has been "shoot them first".

[Nekira Sudacne]

i've always applied the dodge penalty for modern ranged weapons and required a sensory systems roll at the start of each combat round with the rate of failure dictating the odds someone's attack goes unnoticed because you're distracted myself, so generally the best dodging system for a robot to me has been "shoot them first".

But the dodge penalty only applys at ranges of 50 feet or less. Pretty common for adventuers on foot, but it's really hard to get that close to a giant robot without it shooting you first, so most of the time the penalty to dodge doesn't apply to robots as Giant robot fights rarely occur within 50 feet.

[Orin J.]

i've always applied the dodge penalty for modern ranged weapons and required a sensory systems roll at the start of each combat round with the rate of failure dictating the odds someone's attack goes unnoticed because you're distracted myself, so generally the best dodging system for a robot to me has been "shoot them first".

But the dodge penalty only applys at ranges of 50 feet or less. Pretty common for adventuers on foot, but it's really hard to get that close to a giant robot without it shooting you first, so most of the time the penalty to dodge doesn't apply to robots as Giant robot fights rarely occur within 50 feet.

sorry, meant the ones in the conversion book. forgot there were others (and with this system, can you blame me?). the idea that a laser is any easier to dodge at range is a little. silly to me anyways

[Nekira Sudacne]

i've always applied the dodge penalty for modern ranged weapons and required a sensory systems roll at the start of each combat round with the rate of failure dictating the odds someone's attack goes unnoticed because you're distracted myself, so generally the best dodging system for a robot to me has been "shoot them first".

But the dodge penalty only applys at ranges of 50 feet or less. Pretty common for adventuers on foot, but it's really hard to get that close to a giant robot without it shooting you first, so most of the time the penalty to dodge doesn't apply to robots as Giant robot fights rarely occur within 50 feet.

sorry, meant the ones in the conversion book. forgot there were others (and with this system, can you blame me?). the idea that a laser is any easier to dodge at range is a little. silly to me anyways

can you list a page number then? I just checked my copy of Conversion book one and it did have a section of dodging modern energy weapons, it said to think of it as a combination of moving and also seeing where they are aiming and moving out of the way before the laser fires, and didn't assign any penalty I could see.

[Axelmania]

In contrast I think I remember a bonus to strike when using robots at close ranges...