What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

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What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by HWalsh »

For me, it is the "True Atlantean Undead Slayer" I've not seen a game in 15 years (personally) that didn't have at least one of these.

They are played out...
They are overpowered...
They are simply too numerous...

For me, their oversaturation is such a turn off.

I'm super happy that I'm finally in a game where there isn't one. I was over the moon when I got the news.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Orin J. »

This post goes out to all the coalition special forces OCCs that exist exclusively so the CS has a perfect counter in the wings for every dang thing. stop making CS books, it's already way too many little offices of special groups nobody's going to be able to keep isolated running around.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Orin J. wrote:This post goes out to all the coalition special forces OCCs that exist exclusively so the CS has a perfect counter in the wings for every dang thing. stop making CS books, it's already way too many little offices of special groups nobody's going to be able to keep isolated running around.



Didn't you know? They can field over a million troops at the drop of a hat, so with say 10% of the military being Special Forces, they can afford to be extravagant.

I'm not overly fond of Palladium's take on vampires, and floopers are out there as well.
There are some OCCs I consider to be either pointless or just a re-done version of something else, but since most people don't play them I don't care.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

The text saying that someone that is not apart of the Race that a RCC is for, but says these other races can be that RCC too. It is Stupid. RCC's are suppose to be UNIQUE to that race.

Then there are the OCCs that are really PCCs.
(there are magic classes listed as PCCs but those are in MC)

The Changing Class rules when they are taken out of the context of the PF2 rules set. And how the Optional rules posted online are stupid when you consider that in the core rules about changing classes in the PF2 game PCCs can't be changed from, nor changed to. And how some people don't get that to stop being a PCC you stop being a Psychic (which in a way means the char died and came back as something different) and to BE a PCC the char hast to started being a PCC from the 1st thing. There are no 'buts' in the core changing class rules taken as a whole. They only cover OCCs and disallow PCCs from being changes from or to.

ERp...went slightly off topic...but this was a rant topic.
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Depending on the morphus NightSpawn/Bane. If tricked out to be a brick...it's too much, if barely having any bonuses then they are playable.

What I don't like are GMs that can't wrap their minds around that some people who play PB games FN hate Rifts. So they reject any char that is not a Rifts race or a Rifts Char Class.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Mack »

Paratrooper, for a few reasons.
1) A completely outdated form of assault in a world with electric jet packs. (Especially the e-clip powered one on CWC p104).
2) Immune to Horror Factor? Ridiculous.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

HWalsh wrote:For me, it is the "True Atlantean Undead Slayer" I've not seen a game in 15 years (personally) that didn't have at least one of these.

They are played out...
They are overpowered...
They are simply too numerous...

For me, their oversaturation is such a turn off.

I'm super happy that I'm finally in a game where there isn't one. I was over the moon when I got the news.


OTOH, been playing Rifts since it launched (though not so much the last 10 years due to not really table topping much and no one actually wanting to play Palladium 'cause of the abhorrent system)...

Ive seen..... maybe four Tatoo'ed men (of any variety). Not one was a True Atlantean.

Edit: updated much later:

I've seen plenty of people playing True Atlanteans, however. Just not T-men or Undead Slayers.
Last edited by Colonel_Tetsuya on Mon May 11, 2020 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Mack wrote:Paratrooper, for a few reasons.
1) A completely outdated form of assault in a world with electric jet packs. (Especially the e-clip powered one on CWC p104).
2) Immune to Horror Factor? Ridiculous.


It also invalidates pretty much every other Military-type Man At Arms OCC because of its OCC abilities.

The Immune to Horror Factor thing i just dont care about since Horror Factor is a garbage mechanic and was from day 1. It was supposed to represent the aura that supernatural evil radiates, and then everything and its brother got it. GUNS have it. But only the "Big Bore" guns - even though Naruni guns have WAY bigger bores.

So HF can go and die in a fire.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What I don't like are GMs that can't wrap their minds around that some people who play PB games FN hate Rifts. So they reject any char that is not a Rifts race or a Rifts Char Class.


Then dont play Rifts.

Despite the consistent lie that Palladium likes to shovel out there, the games are NOT universal, and never have been. Rules that exist in one game do NOT apply to other games unless they are also printed in that game, unless the GM chooses to adapt/convert them.

If you dont want to play Rifts, stop trying to shoehorn your Superhero/Nightbane/Other-not-really-compatible-with-Rifts (in rules OR the feel of the game) into Rifts.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by taalismn »

Orin J. wrote:This post goes out to all the coalition special forces OCCs that exist exclusively so the CS has a perfect counter in the wings for every dang thing. stop making CS books, it's already way too many little offices of special groups nobody's going to be able to keep isolated running around.


I am now picturing a CS version of Clerks, with the bored witless SpecOps types are lounging around the office/barracks trying to bring meaning into their lives because the specific threat they were created to handle has not shown up, proven too easy for them, or some other division has taken care of the matter before they could even pull their boots on and get out the door.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by The Beast »

Personally I hate the OCC system in general. I'd much rather have the skill selection be some sort of hybrid between the Skill Program system found in HU2 and a point-based system that lets you pick the skills you want.

I don't mind the RCC system as much though, at least when it comes to playing something that has roughly human-level intelligence but wouldn't necessarily have been educated at some point.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

That'd be a LONG list!!!
:D

I mean, I hate most of the New West OCCs because they're written under the impression that a cowboy is a drastically better gunman than a professional soldier.
And I hate the Native American OCCs because they're full of a bizarre mix of racial condescension and Noble Savage nonsense.

I hate Paratroopers for the reasons Mack already laid out in his post.

I hate Titan Juicers because they went insanely overboard with them, giving them Supernatural PS AND a giant boost to their PS score.

I hate all kinds of stuff for all kinds of reasons.
With OCCs, the main pattern that I have seems to be that I hate new OCCs that make older OCCs obsolete,
I hate OCCs that provide power without any balancing factor,
I hate OCCs that provide drastic bonuses based on regional stereotypes.
I hate OCCs that create (or embody) power creep.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by HWalsh »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What I don't like are GMs that can't wrap their minds around that some people who play PB games FN hate Rifts. So they reject any char that is not a Rifts race or a Rifts Char Class.


Then dont play Rifts.

Despite the consistent lie that Palladium likes to shovel out there, the games are NOT universal, and never have been. Rules that exist in one game do NOT apply to other games unless they are also printed in that game, unless the GM chooses to adapt/convert them.

If you dont want to play Rifts, stop trying to shoehorn your Superhero/Nightbane/Other-not-really-compatible-with-Rifts (in rules OR the feel of the game) into Rifts.


This!

If you don't want to play Rifts then don't play Rifts.

It's simple. This isn't complicated.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

taalismn wrote:
Orin J. wrote:This post goes out to all the coalition special forces OCCs that exist exclusively so the CS has a perfect counter in the wings for every dang thing. stop making CS books, it's already way too many little offices of special groups nobody's going to be able to keep isolated running around.


I am now picturing a CS version of Clerks, with the bored witless SpecOps types are lounging around the office/barracks trying to bring meaning into their lives because the specific threat they were created to handle has not shown up, proven too easy for them, or some other division has taken care of the matter before they could even pull their boots on and get out the door.
Office politics and interdivisional sniping eventually goes nuclear.



There's no such thing as a "witless SpecOps".
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Orin J. »

Fenris2020 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Orin J. wrote:This post goes out to all the coalition special forces OCCs that exist exclusively so the CS has a perfect counter in the wings for every dang thing. stop making CS books, it's already way too many little offices of special groups nobody's going to be able to keep isolated running around.


I am now picturing a CS version of Clerks, with the bored witless SpecOps types are lounging around the office/barracks trying to bring meaning into their lives because the specific threat they were created to handle has not shown up, proven too easy for them, or some other division has taken care of the matter before they could even pull their boots on and get out the door.
Office politics and interdivisional sniping eventually goes nuclear.



There's no such thing as a "witless SpecOps".


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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

HWalsh wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What I don't like are GMs that can't wrap their minds around that some people who play PB games FN hate Rifts. So they reject any char that is not a Rifts race or a Rifts Char Class.


Then dont play Rifts.

Despite the consistent lie that Palladium likes to shovel out there, the games are NOT universal, and never have been. Rules that exist in one game do NOT apply to other games unless they are also printed in that game, unless the GM chooses to adapt/convert them.

If you dont want to play Rifts, stop trying to shoehorn your Superhero/Nightbane/Other-not-really-compatible-with-Rifts (in rules OR the feel of the game) into Rifts.



This!

If you don't want to play Rifts then don't play Rifts.

It's simple. This isn't complicated.

While you say it may be simple and not complicated....but...
Very hard to do when the ONLY games being run are Rifts game. :quiet: yah right *nods sardonically*

EDIT: Part of the frustration is that rifts was made to bring in chars from the other PB games, and they don't 'get' that.
Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Wed May 13, 2020 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What I don't like are GMs that can't wrap their minds around that some people who play PB games FN hate Rifts. So they reject any char that is not a Rifts race or a Rifts Char Class.


Then dont play Rifts.

Despite the consistent lie that Palladium likes to shovel out there, the games are NOT universal, and never have been. Rules that exist in one game do NOT apply to other games unless they are also printed in that game, unless the GM chooses to adapt/convert them.

If you dont want to play Rifts, stop trying to shoehorn your Superhero/Nightbane/Other-not-really-compatible-with-Rifts (in rules OR the feel of the game) into Rifts.



This!

If you don't want to play Rifts then don't play Rifts.

It's simple. This isn't complicated.

While you say it may be simple and not complicated....but...
Very hard to do when the ONLY games being run are Rifts game. :quiet: yah right *nods sardonically*


While I'm all about a GM's right to forbid any characters they want to, for pretty much any reason,
I'm also of the opinion that "If you don't want to allow interdimensional characters from other settings into the game at least SOMETIMES, then don't play RIFTS."
Part of the whole point of the setting is so that we can have mutant animals, superheroes, knights, wizards, ninjas, superspies, and everything else in the megaverse, all in one place.
This doesn't mean that anything goes in every campaign, but it does mean that GMs should be reasonably willing to consider characters from other games/settings.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

The Beast wrote:Personally I hate the OCC system in general. I'd much rather have the skill selection be some sort of hybrid between the Skill Program system found in HU2 and a point-based system that lets you pick the skills you want.

I don't mind the RCC system as much though, at least when it comes to playing something that has roughly human-level intelligence but wouldn't necessarily have been educated at some point.


Hmmm... I did it with 2nd edition, I wonder if I could do it with Palladium? Or would it be a case of "It's easier to just play this in Savage Worlds"?
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by HWalsh »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:What I don't like are GMs that can't wrap their minds around that some people who play PB games FN hate Rifts. So they reject any char that is not a Rifts race or a Rifts Char Class.


Then dont play Rifts.

Despite the consistent lie that Palladium likes to shovel out there, the games are NOT universal, and never have been. Rules that exist in one game do NOT apply to other games unless they are also printed in that game, unless the GM chooses to adapt/convert them.

If you dont want to play Rifts, stop trying to shoehorn your Superhero/Nightbane/Other-not-really-compatible-with-Rifts (in rules OR the feel of the game) into Rifts.



This!

If you don't want to play Rifts then don't play Rifts.

It's simple. This isn't complicated.

While you say it may be simple and not complicated....but...
Very hard to do when the ONLY games being run are Rifts game. :quiet: yah right *nods sardonically*


It's still simple.

I didn't say it wasn't unfortunate.

Rifts is a setting, as long as it fits in the setting it generally works.

The problem is that a person playing a Nightbane or Superhero can disrupt the setting and by extension disrupt the campaign.

Why?

They're now the unique snowflake.

"You don't know anything about me or my world! Quick fawn over me as my level of importance is artificially raised!"

Not saying EVERYONE is like that - You might not be - But many people are.

But if you just want to play Palladium fantasy but you're trying to force yourself into a Rifts game - That's not super cool.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Hotrod »

In general, I agree with most of KC's dislikes. However, I have a few specific ones and one category of character class that irk me.

The specifics:

The Body Fixer serves no purpose, since squishy S.D.C. people who get hurt in an M.D.C. world either need a cyber-doc, magic restoration, or a spatula. I've never seen or heard anyone play one. Ever.

The Elemental Fusionist. Basic book O.C.C.'s should come with everything you need to play them. When RUE tells me to get the Book of Magic to see/use this basic book O.C.C.'s class abilities, that frustrates me.

The Cyber-Knight.
I hate Zen Combat for reasons of both lore (it gives them disproportionate anti-tech power) and crunch (I find it impossible to implement as written), though I do love the class's overall lore.

Outside RUE:
O.C.C.'s and R.C.C.'s that get held back outside a specific, remote, isolated location. Some examples:
-Any Wormwood O.C.C. that uses Wormwood symbiotes (which don't work/die in other dimensions), any exotic-type magic user who can only learn new magic spells by going home to (insert remote/isolated place here).
-NGR military types whose experience requirements to level up go up when they're not in the NGR military (Triax 1, p156).
-Whale and dolphin R.C.C.'s.
-Anything from Mutants in Orbit (since they basically auto-die when they come to Earth)

It would be interesting to look through the books to see how many versions there are of O.C.C.'s that amount to "Infantry soldier," "commando/special forces" "bandit," and "Robot/Power armor pilot" with nothing particularly special to distinguish them.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Orin J. wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Orin J. wrote:This post goes out to all the coalition special forces OCCs that exist exclusively so the CS has a perfect counter in the wings for every dang thing. stop making CS books, it's already way too many little offices of special groups nobody's going to be able to keep isolated running around.


I am now picturing a CS version of Clerks, with the bored witless SpecOps types are lounging around the office/barracks trying to bring meaning into their lives because the specific threat they were created to handle has not shown up, proven too easy for them, or some other division has taken care of the matter before they could even pull their boots on and get out the door.
Office politics and interdivisional sniping eventually goes nuclear.



There's no such thing as a "witless SpecOps".


i've never wanted to post a smug anime girl JPG more in my life.



I'm not sure what that's all about, but I was in 10th Mountain Division; witless people don't make it.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Hotrod wrote:In general, I agree with most of KC's dislikes. However, I have a few specific ones and one category of character class that irk me.

The specifics:

The Body Fixer serves no purpose, since squishy S.D.C. people who get hurt in an M.D.C. world either need a cyber-doc, magic restoration, or a spatula. I've never seen or heard anyone play one. Ever.


When i was going through and updating the information for Augmented Assaults and their doctor, i settled on Body Fixer because they have a better skill selection than a Cyber Doc. They can still do everything a Cyber Doc can do, for the most part (they cant take one skill, i think, that prevents them from getting full bonuses to MD in Cybernetics), and also still do other useful (non-HP-restoring) things, and are WAY BETTER than a Cyber Doc at taking care of no cybernetic problems, which dont always have to involve the PCs.

When your group rolls up to town, you can earn a lot of favor by setting up a free clinic, etc.

So, i wouldn't say they are totally useless, as they are quite versatile in their skill selections and are ALSO STILL A DOCTOR, but "healing" in Rifts... yeah. Pretty useless for the most part.

Ive seen.. maybe two. Ever.

The Elemental Fusionist. Basic book O.C.C.'s should come with everything you need to play them. When RUE tells me to get the Book of Magic to see/use this basic book O.C.C.'s class abilities, that frustrates me.


And it sucks, too. Its just awful.


The Cyber-Knight.
I hate Zen Combat for reasons of both lore (it gives them disproportionate anti-tech power) and crunch (I find it impossible to implement as written), though I do love the class's overall lore.


I hate the NuKnights. If i run a game, its the OCC from the RMB, which is still quite potent.

Outside RUE:
O.C.C.'s and R.C.C.'s that get held back outside a specific, remote, isolated location. Some examples:
-Any Wormwood O.C.C. that uses Wormwood symbiotes (which don't work/die in other dimensions), any exotic-type magic user who can only learn new magic spells by going home to (insert remote/isolated place here).
-NGR military types whose experience requirements to level up go up when they're not in the NGR military (Triax 1, p156).
-Whale and dolphin R.C.C.'s.
-Anything from Mutants in Orbit (since they basically auto-die when they come to Earth)


I'd add to this:

Any OCC that has limitations of "because they just dont like to" instead of a mechanical limitation or an actual good reason. Like... "Juicers NEVER use the (Wellington Viper Machinegun that is better than a railgun at half the weight) because they dont lie it". YOu mean.. you couldn't balance something, so you just threw out a completely stupid line about how a class that would love this thing wont use it because reasons. There are a ton of OCCs that have "limitations" that basically amount to "because the character is apparently stupid or crazy".

It would be interesting to look through the books to see how many versions there are of O.C.C.'s that amount to "Infantry soldier," "commando/special forces" "bandit," and "Robot/Power armor pilot" with nothing particularly special to distinguish them.


Dozens.

Its why during my slowly going revamp (though headway has been going better since ive got less gigs to do with two of my gig jobs being shut down due to the 'rona) im trying to make sure that the need for superflous OCCs is removed via a use of "each OCC should have something special" other than just skills, and regional templates that can add skills to a basic OCC without having to make a new OCC. (As well as as small selection of skills from your background - between 4-6, treated as secondary skills)

Where im going for pilots is that most Pilot OCCs will have an ability based on their piloting type (Robot, PA, Air Vehicles, Ground Vehicles) that basically gives them the Elite training for that type of vehicle, and that is the only way to get it.

Basically, vehicle combat raining will still have two levels (Basic & Expert), but the "Elite" bonuses will only be available (on top of the Expert training) to the OCCs for that type of pilot. Elite bonuses will not be an entirely new chart (unlike basic or expert) but will be additional bonuses listed under each PA.

Similarly, Grunts/Foot Soldiers might have an ability that allows them to provide bonuses to their team, that only they get, etc. Still super early days on this one.

So itll go more like:

Select a Background (gives you 4-6 secondary-level skills, usually based around how you grew up; might be a piloting skill (or riding), a single WP that makes sense, and a few basic skills representing a basic profession (Basic Mechanics, Cooking, etc). Your basic literacy level will be represented here as well (but may be overriden by your OCC).

Select an OCC
- Select a regional template if it makes sense. (Im from the NGR, we're all literate here, etc).
- OCC gives you a special ability unique to that OCC/type of oCC.
-- for some OCCs this might simply be nature of the OCC (like LLW, Tatooed Man) and/or seem smaller than some others. But everyone should have something unique-ish.

Like i said, still early days.

But the goal would be to eliminate the 20 redundant "Grunt/Soldier" OCCs.

Only make a new OCC if there's something REALLY different.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Hotrod »

Fenris2020 wrote:I'm not sure what that's all about, but I was in 10th Mountain Division; witless people don't make it.


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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by taalismn »

Fenris2020 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
I am now picturing a CS version of Clerks, with the bored witless SpecOps types are lounging around the office/barracks trying to bring meaning into their lives because the specific threat they were created to handle has not shown up, proven too easy for them, or some other division has taken care of the matter before they could even pull their boots on and get out the door.
Office politics and interdivisional sniping eventually goes nuclear.



There's no such thing as a "witless SpecOps".


I should perhaps have hyphenated the line 'bored-witless'. They're not bored and witless, they've been bored to the point of starting to get into trouble for lack of something outside drilling to do.
My apologies if that statement as originally phrased has inadvertently offended anybody who has the bravery and expertise to be part of a RL specialized military unit or organization.
Though I imagine that also in RL if you train and train for specific duties and you never actually have to 'see the elephant' during your career, that counts as a win(just as I'm sure that all those Strategic Air Command air crews breathe.a sigh of relief at retirement that they never had to fly a nuke mission in anger).


Anyway...
Yeah, I've never known anybody to be a Body Fixer in any campaign I've heard of. It just seemed one of those OCCs seemed necessary for sustainable adventuring groups, but whose player could be iff on personal business during a game, and not be missed, as the GM could run them to patch up the other PCs. It's nice that it's available, in the nod to the 'we need somebody to stitch the remains of the other players back together from time to time', but the CyberDoc has much more of a dynamic, messing with cutting edge systems, going for them.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.
I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.
The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies. Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage, but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.
It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by HWalsh »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.
I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.
The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies. Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage, but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.
It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.


Depends on the character.

My CK was a CS citizen as a child. He doesn't judge people on who they used to be, just on who they are.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

HWalsh wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.
I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.
The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies. Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage, but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.
It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.


Depends on the character.

My CK was a CS citizen as a child. He doesn't judge people on who they used to be, just on who they are.



I wonder how many Cyber-Knights end up dead who trust people who say they aren't with the CS anymore....
Playing in character, one who lives past 3rd level probably doesn't trust a "former CS soldier" easily.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Orin J. »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.
I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.
The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies. Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage, but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.
It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.


i've always used them as templates for other larger(ish) faction's standing armies, like lazlo and the ishempeg. i can't imagine they'd have a wildly different approach to military training outside of the obvious lack of indoctrination through fear.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

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Necromancers, playing with dead things and body parts is just icky.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Orin J. wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.
I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.
The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies. Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage, but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.
It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.


i've always used them as templates for other larger(ish) faction's standing armies, like lazlo and the ishempeg. i can't imagine they'd have a wildly different approach to military training outside of the obvious lack of indoctrination through fear.



I'd think that non-CS nations would have OCCs more like the Merc Soldier types, and their Special Forces would be the OCC in Mercenaries. You might be surprised at just how military doctrine actually varies from one nation to the next, even in regular units; different world Special Forces have some very different training doctrines and rules of engagement. The CS having a different military from everyone else doesn't bother me; same with NGR and Free Quebec.

An OCC I just remember I have no use for is the Elemental Fusionist.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

I seem to recall quite a few nations--especially in early books--that listed their soldiers as "equivalent of CS Grunt" and such, indicating that the Coalition OCCs were perfectly appropriate for other nations.

I DO agree that many smaller nations, kingdoms, etc. would be more likely to use militias and/or mercenaries than full-blown soldiers, BUT it's handy that the CS stats can be used for other stuff when appropriate.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by thorr-kan »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).

A commando-trained psychic consultant...

"The Warrant Officer's a decent hand-to-hand combatant. And he knows more about the woohoo stuff than anybody outside Psi Battalion."

I'll admit the RUE Tech Officer has more skills, but the original has more flexibility.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs.


So, dont. Not all CS Soldiers are pseudo-Nazis. In fact, most of them aren't. Its like Kevin has written on the topic like three or four times. Beyond that, however...

Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.


Why? There are literally tens of thousands of deserters out there. Or more.

On top of that, we're told exhaustively that those OCCs can be used as a base for any other military force. You can take the Grunt OCC and never have been part of the CS. In fact, in the RMB, that was the default. It wasnt assumed that every random merc grunt was a former CS military trooper. WB1, WB2, WB3, SA1, SA2 explicitly say "just roll up a CS soldier OCC and add the following skills" to make equivalent characters in those settings.


I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.


He still could, since it is STILL implied that the societies of the different States that are actually independent from Chi-Town (Iron Heart and Arkansas/El Dorado, and FQ before it left) are actually different and they even employ different vehicles and the like (which is how the CS got Helos - Iron Heart made them because they couldn't make new PAs).

The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies.


... not sure you know what you're on about here. A sustained campaign of genocide lasting over 100 years seems like they are going out of their way to make enemies.

Theyre a lot more survivable as a nation because they are fighting an enemy that literally shouldn't be able to hurt them at all. 300,000 Gargoyles fly towards NGR airspace? Dead before they get within 200 miles of the border. Shot down in flocks by LRM bombardment from within the NGR.

Shot to death by fighters that can attack them from outside the range of anything the Gargoyles have and are so fast the Gargoyles can NEVER hope to catch them - in fact, EVERY flying PA, Robot, and Fighter they have is 4+x faster than the Gargoyles and can literally loiter around flying in lazy circles and shoot at Gargoyles forever without exposing themselves to return fire.

MILLIONS of Dyna Bots and the bigger robot DV-40 Hunter Killers (millions of EACH).

Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage,


At ranges that mean you will be long dead before you roll your "BETTAR DAMIJE" weapons into range. And theyre single shots and can be aimed and used for called shots.

but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.


It already does, as it can fight retreating and kill hundreds of gargoyles and gurgoyles before they can even get into range. And that's the first one, in Triax 1. The new one has arm-mounted Boom Guns.

It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.


And are all available for someone who was never in the CS Military, by default.

I can literally cite dozens of instances of "equivalent to a CS X OCC" off the top of my head, including the fact that Wolfen can take equivalents of ALL the CS Military OCCs, including being a Psi Hound. (One assumes this is a possible manifestation of a Wolfen psychic).
Last edited by Colonel_Tetsuya on Tue May 12, 2020 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Fenris2020 wrote:I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.



To an extent, though, that goes to the problem mentioned earlier... 9000 OCCs that boil down to "Infantry Soldier."
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Orin J. wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:You know, I can do a lot with just an old-style, RMB, CS Technical Officer. The flexibility of the MOS skills means you can use it to make a power armor trooper, an infantry soldier... pretty much anything you need.


That OCC gets overlooked quite often. You can even be a passable doctor or Almost-An-Operator (sans Operator's special abilities).



I find in the games I've experienced that the CS OCCs get over-looked because people don't like playing pseudo-NAZIs. Granted, you can play a CS member who's gone rogue, but the other PCs will, if playing in character, have a hard time believing/ trusting such a person.
I might have gone a slightly different way with at least one of the CS city-states.
The NGR is, without plot-armor, a lot more survivable as a nation; they don't go out of their way to make enemies. Granted some of their weapons do underwhelming amounts of damage, but add another zero on the end of the "guns" on their super-bot, and it would actually do what the fluff says it would do.
It's a pity about the route the writers went, a lot of the CS OCCs are really good.


i've always used them as templates for other larger(ish) faction's standing armies, like lazlo and the ishempeg. i can't imagine they'd have a wildly different approach to military training outside of the obvious lack of indoctrination through fear.



I'd think that non-CS nations would have OCCs more like the Merc Soldier types, and their Special Forces would be the OCC in Mercenaries. You might be surprised at just how military doctrine actually varies from one nation to the next, even in regular units; different world Special Forces have some very different training doctrines and rules of engagement. The CS having a different military from everyone else doesn't bother me; same with NGR and Free Quebec.


FQ really doesn't though. They use the standard CS OCCs for everything other than their specialized units (GBs and the GB support units). Their grunts are CS Grunts, their RPA pilots are Elite RPAs, their drop ship pilots are RPA Aces. They dont appear to have Commandos or Special Forces (using Military Specialist instead), but thats a possibly incorrect assumption just because we haven't seen NPC statted out from FQ with those OCCs, but they appear to use all the other OCCs, including the Nautical Commando (something they do way better than the CS at large).

Also, Palladium is BIG on the "other places have the same classes or abilities". Note the AT training in Heroes of Humanity. Almost all of them have a line like "can also be learned from an elite mercenary company or in places like NG and Lazlo". They just happen, as a company to do both the "just use the same OCC and call it "from X"" route AND sometimes the "and we made 10 more Grunt OCCs too, for no reason", instead of sticking to one path or the other.

An OCC I just remember I have no use for is the Elemental Fusionist.


That thing is the worst. The worst. I seriously glaze over every time i get to those pages.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:
An OCC I just remember I have no use for is the Elemental Fusionist.


That thing is the worst. The worst. I seriously glaze over every time i get to those pages.


Which fnord pages? I fnord don't fnord see fnord this fnord OCC fnord anywhere?"
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Orin J. »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
An OCC I just remember I have no use for is the Elemental Fusionist.


That thing is the worst. The worst. I seriously glaze over every time i get to those pages.


it's an interesting idea, but it's a huge waste of space for very little reward. it'd be fine in a rifter or something.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Orin J. wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
An OCC I just remember I have no use for is the Elemental Fusionist.


That thing is the worst. The worst. I seriously glaze over every time i get to those pages.


it's an interesting idea, but it's a huge waste of space for very little reward. it'd be fine in a rifter or something.



A Warlock with two life-signs works much better.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Warshield73 »

There is no OCC that I hate. I had a player in college run a RMB Body Doc and he had a lot of fun and I built as many adventures around him as any other OCC.

The thing I do agree with is that there are WAYYYYYYYY too many OCCs in Rifts. Especially military OCCs and especially CS OCCs. I always thought that it would be better if the CS had like 5 or 6 OCCs and then each new book could just make a variant with a different MOS, maybe a different selection of related skills and a slightly different focus. The same applies for all the versions of the Wilderness Scout.

Now there are plenty of OCCs that don't work in certain campaigns but that is something the players work out before we do character creation.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Rogerd »

Fenris2020 wrote:I'm not overly fond of Palladium's take on vampires, and floopers are out there as well.


Who does like Palladium vampires, they're terrible.
Now wampyr I like.

As has been said I am not keen at all on the OCC / RCC / PCC to be honest, but the fluff surrounding them is great. As is the fluff generally. If need be just re-write some stuff about the class, let players select one occupation, and say 5-8 extra skills, and select power level. It also allows me to select if that person has 'MDC' equipment or or not.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Rogerd wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:I'm not overly fond of Palladium's take on vampires, and floopers are out there as well.


Who does like Palladium vampires, they're terrible.

I did. The first I saw of them was 1e Rifts Vampire Kingdom but I liked them and used them write away. They were powerful, but died quick. They were familiar, but a different. I thought they worked for the setting and I loved the fact that nobody tried to run a vampire PC. Now in the age of Twilight when people expected their vamps to sparkle I LOVED Palladium vampires.

Fenris2020 wrote:Now wampyr I like.

They are OK. I have never seen anyone in a Nightbane setting stick with them as they are severely underpowered and limited compared to the other options and especially compared to the bad guys, but the description of them is cool.

I think the Rifts Vampire SB and the Rifter have a few better options personally.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Rogerd »

Warshield73 wrote:They are OK. I have never seen anyone in a Nightbane setting stick with them as they are severely underpowered and limited compared to the other options and especially compared to the bad guys, but the description of them is cool.

I think the Rifts Vampire SB and the Rifter have a few better options personally.


I remember that Rifter had some better options, although i cannot remember which one had the vampires in now...so many Rifters :)
When I think Wampyr I tend to associate them with Underworld Vampires, and they were pretty cool.

That said I have been thinking about characters in NB (and this is down to me playing Unisystem a lot at one point) and came to conclusion it would be fairer if all preternatural PC's could use talents, or purchase magic. And because I also liked some stuff from Hunter the Vigil (Dread Powers are sooo cool) i added those to the mix for everyone.

But that is just me I suspect :lol:
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by The Beast »

Rogerd wrote:I remember that Rifter had some better options, although i cannot remember which one had the vampires in now...so many Rifters :)


Rifter 49.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Ziggurat the Eternal »

The mass of nearly identical man at arms occs. The ridiculous cyberknight update. Psionics in general with how they work, or dont work.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

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The Crazy, especially the RUE version, where ALL of them are The Mask
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

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Mark Hall wrote:The Crazy, especially the RUE version, where ALL of them are The Mask

I have a soft spot for Crazies, and basically ignore that part of the update.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Hotrod »

Mark Hall wrote:The Crazy, especially the RUE version, where ALL of them are The Mask

Yup. Crazies are an interesting concept, but in practice they are effectively a built in excuse for their players to act like trolls. They are the Kender of Rifts.
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Orin J. »

Hotrod wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:The Crazy, especially the RUE version, where ALL of them are The Mask

Yup. Crazies are an interesting concept, but in practice they are effectively a built in excuse for their players to act like trolls. They are the Kender of Rifts.


your players need an excuse?......lucky....
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Re: What OCC/RCC do you absolutely hate?

Unread post by Rogerd »

The Beast wrote:Rifter 49.


Thanks you very much.

Mark Hall wrote:The Crazy, especially the RUE version, where ALL of them are The Mask


They're in Nightbane too I believe. A perfect addition lol
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