Concealment and Smugglers

[ryokoryu]

a friend of mine and I were talking about his experience trying and absolutely failing to play a smuggler. the main issues came up with the fact that just about all their skills related to actually smuggling things had abysmally low chances to succeed. I had noted that city rats were not great at smuggling but they are not much better, the lack of skills outside a city hurts them but a low level city rat teamed up with anyone knowing where they were going outside a city started off with a better selection of skills and at better bonuses to do the job and that got me thinking about concealment. Who has the best base concealment skill starting at level 1 not including powers or IQ bonuses. Who would make the best smuggler starting out. Please none of this anyone can be a good smuggler if they roleplay it out/gain enough levels with the right skills. Looking for best out of the box level 1 and read as written rules. So many GMs I have had lately play it read as written. I would need to give him an OCC that would be subject to this read as written mentality.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The best smuggler would be a temporal wizard who can at level 1 can install dimensional envelopes into whatever vehicle you are smuggling with which can only be detected by other Temporal mages and maybe shifters if they learned a very nonstandard spell that isn't on their normal invocational list. Meaning the usual Psi-Stalker or Dog Boy magical senses don't work if you think they hired some.

Only way to get around the terrible level 1 starting skills is to pick a class that can bypass the skill entirely.

[Curbludgeon]

A Natural/Genius from Nightbane could begin with a 98% if that was their primary focus. A HU Stage Magician gets a 30% bonus. I haven't found too many non-RCC bonuses yet that exceed 10%, with examples being a PFRPG Assassin (14%), Atlantean Monster Hunter (15%), and Nightbane Psi-Shadow (15%). A Rift Runner has a unique spell based around this concept, but I know that's outside what is being asked for.

[Warwolf]

a friend of mine and I were talking about his experience trying and absolutely failing to play a smuggler. the main issues came up with the fact that just about all their skills related to actually smuggling things had abysmally low chances to succeed. I had noted that city rats were not great at smuggling but they are not much better, the lack of skills outside a city hurts them but a low level city rat teamed up with anyone knowing where they were going outside a city started off with a better selection of skills and at better bonuses to do the job and that got me thinking about concealment. Who has the best base concealment skill starting at level 1 not including powers or IQ bonuses. Who would make the best smuggler starting out. Please none of this anyone can be a good smuggler if they roleplay it out/gain enough levels with the right skills. Looking for best out of the box level 1 and read as written rules. So many GMs I have had lately play it read as written. I would need to give him an OCC that would be subject to this read as written mentality.

It is a common misconception to look at low base percentile skills and assume that this means a character is incapable. The way that skills are supposed to work in Palladium is that under normal circumstances, anyone who has a skill will succeed in its use. Percentiles are only intended to be used in special circumstances like clutch situations. I think I get why folks have a hard time grasping this, as all of my players and I had the same misconception for years. It's easy to assume that just because the numbers are there we're supposed to use them all the time, but that's not really the case.

A good example is the Pilot: Automobile skill. On a dry, sunny day driving normal speeds, it's highly unlikely that someone will fail to get from point A to point B of their own accord. However, if that same person is in a high-speed chase on slick back roads in the middle of the night... that's when skill rolls would be needed. Obviously you wouldn't want a 15-year-old permit driver for the latter scenario, as even a professional driver could be hard-pressed not to end up wrapped around a tree.

Now apply that to smugglers. Your level 1 smuggler isn't the character you want trying to smuggle a magical artifact into Chi-Town, as they're almost certain to end up a colorful stain on the wall. Instead, perhaps they're running loads of kids books into a lightly patrolled settlement in western Missouri and their boss has a friend or two in the local guard (in case the kid screws things up) that can bail them out of trouble. That would be a more suitable job for a beginning smuggler, letting them get some experience before working up to higher-stakes scenarios.

[Mr. Jays]

Your level 1 smuggler isn't the character you want trying to smuggle a magical artifact into Chi-Town, as they're almost certain to end up a colorful stain on the wall.

[ryokoryu]

a friend of mine and I were talking about his experience trying and absolutely failing to play a smuggler. the main issues came up with the fact that just about all their skills related to actually smuggling things had abysmally low chances to succeed. I had noted that city rats were not great at smuggling but they are not much better, the lack of skills outside a city hurts them but a low level city rat teamed up with anyone knowing where they were going outside a city started off with a better selection of skills and at better bonuses to do the job and that got me thinking about concealment. Who has the best base concealment skill starting at level 1 not including powers or IQ bonuses. Who would make the best smuggler starting out. Please none of this anyone can be a good smuggler if they roleplay it out/gain enough levels with the right skills. Looking for best out of the box level 1 and read as written rules. So many GMs I have had lately play it read as written. I would need to give him an OCC that would be subject to this read as written mentality.

It is a common misconception to look at low base percentile skills and assume that this means a character is incapable. The way that skills are supposed to work in Palladium is that under normal circumstances, anyone who has a skill will succeed in its use. Percentiles are only intended to be used in special circumstances like clutch situations. I think I get why folks have a hard time grasping this, as all of my players and I had the same misconception for years. It's easy to assume that just because the numbers are there we're supposed to use them all the time, but that's not really the case.

A good example is the Pilot: Automobile skill. On a dry, sunny day driving normal speeds, it's highly unlikely that someone will fail to get from point A to point B of their own accord. However, if that same person is in a high-speed chase on slick back roads in the middle of the night... that's when skill rolls would be needed. Obviously you wouldn't want a 15-year-old permit driver for the latter scenario, as even a professional driver could be hard-pressed not to end up wrapped around a tree.

Now apply that to smugglers. Your level 1 smuggler isn't the character you want trying to smuggle a magical artifact into Chi-Town, as they're almost certain to end up a colorful stain on the wall. Instead, perhaps they're running loads of kids books into a lightly patrolled settlement in western Missouri and their boss has a friend or two in the local guard (in case the kid screws things up) that can bail them out of trouble. That would be a more suitable job for a beginning smuggler, letting them get some experience before working up to higher-stakes scenarios.

Probably because so many GMs have you roll almost every skill every time if it isn't a common skill like driving. Putting a bandaid on a cut, roll your medical doctor diagnosis skill then the treatment skill.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

It is a common misconception to look at low base percentile skills and assume that this means a character is incapable. The way that skills are supposed to work in Palladium is that under normal circumstances, anyone who has a skill will succeed in its use. Percentiles are only intended to be used in special circumstances like clutch situations.

Source? Because that isn't what the rules say, at all.

I think I get why folks have a hard time grasping this, as all of my players and I had the same misconception for years. It's easy to assume that just because the numbers are there we're supposed to use them all the time, but that's not really the case.

Except you really are.

No, you dont roll Pilot: Automobile to drive down the street, but you do any time your skill might matter (high speeds, risky maneuvers, etc); same for your Concealment skill. Any time someone is trying to find something concealed (that you concealed)... then yeah, you roll. You dont automatically succeed.

Unless you can find me some spot in the rules that says otherwise, your interpretation is NOT canon.

A good example is the Pilot: Automobile skill. On a dry, sunny day driving normal speeds, it's highly unlikely that someone will fail to get from point A to point B of their own accord. However, if that same person is in a high-speed chase on slick back roads in the middle of the night... that's when skill rolls would be needed. Obviously you wouldn't want a 15-year-old permit driver for the latter scenario, as even a professional driver could be hard-pressed not to end up wrapped around a tree.

Now apply that to smugglers. Your level 1 smuggler isn't the character you want trying to smuggle a magical artifact into Chi-Town, as they're almost certain to end up a colorful stain on the wall. Instead, perhaps they're running loads of kids books into a lightly patrolled settlement in western Missouri and their boss has a friend or two in the local guard (in case the kid screws things up) that can bail them out of trouble. That would be a more suitable job for a beginning smuggler, letting them get some experience before working up to higher-stakes scenarios.

In either case, he'd have to roll his concealment skill, if the other guys are actively looking for concealed items.

Period/full stop.

It wont make him any more likely to succeed.

Palladium's skill system has always had this problem - you're absolutely pitiful at skills you're supposedly highly trained in, until you've got 6+ (or more for some skills) levels behind you. Its never been a good representation of how skilled people would actually be "fresh out of school" or "fresh out of training" (Unless you think the average surgeon screws up 40% of the time and kills his patient).

The OP has simply recognized this flaw.

And as other have pointed out, often times the best way to do a thing is to actually NOT be the OCC that supposedly "does the thing" the best.

"learned" Mages are by FAR the best smugglers in the entire world. If you give me a picture of a spot, i can be ~10-100 miles away and put a (literal) ton of Contraband down in a location literally anywhere. And thats just the simple stuff, not even mentioning dimensional pockets and some Temporal chicanery.