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Is a vampire destroyed by water weapons?
Yes if brought below 0 hit points by the appropriate amount. 63%  63%  [ 12 ]
No even if brought to the negative hit point requirement dissolving by water requires several minutes of immersion. 37%  37%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 19
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 Post subject: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:44 pm
  

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Our group is headed to the Vampire Kingdoms on a mission and a question came up about destroying a vampire by using water weapons. If the vampire is reduced beyond the required negative hit point requirement is the vampire destroyed? I tend toward yes it is but I would like to hear what others think.


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:46 pm
  

D-Bee

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I selected the first one without actually looking it up.

Im not really a fan of how Vampires are presented in Palladium in general, so im not 100% up on how it is supposed to work.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:15 pm
  

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Mlp7029 wrote:
Our group is headed to the Vampire Kingdoms on a mission and a question came up about destroying a vampire by using water weapons. If the vampire is reduced beyond the required negative hit point requirement is the vampire destroyed? I tend toward yes it is but I would like to hear what others think.


Negative. All reducing them beyond the HP requirement does is put them into a Coma, they will always regenerate unless specifically destroyed by one of the very specific listed ways to destroy them. no other methods work.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:52 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:
Our group is headed to the Vampire Kingdoms on a mission and a question came up about destroying a vampire by using water weapons. If the vampire is reduced beyond the required negative hit point requirement is the vampire destroyed? I tend toward yes it is but I would like to hear what others think.


Negative. All reducing them beyond the HP requirement does is put them into a Coma, they will always regenerate unless specifically destroyed by one of the very specific listed ways to destroy them. no other methods work.

I believe it is very specific that the water must be running to do damage to a vamp so a submersion in a tub or something should not even do damage. Am I wrong about that?

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:07 pm
  

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Yeah that's one thing that always annoyed me the most is how wonky vampires are in rifts. Our group instituted their own rules regarding vampires in that if you stake a vampire in the chest, its dusted instantly, no survival. If you chop off the head with a silver or wood weapon its also instantly dusted. This makes dealing with the little buggers a tad easier. :twisted:


Emerald


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:00 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Warshield73 wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:
Our group is headed to the Vampire Kingdoms on a mission and a question came up about destroying a vampire by using water weapons. If the vampire is reduced beyond the required negative hit point requirement is the vampire destroyed? I tend toward yes it is but I would like to hear what others think.


Negative. All reducing them beyond the HP requirement does is put them into a Coma, they will always regenerate unless specifically destroyed by one of the very specific listed ways to destroy them. no other methods work.

I believe it is very specific that the water must be running to do damage to a vamp so a submersion in a tub or something should not even do damage. Am I wrong about that?


Correct, Vampire Kingdoms Revised spells it out. the Vampire must be COMPLETELY submerged 100% from head to toe in water AND the water must be running and fairly clean/pure in order to kill. Simply using running water that is not 100% immersion (Like a TW Water Gun), or dunking 100% in still water (like a pool or bath tub) will both do damage but can never kill.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:32 am
  

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There's an argument to be made regarding what flow rate constitutes running water. Is a pool with an active pump filter running for this purpose, or is it simply circulating? Is a bathtub that's getting full due to a slow drain running? If, when submerged in a pool, a pump's output line is shoved in a vamp's face is that sufficiently running?


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:38 am
  

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Curbludgeon wrote:
There's an argument to be made regarding what flow rate constitutes running water. Is a pool with an active pump filter running for this purpose, or is it simply circulating? Is a bathtub that's getting full due to a slow drain running? If, when submerged in a pool, a pump's output line is shoved in a vamp's face is that sufficiently running?


WB1r, page 80 wrote:
Being immersed in clean, clear, still water, like a swimming pool or horse trough, causes discomfort and but only inflicts 1d6 points of damage per melee round and cannot kill a vampire even when Hit Points are reduced to zero or below.


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:17 am
  

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Yeah, quotes, far out. Is circulating water still, or running? Is a wave pool larger in volume and flow than any stream more or less entitled to be considered running? The examples given in Vampire Kingdoms are divided incidentally into natural sources and constructed containers. Is that a factor in anyone's opinion as to the definition of running in this context?


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:50 am
  

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Emerald MoonSilver wrote:
Yeah that's one thing that always annoyed me the most is how wonky vampires are in rifts. Our group instituted their own rules regarding vampires in that if you stake a vampire in the chest, its dusted instantly, no survival. If you chop off the head with a silver or wood weapon its also instantly dusted. This makes dealing with the little buggers a tad easier. :twisted:


Emerald

It is wonky because it is based more on old vampire lore and not modern science.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:55 am
  

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The Beast wrote:
Curbludgeon wrote:
There's an argument to be made regarding what flow rate constitutes running water. Is a pool with an active pump filter running for this purpose, or is it simply circulating? Is a bathtub that's getting full due to a slow drain running? If, when submerged in a pool, a pump's output line is shoved in a vamp's face is that sufficiently running?


WB1r, page 80 wrote:
Being immersed in clean, clear, still water, like a swimming pool or horse trough, causes discomfort and but only inflicts 1d6 points of damage per melee round and cannot kill a vampire even when Hit Points are reduced to zero or below.

I think in this case running water is water that is as a whole moving towards 1 point, such as a river or stream. (After all there is always some movement in a large body of water.)

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:26 pm
  

Wanderer

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For the bathtub argument I see it this way. If it's like a normal modern bath you can use it, if it is more like an old western style or older bath that doesn't flow into a plumbing system then no. Follow me here, you dunk vamp A in modern plumbing style goodness and you dunk vamp B in an old-style tub. Let's say for this argument you are dunking them in a tub made of MDC materials and you are strong and durable enough to hold them in there until they go coma mode. Ok now the water keeps ticking damage and at some point they are dissolved in the water, still can regenerate once they dry out right? now pull the plug in vamp A's tub and vamp B's tub, turn the first tub's water on and now the water is flowing. the second part is important, you must have that water on or some of that residue is gonna stick to the tub and with no incoming water it isn't flowing. Vamp B is gonna be goop all over the floor but when it dries out he gets to live again. So if you coma a vamp in an old style tub the best solution is to wait for sun-up and open the windows wide and have him sun-dried.


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:58 am
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
I believe it is very specific that the water must be running to do damage to a vamp so a submersion in a tub or something should not even do damage. Am I wrong about that?

The central problem we face is that we aren't given a minimum speed for what constitutes "running", and you introduce motion to water when you touch it unless the water is ice.

Getting thrown into a bathtub should briefly accelerate certain portions of that water faster than a lot of streams.


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:11 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
I believe it is very specific that the water must be running to do damage to a vamp so a submersion in a tub or something should not even do damage. Am I wrong about that?

The central problem we face is that we aren't given a minimum speed for what constitutes "running", and you introduce motion to water when you touch it unless the water is ice.

Getting thrown into a bathtub should briefly accelerate certain portions of that water faster than a lot of streams.

I am the first person to say that Palladium in general and Rifts in particular lacks specificity but I really don't think this is one of those cases. This falls into the category of "how often is it likely to happen and do we really need a rule on it?" and my answer would be no.

I mean I am really having trouble imagining a situation where even my group's hatchling dragon would wrestle a vampire into a bathtub.

Running water is a phobia for vamps, they don't want to cross it. They give the example of a river so we have a general understanding of speed for that and the ripples caused by touching it or skipping a stone across it don't count. Squirt guns do damage, it's listed. How fast does water have to move to do damage, squirt gun speed. If you find yourself wrestling a vampire in a swimming pool and someone turns on the lap pool, wing it using the squirt gun damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:52 pm
  

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Greetings and Salutations. Per Vampire Kingdoms, New Revised Edition, water guns should kill a vampire.

Vampire Kingdoms, New Revised Edition; page 80 wrote:
Running Water
Running water can destroy a vampire.
Being immersed and held down in a river, stream ...[snip] When Hit Points are 21 below zero, the water-logged monster melts into oblivion.
[snip]
Even rainfall can hurt and kill a vampire exposed to its cleansing effects.
[snip]
Water weapons. A child's toy water pistol or squirt gun takes on a lethal meaning to vampires. The water is in motion and therefore, considered to be "running" water.

So we're told "running water can destroy a vampire." In case there's any ambiguity to what "destroy" means, we're also told Rain can "kill" a vampire. We're also told water weapons are "lethal" to vampires and considered "running" water (which "destroys" vampires). All in all seems very clear to me. Squirt guns can potentially kill a vampire, though the vampire can easily safe guard against such attacks (as is also discussed in the section).

As for the "running water" side discussion. Swimming pools and horse troughs are clearly labeled in Vampire Kingdoms as "still water." Nightbane (not a Rifts book) also considers "lakes" to be still water. In Nightbane, a shower is also shown to destroy a vampire (while it was staked). To quote Wikipedia: "A lake is an area filled with water, localized in a basin, surrounded by land, apart from any river or other outlet that serves to feed or drain the lake." So, from what I can tell, if the water is in a container that's not draining/being refreshed, it's "still" water. The best way I can figure to explain is: The water must be clean (this is stated in the books). The vampire effectively taints the water. So while it may hurt, it will NOT kill. With rain, squirt guns, and rivers, the water hitting the vampire is constantly being replaced by new, fresh water while the tainted water is washing away to somewhere else.

All right, that's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:43 am
  

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The Beast wrote:
WB1r, page 80 wrote:
Being immersed in clean, clear, still water, like a swimming pool or horse trough, causes discomfort and but only inflicts 1d6 points of damage per melee round and cannot kill a vampire even when Hit Points are reduced to zero or below.


This reminds me of a question I had a long while back. Say you have a pond, pretty much still water. But (assuming magic chains/whatever) you have a vampire tied up half in the water to a boat that then starts motoring around the pond at a good clip. Does that mean they take moving water damage or still water damage?


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:47 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Mlp7029 wrote:
Our group is headed to the Vampire Kingdoms on a mission and a question came up about destroying a vampire by using water weapons. If the vampire is reduced beyond the required negative hit point requirement is the vampire destroyed? I tend toward yes it is but I would like to hear what others think.


Negative. All reducing them beyond the HP requirement does is put them into a Coma, they will always regenerate unless specifically destroyed by one of the very specific listed ways to destroy them. no other methods work.

I believe it is very specific that the water must be running to do damage to a vamp so a submersion in a tub or something should not even do damage. Am I wrong about that?



The only time water isn't running is when it's frozen.

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:50 pm
  

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Prysus wrote:
Greetings and Salutations. Per Vampire Kingdoms, New Revised Edition, water guns should kill a vampire.

Vampire Kingdoms, New Revised Edition; page 80 wrote:
Running Water
Running water can destroy a vampire.
Being immersed and held down in a river, stream ...[snip] When Hit Points are 21 below zero, the water-logged monster melts into oblivion.
[snip]
Even rainfall can hurt and kill a vampire exposed to its cleansing effects.
[snip]
Water weapons. A child's toy water pistol or squirt gun takes on a lethal meaning to vampires. The water is in motion and therefore, considered to be "running" water.

So we're told "running water can destroy a vampire." In case there's any ambiguity to what "destroy" means, we're also told Rain can "kill" a vampire. We're also told water weapons are "lethal" to vampires and considered "running" water (which "destroys" vampires). All in all seems very clear to me. Squirt guns can potentially kill a vampire, though the vampire can easily safe guard against such attacks (as is also discussed in the section).

As for the "running water" side discussion. Swimming pools and horse troughs are clearly labeled in Vampire Kingdoms as "still water." Nightbane (not a Rifts book) also considers "lakes" to be still water. In Nightbane, a shower is also shown to destroy a vampire (while it was staked). To quote Wikipedia: "A lake is an area filled with water, localized in a basin, surrounded by land, apart from any river or other outlet that serves to feed or drain the lake." So, from what I can tell, if the water is in a container that's not draining/being refreshed, it's "still" water. The best way I can figure to explain is: The water must be clean (this is stated in the books). The vampire effectively taints the water. So while it may hurt, it will NOT kill. With rain, squirt guns, and rivers, the water hitting the vampire is constantly being replaced by new, fresh water while the tainted water is washing away to somewhere else.

All right, that's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.


Good post!
You are an asset to the forums, and I was happy to see your post BEFORE I started looking all that up myself.
:)

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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:58 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
This falls into the category of "how often is it likely to happen and do we really need a rule on it?" and my answer would be no.

I mean I am really having trouble imagining a situation where even my group's hatchling dragon would wrestle a vampire into a bathtub.

The introductory story for Wamyprs in Nightbane is actually a story about one of them killing a vampire by forcing them into a shower and making them 'run down the drain' if I recall.

Just because grappling rules are the bane of most RPGs doesn't mean it should be thought of as unlikely to happen.

Warshield73 wrote:
Running water is a phobia for vamps, they don't want to cross it. They give the example of a river so we have a general understanding of speed for that and the ripples caused by touching it or skipping a stone across it don't count.

Rivers flow at varying speeds. Ripples in a pond (perhaps WAVES from a helicopter falling into a previously docile lake) could move faster than water does in slow streams.

We don't actually know that ripples don't do damage: it just might be that damage could be proportionate to factors like speed and volume so that the damage caused by slow/small ripples is so minor it falls below a threshold of 1 HP or the threshold of their regeneration speed.

Warshield73 wrote:
Squirt guns do damage, it's listed. How fast does water have to move to do damage, squirt gun speed. If you find yourself wrestling a vampire in a swimming pool and someone turns on the lap pool, wing it using the squirt gun damage.

Squirt guns don't have a fixed speed. For example, Super Soakers seem to fire at ~50ft/s while "Steady Stream" at ~22ft/s judging by this chart I came across at Tom's Guide

Weirdly enough the Renegade fires just as far as a Super Soaker despite having barely more than half the velocity at ~28ft/s

Prysus wrote:
Swimming pools and horse troughs are clearly labeled in Vampire Kingdoms as "still water."

It'd be running if I dumped the horse trough on top of a vampire though... even if gravity is pulling the water onto the vampire at exactly the same speed the vampire would fall into that water at =/

Plus in a swimming pool, couldn't someone make splashing motions with their arms to push waves at a vampire?

Prysus wrote:
Nightbane (not a Rifts book) also considers "lakes" to be still water.

Even during a tornado?

Prysus wrote:
In Nightbane, a shower is also shown to destroy a vampire (while it was staked).

Glad I'm not the only one who remembered this! *checks pg 188* I completely forgot about the "I rammed a piece of chair through his chest" part...

The strange part of that story in retrospect is how "huntress the street walker" (is what I'll call her) knows just what to do, but that's because I forgot about the last paragraph (before alignment) which mentions "instinctively knows all the strengths and weaknesses of true vampires" which is ... INCREDIBLY useful, really... or should be...

In most games, you'd need to pass Lore : Demons and Monsters (or Lore: Vampires, where present) to know that kind of stuff. Especially in nigthbane if you were playing 'realistic' characters (who don't know about what's happening) they wouldn't have lore skills like that and would have to pick them up at higher levels.

Not so useful in Metagame-type stuff where everyone conveniently plays sorcerers who jsut happen to have lore to know vamp weaknesses, depriving Wampyrs of their niche.

I mean... do NORMAL vamps (wild/secondary) even have that 100% lore that Wamps do?

Prysus wrote:
To quote Wikipedia: "A lake is an area filled with water, localized in a basin, surrounded by land, apart from any river or other outlet that serves to feed or drain the lake." So, from what I can tell, if the water is in a container that's not draining/being refreshed, it's "still" water. The best way I can figure to explain is: The water must be clean (this is stated in the books). The vampire effectively taints the water. So while it may hurt, it will NOT kill. With rain, squirt guns, and rivers, the water hitting the vampire is constantly being replaced by new, fresh water while the tainted water is washing away to somewhere else.

This sounds like in the sense that constant flow would disperse the vampire faster than it can pull itself together, while still water allows them to keep consolidated even if damaged into unconsciousness.

Of course there is the "last little bit of HP" problem where I can just smack a vampire with a baseball bat (normally can't kill it) until it's 20 below zero, and then just do 1 HP with some running water (pathetic squirt gun, spit on it?) to push it over the edge.

It feels off, I'd be tempted to track a 'HP lost to running water' pool separately and require THAT to go HP+21 before death.


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:14 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
Prysus wrote:
Swimming pools and horse troughs are clearly labeled in Vampire Kingdoms as "still water."

It'd be running if I dumped the horse trough on top of a vampire though... even if gravity is pulling the water onto the vampire at exactly the same speed the vampire would fall into that water at =/

Plus in a swimming pool, couldn't someone make splashing motions with their arms to push waves at a vampire?

Prysus wrote:
Nightbane (not a Rifts book) also considers "lakes" to be still water.

Even during a tornado?

Greetings and Salutations. Well, there's two ways I can think of to look at this.

1: Running water is a state of the water, and the weakness is mystical (not science based).
2: Running water is just the easiest, most common method for a continuous source of clean water.

If 1, then the speed of movement is irrelevant. It would be like someone running, and someone else is on a Segway. Even if the Segway is moving an equal (or faster) pace than the runner, the person on the Segway is NOT running. So splashing water in a pool or lake has no bearing on the mystical weakness, as the water is not considered running. As this is mystical, and not science based, no further explanation should really be needed.

If 2, then you have to figure out the rate of dispersal. For example, if someone pees in a pool next to you ... will splashing your arms stop the pee from touching you? Will splashing the water faster clean the pool? At what rate will splashing your arms clear the pool around the original culprit? While maybe a bit of a disgusting metaphor, it's something I think most people can easily imagine. Or you can think of the marine dye marker used for emergency rescue. That's expected to last 30 minutes to an hour, and if simply a little splashing dispersed it in seconds (fast enough that you want to kill a vampire, for example) it wouldn't be very useful.

One take on #2 is that running water will spread the vampire out over a greater distance, and with the water it becomes too much for the vampire to pull himself back together. On the other hand, still water (such as a swimming pool) is small enough that all the parts of the vampire are still present, and can eventually reform. However this, to me, wouldn't explain the squirt gun still being able to kill a vampire.

So my take has been that it's the new, fresh, clean water that's damaging the vampire. Running water is considered "cleansing." As such, when the water touches the vampire and being cleansed, the vampire is also touching the water and tainting it (we'll consider this a supernatural effect for now, and there may be no visual signs of contamination). Eventually, it's like just taking a bath in muddy water. Maybe you're cleaner (minor damage), but you're not clean either. With running water (or really any source that's constantly supplying new, fresh water while taking away the old, dirty water) can kill a vampire. So squirt guns, rain, and rivers will constantly berate a vampire with fresh, new water. Meanwhile something like a pool, the taint doesn't really go away and it's just the same water (muddy bath).

So, for example, with the pond and speed boat scenario someone mentioned above: If the person driving the boat was dragging the vampire in a spiral pattern that didn't overlap with the previous path, I'd argue this could kill a vampire (going with take #2). However, if the person driving the boat was just doing donuts, then it wouldn't kill the vampire regardless of speed. Yes, some water is probably being displaced, but I'm not convinced it would be enough to avoid the taint (as I've been referring to it).

Those may not be perfect analogies, but it's something to start with. Of course, anything other than Take #1 (mystical weakness that defies science) is probably a house rule anyways. Farewell and safe journeys.

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Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:47 pm
  

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Knight

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm
Posts: 5811
VKRp81 is a bit of a mess in some ways. A couple things stand out...

    1) "Water" is a major heading, with subheadings "Holy Water" and "Running Water"... yet "still water" for some reason is mentioned under the 'running' second instead of getting it's own...

    2) "cannot kill a vampire even when Hit Points are reduced to zero or below." shouldn't this be "-21 or below" since that's what's needed for RUNNING water to finish them off?

"swamp water that doesn't move or barely moves" seems to imply that faster-than-barely moving SWAMP water could hurt vampires...

"Barely" seems to acknowledge it can be MOVING (just barely) but still considered "stagnant".

So "still" water, by comparison, probably does not mean "absolutely still" (because face it: that's IMPOSSIBLE) but more like "relatively still".

In respect to "running" water (moving fast, a metaphorical sprint) the "still water" is a metaphorically "walking water" so to speak. The "is in motion and there, fore considered to be "running" has to be taken with a grain of salt here. After all "barely moves" swamp water is ALSO in motion but NOT considered to be 'running'.

Another important thing, since we know snow doesn't hurt vampires, even though snow IS moving, is that the motion that matters is on the molecular level, since on that level, the snow is not moving in respect to itself, it is locked in a crystal lattice.

Since fog/mist also do not hurt them, we know also that movement alone is not enough (because fog/mist molecules are even more mobile in respect to each other) but also concentration or volume. Liquid seems to be the happy medium between required concentration and required mobility while solid (ice) wins 1st fails 2nd while gas (dog) fails 1st wins 2nd. Water wins both.

B76 also stands out as interesting to me:
"Swim as a Fish will impart the ability to swim, but does not protect the vampire from the water and running water kills vam­pires"

Is that perhaps meant to imply that the act of swimming (even through "still" water) would change that into running water? Or is it only talking about the dangers of swimming through rivers rather than lakes?

Pg 61 also has something interesting: running water does HALF DAMAGE to 15th level vamps. Natural abilities usually say "holy water and running water inflict double damage to Hit Points" so now it's just holy which does double, I guess. (Would holy + running water normally do 4x?)

Prysus wrote:
On the other hand, still water (such as a swimming pool) is small enough that all the parts of the vampire are still present, and can eventually reform. However this, to me, wouldn't explain the squirt gun still being able to kill a vampire.

Well I guess the idea is that if it's enough squirts, it's like getting squirted with a river?

One counter-example I can think of is a jacuzzi: it constantly circulates the water, but it doesn't really GO anywhere, you're still dealing with the same water, so the vampire bits (while being constantly moved about) aren't being spread out over a large distance.

Prysus wrote:
So my take has been that it's the new, fresh, clean water that's damaging the vampire. Running water is considered "cleansing."

Isn't this sort of a fantasy though? If you're taking a drink downstream from a bear den, the bear might have just peed in the water that's flowing toward you.

I mean maybe some of the urea hits the rocks on the streambed and cleans them? But it's more the deeper molecules that hit rocks, not the upper ones.

Prysus wrote:
As such, when the water touches the vampire and being cleansed, the vampire is also touching the water and tainting it (we'll consider this a supernatural effect for now, and there may be no visual signs of contamination). Eventually, it's like just taking a bath in muddy water.

If this were the case then wouldn't we expect something like a master vampire could throw a bunch of wild vampires into a river to temporarily foul it and then swim across as if it were an insect-infested swamp?

Prysus wrote:
So, for example, with the pond and speed boat scenario someone mentioned above: If the person driving the boat was dragging the vampire in a spiral pattern that didn't overlap with the previous path, I'd argue this could kill a vampire (going with take #2). However, if the person driving the boat was just doing donuts, then it wouldn't kill the vampire regardless of speed. Yes, some water is probably being displaced, but I'm not convinced it would be enough to avoid the taint (as I've been referring to it).

Probably a little better at displacement than a jacuzzi though since there aren't any actual walls


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 Post subject: Re: Destroying vampires
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:21 pm
  

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Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:11 am
Posts: 282
Prysus wrote:
Greetings and Salutations. Per Vampire Kingdoms, New Revised Edition, water guns should kill a vampire.

Vampire Kingdoms, New Revised Edition; page 80 wrote:
Running Water
Running water can destroy a vampire.
Being immersed and held down in a river, stream ...[snip] When Hit Points are 21 below zero, the water-logged monster melts into oblivion.
[snip]
Even rainfall can hurt and kill a vampire exposed to its cleansing effects.
[snip]
Water weapons. A child's toy water pistol or squirt gun takes on a lethal meaning to vampires. The water is in motion and therefore, considered to be "running" water.

So we're told "running water can destroy a vampire." In case there's any ambiguity to what "destroy" means, we're also told Rain can "kill" a vampire. We're also told water weapons are "lethal" to vampires and considered "running" water (which "destroys" vampires). All in all seems very clear to me. Squirt guns can potentially kill a vampire, though the vampire can easily safe guard against such attacks (as is also discussed in the section).

As for the "running water" side discussion. Swimming pools and horse troughs are clearly labeled in Vampire Kingdoms as "still water." Nightbane (not a Rifts book) also considers "lakes" to be still water. In Nightbane, a shower is also shown to destroy a vampire (while it was staked). To quote Wikipedia: "A lake is an area filled with water, localized in a basin, surrounded by land, apart from any river or other outlet that serves to feed or drain the lake." So, from what I can tell, if the water is in a container that's not draining/being refreshed, it's "still" water. The best way I can figure to explain is: The water must be clean (this is stated in the books). The vampire effectively taints the water. So while it may hurt, it will NOT kill. With rain, squirt guns, and rivers, the water hitting the vampire is constantly being replaced by new, fresh water while the tainted water is washing away to somewhere else.

All right, that's all for now. Farewell and safe journeys.

Thanks for the reference that says water weapons are considered running water. My GM is leaning towards running water taking a vampire below the -21 hit points will destroy them.


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