Laser sword?

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Thom001
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Laser sword?

Unread post by Thom001 »

Can we have them/use them/ talk about them in rifts/ on the forums? Not trying to flout any rules. Just curious about this type of weapon existing in game context and use.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Wilks makes one. Rifts: Merc Ops.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Rifts WB 14 New West, Pg 209 has the Wilks laser knife you could probably go from that. There are tons of energy based melee weapons in the form of plasma weapons or even the tri-beam weapon in South America 2.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Warshield73 wrote:Rifts WB 14 New West, Pg 209 has the Wilks laser knife you could probably go from that. There are tons of energy based melee weapons in the form of plasma weapons or even the tri-beam weapon in South America 2.


Or.. just use the actual Laser Sword in Merc Ops.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:Rifts WB 14 New West, Pg 209 has the Wilks laser knife you could probably go from that. There are tons of energy based melee weapons in the form of plasma weapons or even the tri-beam weapon in South America 2.


Or.. just use the actual Laser Sword in Merc Ops.

Yeah I missed your post when I replied. Since it can't parry anything I've never had a player ask for one so I forgot all about it.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Techno-wizard Lightblades and Flame Swords also exist. And, of course, Cyber-Knights are psychic do-gooders who have psi-swords.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Thom001 »

Oh wow. :shock: I didnt realize there were this many examples. I only knew of vibro swords. Thanks.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

We're nerds, there are always work arounds. :p


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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

To compile a simple(r) list, for (sword) melee weapons that aren't straight-up "Magic Weapons" like a Rune Weapon or similar, you're basically looking at:

Common to North America:
Vibro Weapons (RMB/RUE, others)
Kisentite Swords (Sourcebook 4: CS Navy, from Queenston Harbor)
Skorblades (Rifts: Merc Ops in the TW armaments section)
TW Flame Blade (RMB/RUE)
TW Lightblade (RMB/RUE)
Vibro-Chainsword (NG2, listed under the Dog Boy Power Armor but available separately)
TW Ice Blade (GMG, others)
Wilks Laser Dagger (New West) and Laser Sword (Merc Ops)

There are various specific TW swords from Federation of Magic, but ive never really been able to figure out how they are TW items, and they all really smack of being just normal magic items (and are more powerful than some Rune Weapons) They are all also super expensive.

There are also other TW Melee Weapons (a few staffs, a mace or two, rods, etc).

TW Energy Projector Sword (dont remember the actual name) - unique to the Mystic Knights of the White Rose and only works for a Mystic Knight.

As noted, Cyber Knights are basically the Rifts version of Jedi, especially since their super-ninja re-write in SoT4/RUE, and have an on-demand class ability Psi-sword.

Most Psychic PCCs/OCCs can eventually learn Psi-sword (which is a lot more powerful than the Cyber Knight version), even the Mystic and Mystic Knight. Mind Melter and Psi-Warrior are the two best North American PCCs with a Psi-Sword though (as they also get plenty of other Super Psi Powers to back it up).

South America has the Amaki Psi-Blade (enhances the psionic/Cyber-Knight/Amaki Duelist Psi-Sword power(s)) and the Blast Sword (basically an energy-clip powered sword that releases energy blasts on strike).

Atlantis/Anywhere there are Splugorth things for sale has Kittani Plasma weapons (swords, axes, lances, even a whip i think). These are available in N/A if the GM is OK with following the canon on that (the Splugorth allow a certain amount of their stuff to "fall of the truck" and find its way to the NA Black Market, same in Europe).

Phase World has the Phase Sword (basically a seriously juiced up version of a Vibro Weapon) that could be available in certain places in NA (Arzno, Queenston Harbor, and Lazlo all have Pyramids and do trade or have access to Center on Phase World).

There may be other special sword type weapons out there, those are just the ones im sure of.

If you're going for that "Im sorta a Jedi" look and a sword that is obviously not a physical blade weapon, your best bets are:

TW Flaming Sword (many classes can even start with it, and i honestly cant see most GMs telling you no if you wanted to trade one of your weapons for one and are a class that can use it - I.E. have PPE or ISP to power it).

TW Lightblade (has the benefit of being usable by ANY class - since it is powered off of Hit Points - but that also makes it limited-use (cant use it too much or you can kill yourself). A few classes can maybe start with them (GMs call on "a TW weapon of choice" here) but they also aren't super expensive and are easily available in Arzno and Merctown. Im sure a TW could cook up a version that runs on ISP/PPE as well; the reason the RUE version runs on HP is because the developers wanted ANYONE to be able to use it since it is a great anti-vampire weapon.

Wilks Laser Sword Actually hits like a truck, but you can't parry with it (it isn't solid), so its got some downsides. If you fight with a shield, though, you're A-OK (or paired weapons and use a sword you can parry with in your off hand).

Be a Master Psychic PCC (or a Mystic) than can get Psi-sword. Wont be able to get it till level 3 (4 as a Mystic or Mystic Knight) as anything other than a Demigod or Godling, though, unless you're a PCC that gets a special version like the Amaki Duelist from South America 2

Be a Cyber Knight

Be a Mystic Knight of the White Rose and use their TW blade that turns their innate energy blasts into an energy sword. (They all start with one). You could also be a "traditional" Mystic Knight and use one of these if the GM is OK with you having acquired it somehow (since traditional Mystic Knights hunt and kill the White Rose Knights on sight, its feasible you got it from a White Rose Knight you've killed).

Kittani Plasma Sword - but this has a solid core that is merely surrounded by Plasma, so it may not be what you're looking for.

Also, ALWAYS take fencing if you're going to have your character have a serious "Sword" type side-arm. That extra 1D6 Damage is NOT to be sneezed at.

If you're not looking for "its gotta be an energy sword", by far the best Sword on the list that is not a Rune Weapon or one of the Hyper-powerful TW swords (Deathbringer Blade or Battle Fury Blade) from Federation of Magic is the Phase Sword.

Why, you ask?

Because its the only MDC blade weapon (its actually variable - it does SDC to SDC targets and MDC to MDC targets) that allows you to add your SDC damage bonus to MDC attacks.

Yeah, you read that right.

So if you have a high PS, even if it isn't Supernatural or anything.. your PS damage bonus applies to attacks with the Phase Sword. So its really easy to hit like a semi truck with it.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.


I dont disagree with the laser sword making no sense. But i was pointing out because it's there.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.


I dont disagree with the laser sword making no sense. But i was pointing out because it's there.

was commenting on the topic as a whole then to anyone's post.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.


I dont disagree with the laser sword making no sense. But i was pointing out because it's there.

was commenting on the topic as a whole then to anyone's post.

Lots of things in rifts are not in line with physics.
The sonic boom of the boom gun does not match how a sonic boom works. They are not stationary affects but travel with super sonic travel. (more closely matches pressure wave of a explosive propellant.)
The projectile speed of the Abrams main gun is close to that of a boom gun but the damage of 120mm cannon kinetic kill rounds are lower. ect.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by taalismn »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.


That's reminding me of a TimeLoop fanfic thread on SpaceBattles where Luke Skywalker runs into Tony Stark, who has made his own light saber/contained plasma blade, and it's pointed out that more than a few cultures across the multiverse have created them...the Gundamverse simply makes them bigger, and Arthur Dent uses a smaller one to simultaneously slice and toast bread...
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:To compile a simple(r) list, for (sword) melee weapons that aren't straight-up "Magic Weapons" like a Rune Weapon or similar, you're basically looking at:

Common to North America:
Vibro Weapons (RMB/RUE, others)
Kisentite Swords (Sourcebook 4: CS Navy, from Queenston Harbor)
Skorblades (Rifts: Merc Ops in the TW armaments section)
TW Flame Blade (RMB/RUE)
TW Lightblade (RMB/RUE)
Vibro-Chainsword (NG2, listed under the Dog Boy Power Armor but available separately)
TW Ice Blade (GMG, others)
Wilks Laser Dagger (New West) and Laser Sword (Merc Ops)

There are various specific TW swords from Federation of Magic, but ive never really been able to figure out how they are TW items, and they all really smack of being just normal magic items (and are more powerful than some Rune Weapons) They are all also super expensive.

There are also other TW Melee Weapons (a few staffs, a mace or two, rods, etc).

TW Energy Projector Sword (dont remember the actual name) - unique to the Mystic Knights of the White Rose and only works for a Mystic Knight.

As noted, Cyber Knights are basically the Rifts version of Jedi, especially since their super-ninja re-write in SoT4/RUE, and have an on-demand class ability Psi-sword.

Most Psychic PCCs/OCCs can eventually learn Psi-sword (which is a lot more powerful than the Cyber Knight version), even the Mystic and Mystic Knight. Mind Melter and Psi-Warrior are the two best North American PCCs with a Psi-Sword though (as they also get plenty of other Super Psi Powers to back it up).

South America has the Amaki Psi-Blade (enhances the psionic/Cyber-Knight/Amaki Duelist Psi-Sword power(s)) and the Blast Sword (basically an energy-clip powered sword that releases energy blasts on strike).

Atlantis/Anywhere there are Splugorth things for sale has Kittani Plasma weapons (swords, axes, lances, even a whip i think). These are available in N/A if the GM is OK with following the canon on that (the Splugorth allow a certain amount of their stuff to "fall of the truck" and find its way to the NA Black Market, same in Europe).

Phase World has the Phase Sword (basically a seriously juiced up version of a Vibro Weapon) that could be available in certain places in NA (Arzno, Queenston Harbor, and Lazlo all have Pyramids and do trade or have access to Center on Phase World).

There may be other special sword type weapons out there, those are just the ones im sure of.

If you're going for that "Im sorta a Jedi" look and a sword that is obviously not a physical blade weapon, your best bets are:

TW Flaming Sword (many classes can even start with it, and i honestly cant see most GMs telling you no if you wanted to trade one of your weapons for one and are a class that can use it - I.E. have PPE or ISP to power it).

TW Lightblade (has the benefit of being usable by ANY class - since it is powered off of Hit Points - but that also makes it limited-use (cant use it too much or you can kill yourself). A few classes can maybe start with them (GMs call on "a TW weapon of choice" here) but they also aren't super expensive and are easily available in Arzno and Merctown. Im sure a TW could cook up a version that runs on ISP/PPE as well; the reason the RUE version runs on HP is because the developers wanted ANYONE to be able to use it since it is a great anti-vampire weapon.

Wilks Laser Sword Actually hits like a truck, but you can't parry with it (it isn't solid), so its got some downsides. If you fight with a shield, though, you're A-OK (or paired weapons and use a sword you can parry with in your off hand).

Be a Master Psychic PCC (or a Mystic) than can get Psi-sword. Wont be able to get it till level 3 (4 as a Mystic or Mystic Knight) as anything other than a Demigod or Godling, though, unless you're a PCC that gets a special version like the Amaki Duelist from South America 2

Be a Cyber Knight

Be a Mystic Knight of the White Rose and use their TW blade that turns their innate energy blasts into an energy sword. (They all start with one). You could also be a "traditional" Mystic Knight and use one of these if the GM is OK with you having acquired it somehow (since traditional Mystic Knights hunt and kill the White Rose Knights on sight, its feasible you got it from a White Rose Knight you've killed).

Kittani Plasma Sword - but this has a solid core that is merely surrounded by Plasma, so it may not be what you're looking for.

Also, ALWAYS take fencing if you're going to have your character have a serious "Sword" type side-arm. That extra 1D6 Damage is NOT to be sneezed at.

If you're not looking for "its gotta be an energy sword", by far the best Sword on the list that is not a Rune Weapon or one of the Hyper-powerful TW swords (Deathbringer Blade or Battle Fury Blade) from Federation of Magic is the Phase Sword.

Why, you ask?

Because its the only MDC blade weapon (its actually variable - it does SDC to SDC targets and MDC to MDC targets) that allows you to add your SDC damage bonus to MDC attacks.

Yeah, you read that right.

So if you have a high PS, even if it isn't Supernatural or anything.. your PS damage bonus applies to attacks with the Phase Sword. So its really easy to hit like a semi truck with it.

Adding to this:
South America 2 has the Arkhon Tri-Beam Sword (classification wise it'd be like the Kittani Plasma Sword)

Naruni Mecha Knight Power Armor (Mercenaries) has an energy sword blade (several other 'bot/pa weapons also exist being called "energy" insert weapon type, but are basically Kittani Plasma like, where this Naruni example is an energy blade).

There are a few Bio-Wizard devices/implants that also grant Psi-Sword (ex. WB2's Psionic Rod/Scepter and The Enslaver), technically a Gizmoteer (SA) can also produce a Psi-Tech device to create a Psi-Sword. The CS Psionic Weapon Gauntlet in WB12 also can be used to create a Psi-Sword.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

taalismn wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.


That's reminding me of a TimeLoop fanfic thread on SpaceBattles where Luke Skywalker runs into Tony Stark, who has made his own light saber/contained plasma blade, and it's pointed out that more than a few cultures across the multiverse have created them...the Gundamverse simply makes them bigger, and Arthur Dent uses a smaller one to simultaneously slice and toast bread...


Energy/plasma blades are fine. they are theoretically possible. With only the engineering to be worked out.
(Gundam's Beam Sabers are a type of plasma/particle sword. Thankyou very much.)

Lasers as 'blades' (yes a very specific idea)...there is no 'engineering to be worked out'. Anything that is a laser is a laser beam. :roll: Which is why I find the ""Laser swords"" and ""laser knives"" stupid.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Lasers as 'blades' (yes a very specific idea)...there is no 'engineering to be worked out'. Anything that is a laser is a laser beam. :roll: Which is why I find the ""Laser swords"" and ""laser knives"" stupid.


The could work similarly to Shadowrun's monofilament swords.

Rather than a truly monomolecular blade, the monofilament sword took a length of monowire and suspended it between the guard and the tip. Swing the sword, and it leads with monowire, and cuts things that way.

A true "laser sword" might function similarly; project the beam from the crossguard to a reflector or collector at the tip; no interruption, you have only moderate loss of power. If the beam gets interrupted (i.e. someone's face gets stuck in there) and you lose power, but that's why you have an e-clip in the handle.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
taalismn wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:my opinion is that the concept of "laser sword" is in itself stupid. especially if you know even a little bit about the physics of light.

As a replacement are the energy melee weapons in the HU:Aliens Unlimited Book. They come with rifts conversion notes. So including them in a rifts game is easy.


That's reminding me of a TimeLoop fanfic thread on SpaceBattles where Luke Skywalker runs into Tony Stark, who has made his own light saber/contained plasma blade, and it's pointed out that more than a few cultures across the multiverse have created them...the Gundamverse simply makes them bigger, and Arthur Dent uses a smaller one to simultaneously slice and toast bread...


Energy/plasma blades are fine. they are theoretically possible. With only the engineering to be worked out.
(Gundam's Beam Sabers are a type of plasma/particle sword. Thankyou very much.)

Lasers as 'blades' (yes a very specific idea)...there is no 'engineering to be worked out'. Anything that is a laser is a laser beam. :roll: Which is why I find the ""Laser swords"" and ""laser knives"" stupid.

I think for laser "blade" to work it would have to take one of 4 forms:
1. the laser creates the plasma blade (other plasma blades use other methods)
2. something along the lines of what Mark Hall suggested from Shadowrun's monofilament swords, though it wouldn't explain certain types of attacks (stab/thrust vs slash/cut)
3. laser beam photons ends up suspended (https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sc ... its-tracks or http://news.mit.edu/2018/physicists-cre ... light-0215), which is one way to interpret the WB14 laser knife "field"
4. it is a continuous state beam with a very limited range (outside that range it exists, but has no combat potential)
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

1...just a type of plasma blade where a laser heats the gas into plasma.
2... just a 'continues on' laser rod with a mirror on the end. (and from what I've read this 'prossess' describes lightsabers working on the macro-idea scale. But with LSs they use words like 'energy' rather then 'light' or 'laser'. And use force field instead of mirror.)
3...that is something I've not seen before....thou if it could work on a macro-scale it would mostly work on shadow beings. (read a sci-fi short story (about a decade ago) about shadow beings having taken over the earth, with something like this...solified light...within the concepts of the story.)
4...just a laser rod with a 'continues on' setting.

Any which way you phrase it up (except for maybe #3) it is still just a laser beam.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by guardiandashi »

ok if we are talking about "laser swords" from a certain movie series...
in the lore they aren't actually laser weapons, they are more of a particle / energy weapon, that includes a charge disk at the end of the hilt/handle that both anchors the blade, and gives it someplace to recover the energy of the blade. basically it sends a particle/plasma stream out that goes to the designed blade length, then the particles come back to the handle, and are sent back out, this works because as long as its not actively trying to cut something its better than 99% efficient. the power cell is mostly used to energize (initialize) the blade, and maintain/restore energy levels from bleedoff as it cuts stuff. and actually explains why they can parry other blades they are actually physical at some level even though they have virtually no mass in the blade. which is part of the reason they are so hard to use... effectively VERY sharp, but little to no kinesthetic feedback.

if you were trying to make an actual Laser sword, I can think offhand of 2 ways to do it. Option 1 would be an actual blade with a laser "edge" essentially a laser emitter on the hilt, and an aligned receiver / beam redirector that sends the beam back down the blade from the emitter.
option 2 would be more like the one described in the books, where you have multiple emitters in the hilt, that project in a pattern, but each "beam" does not actually have enough energy to actually do damage, its only when multiple beams cross/focus on the same point that they reach damaging energy levels.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1...just a type of plasma blade where a laser heats the gas into plasma.
2... just a 'continues on' laser rod with a mirror on the end. (and from what I've read this 'prossess' describes lightsabers working on the macro-idea scale. But with LSs they use words like 'energy' rather then 'light' or 'laser'. And use force field instead of mirror.)
3...that is something I've not seen before....thou if it could work on a macro-scale it would mostly work on shadow beings. (read a sci-fi short story (about a decade ago) about shadow beings having taken over the earth, with something like this...solified light...within the concepts of the story.)
4...just a laser rod with a 'continues on' setting.

Any which way you phrase it up (except for maybe #3) it is still just a laser beam.
Calling it a sword or knife is just "advertising". And if someone believes ads as wholly truthful I have this bridge I'd like to sell you.

Re: Star Wars
GL considers Lightsabers "laser sword" (how applicable that is now that Disney is in control I don't know), but it's even in the dialogue in Ep1 that the lightsaber is a laser sword

I suppose the easiest explanation for a "laser blade" in Rifts is that the blade is a laser generated 3-d hologram using combat grade lasers. We know lasers exists with a short effective range (laser torch, laser scalpel). We know holographics are a thing (SB1o had the "laptop" with a holographic screen). A "laser field" (IIRC WB14 on the laser knife) would then just be a marketing thing (it sounds better than holographic blade, it won't have the potential customer thinking of holographic projection which could mislead them into passing) and it would explain why they can't parry (holograms wouldn't be able to parry/stop a physical object).
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

ShadowLogan wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:1...just a type of plasma blade where a laser heats the gas into plasma.
2... just a 'continues on' laser rod with a mirror on the end. (and from what I've read this 'prossess' describes lightsabers working on the macro-idea scale. But with LSs they use words like 'energy' rather then 'light' or 'laser'. And use force field instead of mirror.)
3...that is something I've not seen before....thou if it could work on a macro-scale it would mostly work on shadow beings. (read a sci-fi short story (about a decade ago) about shadow beings having taken over the earth, with something like this...solified light...within the concepts of the story.)
4...just a laser rod with a 'continues on' setting.

Any which way you phrase it up (except for maybe #3) it is still just a laser beam.
Calling it a sword or knife is just "advertising". And if someone believes ads as wholly truthful I have this bridge I'd like to sell you.

Re: Star Wars
GL considers Lightsabers "laser sword" (how applicable that is now that Disney is in control I don't know), but it's even in the dialogue in Ep1 that the lightsaber is a laser sword


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Axelmania
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Axelmania »

I thought canonically lightsabres were actually clouds of plasma contained by magnetic fields. If some chars call it laser maybe they just don't understand the mechanics or are paraphrasing them for simplicity.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Axelmania wrote:I thought canonically lightsabres were actually clouds of plasma contained by magnetic fields. If some chars call it laser maybe they just don't understand the mechanics or are paraphrasing them for simplicity.


Maybe now, but their creator, (George Lucas) called them laser swords. That carries some weight with me. Not that the science of how they work is really all that important, as Star Wars is primarily fantasy, not hard sci-fi.
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Axelmania »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Maybe now, but their creator, (George Lucas) called them laser swords. That carries some weight with me.

Good point, just found script of New Hope:
With astounding agility old Ben's laser sword sparks to life
and in a flash an arm lies on the floor. The rodent is cut
in two and the giant multiple-eyed creature lies doubled,
cut from chin to groin. Ben carefully and precisely turns
off his laser sword and replaces it on his utility belt.

Makes me wonder when it was they added that 'plasma' stuff, maybe in the extended universe from books?
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Re: Laser sword?

Unread post by Orin J. »

Axelmania wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Maybe now, but their creator, (George Lucas) called them laser swords. That carries some weight with me.

Good point, just found script of New Hope:
With astounding agility old Ben's laser sword sparks to life
and in a flash an arm lies on the floor. The rodent is cut
in two and the giant multiple-eyed creature lies doubled,
cut from chin to groin. Ben carefully and precisely turns
off his laser sword and replaces it on his utility belt.

Makes me wonder when it was they added that 'plasma' stuff, maybe in the extended universe from books?


they added it when they couldn't copyright "Laser Sword". :lol:
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