Any desire for a multi-versal mass combat system?

[slade the sniper]

If so, what would you want it to do (incorporate)?

How simple/abstract would you want it to be?

Would you want it to be built on the same sort of system that the normal cult/mercenary/group building that is "common" in other Palladium games?

If you would not want a mass combat system, why not?

Thanks

-STS

P.S. I am already aware of the combat rules in Rifter #23.

[Captain_Nibbz]

I'm fine with simple and abstract, as long as it can still fairly accurately represent the abilities of the group of mercs it represents. I love me some mass combat, but most systems are kind of unwieldy for that, so I just kind of make up my own for the situation

[Warshield73]

I'm fine with simple and abstract, as long as it can still fairly accurately represent the abilities of the group of mercs it represents. I love me some mass combat, but most systems are kind of unwieldy for that, so I just kind of make up my own for the situation

I would love to see someone create a good one but I agree with Cap that most of what I have seen are unwieldy, poorly represent the armies involved, or in many cases both.

I use a lot of mass combat in my games already but I just do it by grouping weaker enemies, or allies, into groups of 3 to 10 for purposes of initiative and sometimes even movement. If I'm prepared with mass combat sheets before the game I can move a battle involving 25 or so weaker enemies (zombies, CS troops, Invid, Zentraedi, TGE soldiers) as fast as a battle with 4 or 5 tougher, more individualized opponents.

[torjones]

Wait, what was wrong with Modern Army Combat from Rifter #23? Rifter #22 had the Medieval Army Combat Rules. Both work reasonably well once you get used to how they work. They aren't perfect, but nothing ever is.

[Warshield73]

Wait, what was wrong with Modern Army Combat from Rifter #23? Rifter #22 had the Medieval Army Combat Rules. Both work reasonably well once you get used to how they work. They aren't perfect, but nothing ever is.

I had forgotten about these and I barrowed a lot of rules from them so thanks for the reminder.

[slade the sniper]

Wait, what was wrong with Modern Army Combat from Rifter #23? Rifter #22 had the Medieval Army Combat Rules. Both work reasonably well once you get used to how they work. They aren't perfect, but nothing ever is.

Nothing is wrong with them, hence why I mentioned them in my first post.

I kinda think that they are a bit overly complicated...especially for a lot of "off camera" battles. It is like playing a tactical wargame, but with none of the good stuff such as maps and zones of control.

-STS

[Hotrod]

I'd like to see multiple mass-combat systems: a tactical battle system (like Warhammer 40k), a naval/space battle system (X-Wing Tabletop/Armada/Battlefleet Gothic), and a strategic turn-based system (like RISK).

[slade the sniper]

I'd like to see multiple mass-combat systems: a tactical battle system (like Warhammer 40k), a naval/space battle system (X-Wing Tabletop/Armada/Battlefleet Gothic), and a strategic turn-based system (like RISK).

I think was supposed to be a Rifts TT wargame, but there were issues and the forum is locked now. Just having a bare bones skeleton system would be good enough to extrapolate a lot of megaversal stuff.

I think the biggest issue is the range. A lot of older TT games had similar issues, but with 100m+ hexes it shouldn't be that difficult. Plus, a lot of the "special powers" of PC's really don't seem to be that game breaking on a platoon+ level game, and certainly not in a strategic sense. When it comes down to it, a lot of super-powers (at least at the scale of HU) really just make PC's the equivalent of high end attack helicopters, fighters and tanks. Considering that modern tech is definitely on par with a lot of those powers in a damage dealing/range/durability sense, superheroes/PCs are more of a high powered tactical option.

Ok, now I am just rambling...

-STS

[ShonicBurn]

Strangely enough my rpg group ripped the mass combat system right out of the Song of ice and fire rpg. It requires your group to form a “house” or as we call it a unit and it makes like type forces attack on the same initiative against large spreads. It’s fun for doing war with the larger nations.versus larger nations maneuvers and formations are also an important part of the system. The best part of the ice and fire system though it gave intelligence only characters powers for commanding their army and it allowed power players to contribute to individual fronts each round.

[slade the sniper]

Ok, question...what scale would be most advantageous for a Rifts/megaversal mass combat system? I am thinking somewhere around 200m to 300m per hex/inch in order to keep the ranges somewhat viable and generally keep a PC group together (if they are on the board at all). I was thinking 100m per hex as a minimum. Anyway, opinions?

-STS

[Captain_Nibbz]

Ok, question...what scale would be most advantageous for a Rifts/megaversal mass combat system? I am thinking somewhere around 200m to 300m per hex/inch in order to keep the ranges somewhat viable and generally keep a PC group together (if they are on the board at all). I was thinking 100m per hex as a minimum. Anyway, opinions?

-STS

I've never written a mass combat system personally, but would there be a way to make it scalable without much effort to allow more flexibility depending on the size of the combat taking place? If this is WAY too much effort, I would go for a slightly more granular 100m personally.

[slade the sniper]

I have already made the game numerically scalable all the way up to roughly Corps level. I am working on making the combat ranges scalable with little maps that will be 1m squares, 10m squares, 100m squares, 1 km squares, etc. all the way up to 100,000 km squares for "space combat." The hard part is actually working out the "time scale." 15 second time scale makes it Megaversal, but it is actually a LONG time when you are keeping track of multiple combatants. I actually want to cut it down to 3 seconds so that everyone can do 1 thing at a time. Move Fast or Shoot Well, or Move slowly and Shoot poorly. Once you shift scale it gets really difficult, however.

I can't quite figure out how to "stack units" (add A squad to B company)...at a company level, an extra squad isn't really all that helpful (a +~8% manpower and combat power at best) and unless you go full on tactical doesn't mean much.

I don't know, trying to "mix" a fully tactical game along with an operational game is kinda painful right now.

-STS