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 Post subject: Northern Gun Tread-Feet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:49 pm
  

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Noticed that the Northern Gun Bruiser, Viking, and Volcano all have small tread units concealed in the soles of their feet. Now, while the quick-and-be-done-with-it answer for these devices would/might be ‘shock absorbers’, I still have to wonder; was this an alternate form of propulsion(perhaps for moving the large robots around parking lots and decks without heavy footfalls clomping and doing damage) that Mark Dudley incorporated into the design, but the description was cut to make page count?

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
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To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:57 pm
  

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I think it's basically an easy to replace grip for their feet. Over time the feet are going to have a lot of wear and tear having easy to replace treads that you can swap on would be better than just damaging the actual foot itself which would be harder and more expensive to fix in the field.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:19 pm
  

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kaid wrote:
I think it's basically an easy to replace grip for their feet. Over time the feet are going to have a lot of wear and tear having easy to replace treads that you can swap on would be better than just damaging the actual foot itself which would be harder and more expensive to fix in the field.



Possible, but that could be accomplished just as easily with a simple overshoe-style mat that the 'bot could step out of, then step on, lock some pins in place, and be on their way. Replacing old tread with the system you suggest would eta tad difficult since the older tread would be rolled up into the foot where it would be harder to access, unless, like a tank track, you broke the loop and rolled out the tread behind the foot as the 'bot stepped forward during a maintenance session.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:16 am
  

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Considering how much NG cares about aesthetics…
it could be a purely aesthetic design that is there to appeal to a certain kind of mecha buyer. Sort of like how you find all sorts of doodads and things on trucks or cars that don't really contribute to "get from here to there" but are selling points 'because reasons'

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Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:40 pm
  

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I could swear that I read in one of the descriptions that it was to aid traction while climbing over obstacles or moving through difficult terrain but I can't find were it is.

Probably just rule of cool.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:27 pm
  

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Anyone expecting Palladium robot design to make real world sense... :clown:


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:25 pm
  

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pad300 wrote:
Anyone expecting Palladium robot design to make real world sense... :clown:

Yes because robot vehicles in other games make perfect sense :lol:
The whole concept of robot combat vehicles is kind of silly.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:22 pm
  

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taalismn wrote:
Noticed that the Northern Gun Bruiser, Viking, and Volcano all have small tread units concealed in the soles of their feet. Now, while the quick-and-be-done-with-it answer for these devices would/might be ‘shock absorbers’, I still have to wonder; was this an alternate form of propulsion(perhaps for moving the large robots around parking lots and decks without heavy footfalls clomping and doing damage) that Mark Dudley incorporated into the design, but the description was cut to make page count?


This reminds me of Heavy Gear. Kind of makes me wonder if that wouldn't work for best for high speed ground travel. I would have to be better on the hardware then running.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:40 pm
  

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rem1093 wrote:
[

This reminds me of Heavy Gear. Kind of makes me wonder if that wouldn't work for best for high speed ground travel. I would have to be better on the hardware then running.


Yeah, and the Macross II destoids all had rollers in their feet...I don't remember, if the RPG made mention of that either.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:55 pm
  

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taalismn wrote:
rem1093 wrote:
[

This reminds me of Heavy Gear. Kind of makes me wonder if that wouldn't work for best for high speed ground travel. I would have to be better on the hardware then running.


Yeah, and the Macross II destoids all had rollers in their feet...I don't remember, if the RPG made mention of that either.

I don't think they do. But the Monster does have the Hover system.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:05 pm
  

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rem1093 wrote:
[
Yeah, and the Macross II destoids all had rollers in their feet...I don't remember, if the RPG made mention of that either.

I don't think they do. But the Monster does have the Hover system.[/quote]

Which likely wasn't the easiest way to maneuver the thing in tight spaces....the air-bleed pressure would be sending deck personnel flying.

_________________
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:29 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Warshield73 wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Anyone expecting Palladium robot design to make real world sense... :clown:

Yes because robot vehicles in other games make perfect sense :lol:
The whole concept of robot combat vehicles is kind of silly.

There are some fairly good justifications for robot combat vehicles that can be used to explain them... none of which apply to Palladium (or most games)
At least there is a trend now for some of the RCVs to be more plausible (low slung scorpions and other arachna-walkers) are a bit more reasonable as a mobile heavy weapons platform.

But to be brutally honest... in Palladium the Power Armor (backed up by LRM fire support) is the weapon of decision. It sits at the sweet spot of durability, size, cost, firepower and affordability (aka you can afford to lose it).

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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:11 am
  

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eliakon wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Anyone expecting Palladium robot design to make real world sense... :clown:

Yes because robot vehicles in other games make perfect sense :lol:
The whole concept of robot combat vehicles is kind of silly.

There are some fairly good justifications for robot combat vehicles that can be used to explain them... none of which apply to Palladium (or most games)
At least there is a trend now for some of the RCVs to be more plausible (low slung scorpions and other arachna-walkers) are a bit more reasonable as a mobile heavy weapons platform.

But to be brutally honest... in Palladium the Power Armor (backed up by LRM fire support) is the weapon of decision. It sits at the sweet spot of durability, size, cost, firepower and affordability (aka you can afford to lose it).

I think you could make a solid case for a GB, Ultimax, or Jager. But anything much about 10 or so feet I think is unlikely. Now a scorpion style or spider walker or something like the AT-TE from the SW Clone Wars could work to, especially as an IFV or artillery unit.

As for costs, an Army like the CS with leaders like the Proseks will always have there version of the F-35 or the B-2. Something that is way too expensive to risk by actually using it but way to impressive to not have in your parade.

My problem with Rifts vehicles has always been too many weapons. If you are talking about a single pilot vehicles why have 5 weapons systems. I know this comes out of them having done Robotech, those mechs have and at least there are very few RCVs as ridiculous as the first gen destroids especially in terms of size.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:15 am
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Warshield73 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Anyone expecting Palladium robot design to make real world sense... :clown:

Yes because robot vehicles in other games make perfect sense :lol:
The whole concept of robot combat vehicles is kind of silly.

There are some fairly good justifications for robot combat vehicles that can be used to explain them... none of which apply to Palladium (or most games)
At least there is a trend now for some of the RCVs to be more plausible (low slung scorpions and other arachna-walkers) are a bit more reasonable as a mobile heavy weapons platform.

But to be brutally honest... in Palladium the Power Armor (backed up by LRM fire support) is the weapon of decision. It sits at the sweet spot of durability, size, cost, firepower and affordability (aka you can afford to lose it).

I think you could make a solid case for a GB, Ultimax, or Jager. But anything much about 10 or so feet I think is unlikely. Now a scorpion style or spider walker or something like the AT-TE from the SW Clone Wars could work to, especially as an IFV or artillery unit.

I would agree with those three. The Gunbot and Scorpion Battler from NG are also good.

Warshield73 wrote:
As for costs, an Army like the CS with leaders like the Proseks will always have there version of the F-35 or the B-2. Something that is way too expensive to risk by actually using it but way to impressive to not have in your parade.

Oh yes certainly...
but for general use they spend way to much on mecha for way to little result.

Warshield73 wrote:
My problem with Rifts vehicles has always been too many weapons. If you are talking about a single pilot vehicles why have 5 weapons systems. I know this comes out of them having done Robotech, those mechs have and at least there are very few RCVs as ridiculous as the first gen destroids especially in terms of size.

A vehicle should have a main gun, a secondary gun a point defense system and then 1 or 2 missile systems in my opinion.

You want a decent secondary weapon incase your main gun isn't effective (so a rail gun to compliment an energy gun for example, or an energy gun to turn to if your rail gun runs out of ammo)

You want a point defense system because that is how missiles work in universe and its stupid not to protect yourself (I would honestly expect to see more use of the MiO autodefense system or the SA disco-ball or the like)

And you want missiles because EVERYTHING military should be carrying missiles. They are cheap, and powerful and the way you do your damage in military terms.
a mini-missile pack for close in fighting to take out infantry/power armor
and SRMs or MRMs for taking out enemy armor/mecha/hard points.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:09 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
My problem with Rifts vehicles has always been too many weapons. If you are talking about a single pilot vehicles why have 5 weapons systems. I know this comes out of them having done Robotech, those mechs have and at least there are very few RCVs as ridiculous as the first gen destroids especially in terms of size.

A vehicle should have a main gun, a secondary gun a point defense system and then 1 or 2 missile systems in my opinion.

You want a decent secondary weapon incase your main gun isn't effective (so a rail gun to compliment an energy gun for example, or an energy gun to turn to if your rail gun runs out of ammo)

You want a point defense system because that is how missiles work in universe and its stupid not to protect yourself (I would honestly expect to see more use of the MiO autodefense system or the SA disco-ball or the like)

And you want missiles because EVERYTHING military should be carrying missiles. They are cheap, and powerful and the way you do your damage in military terms.
a mini-missile pack for close in fighting to take out infantry/power armor
and SRMs or MRMs for taking out enemy armor/mecha/hard points.

Depending on the size of vehicle I agree. This is perfect for an Ultimax or something but smaller man sized PA's can get by with one built-in weapon and then some sort of rifle. Some sort of variability in the missile system is good too. My favorite vehicle in Rifts for years was the Titan Flying PA. Use a Wilks 457 or some kind of handheld grenade launcher and then you have wing mounted mini-missiles for anti-armor or SRMs for air to air. The laser turrets were OK for point defense too.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:48 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
My favorite vehicle in Rifts for years was the Titan Flying PA. Use a Wilks 457 or some kind of handheld grenade launcher and then you have wing mounted mini-missiles for anti-armor or SRMs for air to air. The laser turrets were OK for point defense too.



Agreed on the Flying Titan; it's undersung.
If you could get an automated sub-AI gunner system for the lasers as anti-missile point defense, but them you'd have to be updating the threat ID profile catalogue in the machine's memory for every time you went near a rift and encountered something new, strange, and threatening.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:05 pm
  

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taalismn wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
My favorite vehicle in Rifts for years was the Titan Flying PA. Use a Wilks 457 or some kind of handheld grenade launcher and then you have wing mounted mini-missiles for anti-armor or SRMs for air to air. The laser turrets were OK for point defense too.



Agreed on the Flying Titan; it's undersung.
If you could get an automated sub-AI gunner system for the lasers as anti-missile point defense, but them you'd have to be updating the threat ID profile catalogue in the machine's memory for every time you went near a rift and encountered something new, strange, and threatening.


Or you do the "lazy bastard way", with a "friendly ID profile catalogue". Whatever is not a friendly, is automatically a threat. :twisted:


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:41 pm
  

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taalismn wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
My favorite vehicle in Rifts for years was the Titan Flying PA. Use a Wilks 457 or some kind of handheld grenade launcher and then you have wing mounted mini-missiles for anti-armor or SRMs for air to air. The laser turrets were OK for point defense too.



Agreed on the Flying Titan; it's undersung.
If you could get an automated sub-AI gunner system for the lasers as anti-missile point defense, but them you'd have to be updating the threat ID profile catalogue in the machine's memory for every time you went near a rift and encountered something new, strange, and threatening.

After SB1 came out I let my players upgrade vehicles with full AIs to add attacks and basically be an auto-pilot. It became such a massive number of attacks that I ended up retconning it away.

What I eventually allowed was a system that had 4 attacks and was just smart enough to shoot at two things in a priority order:
1- Missiles flying at the vehicle
2- an vehicle that locks on to the vehicle with weapons systems
3- What ever the pilot locked onto with his weapons system

This kept it simple and kept the AI's from being to expensive or shooting at friendlies.

SolCannibal wrote:
Or you do the "lazy bastard way", with a "friendly ID profile catalogue". Whatever is not a friendly, is automatically a threat. :twisted:

Yeah, if I was your GM I would have had it shooting at birds or friendly missiles flying nearby on there way to a target or random people running for cover. In fact, I did this to a few people in PW when they set up auto-defense weapons.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:48 am
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
My favorite vehicle in Rifts for years was the Titan Flying PA. Use a Wilks 457 or some kind of handheld grenade launcher and then you have wing mounted mini-missiles for anti-armor or SRMs for air to air. The laser turrets were OK for point defense too.



Agreed on the Flying Titan; it's undersung.
If you could get an automated sub-AI gunner system for the lasers as anti-missile point defense, but them you'd have to be updating the threat ID profile catalogue in the machine's memory for every time you went near a rift and encountered something new, strange, and threatening.

After SB1 came out I let my players upgrade vehicles with full AIs to add attacks and basically be an auto-pilot. It became such a massive number of attacks that I ended up retconning it away.

What I eventually allowed was a system that had 4 attacks and was just smart enough to shoot at two things in a priority order:
1- Missiles flying at the vehicle
2- an vehicle that locks on to the vehicle with weapons systems
3- What ever the pilot locked onto with his weapons system

This kept it simple and kept the AI's from being to expensive or shooting at friendlies.

SolCannibal wrote:
Or you do the "lazy bastard way", with a "friendly ID profile catalogue". Whatever is not a friendly, is automatically a threat. :twisted:

Yeah, if I was your GM I would have had it shooting at birds or friendly missiles flying nearby on there way to a target or random people running for cover. In fact, I did this to a few people in PW when they set up auto-defense weapons.


"Unarmed human being (or insert D-bee type here), friendly type, unless stated otherwise in loco by user." - there are degrees of intelligence and degrees of selection. Planning your criteria helps making your program slim and require less processing power. :wink:


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:24 am
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
[
Yeah, if I was your GM I would have had it shooting at birds or friendly missiles flying nearby on there way to a target or random people running for cover. In fact, I did this to a few people in PW when they set up auto-defense weapons.



Reminds me of the scene from 'Raising Arizona' where the Snoats Brothers hold up a place with the order 'Freeze and drop to the floor!"

Hayseed: Well, which is it young fella? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, iffen I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And iffen I drop, I'm a gonna be in motion.

_________________
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:44 am
  

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Funny thing is that i must admit i haven't really used the NG books in any of my games so far.
That is an awful oversight in serious need of correction indeed.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:58 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
Funny thing is that i must admit i haven't really used the NG books in any of my games so far.
That is an awful oversight in serious need of correction indeed.

I realized the same thing with a thread a few months back. The problem is that there are so many books and so many vehicles anymore that just choosing which to use is insane.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:15 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Funny thing is that i must admit i haven't really used the NG books in any of my games so far.
That is an awful oversight in serious need of correction indeed.

I realized the same thing with a thread a few months back. The problem is that there are so many books and so many vehicles anymore that just choosing which to use is insane.


"style first" always works for me. I figure out what would fit the style my character likes, and it usually cuts down on a LOT of designs. Of course, that doesn't help in finding a role for the NG books, i tend to think they're all hideous!

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:58 pm
  

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Orin J. wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Funny thing is that i must admit i haven't really used the NG books in any of my games so far.
That is an awful oversight in serious need of correction indeed.

I realized the same thing with a thread a few months back. The problem is that there are so many books and so many vehicles anymore that just choosing which to use is insane.


"style first" always works for me. I figure out what would fit the style my character likes, and it usually cuts down on a LOT of designs. Of course, that doesn't help in finding a role for the NG books, i tend to think they're all hideous!


As mom says "Ugly can be its own style, that's what Monster Trucks and Danny Trejo are in the world for." :lol:


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:20 pm
  

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Orin J. wrote:
Warshield73 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Funny thing is that i must admit i haven't really used the NG books in any of my games so far.
That is an awful oversight in serious need of correction indeed.

I realized the same thing with a thread a few months back. The problem is that there are so many books and so many vehicles anymore that just choosing which to use is insane.


"style first" always works for me. I figure out what would fit the style my character likes, and it usually cuts down on a LOT of designs. Of course, that doesn't help in finding a role for the NG books, i tend to think they're all hideous!

I agree on style, I am trying to update some of my convention characters to allow a few different options for vehicles so the players can choose a style for themselves.

I have to disagree on the NG books. Lots of great designs in there with cool artwork that plays really like.

SolCannibal wrote:
As mom says "Ugly can be its own style, that's what Monster Trucks and Danny Trejo are in the world for." :lol:

Definitely.

_________________
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider - WB 32: Lemuria
Ultimate Insider - WB 33: Northern Gun 1
Ultimate Insider - WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer - Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider - Rifts Bestiary: Volume 1


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