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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:24 pm
  

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What is life like for normal people, nobles, artisans, et cetera living under the protection of the various factions in your version of Rifts England? What do their nations ask of them? Do they live in a society with strict castes or classes? Are they expected to gather and fight for those who rule them? Since you mentioned conquest, how do the common folk of one nation respond to being conquered?

This talk about the Lady of the Lake, Merlin, and Arthur is fine and all if you're heavily focusing your campaign on Camelot. Even so, though, unless your Camelot is far and away larger and more powerful than it is in canon, you seem to be falling into the same trap as Kevin Siembieda and putting disproportionate attention on what amounts to a few minor players in one small city-state. Just as the book should have put more focus on Fomorian demons, the Eternal city, the Faerie Kingdoms, Tara, London of Splynn, and plenty of other spots (almost every millennium tree community should be considered a near peer to canon Camelot), I think you should consider defining what's going on with the various powers in your version of Rifts England. Such dynamics are far more interesting to me than the identity and history of some strange lady lying in a pond handing out swords (which is no basis for a form of government!).

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:16 am
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
dreicunan wrote:
Dead Reign has conversion notes for using the Dead Reign Zombies in Rifts on page 55. Make them MDC, almost no energy weapons damage them. Rail guns and other projectile based weapons only damage on a headshot. Vibroblades do 1/3 damage; otherwise better bring a magic weapon. Ordinary fire inflicts MD. MD fire (Plasma weapons included) and magic fire do double damage. On the plus side, no natural AR to deal with!


Woah, that sounds a bit hardcore to say the least. Are Dead Reign that hardcore to destroy in their own setting? As you said yourself Rifts Zombies can be already pretty formidable on their own as an army, that other stuff you described puts them closer to vampires in the degree of headache.

They are honestly worse in their own setting due to natural AR 14 and only being able to hit the head or neck on a NATURAL roll of 17-20. Yep, in Dead Reign skill with a weapon has no bearing on making a headshot. Your military trained sharpshooter has no better chance than the drunk guy who has never held a gun before. Also, in their own setting the characters just don't have access to the same kinds of powers or weapons, to say nothing of magic or psi.

A burster, for example, can really mess them up: fiery aura is letting him do 6d6 sdc converted to MD to the zombies for 2 minutes per level of experience for only 4 ISP (interesting case of interpretation for the 1d6 MD attack that says "or 1d6x100 SDC"). Bursters can shoot 6d6 sdc blasts that become 6d6 MD against them for only 2 ISP per blast with 200 ft plus 20 ft per level range, or use 10 ISP to create a 20ft +5 ft per level inferno that burns for up to 10 minutes while the burster maintains concentration and does 2d4x10 sdc converted to MD per melee round to anything inside it or whenever anything tries to run through it.

Also note that Rifts characters clad in environmental body armor or power armor can use sdc fire up close against Dead Reign Zombies with much more impunity than characters in Dead Reign can. That Naruni modular armor from DB 7 that can add the weapons package with a plasma flamethrower would be a godsend against them (5d6 md doubled to 10d6 against them, and it does damage to a 20ft area, 200 ft range, 15 shots from a standard e-clip; that armor can be amazingly cost effective!).

On a separate note, you clearly need to detail the anarcho-syndicalist commune which is resisting the repression caused by the violence inherent in Camelot's system.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:00 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
I haven't quite decided on what the Lady is, though I'm leaning toward a powerful nature spirit. In the Wikipedia article I was reading she was the daughter of a god (which one escapes me), so she's at least as powerful as a Demigod. Hotrod mentioned she might be a dragon, which I thought was a cool idea as well. In my semi rewrite she's kind of on the periphery currently, so I don't have to deal with it right now, fortunately.


Nature spirit/deity come easily but making her a dragon could make for a good twist with some explanation. Or maybe there's more than one, a "fake" and a "true" Lady of the Lake, in the vein of how you have "real" gods, demigods & heroes and a number of impostors in Pantheons of the Megaverse.

Anyway, Lady of Lake as a sort of guide/muse/quest-giver figure for wandering knights in general is kind of a must for me.


One of the problems I'm having with the Lady is that Merlin doesn't want her found. That wouldn't stop her from finding knights to do her business of course, which would, if discovered, cause more problems for Merlin, which would be pretty cool.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
I don't know what I'm doing with Fairievale anymore since I moved New Camelot to the other side of Bath. There are forests to the south of Salisbury that I'm using which could serve the same purpose, so your suggestion of using a Faerie Queen (or King) wouldn't be too off base.


Well, multiple locations doesn't have to be a problem, you know. :wink:


This is true. BTW, I loved that movie as a kid and still think it's pretty awesome.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
Towards the end of Old Camelot's reign, for reasons currently known only to those involved, the Lady of the Lake imprisoned Merlin somewhere where he couldn't escape. Only the eruption of the Rifts allowed him to escape. He's now fearful of being entrapped again, so he decided to reform a version of Camelot, claiming that Winchester Castle was sort of a Promised Land where a new Kingdom could be established for the betterment of all beings.


What if the reasons are currently unknown even to those involved? Due to the centuries passed, traumas of imprisonment &/or Time of the Rifts and unknown supernatural shenanigans no one can say for sure anymore, letting you keep it vague and open until some weird idea comes to mind.

Maybe something along the lines of William Bell messing with Walter Bishop's head in Fringe or worse.

"Why did you seal me in that place??"

"Because you begged me to, you said i needed to, for the good of the fallen world!!"

"What?!?!"

Anyway, the "now fearful of being entrapped again" part got an image on my mind - of how Merlin is always found in particular spaces: stone circles, sacred grooves, open courtyards, the top of mountains. Not because they are places of power or good locales to make himself noticeable, though those do play a role but because open spaces make him feel safer, he's somewhat claustrophobic and small rooms can cause him flashbacks of his entrapment for more than a millenium. :twisted:


This is pretty cool. I'd imagine the Lady would remember but Merlin probably doesn't know why she imprisoned him and probably still doesn't know. Making him claustrophobic is a pretty neat idea and would give characters a potential edge if they come to blows with him.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
In reality, Camelot is a buffer to any one or thing that could be a danger to him. He doesn't want to be the ruler; that's too dangerous, but the power behind the throne is where he shines. So he employed magic and psionics plus a good deal of personal charisma and powerful lessons learned and witnessed from Old Camelot to get several small villages and towns to follow him.


Still in the "not being entrapped again" train of thought, it got me thinking that Merlin's objective is not so much dominating or manipulating anything - though as a demigod that certainly entertains him - but to neutralize any major supernatural forces that might have the power to threaten him. That those beings might be an even greater danger to the fragile mortals he's guiding only makes it more of a win-win situation.


That makes sense. It also potentially gives him a reason to set his sights beyond England, particularly towards the Gargoyle Kingdoms, making him an ally of the NGR, which fits into canon. Cool!

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
What they didn't know was that Kefrem, Lord of the Necropolis, was sending out his undead legions to scout locations that could be a danger to his small theocracy in London. These two groups clashed with each other however briefly (Merlin and company wiped them out), leading both to worry about the security of their current and future nations. So far Merlin has everything he needs except for a symbol of heritage by divine right. Excalibur is gone and Merlin can't find it, which worries him greatly, because due to his half-demonic nature such a sword could be a serious danger to him personally.


Kefrem? That makes me think of an egyptian pharaoh's mummy awakening in the British Museum and making it his palace from which to start the conquest of the city. Does that fit on your idea? :lol:
Incidentally, i would make Kefrem & Merlin's past confrontation something more of an impasse, just to reinforce both how they are on somewhat even ground in power & influence (what's far from a good thing) and their mutual badassness.

Also, while it has roots in the source, i'm not quite sure about playing the "half-demonic heritage" card - at least in relation to vulnerabilities, as bringing them could mean making him also vulnerable to silver or iron, but more importantly, Millenium Tree wood, that tends to be quite the smacker of all things unholy (that said, Merlin getting unexpected trouble out of whoever his demonic mom or dad is could be interesting).

Ok, speaking of "Helldad/mom is coming for a visit" gave me an idea. Ever watched Teen Titans? What if Merlin is like Raven, not "just" a half-demonic child turned magician, but a gate in the making, destined to become a great permanent passage to whatever Hell-Realm its diabolic parent rules and that is the awful, lost motive for his imprisonment?

And in a twist of Arthurian themes, the Stone [a magical crystal menhir] was his prison and the Sword [Excalibur] the lock and key? At least until someone pried the Sword from the Stone during the Time of Rifts/Chaos Earth era, Merlin was freed and this link is why he's vulnerable to Excalibur still?


That's exactly what Kefrem is, as described in the Rifter I lifted the idea from (issue 27 if I remember correctly). He can raise a frighteningly large amount of undead without casting a spell (I think it's 7D6 per round at a cost of 30 PPE per undead). He's also personally powerful, with 2000 MDC and the spell casting ability of a 7th level Necromancer. And yes, I should make their initial encounter more evenly matched. Or, if not, have New Camelot march on toward London only to be repulsed by the sheer number of undead and coexisting living armies using technology available and scavenged from Kefrem's initial push to conquer London back in the Chaos Earth time frame.

I have watched the Teen Titans, but kind of missed most of that season. I have graphic novels of the original comics though, so I could look through those again. I was kind of playing up the half-demonic heritage angle to justify the Lady of the Lake not out and out killing Merlin back during the time of Old Camelot. She's afraid of his father, so won't kill him, just to be on the safe side.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
What he doesn't know is that when the Arthur died, both he and Excalibur were interned in the Island of Avalon. When Earth's magic started waning, the Seven Sisters who ruled and protected Avalon magically shunted the island into its own pocket dimension. After the coming of the Rifts, the Sisters aren't sure they want to return. It's tempting; millennia spent in isolation, with the odd appearance of one dimensional traveler or another who visited through random dimensional portals or those who simply discovered them through luck has made them doubt the safety of their pocket domain and may lead them to pop back into existence, such as it were. So far the best they've done is sending scouts from the immortal nuns who are caretakers of Avalon to get the lay of the land and find out how safe returning would be. In the end it might not matter. Dimensions so close to Rifts Earth are significantly less safe than they were, and simple survival may egg them into action before they're ready.


Just to complicate things a bit more, what if Arthur is not dead, but indeed sleeping/healing in Avalon? Arthur actually being able to return - and Merlin having no idea whatsoever the legend has some kernel of truth and being as surprised/unbelieving as everybody else could be fun. Incidentally, if the Seven sisters or the Lady of the Lake have anything like the Taursis' healing/ressurection powers, i bet they would be even more strongly opposed to an undead theocracy than Merlin.

Or for a funky twist, what if Avalon and the Seven Sisters have no healing/ressurection powers whatsoever - Avalon is a repurposed Temporal Raider hideout, a time bubble effect over it making the place ideal to preserve dead people outside of time and in perfect condiction to be ressurrected when opportunity (help from a deity, spirit of light or spellcaster with the right ability) comes by.

Speaking of the Seven Sisters, weren't they related to either Morgana, the Lady of the Lake or both? Or maybe they are the muses of Greek Myth, instead? That could make for a slight twist/change of direction too, with them as masters/mistresses of arts and sciences.


Yeah, the Seven Sisters were Morgan Le Fay and her sisters. I kind of flubbed the legends by having Excalibur being there as well, along with Arthur. If New Camelot and Merlin get too oppressive or dangerous, the Lady of the Lake may point some heroic knights in Avalon's direction to find the sword and oppose them.

I hadn't considered using Temporal Raiders. Noting that Merlin is something of an autocrat might cause one with Anarchist leanings to preserve the island in time just to mess with him, should he ever free himself. That he could use Avalon for his own ends as well only sweetens the deal.

The Seven Sisters would also be powerful sorceresses and, if I use the Temporal Raider angle, possible Temporal Wizards as well.

Also, since Guenever retired to Avalon to become a nun after her affair with Lancelot was uncovered, I could use her as a foil for something.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
So, until Merlin can find Excalibur, he's commissioning a weapon of power from unknown parties to act as a symbol of the Divine Right of Kings and simultaneously a weapon against the growing danger that London presents. He's used subterfuge to crown a King for his new kingdom, but Merlin now wants to send this King on a quest to find the sword that will cement his Divine Right to rule over the Britons. It isn't much now, but once they destroy the Cult of Set in London and bring the other dangers of England under control Merlin thinks the other nation-states of England will fall in line.


Ah, so Kefren is indeed egyptian, good to know! How about insted of Set per se, Kefren served a less focused or controlling member of the Taut Pantheon, like either Anubis (loves undead), Anhur (not evil per se, but loves wargames) or a total nutcase of an unreliable divine patron, like Amon, Apep or Bes?


I used Set because that's what the Rifter used. After looking through Rifts Africa again though, maybe Anubis is a better choice. I'll have to give that one more thought.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
That's where I'm at right now. A semi-paranoid half-demon demigod trying to protect himself from threats he can't see or doesn't know about is bent on absorbing and conquering his neighbors. Sure he's instilled high ideals in the people and helped create a thriving community where people are relatively safe, but he won't understand why some people won't want to give up their autonomy to serve a King they've probably only heard about. Once the blood starts flowing, what other forces will align against him? Will the Seven Sisters give Excalibur to a worthy soul to smite the usurpers? Will the Lady of the Lake make her appearance again? I suppose that's for the game to decide.


Well, i guess i kind of commented on some of these already above, but let me try to order things.

I like the idea of a slightly traumatized Merlin that is ambitious, manipulative and proud as a demigod might be expected to be, but is actually more focused in eliminating potential threats to his freedom/safety than empire-building per se, what makes his actions more unpredictable and dubious to interpret as he throws the occasional "Screw the politicking, the undead/fomor/fae/sploogs are coming from the North, let's kick monster butt noooooooow!!!!!" rant out of the blue or brings a nuke to a spell fight, so to speak.

What doesn't make him good by any measure - "sacrifices are sommetimes necessary, ends justify the means, etc" - just makes his agenda a little more complex and less linear or clear for the observer. The idea that he might unknowingly be the linchpin of one such threat can only makes things even more twisted and tragic.

The seven Sisters and the Lady of the Lake are major wildcards. Things can be considerably different for the game depending on their powers, origins and relation to each other - are they allies, neutral, rivals, enemies, one and the same? who's back on Rifts Earth, who's not? what if "Lady of the Lake" is just a misnomer for the many sightings of the seven sisters, or instead they are the multiple personalities of an insane shapeshifting creature of magic or demigodess? Or there's a bit of both in the British Isles (remember my comment about imposters)?


By now, I was thinking of making Merlin Aberrant in alignment, specifically due to his ends justify the means yet kind of a good guy with issues vision I had for him.

I could mess the Lady of the Lake and the Seven Sisters up, but I do kind of need some stability. The Lady may oppose Merlin out of perceived self-preservation; what will Merlin do to her for imprisoning him and can she stop him in any case if she doesn't act with surprise as she sis before?

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
And speaking of the military, how does England get Power Armor? Every nation capable of getting power armor to England are skeptical of their acceptance of D-Bees, and as far as I know, anyone who would trade with them wouldn't have the capacity to ge the armor to them. So where does it come from? I'm not confident enough to create my own, though I'm sure someone could figure it out; maybe Cambridge, which would make a great export for them BTW. I don't need power armor, but it would be cool to throw some in regardless. Thanks in advance.


Dreicunan made pretty good points about the Black Market already, to which i would add that Triax merch or knock-offs are far from the only options.
At least one of the Warlords of Russia is majorly involved with the Black Market and some excerpts in Warlords, Triax 2 and the Sovietski books imply that parts of Poland (probably unrelated to Tarnow, in fact) are also pretty big in contraband, knock-offs of other nation's hardware and independent production. There's also the possibility of buying, redirecting or outright stealing stuff sold by the Splugorth and/or Phoenix Empire to the Gaargoyles, Brodkill and other minor "monster kingdoms".

Beside this, there's the old, practical standby of excavating the ruins of pre-Rifts cities and military installations for "golden age" armor, vehicles, weapons and hardware that might be salvageable. Even the Necropolis could benefit from this, specially if Kefren has intelligent remnants of the Chaos Earth era among his undead armies and/or court.

I had some other things in mind, but this post is already large enough as is. Whatever, need to take a **** and some rest. I can rant more some other time. See ya later people.


Thanks! All of this has been extremely helpful!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:35 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
Hotrod wrote:
What is life like for normal people, nobles, artisans, et cetera living under the protection of the various factions in your version of Rifts England? What do their nations ask of them? Do they live in a society with strict castes or classes? Are they expected to gather and fight for those who rule them? Since you mentioned conquest, how do the common folk of one nation respond to being conquered?

This talk about the Lady of the Lake, Merlin, and Arthur is fine and all if you're heavily focusing your campaign on Camelot. Even so, though, unless your Camelot is far and away larger and more powerful than it is in canon, you seem to be falling into the same trap as Kevin Siembieda and putting disproportionate attention on what amounts to a few minor players in one small city-state. Just as the book should have put more focus on Fomorian demons, the Eternal city, the Faerie Kingdoms, Tara, London of Splynn, and plenty of other spots (almost every millennium tree community should be considered a near peer to canon Camelot), I think you should consider defining what's going on with the various powers in your version of Rifts England. Such dynamics are far more interesting to me than the identity and history of some strange lady lying in a pond handing out swords (which is no basis for a form of government!).


I am starting off the characters in New Camelot mainly because it's the most defined area in the book and it's in my comfort zone, being the closest to a standard fantasy campaign, and do want to focus a good deal of the campaign there to start. Defining the surrounding area would certainly be beneficial, especially as they relate to New Camelot and its expansion. As for traps, this one is easy to fall into, and thank you for pointing it out. I've been trying to break the "everything is fantasy" paradigm and running against a brick wall, and your comments have helped me out greatly in this regard. I'll definitely get into the other Kingdoms soon.

Sorry if this is disjointed; I've been dealing with an attention-deprived cat while typing this. Thanks again!

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:18 pm
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
After reading the description of England in the RMB and taking another stab at reading portions of Rifts England, I'm thinking that neofeudalism is baked into the inherent setting, much like the New West is, well, the Old West. That suits me fine.

I'm moving Camelot back to where it is in World Book 3, because it makes it's conflict with Berwynmoore, which I want to play up, more believable. Sorry for moving things around again, but this way I get to use more of Hotrod's map of the British Isles, which is certainly not a bad thing.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:00 pm
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
Between Berwynmoore and New Camelot is the Eternal Kingdom, ruled from the Eternal City, which contains the Eternal Spring from which the city and kingdom's name derives. With so many feudalistic kingdoms surrounding it, The Eternal Kingdom has adopted a more liberal government loosely based on Democracy.

King Bronin acts like the President of the United States; he controls the military and can suggest agendas for the Houses to set and can veto laws enacted by the Houses as well. The House of Royals, consisting of elected members of the nobility, and the House of Commoners, elected mostly from the merchant class but supposedly represents the needs of the peasants as well, along with the King, form the Eternal Kingdom's rulership. In theory it serves the people equally, but in practice it only does so part of the time. The rich merchants who can afford an education in Cambridge can talk circles around most of those less educated than they, sometimes getting them to vote on measures that don't necessarily benefit them. The House of Royals, however, seem to have everyone's best interests at heart, noblesse oblige and all, but in reality they rarely vote for issues that affect them negatively.

The Eternal City's most valuable resource is, of course, the Springs. Many people pay good credits to bathe in it's relaxing waters. Also, the Spring water can be transformed into several different beneficial potions by willing Druids that also can be sold. This has boosted the City's economy greatly, and is the envy of many of the smaller communities surrounding it.

The Eternal Kingdom's military is mostly as one would suspect, presided over by Royal Knights who direct the regular Knights who command peasant conscripts. Since it's fairly far away from the Necropolis of London and enjoys a peace treaty with New Camelot, which it practically borders, means it doesn't have to raise an army very often. Raids on its outlying settlements of both Kingdoms by well armed bandits are rising though, and no one knows why. In truth, Queen Vanessa of Berwynmoore is equipping them in hopes of destabilizing the region. I'll get more into her plans in a later post.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:31 pm
  

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Ok, re-reading on the Lady of Lake, Fae & Krull bits got me a stupid/funny idea, bear with me.

Lady of the Lake is captured by a Fae Lord/Supernatural Intelligence - it's pretty much Krull with the Lady in the princess's place, though the bad guy likes to delude himself he's misunderstood and more the Beast from the Beauty and the Beast, but not really working at all. Incidentallly, the film's evil minions make good expies for Nexus Knights, i think.

For an extra, Merlin is aware of it all and in fact started it as a weird plan to kill two birds with one stone (very much aiming for a War of the Roses style ending). From the PC's perspective, he could be using the situation (and them) to try to obtain the true Excalibur behind their back (ssuppossing it is with her or she at least knows of its whereabout, what he could be wrong about in both instances).

In fact, you could start things indirectly, with rumors about a princess, queen or druid captured by the Beast and its minions, along with slowly spreading grumblings about wandering knights or other heroes missing the guidance of the Lady of the Lake and either seeking Merlin's instead (just as planned) or making a general call for "Quest for the Lady" (much in the vein of the search for the Grail in medieval literature), only for the PCs to find out later on those two plotlines are one and the same.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
In reality, Camelot is a buffer to any one or thing that could be a danger to him. He doesn't want to be the ruler; that's too dangerous, but the power behind the throne is where he shines. So he employed magic and psionics plus a good deal of personal charisma and powerful lessons learned and witnessed from Old Camelot to get several small villages and towns to follow him.


Still in the "not being entrapped again" train of thought, it got me thinking that Merlin's objective is not so much dominating or manipulating anything - though as a demigod that certainly entertains him - but to neutralize any major supernatural forces that might have the power to threaten him. That those beings might be an even greater danger to the fragile mortals he's guiding only makes it more of a win-win situation.


That makes sense. It also potentially gives him a reason to set his sights beyond England, particularly towards the Gargoyle Kingdoms, making him an ally of the NGR, which fits into canon. Cool!


I wasn't even thinking that far, but indeed makes room for a Merlin that can go in many relations when it comes to alliances & intrigues.

But your initial description of your campaign take as "fantasy with guns" put something else in my mind: what about the other stuff one can see in post-medieval wars one does not (usually) see in fantasy?

Things like artillery, war machines, aerial attacks & etc? Not saying one should add those things, but the occasional flash of an fantasy equivalent, like a Lord of Rings Oliphant with an earth elemental in the howdah playing magical catapult, or a flight of Gargoyles with energy rifles doing a Blitz on Camelot could make for some crazy awesome fun i guess. :P

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Kefrem? That makes me think of an egyptian pharaoh's mummy awakening in the British Museum and making it his palace from which to start the conquest of the city. Does that fit on your idea? :lol:
Incidentally, i would make Kefrem & Merlin's past confrontation something more of an impasse, just to reinforce both how they are on somewhat even ground in power & influence (what's far from a good thing) and their mutual badassness.


That's exactly what Kefrem is, as described in the Rifter I lifted the idea from (issue 27 if I remember correctly). He can raise a frighteningly large amount of undead without casting a spell (I think it's 7D6 per round at a cost of 30 PPE per undead). He's also personally powerful, with 2000 MDC and the spell casting ability of a 7th level Necromancer. And yes, I should make their initial encounter more evenly matched. Or, if not, have New Camelot march on toward London only to be repulsed by the sheer number of undead and coexisting living armies using technology available and scavenged from Kefrem's initial push to conquer London back in the Chaos Earth time frame.


Checked Rifter 27 and wow, the guy is very even matched to Mrrlyn on power level overall. Give him some undead minions with smarts, some "troop refresh" capacity & excavated weaponry and you have a quite solid set-up, even without the Dead Reign's style advantages. The British Museum on itself is a valid excuse for you insert a bunch of magical stuff of a variety of pre-rifts origins. Khefrem himself was once just another exhibit piece! Who's to say some druidic peat bog sacrifice hasn't risen again to cause trouble, as either lieutenant or rival?

About involving egyptian gods or not, it's a matter of preference - while the cult he was part of in life was supposedly of Set, the fact the ritual done in his corpse was apparently of pre-Atlantean cataclysm origins and Khefrem himself is a necromancer seems to indicate it had become a morass of occult practices with little to no ties to any actual god long before that.

Also, undead overlord with Dance 76% in London.... I don't know if i should be doing Thriller jokes, rave/techno/trance/drum & bass references or mix them and this.

On a little aside, some sort of remnant of the DI9 (England's paranormal studies agency) and their psi-tech could remain, as either some cyber-knight style society dedicated still to containing "the undying nemesis" in London, or some twisted branch of traitors of life in service of the "Necrocracy". Or both, to brew some viciously entertaining rivalry/vendetta.


1970 wrote:
I have watched the Teen Titans, but kind of missed most of that season. I have graphic novels of the original comics though, so I could look through those again. I was kind of playing up the half-demonic heritage angle to justify the Lady of the Lake not out and out killing Merlin back during the time of Old Camelot. She's afraid of his father, so won't kill him, just to be on the safe side.


While the comics are great too, i do reccomend you check out that season of the cartoon for how it distills the comics elements and makes its own path from there. Just as important (if not more so), it focus in the Titans actions and decisions, for good and for ill, what in my humble opinion ends up being far more effective as reference for a player characters perspective than the comics themselves would be in this case.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Speaking of the Seven Sisters, weren't they related to either Morgana, the Lady of the Lake or both? Or maybe they are the muses of Greek Myth, instead? That could make for a slight twist/change of direction too, with them as masters/mistresses of arts and sciences.


Yeah, the Seven Sisters were Morgan Le Fay and her sisters. I kind of flubbed the legends by having Excalibur being there as well, along with Arthur. If New Camelot and Merlin get too oppressive or dangerous, the Lady of the Lake may point some heroic knights in Avalon's direction to find the sword and oppose them.

I hadn't considered using Temporal Raiders. Noting that Merlin is something of an autocrat might cause one with Anarchist leanings to preserve the island in time just to mess with him, should he ever free himself. That he could use Avalon for his own ends as well only sweetens the deal.

The Seven Sisters would also be powerful sorceresses and, if I use the Temporal Raider angle, possible Temporal Wizards as well.

Also, since Guenever retired to Avalon to become a nun after her affair with Lancelot was uncovered, I could use her as a foil for something.


Well, i suggested Avalon as a Temporal Wizard hideout/community exactly because it takes a bit of legendry in an unexpected direction, while using stuff that is already in the worldbook, but gets. You could pick or combine those bits in a number of ways.

For example, you can check this for someting completely different mixing arthurian & fae themes with time travel.

And speaking of Guinevere.... New Camelot has a twist on things by having a Guinevere as an "apprentice" of Merlin but actually another aspect of Zazshan the entity behind it all. So how about having a twist-of-the-twist: a mysterious and timid damsel that Merlin rescued and brought to court as a ward. Except she's not Merlin's pupil, but teacher of sorts - powerful but amnesiac magician whose expertise he has been exploiting to boost his own. At least that was what he intended - except slowly and without really meaning to, she started to gain the hearts of some among servants and knights, growing in the court and eventually getting the attention of the hero king himself.

Merlin did not plan for this and is himself uncertain of what to do: should he separate these puppets to avoid complications or use the forming situation in his favor, as their new roles and feelings make them even more motivated in playing their papers in his script?

For now he waits and sees their dance, a convoluted and ambivalent one, of a lord dedicated heroism, adventuring and dreams all young men dream but also aware of duties and the shadow of dying without heir or legacy and a lady uncertain of where she stands, of loving or dreaming too far, of overstepping her undefined place, of shadows of a barely remembered past, sometimes strange, sometimes familiar, but that sometimes she feels like might almost be repeating herself....

Because the name the lady herself forgot is Morgana Le Fey

A Morgana whom Merlin himself could not recognize after almost two millenia of separation, changes and her loss of identity. The lost sister of Avalon, who left the isle to investigate Rifts Earth for her sisters and whose lack of return or any news make them even more fearful and dread for the future and her fate. She smiles, dances, plays heroine and loves deeply - a false king that usurps the throne that was her brother's without even knowing. With all her heart. Will truth break or reforge it? And how?

1970 wrote:
I could mess the Lady of the Lake and the Seven Sisters up, but I do kind of need some stability. The Lady may oppose Merlin out of perceived self-preservation; what will Merlin do to her for imprisoning him and can she stop him in any case if she doesn't act with surprise as she did before?


The key here then is to define what each one of them is - as in power level, specific capacities, interests, resources and agendas - and how connected or not are they to each other. Me, i'm tempted to make the Lady a being akin to the Tharsis (water) spirit of light, maybe mixed in with CS Navy's Maeltrom-Maker and its "limited witchery pact" power, for a play on Krull and the princess' "gift of love" to the hero. Quite powerful (easily godling level) but still no goddess or the equal of a Merlin with Mrrlyn's stats.

Hotrod wrote:
What is life like for normal people, nobles, artisans, et cetera living under the protection of the various factions in your version of Rifts England? What do their nations ask of them? Do they live in a society with strict castes or classes? Are they expected to gather and fight for those who rule them? Since you mentioned conquest, how do the common folk of one nation respond to being conquered?


That is partly what i intended to touch before my last post became a little too long for my tastes. The other, less explored parts of Rifts England, outside the Camelot/world of chivalry millieu. But priorities are exist and i'm pretty ok with adressing New Camelot first, exactly because it is a familiar & thorny element and something of an elephant in the room. Deciding what you want to keep, what stays as is, what gets some reworking and what gets the axe helps to clean up and free space for everything else.

The Eternal city, Tara, Berwynmoore and other feudal domains mentioned in passing are very much extra moving pieces of the same "world of chivalry/courtly intrigue & romance" millieu, so i would say adressing Camelot definitely affects and involves them too.

As an aside, i would like to bring up that 21st century British Isles are a far more cosmopolitan and culturally & ethnically diverse than medieval Europe, what may result in interesting differences or imagery mixes in their post-apocalyptic descendants ideas of knightood, like visuals straight of Mughal India, Iran of the Shahs, 1001 Nights, the Mahabarata or much else besides.

London of Splynn i feel pretty safe in assuming we won't see much of when the OP said he wanted to use the Chaos Earth's "Imhotep takes over" version of London instead in one of the first posts. That and the whole "England as basic fantasy" title.

Sploog stuff might come up, but i suspect not quite in the same fashion or so major a place.

Well, the Faerie Kingdoms are as relevant or not as one wants to make them - overall in PF books, not much, as 9 times out of 10 they are little more than tricksters or pranksters, if endearing, annoying or maliciously dangerous depending on GM or the players (and opinion can vary wildly on which they are depending on which one you are in the occasion).

The Fomorians.... yes they are a bid deal. But honestly, they are kind of like the Atlantis of WB3, a high tier overpower/final boss level of threat. 90% of the time they are busy being the norse giants to the celtic gods Asgard and maybe trample or raid you perfunctorily on occasion as colateral to bigger stuff they are aiming for. When they are not , ok, time to run to the bunkers (or do some crazy backstabbery/commando/intrigue stunt to break up the new situation and get them back in their own little world/eternal war cycle).
The Norse Gods chapter of Pantheons of the Megaverse (or the G cycle of D&D) could provide lots on ideas to mine.

I agree about the millennium tree/druid communities certainly deserve some more attention indeed - specially as it involves adressing another elephant in the room: the Nog Henge "Druids" (who are actually Chiang-Ku dragons in disguise). Are they still around? Do they oppose Merlin and New Camelot? Are there real druids among them? How much do the druid communities know about them and how aware is it of their deception and/or agenda?

But that and my thoughts on the OCCs and RCCs of WB3 and what their groupings could be up to, i'll leave for another post just on the subject. See ya.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:04 am
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
Ok, re-reading on the Lady of Lake, Fae & Krull bits got me a stupid/funny idea, bear with me.

Lady of the Lake is captured by a Fae Lord/Supernatural Intelligence - it's pretty much Krull with the Lady in the princess's place, though the bad guy likes to delude himself he's misunderstood and more the Beast from the Beauty and the Beast, but not really working at all. Incidentallly, the film's evil minions make good expies for Nexus Knights, i think.

For an extra, Merlin is aware of it all and in fact started it as a weird plan to kill two birds with one stone (very much aiming for a War of the Roses style ending). From the PC's perspective, he could be using the situation (and them) to try to obtain the true Excalibur behind their back (ssuppossing it is with her or she at least knows of its whereabout, what he could be wrong about in both instances).

In fact, you could start things indirectly, with rumors about a princess, queen or druid captured by the Beast and its minions, along with slowly spreading grumblings about wandering knights or other heroes missing the guidance of the Lady of the Lake and either seeking Merlin's instead (just as planned) or making a general call for "Quest for the Lady" (much in the vein of the search for the Grail in medieval literature), only for the PCs to find out later on those two plotlines are one and the same.


Having the Lady of the Lake kidnapped by a powerful external force sounds pretty cool, as does having the Knights of New Camelot (or really anywhere within the vicinity, like The Eternal City or Berwynmoore) looking for her without really knowing that it's her; she's just a fair maiden needing rescue as far as they know. Also, using the Nexus Knights as agents of this power is a great way to re-purpose them.

SolCannibal wrote:
About involving egyptian gods or not, it's a matter of preference - while the cult he was part of in life was supposedly of Set, the fact the ritual done in his corpse was apparently of pre-Atlantean cataclysm origins and Khefrem himself is a necromancer seems to indicate it had become a morass of occult practices with little to no ties to any actual god long before that.


I mostly included the Theocracy angle as a reason for Kefrem to not just be another nihilistic villain. He has a god to serve and an empire to build to give him goals. I could see him worshiping the entire Pantheon of Taut instead of just Set, which could give his Empire less cohesion, explaining why they haven't been able to expand their territory very much over the past however many years.

SolCannibal wrote:
Well, i suggested Avalon as a Temporal Wizard hideout/community exactly because it takes a bit of legendry in an unexpected direction, while using stuff that is already in the worldbook, but gets. You could pick or combine those bits in a number of ways.

For example, you can check this for someting completely different mixing arthurian & fae themes with time travel.

And speaking of Guinevere.... New Camelot has a twist on things by having a Guinevere as an "apprentice" of Merlin but actually another aspect of Zazshan the entity behind it all. So how about having a twist-of-the-twist: a mysterious and timid damsel that Merlin rescued and brought to court as a ward. Except she's not Merlin's pupil, but teacher of sorts - powerful but amnesiac magician whose expertise he has been exploiting to boost his own. At least that was what he intended - except slowly and without really meaning to, she started to gain the hearts of some among servants and knights, growing in the court and eventually getting the attention of the hero king himself.

Merlin did not plan for this and is himself uncertain of what to do: should he separate these puppets to avoid complications or use the forming situation in his favor, as their new roles and feelings make them even more motivated in playing their papers in his script?

For now he waits and sees their dance, a convoluted and ambivalent one, of a lord dedicated heroism, adventuring and dreams all young men dream but also aware of duties and the shadow of dying without heir or legacy and a lady uncertain of where she stands, of loving or dreaming too far, of overstepping her undefined place, of shadows of a barely remembered past, sometimes strange, sometimes familiar, but that sometimes she feels like might almost be repeating herself....

Because the name the lady herself forgot is Morgana Le Fey

A Morgana whom Merlin himself could not recognize after almost two millenia of separation, changes and her loss of identity. The lost sister of Avalon, who left the isle to investigate Rifts Earth for her sisters and whose lack of return or any news make them even more fearful and dread for the future and her fate. She smiles, dances, plays heroine and loves deeply - a false king that usurps the throne that was her brother's without even knowing. With all her heart. Will truth break or reforge it? And how?


I don't know how Morgan would lose her memory except as a temporal mishap after spending millennia existing in Avalon but it's an awesome concept so it probably doesn't matter. :-)

Thanks again for your inspiring posts!

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:02 am
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Ok, re-reading on the Lady of Lake, Fae & Krull bits got me a stupid/funny idea, bear with me.

Lady of the Lake is captured by a Fae Lord/Supernatural Intelligence - it's pretty much Krull with the Lady in the princess's place, though the bad guy likes to delude himself he's misunderstood and more the Beast from the Beauty and the Beast, but not really working at all. Incidentallly, the film's evil minions make good expies for Nexus Knights, i think.

For an extra, Merlin is aware of it all and in fact started it as a weird plan to kill two birds with one stone (very much aiming for a War of the Roses style ending). From the PC's perspective, he could be using the situation (and them) to try to obtain the true Excalibur behind their back (ssuppossing it is with her or she at least knows of its whereabout, what he could be wrong about in both instances).

In fact, you could start things indirectly, with rumors about a princess, queen or druid captured by the Beast and its minions, along with slowly spreading grumblings about wandering knights or other heroes missing the guidance of the Lady of the Lake and either seeking Merlin's instead (just as planned) or making a general call for "Quest for the Lady" (much in the vein of the search for the Grail in medieval literature), only for the PCs to find out later on those two plotlines are one and the same.


Having the Lady of the Lake kidnapped by a powerful external force sounds pretty cool, as does having the Knights of New Camelot (or really anywhere within the vicinity, like The Eternal City or Berwynmoore) looking for her without really knowing that it's her; she's just a fair maiden needing rescue as far as they know. Also, using the Nexus Knights as agents of this power is a great way to re-purpose them.


Good that you liked that and yeah, the mooks of Krull made repurposing the Nexus Knights kind of natural. Name makes even more sense with them as a sort of invading or marauding force, imho.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
About involving egyptian gods or not, it's a matter of preference - while the cult he was part of in life was supposedly of Set, the fact the ritual done in his corpse was apparently of pre-Atlantean cataclysm origins and Khefrem himself is a necromancer seems to indicate it had become a morass of occult practices with little to no ties to any actual god long before that.


I mostly included the Theocracy angle as a reason for Kefrem to not just be another nihilistic villain. He has a god to serve and an empire to build to give him goals. I could see him worshiping the entire Pantheon of Taut instead of just Set, which could give his Empire less cohesion, explaining why they haven't been able to expand their territory very much over the past however many years.


Well, goals for a bad guy i can relate to, though giving him an agenda of his own, kind of like Pharaoh Rama-Set serves the Taut but still does his own thing, could be nice too. Let's say, for example, being somewhat resentful that he ended up half a world away from home and it is that draconic foreign upstart, Rama-Set, that actually rules the land of pharaohs instead and uses some nexus in his domain - one that connects to the Phoenix Empire, thanks to an obelisk, sphynx or minaret also brought from Egypt by the british - to send agents to spy, intrigue and generally caause trouble in any way he can.

Me, i like to mine what skills a NPC has in its stats for little glimpses on its personality. On a quick look, Khefrem has high (76+%) levels in:

- Astronomy - great for planning on the use & abuse of celestial alignements, eclipses and the kind of ley line upheaval they generate.
Could develop into a liking for Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking videos (or space exploration related stuff) too.

- Wilderness Survival - implying he was quite the outdoorsman/wandering mystic/big game hunter in life, traits that he might still possess and could lead to him going on expeditions beyond his domain, with or without a retinue, from time to time.

- Dance. Need i say "raves" again? :lol:
Having some prisioners or more willing servants whose only value for him is as entertainment in the form of musicians or dancing performers would fit with this and offer something to built a court/social life around too.

Also, lycanthropes in egyptian costumes. Werewolves in London costumed like dime store anubises playing sergeants to the undead army is a must. :P

And not to forget, his base/palace is supposed to be. While set a whole continent away in New York, the Night at the Museum series of films makes great (humorous) reference to just how varied in crazy stuff a post-Rifts British Museum might be. Oh boy, one of them has the protagonist going to the British Museum.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Well, i suggested Avalon as a Temporal Wizard hideout/community exactly because it takes a bit of legendry in an unexpected direction, while using stuff that is already in the worldbook, but gets. You could pick or combine those bits in a number of ways.

For example, you can check this for someting completely different mixing arthurian & fae themes with time travel.

And speaking of Guinevere.... New Camelot has a twist on things by having a Guinevere as an "apprentice" of Merlin but actually another aspect of Zazshan the entity behind it all. So how about having a twist-of-the-twist: a mysterious and timid damsel that Merlin rescued and brought to court as a ward. Except she's not Merlin's pupil, but teacher of sorts - powerful but amnesiac magician whose expertise he has been exploiting to boost his own. At least that was what he intended - except slowly and without really meaning to, she started to gain the hearts of some among servants and knights, growing in the court and eventually getting the attention of the hero king himself.

Merlin did not plan for this and is himself uncertain of what to do: should he separate these puppets to avoid complications or use the forming situation in his favor, as their new roles and feelings make them even more motivated in playing their papers in his script?

For now he waits and sees their dance, a convoluted and ambivalent one, of a lord dedicated heroism, adventuring and dreams all young men dream but also aware of duties and the shadow of dying without heir or legacy and a lady uncertain of where she stands, of loving or dreaming too far, of overstepping her undefined place, of shadows of a barely remembered past, sometimes strange, sometimes familiar, but that sometimes she feels like might almost be repeating herself....

Because the name the lady herself forgot is Morgana Le Fey

A Morgana whom Merlin himself could not recognize after almost two millenia of separation, changes and her loss of identity. The lost sister of Avalon, who left the isle to investigate Rifts Earth for her sisters and whose lack of return or any news make them even more fearful and dread for the future and her fate. She smiles, dances, plays heroine and loves deeply - a false king that usurps the throne that was her brother's without even knowing. With all her heart. Will truth break or reforge it? And how?


I don't know how Morgan would lose her memory except as a temporal mishap after spending millennia existing in Avalon but it's an awesome concept so it probably doesn't matter. :-)


Lots of ways - its Rifts Earth, even high level characters may come across a random threat that is more than they can chew (like the Bres/Balor II random encounter :twisted: :lol:) and end up trounced and in need of rescue.


Last edited by SolCannibal on Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:55 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
Well, goals for a bad guy i can relate to, though giving him an agenda of his own, kind of like Pharaoh Rama-Set serves the Taut but still does his own thing, could be nice too. Let's say, for example, being somewhat resentful that he ended up half a world away from home and it is that draconic foreign upstart, Rama-Set, that actually rules the land of pharaohs instead and uses some nexus in his domain - one that connects to the Phoenix Empire, thanks to an obelisk, sphynx or minaret also brought from Egypt by the british - to send agents to spy, intrigue and generally caause trouble in any way he can.

Me, i like to mine what skills a NPC has in its stats for little glimpses on its personality. On a quick look, Khefrem has high (76+%) levels in:

- Astronomy - great for planning on the use & abuse of celestial alignements, eclipses and the kind of ley line upheaval they generate.
Could develop into a liking for Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking videos (or space exploration related stuff) too.

- Wilderness Survival - implying he was quite the outdoorsman/wandering mystic/big game hunter in life, traits that he might still possess and could lead to him going on expeditions beyond his domain, with or without a retinue, from time to time.

- Dance. Need i say "raves" again? :lol:
Having some prisioners or more willing servants whose only value for him is as entertainment in the form of musicians or dancing performers would fit with this and offer something to built a court/social life around too.

Also, lycanthropes in egyptian costumes. Werewolves in London costumed like dime store anubises playing sergeants to the undead army is a must. :P

And not to forget, his base/palace is supposed to be. While set a whole continent away in New York, the Night at the Museum series of films makes great (humorous) reference to just how varied in crazy stuff a post-Rifts British Museum might be. Oh boy, one of them has the protagonist going to the British Museum.


Hadn't thought of using skills to define a character. Having a society to play with is a must, and entertainment has definite value. Maybe he's trading with Atlantis for interesting slaves. I've already decided to have a Splugorthian Embassy of sorts there, so getting interesting slaves shouldn't be too hard for him.

As for spying on Rama-Set, it's almost a given. Being jealous of him isn't something I'd considered. As far as I'm concerned, Kefrem isn't a fan of Rama-Set for many reasons, including his goals of destroying everything. I'd see Kefrem sending covert help to the Gathering of Heroe and if he is discovered they can come to England to get their revenge, which would be unlikely.

SolCannibal wrote:
Lots of ways - its Rifts Earth, even high level characters may come across a random threat that is more than they can chew (like the Bres/Balor II random encounter :twisted: :lol:) and end up trounced and in need of rescue.


I had actually considered having the Lady of the Lake kidnapped by the Fomorians and was being kept by Bres, whom I desperately want to use but cant find a good way to since he's all the way up north.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:25 pm
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Well, goals for a bad guy i can relate to, though giving him an agenda of his own, kind of like Pharaoh Rama-Set serves the Taut but still does his own thing, could be nice too. Let's say, for example, being somewhat resentful that he ended up half a world away from home and it is that draconic foreign upstart, Rama-Set, that actually rules the land of pharaohs instead and uses some nexus in his domain - one that connects to the Phoenix Empire, thanks to an obelisk, sphynx or minaret also brought from Egypt by the british - to send agents to spy, intrigue and generally caause trouble in any way he can.

Me, i like to mine what skills a NPC has in its stats for little glimpses on its personality. On a quick look, Khefrem has high (76+%) levels in:

- Astronomy - great for planning on the use & abuse of celestial alignements, eclipses and the kind of ley line upheaval they generate.
Could develop into a liking for Carl Sagan or Stephen Hawking videos (or space exploration related stuff) too.

- Wilderness Survival - implying he was quite the outdoorsman/wandering mystic/big game hunter in life, traits that he might still possess and could lead to him going on expeditions beyond his domain, with or without a retinue, from time to time.

- Dance. Need i say "raves" again? :lol:
Having some prisioners or more willing servants whose only value for him is as entertainment in the form of musicians or dancing performers would fit with this and offer something to built a court/social life around too.

Also, lycanthropes in egyptian costumes. Werewolves in London costumed like dime store anubises playing sergeants to the undead army is a must. :P

And not to forget, his base/palace is supposed to be. While set a whole continent away in New York, the Night at the Museum series of films makes great (humorous) reference to just how varied in crazy stuff a post-Rifts British Museum might be. Oh boy, one of them has the protagonist going to the British Museum.


Hadn't thought of using skills to define a character. Having a society to play with is a must, and entertainment has definite value. Maybe he's trading with Atlantis for interesting slaves. I've already decided to have a Splugorthian Embassy of sorts there, so getting interesting slaves shouldn't be too hard for him.

As for spying on Rama-Set, it's almost a given. Being jealous of him isn't something I'd considered. As far as I'm concerned, Kefrem isn't a fan of Rama-Set for many reasons, including his goals of destroying everything. I'd see Kefrem sending covert help to the Gathering of Heroes and if he is discovered they can come to England to get their revenge, which would be unlikely.


Using a NPC's skillset to flesh its character is a little personal habit (might say vice) of mine. Can be quite helpful in giving villains something beyond "power-hungry" and "does it for the eeeeeeevil!" for traits, interests or methods.

The rivalry with Rama-Set can go lots of places, both interfering in Africa per se, or playing spy games around the Phoenix Empire's support to the Gargoyle Empire and other monster kingdoms (what also indirectly the NGR and England itself).

Ah, a little random, silly aside....

Khefren, Chephren or Khephren is the hellenized (aka translated to ancient greek) form of Khafra, the egyptian name that might or not be the undead priest-king's true one.

Khefrem is the name of a place in the Elder Scrolls series of games. Editing error or is Alex Tulloch a fan? Anyway, i like the image of an egyptian undead overlord that learned of videogames, developed a liking for some (and so, this idiocy) and further mangled his moniker as nerd trolling. :wink:

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Lots of ways - its Rifts Earth, even high level characters may come across a random threat that is more than they can chew (like the Bres/Balor II random encounter :twisted: :lol:) and end up trounced and in need of rescue.


I had actually considered having the Lady of the Lake kidnapped by the Fomorians and was being kept by Bres, whom I desperately want to use but cant find a good way to since he's all the way up north.


As i mentioned previously, i see the fomorians as an Splugorth-tier threat. Everybody else in the book (excepting the celtic gods) is overmatched by them and their appearances should be punctual moments to show just how out of scale they are - think about how "Morgana as unwitting queen" can be a big deal in games related to Camelot & its rivals.

And it all starts because Bres (or Balor II) trampled her, just because he could, without even caring who she was (and might not even know), if he even remembers the encounter.

They either play with mortals through a variety of minions or 3rd parties - not because they care to build a power base or see their neighbors as potential threats to be neutralized, but for the sake of bets and entertainment, or go wandering around and capture or attack whatever gets their attention in the way, pretty much like an atlantean slaver squad.

All of that said, here's a little something possibly relevant to a GM's plot-weaving interests:

WB3: Rifts England, pg.125-126 wrote:
Most fomorians, male and female, are warriors. 10% are Blood Druids very similar to their human counterparts in France.

Note: There are nearly 100,000 fomorians living in the highlands of Scotland, Orkney and the northern islands.


That's a lot of MDC blood druids to cause trouble to Millenium Tree huggers. Now imagine if they convinced Bres to invade/relocate the Tree of Darkness in Germany, or found someone to make a sprout from it catch somewhere in the north.... :twisted:


The Cernun Mystics might or not be a concern for the Fomorians if their special mind control power applies to other beings beside the Gigantes.
Fomorians are just as grotesque/deformed and with I.Q.: 2D6+2, not that much smarter.

That said, you'd have to roll 4 or lower in 2d6 to end up with a fomor stupid enough to be "minion of the Cernun" material.
Being utterly uncaring about someone snatching the dumbest of their own for slaves fits well a brutal, evil, slaving race of demonic giants.
"Who cares, we can always rescue our bros back by crushing the little gecko if we come across a band..."

Bres, Balor II and other leaders might be somewhat more bothered, as stupid or not, it's their horde of minions those smug snakes are poaching on....

If Gigantes are the only ones the Cernun can control in such a way, gaining access to a nexus or rift connecting to the Baalgor Wastelands in Palladium or other locales in the Megaverse with access to a Gigantes population becomes a major factor in the plans of any ambitious individual or cabal of that race.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:08 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Lots of ways - its Rifts Earth, even high level characters may come across a random threat that is more than they can chew (like the Bres/Balor II random encounter :twisted: :lol:) and end up trounced and in need of rescue.


I had actually considered having the Lady of the Lake kidnapped by the Fomorians and was being kept by Bres, whom I desperately want to use but cant find a good way to since he's all the way up north.


As i mentioned previously, i see the fomorians as an Splugorth-tier threat. Everybody else in the book (excepting the celtic gods) is overmatched by them and their appearances should be punctual moments to show just how out of scale they are - think about how "Morgana as unwitting queen" can be a big deal in games related to Camelot & its rivals.

And it all starts because Bres (or Balor II) trampled her, just because he could, without even caring who she was (and might not even know), if he even remembers the encounter.

They either play with mortals through a variety of minions or 3rd parties - not because they care to build a power base or see their neighbors as potential threats to be neutralized, but for the sake of bets and entertainment, or go wandering around and capture or attack whatever gets their attention in the way, pretty much like an atlantean slaver squad.


I could see Morgana running into a group of Fomorians, as they range pretty much everywhere in Rifts England in small numbers, getting pounded, escaping, found by a Knight, brought back to New Camelot, and so on. Merlin uses his psionics (See Aura) and discovers she's not all she seems, but she doesn't know it because she got thwapped on the head or something. Merlin keeps her close to him and the Court so he can keep an eye on her and figure out who/what she is and how he can manipulate the situation to his benefit.

SolCannibal wrote:
All of that said, here's a little something possibly relevant to a GM's plot-weaving interests:

WB3: Rifts England, pg.125-126 wrote:
Most fomorians, male and female, are warriors. 10% are Blood Druids very similar to their human counterparts in France.

Note: There are nearly 100,000 fomorians living in the highlands of Scotland, Orkney and the northern islands.


That's a lot of MDC blood druids to cause trouble to Millenium Tree huggers. Now imagine if they convinced Bres to invade/relocate the Tree of Darkness in Germany, or found someone to make a sprout from it catch somewhere in the north.... :twisted:


Fomorians, as written, can't get within 3000ft of a Millennium Tree. Tree huggers hide, fomorians look forlorn. It's too bad, but I'm working out a deal between Bres and some enslaved Pict-like barbarians who can get close enough to a Tree to do some damage. I'm playing with the idea that their woad makes them minor mega-damage creatures (MDC=PE trait) and gives them bonuses similar to the Berserkers from Conversion Book 2.

SolCannibal wrote:
The Cernun Mystics might or not be a concern for the Fomorians if their special mind control power applies to other beings beside the Gigantes.
Fomorians are just as grotesque/deformed and with I.Q.: 2D6+2, not that much smarter.

That said, you'd have to roll 4 or lower in 2d6 to end up with a fomor stupid enough to be "minion of the Cernun" material.
Being utterly uncaring about someone snatching the dumbest of their own for slaves fits well a brutal, evil, slaving race of demonic giants.
"Who cares, we can always rescue our bros back by crushing the little gecko if we come across a band..."

Bres, Balor II and other leaders might be somewhat more bothered, as stupid or not, it's their horde of minions those smug snakes are poaching on....

If Gigantes are the only ones the Cernun can control in such a way, gaining access to a nexus or rift connecting to the Baalgor Wastelands in Palladium or other locales in the Megaverse with access to a Gigantes population becomes a major factor in the plans of any ambitious individual or cabal of that race.


I don't have any real plans for the Cernun Mystics as of yet. Rifts Aftermath mentions that they've mostly disappeared and no one, not even Mrrlyn the Essence Fragment, knows why. I'll definitely include one or two because they're cool, I just don't know how yet. I don't have the Baalgor Wastes book, but I remember some cool Gigantes stuff from the Mount Nimro book. I'll have to look and see. Thanks!

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:30 pm
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Lots of ways - its Rifts Earth, even high level characters may come across a random threat that is more than they can chew (like the Bres/Balor II random encounter :twisted: :lol:) and end up trounced and in need of rescue.


I had actually considered having the Lady of the Lake kidnapped by the Fomorians and was being kept by Bres, whom I desperately want to use but cant find a good way to since he's all the way up north.


As i mentioned previously, i see the fomorians as an Splugorth-tier threat. Everybody else in the book (excepting the celtic gods) is overmatched by them and their appearances should be punctual moments to show just how out of scale they are - think about how "Morgana as unwitting queen" can be a big deal in games related to Camelot & its rivals.

And it all starts because Bres (or Balor II) trampled her, just because he could, without even caring who she was (and might not even know), if he even remembers the encounter.

They either play with mortals through a variety of minions or 3rd parties - not because they care to build a power base or see their neighbors as potential threats to be neutralized, but for the sake of bets and entertainment, or go wandering around and capture or attack whatever gets their attention in the way, pretty much like an atlantean slaver squad.


I could see Morgana running into a group of Fomorians, as they range pretty much everywhere in Rifts England in small numbers, getting pounded, escaping, found by a Knight, brought back to New Camelot, and so on. Merlin uses his psionics (See Aura) and discovers she's not all she seems, but she doesn't know it because she got thwapped on the head or something. Merlin keeps her close to him and the Court so he can keep an eye on her and figure out who/what she is and how he can manipulate the situation to his benefit.


That's the spirit!

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
All of that said, here's a little something possibly relevant to a GM's plot-weaving interests:

WB3: Rifts England, pg.125-126 wrote:
Most fomorians, male and female, are warriors. 10% are Blood Druids very similar to their human counterparts in France.

Note: There are nearly 100,000 fomorians living in the highlands of Scotland, Orkney and the northern islands.


That's a lot of MDC blood druids to cause trouble to Millenium Tree huggers. Now imagine if they convinced Bres to invade/relocate the Tree of Darkness in Germany, or found someone to make a sprout from it catch somewhere in the north.... :twisted:


Fomorians, as written, can't get within 3000ft of a Millennium Tree. Tree huggers hide, fomorians look forlorn. It's too bad, but I'm working out a deal between Bres and some enslaved Pict-like barbarians who can get close enough to a Tree to do some damage. I'm playing with the idea that their woad makes them minor mega-damage creatures (MDC=PE trait) and gives them bonuses similar to the Berserkers from Conversion Book 2.


Well, they are blood druids, there lots of things a group of them might try to make the livess of the tree huggers miserable. Like messing with other populations to cause a wave of refugees and burden the tree in Scotland and its millenium druids with an overpopulation problem, for example.

And MDC blood druids can be trouble for lots of other people in lots of other places on their own.

Also, how about T-men slaves from Atlantis or a tribe of tattooed ogres serving a rogue Chiang-Ku hatchling messing around?

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
The Cernun Mystics might or not be a concern for the Fomorians if their special mind control power applies to other beings beside the Gigantes.
Fomorians are just as grotesque/deformed and with I.Q.: 2D6+2, not that much smarter.

That said, you'd have to roll 4 or lower in 2d6 to end up with a fomor stupid enough to be "minion of the Cernun" material.
Being utterly uncaring about someone snatching the dumbest of their own for slaves fits well a brutal, evil, slaving race of demonic giants.
"Who cares, we can always rescue our bros back by crushing the little gecko if we come across a band..."

Bres, Balor II and other leaders might be somewhat more bothered, as stupid or not, it's their horde of minions those smug snakes are poaching on....

If Gigantes are the only ones the Cernun can control in such a way, gaining access to a nexus or rift connecting to the Baalgor Wastelands in Palladium or other locales in the Megaverse with access to a Gigantes population becomes a major factor in the plans of any ambitious individual or cabal of that race.


I don't have any real plans for the Cernun Mystics as of yet. Rifts Aftermath mentions that they've mostly disappeared and no one, not even Mrrlyn the Essence Fragment, knows why. I'll definitely include one or two because they're cool, I just don't know how yet. I don't have the Baalgor Wastes book, but I remember some cool Gigantes stuff from the Mount Nimro book. I'll have to look and see. Thanks!


That disappearance could be just the calm before the storm, as they finally finish years of preparations. Or recouping losses after they tried to mess with the Fomorii and it ended badly for them. :wink:

Might have mixed up Baalgor & Nimro, actually. But i suspect either book might be of use if you feel like playing with Cernun mystics with bands of Gigantes.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:44 pm
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
Berwynmoore used to be the place to go. It had a lively market and its military kept the advances of the Necropolis of London at bay. Not too long ago, New Camelot sprung into existence and things changed. Its markets were bigger and its location was better, as in further away from the Necropolis. Now Berwynmoore is just a place en route to this upstart nation. The Eternal Kingdom still shows up on occasion and there's still trade with Cambridge, but the Kingdom is a shadow of what it used to be.

This sits ill with Queen Vanessa. To call her an elderly woman would be kind. This ancient crone has nothing in her heart except hate and thoughts of revenge, traits she's instilled into her children. There isn't much she can do from her position, but she's recently been in contact with der Verbrecher-Geschaeftsnetz, the German arm of the Black Market, from whom she's been buying Triax-brand weapons and cybernetics/bionics, which she turns around and sells to cutthroats and brigands (never to her own Knights, as they might be traced back to her). She then hires the well-armed thugs to harass merchant caravans, lone Knights of other Kingdoms, and smaller settlements in an effort to destabilize the region. When enough is enough, she'll send her Knights to wipe the brigands out and receive all the glory, showing that it's still a power to be reckoned with, and perhaps draw new trade to Berwynmoore Kingdom.

Other than this, the Queen and her children are bitter autocrats who have been backed into an economic and social corner and don't know how to get out. Even their trade partners in Cambridge are negotiating trade routes with New Camelot and The Eternal Kingdom to avoid Berwynmoore over their increasingly stifling tariffs, meant to supplement lost trade with The Eternal Kingdom and points West. If Cambridge leaves it as well, there will be no one of consequence left, and as the credits dry up, the necessary cutbacks to the military and the Queen's personal loans to der Verbrecher-Geschaeftsnetz may cripple the Kingdom, leaving it a tarnished gem for the Necropolis of London to pluck.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:59 pm
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
Also, how about T-men slaves from Atlantis or a tribe of tattooed ogres serving a rogue Chiang-Ku hatchling messing around?


As I mentioned earlier, Atlantis does have diplomatic ties with the Necropolis of London, so bringing in T-Men wouldn't be a problem, but they wouldn't be the Pictish Barbarians I had envisioned. Having some mystic tattoos, like the Yakuza in Rifts Japan that have nothing to do with the Chiang-Ku or the Atlantians fits the area better I think, plus it blends in with the everything's gone back to 500AD vibe Rifts England puts forth.

SolCannibal wrote:
That disappearance could be just the calm before the storm, as they finally finish years of preparations. Or recouping losses after they tried to mess with the Fomorii and it ended badly for them. :wink:

Might have mixed up Baalgor & Nimro, actually. But i suspect either book might be of use if you feel like playing with Cernun mystics with bands of Gigantes.


Oh it's definitely the calm before the storm, but unless Palladium puts out another State of the World book I don't think we'll ever see what comes of it. I'll probably ignore the missing lizards angle, and have them roaming about waiting for goodly Knights for their Gigantes to smash. :wink:

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:47 pm
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
New Camelot used to be nothing but a tract of land and some small to medium-sized villages. They were relatively prosperous and, as neighbors to the Eternal Kingdom, enjoyed a certain amount of protection from marauding monsters and bored fae lords and ladies. Then a man came amongst them, a powerful man with a knack for people and dreams of something bigger than what they had. After several days of conversations, storytelling, political maneuvering, and no uncertain amount of manipulation by this stranger led to a coalition of these villages into a small kingdom. The man, Merlin, dubbed it New Camelot, and so it was done. A King was chosen and the other leaders claimed royal blood over this conglomeration.

Since then New Camelot has grown. The Eternal Kingdom was, at first, dismayed at the prospect of a new economic force, but quickly realized the benefits of having a trading partner so close as opposed to Berwynmoore Kingdom, which was not only far away, but made for a much more dangerous trek. Soon The Kingdom welcomed New Camelot with open arms. As New Camelot gained recognition, other surrounding settlements annexed themselves to the burgeoning nation, leading to further economic prosperity. While New Camelot's military was not sufficient to protect an area so large, Merlin raised heroes from the past to aid them (note: these are the Ghost Knights mentioned in Rifts England), and slowly they built an army aside from the Ghost Knights that would be the envy of many other kingdoms.

As an enlightened neo-feudal kingdom, New Camelot, while expecting much of its peasantry, gives them much as well, and if any are dissatisfied they are free to leave on their own. In return for their wares, they gain protection and a real sense of being a part of something greater than themselves. Even those who grumble look forward to the many tournaments and festivals the Kingdom provides and understand that their lives are easier and safer then many of the independent villages and even some of the smaller kingdoms.

Now New Camelot's armies are more of a semi-standing militia. Not much else is needed now that its reputation is settled. Most of these men and women are armed with SDC weapons, with some more senior members having an energy rifle they're familiar with. None command more respect than the heavy guard; these power armor pilots are the vanguard of New Camelot's Marches. Though owned by the Kingdom, the pilot and their families are given stewardship of the machines, and their operators are hereditary.

For now, this is how New Camelot stands.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:15 pm
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Also, how about T-men slaves from Atlantis or a tribe of tattooed ogres serving a rogue Chiang-Ku hatchling messing around?


As I mentioned earlier, Atlantis does have diplomatic ties with the Necropolis of London, so bringing in T-Men wouldn't be a problem, but they wouldn't be the Pictish Barbarians I had envisioned. Having some mystic tattoos, like the Yakuza in Rifts Japan that have nothing to do with the Chiang-Ku or the Atlantians fits the area better I think, plus it blends in with the everything's gone back to 500AD vibe Rifts England puts forth.


Well, considering some Chiang-Ku already play druid (the Nog Henge), a less benign one playing wise man or woman, empowering some ogre barbarians with magical tattoos and potions (the elixir of power) seemed to go all right with that vibe for me.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
That disappearance could be just the calm before the storm, as they finally finish years of preparations. Or recouping losses after they tried to mess with the Fomorii and it ended badly for them. :wink:

Might have mixed up Baalgor & Nimro, actually. But i suspect either book might be of use if you feel like playing with Cernun mystics with bands of Gigantes.


Oh it's definitely the calm before the storm, but unless Palladium puts out another State of the World book I don't think we'll ever see what comes of it. I'll probably ignore the missing lizards angle, and have them roaming about waiting for goodly Knights for their Gigantes to smash. :wink:


Well, you can mix it up - have some Cernun roaming about looking for goodly people to smash, plunder or terrorize, but then have some people react with a bit of surprise, some even with comments about how they were more common in the past but seen to have become scarce and the giants even more so (where did they go to....) in the last decade or so. If the PCs will leave at that or eventually ask themselves where might all the lizards have gone too, that's up to them (or whatever clues/hooks you throw in their path). :twisted:


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:55 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
Well, considering some Chiang-Ku already play druid (the Nog Henge), a less benign one playing wise man or woman, empowering some ogre barbarians with magical tattoos and potions (the elixir of power) seemed to go all right with that vibe for me.


I dunno; I thought they overdid the Chiang-Ku in England. Your idea is solid though; I'll have a look see at the tattoos again and see what I think after that. Thing is I wanted them supplementing the Fomorian armies. Would a corrupt Chiang-Ku work with Bres and/or Balor II, or is my geography wrong and the Picts come from someplace other than Scotland? It's too early for my work to brain right now. :D

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:05 am
  

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I know I've poured some effort into Rifts England's geography, but how difficult would it be to use Mutants of Avalon's instead and add Rifts elements to it? It's just so much more fleshed out than what's in World Book 3. I know Mutants of Avalon has a greater population than the Rifts version, but I'd have more to work with. I would still keep the legendary fluff that's been built up in this thread (thanks again!), just spread the kingdoms out some more. It just seems easier to fiddle with MoA than WB3. Thoughts?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:24 am
  

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1970 wrote:
I know I've poured some effort into Rifts England's geography, but how difficult would it be to use Mutants of Avalon's instead and add Rifts elements to it? It's just so much more fleshed out than what's in World Book 3. I know Mutants of Avalon has a greater population than the Rifts version, but I'd have more to work with. I would still keep the legendary fluff that's been built up in this thread (thanks again!), just spread the kingdoms out some more. It just seems easier to fiddle with MoA than WB3. Thoughts?


Must admit that i think it shouldn't be too hard. Main complication if any might be with the subject of which Merlin (or version of Temporal Magic) to use, and dealing with either would be more of a reading and adjudicating than anything.

Ah, and before i forget again, there's one more interesting bit to take from Khefrem's sheet:

Quote:
- Skills: Ancient Egyptian, and ancient versions of most other Middle Eastern languages (all at 98%).


This, would imply to me that, any people who show signs of knowing some of contemporary middle eastern languages might be understood by him (ok, probably not turkic ones, but that's an exception) and be the first mortals to catch his attention in the initial confusing days after his awakening in the Chaos Earth Era, kind of like the tomb thief in the Mummy that ends up being spared and made personal slave by Imhotep after he starts praying in hebrew :lol:, as interpreters, guides to their strange foreign world and potential servant material to groom in general. Who knows, he might even pick one of those as official language for his domain, as a way to further distance the people he takes as minions from the rest of the native population as the decades set in and they start to have descendants....


Quote:
- Psionic Powers: Knows all Sensitive powers (including Object Read/Psychometry, Speed Reading, Total Recall & Telepathy)


That said, Khefrem would not be completely dependent on ssuch mortals to surpass the language and epoch barriers. Telepathy helps cover any communication needs, while the other three should be of great utility in updating his language knowledge & general education as a whole. Actually speaking to people might be more economical and confortable (for the mortal at least) but with a nexus close by Khefrem would have ISP to spare educating himself if he feels the urge to.

Thought those particular bits could add some interesting elements to further flesh out both the Theocracy and him, hope you like it.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:27 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
I know I've poured some effort into Rifts England's geography, but how difficult would it be to use Mutants of Avalon's instead and add Rifts elements to it? It's just so much more fleshed out than what's in World Book 3. I know Mutants of Avalon has a greater population than the Rifts version, but I'd have more to work with. I would still keep the legendary fluff that's been built up in this thread (thanks again!), just spread the kingdoms out some more. It just seems easier to fiddle with MoA than WB3. Thoughts?


Must admit that i think it shouldn't be too hard. Main complication if any might be with the subject of which Merlin (or version of Temporal Magic) to use, and dealing with either would be more of a reading and adjudicating than anything.


I'd like to use the Transdimensional TMNT Time Lord magic, but I'm no good at conversions, and since this is still a Rifts game I'll probably drop the Temporal magic altogether and stick with the Merlin described in this thread; paranoid and a little crazy. There's a series of adventures in Mutants in Avalon that deal with Arthur's conquest of England that I can modify for my needs if I wanted to go that route.

SolCannibal wrote:
Ah, and before i forget again, there's one more interesting bit to take from Khefrem's sheet:

Quote:
- Skills: Ancient Egyptian, and ancient versions of most other Middle Eastern languages (all at 98%).


This, would imply to me that, any people who show signs of knowing some of contemporary middle eastern languages might be understood by him (ok, probably not turkic ones, but that's an exception) and be the first mortals to catch his attention in the initial confusing days after his awakening in the Chaos Earth Era, kind of like the tomb thief in the Mummy that ends up being spared and made personal slave by Imhotep after he starts praying in hebrew :lol:, as interpreters, guides to their strange foreign world and potential servant material to groom in general. Who knows, he might even pick one of those as official language for his domain, as a way to further distance the people he takes as minions from the rest of the native population as the decades set in and they start to have descendants....


Quote:
- Psionic Powers: Knows all Sensitive powers (including Object Read/Psychometry, Speed Reading, Total Recall & Telepathy)


That said, Khefrem would not be completely dependent on ssuch mortals to surpass the language and epoch barriers. Telepathy helps cover any communication needs, while the other three should be of great utility in updating his language knowledge & general education as a whole. Actually speaking to people might be more economical and confortable (for the mortal at least) but with a nexus close by Khefrem would have ISP to spare educating himself if he feels the urge to.

Thought those particular bits could add some interesting elements to further flesh out both the Theocracy and him, hope you like it.


It doesn't seem like Telepathy works like that, which is unfortunate. I could argue that thoughts are like images, but I don't think it works like that either, and he would only be able to establish two-way communication with another psychic with Telepathy. It looks like he would still need someone to teach him the language. Of course, this is all conjecture: he's had over 100 years to learn English, Euro, or both (plus more). I could always cheat my way out and say the Splugorthian envoys sent for a Rulian Translator to teach him. Your idea to make his Theocracy more isolated by only teaching his subjects to speak a dead language is pretty cool and something I'll be using.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:36 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
Well, Conversion Book comments on Jotann giants being able to get the TW OCC with lower requirements, due to their masterful crafting skills and such. Considering Kobolds from PF are described as being pretty much their equals when it comes to superb crafting skills, i imagine they could be good at TW in Rifts Earth too. Does that help?


As an aside, there's no stats for Kobolds in my copy of Conversion Book One. I don't have the Revised Edition; are they in there?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:04 am
  

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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
I know I've poured some effort into Rifts England's geography, but how difficult would it be to use Mutants of Avalon's instead and add Rifts elements to it? It's just so much more fleshed out than what's in World Book 3. I know Mutants of Avalon has a greater population than the Rifts version, but I'd have more to work with. I would still keep the legendary fluff that's been built up in this thread (thanks again!), just spread the kingdoms out some more. It just seems easier to fiddle with MoA than WB3. Thoughts?


Must admit that i think it shouldn't be too hard. Main complication if any might be with the subject of which Merlin (or version of Temporal Magic) to use, and dealing with either would be more of a reading and adjudicating than anything.


I'd like to use the Transdimensional TMNT Time Lord magic, but I'm no good at conversions, and since this is still a Rifts game I'll probably drop the Temporal magic altogether and stick with the Merlin described in this thread; paranoid and a little crazy. There's a series of adventures in Mutants in Avalon that deal with Arthur's conquest of England that I can modify for my needs if I wanted to go that route.


Should work alright too. I suspect the Transdimensional TMNT Time Lord magic, coming from a SDC setting, might not be terrible to port over, but time magic can be something of a rolling snowball of crazy no matter the system, so i can also understand the reticence all too well. The mutant animals numbers might call for some handwaving, but no terribly big deal either way i guess.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Ah, and before i forget again, there's one more interesting bit to take from Khefrem's sheet:

Quote:
- Skills: Ancient Egyptian, and ancient versions of most other Middle Eastern languages (all at 98%).


This, would imply to me that, any people who show signs of knowing some of contemporary middle eastern languages might be understood by him (ok, probably not turkic ones, but that's an exception) and be the first mortals to catch his attention in the initial confusing days after his awakening in the Chaos Earth Era, kind of like the tomb thief in the Mummy that ends up being spared and made personal slave by Imhotep after he starts praying in hebrew :lol:, as interpreters, guides to their strange foreign world and potential servant material to groom in general. Who knows, he might even pick one of those as official language for his domain, as a way to further distance the people he takes as minions from the rest of the native population as the decades set in and they start to have descendants....


Quote:
- Psionic Powers: Knows all Sensitive powers (including Object Read/Psychometry, Speed Reading, Total Recall & Telepathy)


That said, Khefrem would not be completely dependent on ssuch mortals to surpass the language and epoch barriers. Telepathy helps cover any communication needs, while the other three should be of great utility in updating his language knowledge & general education as a whole. Actually speaking to people might be more economical and confortable (for the mortal at least) but with a nexus close by Khefrem would have ISP to spare educating himself if he feels the urge to.

Thought those particular bits could add some interesting elements to further flesh out both the Theocracy and him, hope you like it.


It doesn't seem like Telepathy works like that, which is unfortunate. I could argue that thoughts are like images, but I don't think it works like that either, and he would only be able to establish two-way communication with another psychic with Telepathy. It looks like he would still need someone to teach him the language. Of course, this is all conjecture: he's had over 100 years to learn English, Euro, or both (plus more). I could always cheat my way out and say the Splugorthian envoys sent for a Rulian Translator to teach him. Your idea to make his Theocracy more isolated by only teaching his subjects to speak a dead language is pretty cool and something I'll be using.


Yeah, for me allowing two-way telepathic communication based on the principle that if you can read a target's thoughts for minutes, you'll be able to also read a person's reactions/answers to your telepathic transmissions, a view that feels so intuitive to me i sometimes forget that technically it still counts a house ruling. :oops:

I don't think Khefrem would have any problems at all with learning post-apocalyptic languages, but went with some directions he might take intuitively/on the sspur of moment during the early days/years of his return and rule. They don't even have to be truly isolated as people can certainly find ways to preserve the english or learn other languages, but their speaking among themselves mostly in such middle eastern languages, first in arabic, hebrew, but later on using them as a bedrock to teach them some form of ancient egyptian as official language, could certainly be exploited by him as a way to turn his minions "advantage" (the capacity to communicate with the monster/master) around them, into a psychological and cultural wedge between their descendants and the people who never surrendered themselves to him.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Well, Conversion Book comments on Jotann giants being able to get the TW OCC with lower requirements, due to their masterful crafting skills and such. Considering Kobolds from PF are described as being pretty much their equals when it comes to superb crafting skills, i imagine they could be good at TW in Rifts Earth too. Does that help?


As an aside, there's no stats for Kobolds in my copy of Conversion Book One. I don't have the Revised Edition; are they in there?


No idea. As there's nothing on Kobolds in the Conversion Book, i'm pretty sure the PF main book is from where i got the reference matching their crafting skills with the Jotans' - from what i extrapolated the idea of Kobolds communities becoming TW-skilled in Rifts Earth (much like Jotans are implied to do in the Conversion Book).


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:28 am
  

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My first idea for my Mutants of Avalon/Rifts England was for the SAECSN and their leader, St. Jean-Marie, a powerful Mind Melter. This militant cult, renamed l'Alliance Ardente (The Fire Covenant), are French expatriots. They recently lost a war and have had to flee the country to the West, to England. After some reconnaissance they landed in the sparsely populated Wastelands, hoping to use the underground tunnel connecting the two nations and then using their superior arms to quickly establish a base and then fan out when ready.

Unfortunately, the Wasteland wasn't as unoccupied as previously thought. The Wasteland, also known as the Necropolis or the Theocracy of Taut is ruled by the ancient mummy Kefrem and his undead hordes. Taken aback by the savagery of the risen dead, they cut their losses and fled further west toward what is now known as the West Country. They didn't make it far, however. Finally retreating to the border of the two nations, l'Alliance Ardente found a good place to hide and gather their wits.

Not long after, a strangely armored woman broke into their camp and, after the surprise wore off, diplomatic relations started to develop. This woman's name was Lachesis, and she represented the island nation of Atlantis. She and her masters heard of their plight from Kefrem's war prisoners and had decided to offer some assistance toward these poor refugees. She was to remain with l'Alliance Ardente as an advisor and envoy for an alliance between the two nations. As an act of good will, Lachesis helped engineer the assassination of the King of the West Country, in so doing leaving the West Country rudderless while l'Alliance Ardente could establish a more permanent settlement on the Kingdom's periphery. So far things have been going swimmingly.

This assistance is, of course, not without cost. The Slugorthians want to destabilize England towards their own ends. This is a secret endeavor; their allies in the Theocracy of Taut are unaware of this alliance and they would like to keep it that way. England is full of Ley Lines and Ley Line Nexuses, which they want to control as many as possible. So far Kefrem's Necropolis has been a convenient location to start from, but they think the ancient doesn't think large enough, and are focusing their efforts in other directions. Even if this alliance doesn't pan out, England is left damaged, slaves are rounded up by the thousands, and everybody who matters comes out aces.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:11 pm
  

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1970 wrote:
My first idea for my Mutants of Avalon/Rifts England was for the SAECSN and their leader, St. Jean-Marie, a powerful Mind Melter. This militant cult, renamed l'Alliance Ardente (The Fire Covenant), are French expatriots. They recently lost a war and have had to flee the country to the West, to England. After some reconnaissance they landed in the sparsely populated Wastelands, hoping to use the underground tunnel connecting the two nations and then using their superior arms to quickly establish a base and then fan out when ready.


Who are they fleeing from, Gargoyles, Blood Druids or some other less defined power? could add something to the whole story, though i'll be the first to admit it's not exactly essential - it is Rifts Earth we are talking about. They could even be fleeing from another post-apoc France :wink: and have crossed into it unknowingly depending on circunstances for all we (don't) know.

1970 wrote:
Unfortunately, the Wasteland wasn't as unoccupied as previously thought. The Wasteland, also known as the Necropolis or the Theocracy of Taut is ruled by the ancient mummy Kefrem and his undead hordes. Taken aback by the savagery of the risen dead, they cut their losses and fled further west toward what is now known as the West Country. They didn't make it far, however. Finally retreating to the border of the two nations, l'Alliance Ardente found a good place to hide and gather their wits.

Not long after, a strangely armored woman broke into their camp and, after the surprise wore off, diplomatic relations started to develop. This woman's name was Lachesis, and she represented the island nation of Atlantis. She and her masters heard of their plight from Kefrem's war prisoners and had decided to offer some assistance toward these poor refugees. She was to remain with l'Alliance Ardente as an advisor and envoy for an alliance between the two nations. As an act of good will, Lachesis helped engineer the assassination of the King of the West Country, in so doing leaving the West Country rudderless while l'Alliance Ardente could establish a more permanent settlement on the Kingdom's periphery. So far things have been going swimmingly.

This assistance is, of course, not without cost. The Splugorthians want to destabilize England towards their own ends. This is a secret endeavor; their allies in the Theocracy of Taut are unaware of this alliance and they would like to keep it that way. England is full of Ley Lines and Ley Line Nexuses, which they want to control as many as possible. So far Kefrem's Necropolis has been a convenient location to start from, but they think the ancient doesn't think large enough, and are focusing their efforts in other directions. Even if this alliance doesn't pan out, England is left damaged, slaves are rounded up by the thousands, and everybody who matters comes out aces.


Overall the impression i get of l'Alliance Ardente is that the organization is somewhat uninformed of the land and groups around it. If we are talking of set up events in the past, sometime between the Chaos Earth and the "PA Calendar era" it's alright. In "present times" (100 PA onwards), maybe a little peculiar, specially in the case of Atlantis, but possible for a somewhat insular group immersed in its own agendas & ideas.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:08 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
Who are they fleeing from, Gargoyles, Blood Druids or some other less defined power? could add something to the whole story, though i'll be the first to admit it's not exactly essential - it is Rifts Earth we are talking about. They could even be fleeing from another post-apoc France :wink: and have crossed into it unknowingly depending on circunstances for all we (don't) know.


In my notes I had them running from Gargoyles. Don't know why I left that out, except I don't have my Triax 2 or Aftermath books with me and didn't know where the Gargoyle Empire split. Of course, that may not have happened at all, since there's no New Camelot (yet) to aid the NGR into routing them. I don't even know if Merlin's freed himself from whatever trap the Lady of the Lake put him in yet. I'd kind of like the characters be there when he's released or even be the ones who free him.

SolCannibal wrote:
Overall the impression i get of l'Alliance Ardente is that the organization is somewhat uninformed of the land and groups around it. If we are talking of set up events in the past, sometime between the Chaos Earth and the "PA Calendar era" it's alright. In "present times" (100 PA onwards), maybe a little peculiar, specially in the case of Atlantis, but possible for a somewhat insular group immersed in its own agendas & ideas.


Yeah, I probably wrote them as too ignorant of the world around them. I don't know what the extent of the Splugorth's travels into France are, but I'm sure someone heard something or lost someone to a Slaver and its Warrior Women. My bad :oops:

Still, Lachesis' offer could be from an "interested party" and leave it at that. St. Jean-Marie doesn't have a high opinion of women and probably thinks he can outsmart her if he has to. She doesn't know he's a Mind Melter, but he doesn't know she's a Sunaj Assassin! Someone's going to get screwed, and I'm pretty sure that without some serious luck it'll be l'Alliance Ardente.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:14 pm
  

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Does anybody have any ideas of what kind of arms and armor France would use? Would they have their own or would they have limited access to Triax equipment through the Black Market?

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:48 pm
  

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1970 wrote:
Does anybody have any ideas of what kind of arms and armor France would use? Would they have their own or would they have limited access to Triax equipment through the Black Market?


Well, having their own arms and armor would be a matter buying from some group (black market, minor kingdoms, etc) or scavenging and repairing stuff obtained from ruins i guess. Me, i like the stuff in the RMB (plastic bubble, urban warrior, etc) as the basis for "generic local manufactures", that might either be knock-offs with serial numbers filled off or have some minor difference in things like weight, cost & etc.

One major NPC in my games, Cyprian Dunscon, a son of the leader of the Federation of Magic, showed up as a major ally during the Tolkeen War, commanding what was basically the TW-knockoff of a CS Brigade with some magic theming/disguise [RMB gear with regen or made up D-bee races covering the same niches as certain units]

Later on one of the PCs - a NGR deserter - would reccognize the "Brigade of Enlightnement" as the Ironcoats, the elite forces of the Reaver Lords of Lyonesse and "prince Dunscon" as the infamous pirate-king and sorcerer better known Cyprian Ironcoat, Cyprian Darkmantle or Cyprian Redcloak, the Drowner of Paris, the man who almost conquered Brettagne & Normandy or the One Year King. :wink:


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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:59 pm
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
Does anybody have any ideas of what kind of arms and armor France would use? Would they have their own or would they have limited access to Triax equipment through the Black Market?


Well, having their own arms and armor would be a matter buying from some group (black market, minor kingdoms, etc) or scavenging and repairing stuff obtained from ruins i guess. Me, i like the stuff in the RMB (plastic bubble, urban warrior, etc) as the basis for "generic local manufactures", that might either be knock-offs with serial numbers filled off or have some minor difference in things like weight, cost & etc.


That's a really good idea. Thanks!

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Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:34 pm
  

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Unlike the Rifts version of England, the faeries don't have a nation or even large holdings that can be defined. They exist between the spaces left by the cities. They hold courts and take titles like proper Lords and Ladies, but there's something sinister behind their charade. Of these, three are the best known and most feared. Perhaps they even exist.

The Lady of Wind and Silence is rumored to have a collection of tongues representing every lie ever told in the British Isles. Endlessly formal, her affairs are stifling and boring until someone breaks the unknown rules of etiquette. Then her banquets turn into courtrooms with witnesses and lawyers and a jury of peers. The Lady acts as an impassive judge until she tires of it, then passes judgement, assuming the jury hasn't already. Her standards of justice are as random as her rules of etiquette, and no one seeks her council if they're smart.

The Prince of Flowers fancies himself an artist. His galas are spectacular affairs but his talents are meager. He's not a bad artist really, simply uninspired. Deep inside he knows that he's a hack, but wants the praise that comes with greatness. Too much gushing, on the other hand, reminds him of how talentless he really is, which brings forth his wrath. The problem is that his threshold for compliments isn't a set variable. Some days you could compliment him endlessly and he'll beam with pride for a week. Other days you could smile at the wrong piece and be challenged to a duel to the death.

The Queen of the Obsidian Mirror is perhaps the most approachable of the Three. All she asks is for someone to tell her something she doesn't know. Her gatherings are filled with whispers and subterfuge and everyone wears a mask. If your identity is found out the Queen steals it for her own, at least for a time. She never guesses though; the fun is having her guests figure it out for themselves. Of course, she could be anyone, so who knows? Whether or not the Obsidian Mirror is real is a matter of conjecture.

All three of these Fae Lords and their entourages can be encountered anywhere in the British Isles where civilization is lacking. Stumbling onto one of their Courts is the same as being invited, so those traveling between villages tend to avoid the sounds of revelry where they shouldn't be. You could ask a favor of them, and they might grant it, but the risk is rarely worth the reward. It doesn't stop some people from trying though.

Oh yeah, and they absolutely hate each other. Mentioning one's name in the presence of another is a good way to have yourself imaginatively killed, forced into some horrible durance, or simply stolen away for some other unearthly purpose.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:21 am
  

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I would say it might be interesting to expand on their individual imagery - differences on behaviour or appearance of their respective courts that might help with their identification and planning on informed players part.

For example, i imagine the affairs of the Lady of the Wind with its focus in catching of lies, due procedure and adjudication might sound less like revelry and more like a procession of beings, high or low, fae, mortal or other, seeking a court of justice for a hearing or redress, with bailiffs to organize a line of supplicants and so on, with the power to mete punishments or compensation, by breaking, altering or transfering curses & blessings, being part of her purview.

Speaking of the Queen's affairs, maybe noise and revelry are precceded by wandering butterfly-masks, that serve both as a way to announce her presence and much needed finery for any trespassers/guests benefit. Those present thrive in gossip of all kinds or manner, so that even if what you bring is of no value to the queen, it might be novel and of interest to another between courtiers, revelers and last moment guests. The worth of information depends on finding who might want or need it.

And what kind of artist would the Prince be, singer, dancer, poet, player of one or more instruments, painter, sculptor or some combination of these? Are his duels matches of artistic skill (dance until you drop), combat or a mix of both, as he strikes offenders with a singing rapier, harp-bow's deadly song-arrows or something else altogether?

Also, i would suggest you work a bit on baiting or "why would anyone in their right mind (or not) even consider risking getting anywhere close to these people?" - there's danger and risk, but the promise of a potential reward (even if it is the elimination of a major threat for a time) is ann essential part to adventuring. What do they gain or learn from risking their lives in interacting with these beings? Also, give the risks a face or form, even if it's just a sample of many options, so that adventurers may decide for themselves if it's worth or not.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 am
  

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SolCannibal wrote:
I would say it might be interesting to expand on their individual imagery - differences on behaviour or appearance of their respective courts that might help with their identification and planning on informed players part.

For example, i imagine the affairs of the Lady of the Wind with its focus in catching of lies, due procedure and adjudication might sound less like revelry and more like a procession of beings, high or low, fae, mortal or other, seeking a court of justice for a hearing or redress, with bailiffs to organize a line of supplicants and so on, with the power to mete punishments or compensation, by breaking, altering or transfering curses & blessings, being part of her purview.

Speaking of the Queen's affairs, maybe noise and revelry are precceded by wandering butterfly-masks, that serve both as a way to announce her presence and much needed finery for any trespassers/guests benefit. Those present thrive in gossip of all kinds or manner, so that even if what you bring is of no value to the queen, it might be novel and of interest to another between courtiers, revelers and last moment guests. The worth of information depends on finding who might want or need it.

And what kind of artist would the Prince be, singer, dancer, poet, player of one or more instruments, painter, sculptor or some combination of these? Are his duels matches of artistic skill (dance until you drop), combat or a mix of both, as he strikes offenders with a singing rapier, harp-bow's deadly song-arrows or something else altogether?


The Lady's affairs, as I imagined them, were like society dinners. Strict codes of etiquette and decorum. They're very formal affairs with subdued music, ritualized dancing, and so on. The Lady herself is compulsive about these rules, and cannot abide anyone breaking them, kind of like an Emily Post on meth. If she were to find a court, she'd definitely invite herself to participate, either as a prosecuting or defending lawyer, a judge, or an impassive observer. I don't know if she'd interfere, as these proceedings have their own formalities, but if she felt one side were cheating she may hold her own court directly after the mortals hold judgment. For me, she's the most difficult to write and pin down.

I like the idea of butterfly masks fluttering about the Queen's parties, providing cover for their identities. Anything is good for the Queen to know; of course, the importance of the information determines the reward. The courtiers try to wheedle secrets and gossip so they can relate it to the Queen for their own benefit and perhaps a raise in social standing, should there be such a thing.Finding out who to tell your tales to is definitely a good measure of what's going on, though you may want to get something for it before you spill the beans. Generosity is appreciated but not necessarily rewarded.

When I wrote up the Prince I imagined himself to be a painter, but really with a lifespan incomprehensible to mortal beings he may have technically mastered them all. He simply has no vision or imagination. His duels are definitely combat related; he's enraged at being called out on his lack of that special something that makes art come alive. He may try to make an art out of killing his critics, but he'd probably be no good at that either.

SolCannibal wrote:
Also, i would suggest you work a bit on baiting or "why would anyone in their right mind (or not) even consider risking getting anywhere close to these people?" - there's danger and risk, but the promise of a potential reward (even if it is the elimination of a major threat for a time) is ann essential part to adventuring. What do they gain or learn from risking their lives in interacting with these beings? Also, give the risks a face or form, even if it's just a sample of many options, so that adventurers may decide for themselves if it's worth or not.


First and foremost, these are legends. They're terrifying if they exist, and parents scare their children into not wandering too far from home, just in case they run into one of them. And yes, no one in their right mind would bother one of these mad fae, but if they did and survived the rewards could be many things. Perhaps the Queen of the Obsidian Mirror could trade information that's important to the party. You could seek redress from the Lady of Wind and Silence and hope your enemy could be found guilty in absentia and be punished accordingly. The Prince, well, I don't know what the Prince could give other than...

Each of these Fae Lords can give power to people similar to the Gifts of Witchery. They would have to be incredibly impressed to grant the Gift of Union, but the Gift of Power and the Gift of Magic would not be out of their power to grant. It's possible that a Shifter could get one to be a Patron if they play their cards right. They're also beings of magic, and could probably teach any invocation or ritual magic from the spell lists in the Book of Magic and perhaps others. They've picked up a lot of skills, and could teach one or more to an interested party. There may be other things I haven't thought of yet.

Of course, only the desperate seek them out and the most common way to encounter them is by accident, and the risks are rarely worth the reward, but they're there should someone want to try their luck. That's what Ive got so far. If I think of more about them I'll certainly post them.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:58 am
  

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It just occurred to me that the Prince of Flowers could make a person into a personal work of art, giving them any of the Physical Extraordinary Attribute powers from Heroes Unlimited (or Skraypers, should they be in there; I haven't checked).

ETA: Skraypres has them.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:39 am
  

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Another adventure prompt the Lady, the Prince, and the Queen could give are quests tailored to their interests. The Lady may send an adventurer to bring a subject to justice or to stand trial. The Prince could want the character to bring a noted art critic to him or to acquire rare materials for paints, stone or clay for sculpting, and so on. The Queen could want someone to act as a spy on someone important (or not important, who knows what secrets she's interested in today?). Just some thoughts.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:45 am
  

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1970 wrote:
The Lady's affairs, as I imagined them, were like society dinners. Strict codes of etiquette and decorum. They're very formal affairs with subdued music, ritualized dancing, and so on. The Lady herself is compulsive about these rules, and cannot abide anyone breaking them, kind of like an Emily Post on meth. If she were to find a court, she'd definitely invite herself to participate, either as a prosecuting or defending lawyer, a judge, or an impassive observer. I don't know if she'd interfere, as these proceedings have their own formalities, but if she felt one side were cheating she may hold her own court directly after the mortals hold judgment. For me, she's the most difficult to write and pin down.


Guess the "tongues of liars" part lead my mind in directions unlike what you intended, what can be interesting on itself. "The judge" could either be an aditional layer of hers or an altogether different figure and a fae lord of lady on its own, if one feels like playing this angle too.

Meanwhile, an upholder of etiquette makes for a character quite different of what i previously described - instead of a face of regal authority, we have a "lady most fair" obssessed with rules as a way to establish one's class, status and affiliation, "putting all in their proper places", either humiliating the "new rich" or "vulgar" that strive to a greatness they do not (in her eyes) they do not manifest in their acts, or elevating those who demonstrate proper understanding of the formalities required in each occasion. Staying in her presence is a gamble of ever growing danger - she's the ultimate reference of the codes, so the more you stand in her presence, greater the chance of that one deadly unknown formality that leads into a misshap for its ignorance happening. The safest thing one may do as a guest is finding a way to excuse oneself of the party without giving offense, as soon as possible.

Her rewards and chastisements could involve status - elevating mortals by giving them fae qualities, changing a faerie's type, turning fae into mortals. What counts as reward or punishment for her might not be the same for the target (would you want to be a bogie or toadstool?) - and proper behaviour in some way (getting rewrds or magic from repating some "proper' behavior, being cursed to belch, fart or doing some thing that somehow offended the lady or its absolute - and equally distracting - opposite, etc).

1970 wrote:
I like the idea of butterfly masks fluttering about the Queen's parties, providing cover for their identities. Anything is good for the Queen to know; of course, the importance of the information determines the reward. The courtiers try to wheedle secrets and gossip so they can relate it to the Queen for their own benefit and perhaps a raise in social standing, should there be such a thing. Finding out who to tell your tales to is definitely a good measure of what's going on, though you may want to get something for it before you spill the beans. Generosity is appreciated but not necessarily rewarded.


Yeah, while i did not outright say it, there's something of an element of "poaching", of stealing the new juicy bit (and consequently rewards) from others before they can deliver it themselves, amidst all the gossiping and information brokering.

One thing that initially crossed my mind was the Queen having some sort of omniscience/seer-like quality (if she did not already know most things, getting rewards would be most easy), but gicing it some more thought i would say that's not quite the point. Knowledge is a facade, another masquerade of sorts might be said. The true game is in the covering of identity, the things one do with a disguise and the game of finding another's true face, by leading one to unwittingly reveal oneself, making its face fair game for collection in the process, another mask to assume and play new roles under. Just some thoughts and flights of fancy.

Either knowledge (mundane, magical or both) or identity/masks (that could involve not only appearance but some memories/knowledge/skills) could fit her rewards and punishments, i guess.

1970 wrote:
When I wrote up the Prince I imagined himself to be a painter, but really with a lifespan incomprehensible to mortal beings he may have technically mastered them all. He simply has no vision or imagination. His duels are definitely combat related; he's enraged at being called out on his lack of that special something that makes art come alive. He may try to make an art out of killing his critics, but he'd probably be no good at that either.


All a matter of interests, what he might think worth of pursuing for the sake of showing an artistry he does not (on his own eyes) truly possess. He might from time to time seek teachers to show him new art forms that might help him ro finaly find his secret talent, or muses to properly inspire him with creativity and imagination.... though stalk might be the more appropriate word for those possibly longer staying guests (kidnapping victims).

Obviously, as only proper of a lord, he takes care to arrange things so the "guest" can leave with him with business left unattended - by leaving
one of his servants as a doppelganger to properly deal with them for as long as the "extended visit" to the prince goes. :twisted:

As an aside the whole "i'm a poseur, a hack, a fake" insecurity/self-disgust rigmarole of his got a funny thought in my mind. what if the prince was once not a true fae, but a cobbler goblin, one of the rare throwbacks to goblins faerie roots, that became what he is through being elevated by the Lady and then remaking his identity through the Queen's masquerade, to not only "erase" his past, but raise himself even further, becoming their equal and eventual master of his own court and ball?

They hate him for an impostor but can no more find the truth - and blame each other (but not themselves) for his existence and current status as a rival, the root of the toxic conflict between the tree and their followers. Just an idea.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Also, i would suggest you work a bit on baiting or "why would anyone in their right mind (or not) even consider risking getting anywhere close to these people?" - there's danger and risk, but the promise of a potential reward (even if it is the elimination of a major threat for a time) is ann essential part to adventuring. What do they gain or learn from risking their lives in interacting with these beings? Also, give the risks a face or form, even if it's just a sample of many options, so that adventurers may decide for themselves if it's worth or not.


First and foremost, these are legends. They're terrifying if they exist, and parents scare their children into not wandering too far from home, just in case they run into one of them. And yes, no one in their right mind would bother one of these mad fae, but if they did and survived the rewards could be many things. Perhaps the Queen of the Obsidian Mirror could trade information that's important to the party. You could seek redress from the Lady of Wind and Silence and hope your enemy could be found guilty in absentia and be punished accordingly. The Prince, well, I don't know what the Prince could give other than...


Peculiar works of art in the vein of the Portrait of Dorian Gray, haunting songs with notes of siren and/or banshee that lead to death-challenging passion or suicidal gloom or a number of other arcane, idiosyncratic treasures. The "making people in works of art" angle you mentioned might be going a bit out of the core idea for the sake of coming up with rewards, imho.

1970 wrote:
Each of these Fae Lords can give power to people similar to the Gifts of Witchery. They would have to be incredibly impressed to grant the Gift of Union, but the Gift of Power and the Gift of Magic would not be out of their power to grant. It's possible that a Shifter could get one to be a Patron if they play their cards right. They're also beings of magic, and could probably teach any invocation or ritual magic from the spell lists in the Book of Magic and perhaps others. They've picked up a lot of skills, and could teach one or more to an interested party. There may be other things I haven't thought of yet.


Witchery i'm not much of a fan of as an option, in this case it can fall back into making them more similar to each other (and every other supernatural intelligence) instead of more unique, but could work with some tweaking. I would suggest going back to the pages on faerie in the Conversion Book for gifts, be it physical objects to reward or as part of a pact/pledge/vow, to extrapolate and upgrade from. Some of my previous suggestions on rewards & punishments for each of them might be of use for that too.

1970 wrote:
Another adventure prompt the Lady, the Prince, and the Queen could give are quests tailored to their interests. The Lady may send an adventurer to bring a subject to justice or to stand trial. The Prince could want the character to bring a noted art critic to him or to acquire rare materials for paints, stone or clay for sculpting, and so on. The Queen could want someone to act as a spy on someone important (or not important, who knows what secrets she's interested in today?). Just some thoughts.


All quite valid hooks i would say.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:55 pm
  

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Speaking of homebrewing and at the same time "sticking to the basics", a few years ago while re-watching Sleeping Beauty with my niece it got my attention that in parts of the animation Maleficent is called "evil/dark fairy", what together with her transformation in the final confrontation got me suddenly thinking "what if the Dark Fairy from Sourcebook 1 were the hatchling of something like Maleficent..."

And a few hours later was merrily playing with slapping the "adult Night Stalker" dragon upgrades in a Dark Fairy, along with some tweaks taken from the faerie section of the Conversion Book to make my Malefices. :D


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:51 am
  

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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
Meanwhile, an upholder of etiquette makes for a character quite different of what i previously described - instead of a face of regal authority, we have a "lady most fair" obssessed with rules as a way to establish one's class, status and affiliation, "putting all in their proper places", either humiliating the "new rich" or "vulgar" that strive to a greatness they do not (in her eyes) they do not manifest in their acts, or elevating those who demonstrate proper understanding of the formalities required in each occasion. Staying in her presence is a gamble of ever growing danger - she's the ultimate reference of the codes, so the more you stand in her presence, greater the chance of that one deadly unknown formality that leads into a misshap for its ignorance happening. The safest thing one may do as a guest is finding a way to excuse oneself of the party without giving offense, as soon as possible.


It kind of like the movie Wargames, the best move is to not play at all.

Rewarding good behavior is a great idea, as much as punishing bad behavior, especially if both seem arbitrary to anyone not in the know, which most of the time is the only the Lady herself.

SolCannibal wrote:
One thing that initially crossed my mind was the Queen having some sort of omniscience/seer-like quality (if she did not already know most things, getting rewards would be most easy), but gicing it some more thought i would say that's not quite the point. Knowledge is a facade, another masquerade of sorts might be said. The true game is in the covering of identity, the things one do with a disguise and the game of finding another's true face, by leading one to unwittingly reveal oneself, making its face fair game for collection in the process, another mask to assume and play new roles under. Just some thoughts and flights of fancy.

Either knowledge (mundane, magical or both) or identity/masks (that could involve not only appearance but some memories/knowledge/skills) could fit her rewards and punishments, i guess.


If identities are what the Queen is really after, she could wear them like costumes, meaning that no one knows who's been unmasked and who's the Queen. I do like the trade of secrets, and was thinking of giving her some sort of clairvoyance so she knows some things already, but maybe she doesn't know the details. It's like the Demon Cat from Adventure Time, who has approximate knowledge of everything.

SolCannibal wrote:
All a matter of interests, what he might think worth of pursuing for the sake of showing an artistry he does not (on his own eyes) truly possess. He might from time to time seek teachers to show him new art forms that might help him ro finaly find his secret talent, or muses to properly inspire him with creativity and imagination.... though stalk might be the more appropriate word for those possibly longer staying guests (kidnapping victims).

Obviously, as only proper of a lord, he takes care to arrange things so the "guest" can leave with him with business left unattended - by leaving
one of his servants as a doppelganger to properly deal with them for as long as the "extended visit" to the prince goes. :twisted:

As an aside the whole "i'm a poseur, a hack, a fake" insecurity/self-disgust rigmarole of his got a funny thought in my mind. what if the prince was once not a true fae, but a cobbler goblin, one of the rare throwbacks to goblins faerie roots, that became what he is through being elevated by the Lady and then remaking his identity through the Queen's masquerade, to not only "erase" his past, but raise himself even further, becoming their equal and eventual master of his own court and ball?

They hate him for an impostor but can no more find the truth - and blame each other (but not themselves) for his existence and current status as a rival, the root of the toxic conflict between the tree and their followers. Just an idea.


Having imposters take his place while he does his work is pretty cool. Finding subjects by stalking them is a neat idea too. Having him be a lesser faerie who was elevated and had his identity stolen is a really great idea, which could account for his great skill but lack of imagination.

SolCannibal wrote:
Speaking of homebrewing and at the same time "sticking to the basics", a few years ago while re-watching Sleeping Beauty with my niece it got my attention that in parts of the animation Maleficent is called "evil/dark fairy", what together with her transformation in the final confrontation got me suddenly thinking "what if the Dark Fairy from Sourcebook 1 were the hatchling of something like Maleficent..."

And a few hours later was merrily playing with slapping the "adult Night Stalker" dragon upgrades in a Dark Fairy, along with some tweaks taken from the faerie section of the Conversion Book to make my Malefices.


An entire race of Faerie Dragons? That's not scary at all. :twisted:

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:27 am
  

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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
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1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Meanwhile, an upholder of etiquette makes for a character quite different of what i previously described - instead of a face of regal authority, we have a "lady most fair" obssessed with rules as a way to establish one's class, status and affiliation, "putting all in their proper places", either humiliating the "new rich" or "vulgar" that strive to a greatness they do not (in her eyes) they do not manifest in their acts, or elevating those who demonstrate proper understanding of the formalities required in each occasion. Staying in her presence is a gamble of ever growing danger - she's the ultimate reference of the codes, so the more you stand in her presence, greater the chance of that one deadly unknown formality that leads into a misshap for its ignorance happening. The safest thing one may do as a guest is finding a way to excuse oneself of the party without giving offense, as soon as possible.


It kind of like the movie Wargames, the best move is to not play at all.

Rewarding good behavior is a great idea, as much as punishing bad behavior, especially if both seem arbitrary to anyone not in the know, which most of the time is the only the Lady herself.


Yes, that's pretty much the spirit i got when i started to think on that direction.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
One thing that initially crossed my mind was the Queen having some sort of omniscience/seer-like quality (if she did not already know most things, getting rewards would be most easy), but gicing it some more thought i would say that's not quite the point. Knowledge is a facade, another masquerade of sorts might be said. The true game is in the covering of identity, the things one do with a disguise and the game of finding another's true face, by leading one to unwittingly reveal oneself, making its face fair game for collection in the process, another mask to assume and play new roles under. Just some thoughts and flights of fancy.

Either knowledge (mundane, magical or both) or identity/masks (that could involve not only appearance but some memories/knowledge/skills) could fit her rewards and punishments, i guess.


If identities are what the Queen is really after, she could wear them like costumes, meaning that no one knows who's been unmasked and who's the Queen. I do like the trade of secrets, and was thinking of giving her some sort of clairvoyance so she knows some things already, but maybe she doesn't know the details. It's like the Demon Cat from Adventure Time, who has approximate knowledge of everything.


Truth be told, i had this impression that one never knows what's the Queen's true appearance and whaat's the mask of a face stolen from your initial description of her.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
All a matter of interests, what he might think worth of pursuing for the sake of showing an artistry he does not (on his own eyes) truly possess. He might from time to time seek teachers to show him new art forms that might help him ro finaly find his secret talent, or muses to properly inspire him with creativity and imagination.... though stalk might be the more appropriate word for those possibly longer staying guests (kidnapping victims).

Obviously, as only proper of a lord, he takes care to arrange things so the "guest" can leave with him with business left unattended - by leaving
one of his servants as a doppelganger to properly deal with them for as long as the "extended visit" to the prince goes. :twisted:

As an aside the whole "i'm a poseur, a hack, a fake" insecurity/self-disgust rigmarole of his got a funny thought in my mind. what if the prince was once not a true fae, but a cobbler goblin, one of the rare throwbacks to goblins faerie roots, that became what he is through being elevated by the Lady and then remaking his identity through the Queen's masquerade, to not only "erase" his past, but raise himself even further, becoming their equal and eventual master of his own court and ball?

They hate him for an impostor but can no more find the truth - and blame each other (but not themselves) for his existence and current status as a rival, the root of the toxic conflict between the tree and their followers. Just an idea.


Having imposters take his place while he does his work is pretty cool. Finding subjects by stalking them is a neat idea too. Having him be a lesser faerie who was elevated and had his identity stolen is a really great idea, which could account for his great skill but lack of imagination.


About the doppelgangers, my idea wasn't so much them passing for the prince, but that he would "free" his guests from whatever obligations, duties and affairs those people might have in the mortal world, by having the doppelgangers assuming those for them, as substitutes, pretty much a kiddnapping covered up with a lookalike (whose actual understanding or care for the mortals real interests might be depend on capacities, preparation or luck, might be said).

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Speaking of homebrewing and at the same time "sticking to the basics", a few years ago while re-watching Sleeping Beauty with my niece it got my attention that in parts of the animation Maleficent is called "evil/dark fairy", what together with her transformation in the final confrontation got me suddenly thinking "what if the Dark Fairy from Sourcebook 1 were the hatchling of something like Maleficent..."

And a few hours later was merrily playing with slapping the "adult Night Stalker" dragon upgrades in a Dark Fairy, along with some tweaks taken from the faerie section of the Conversion Book to make my Malefices.


An entire race of Faerie Dragons? That's not scary at all. :twisted:


Well, it's not like dragons are the kind of beings that will start a city or religion of their own, right? :twisted:


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:26 pm
  

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Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
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Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
About the doppelgangers, my idea wasn't so much them passing for the prince, but that he would "free" his guests from whatever obligations, duties and affairs those people might have in the mortal world, by having the doppelgangers assuming those for them, as substitutes, pretty much a kiddnapping covered up with a lookalike (whose actual understanding or care for the mortals real interests might be depend on capacities, preparation or luck, might be said).


Okay, I see what you're getting at here.

SolCannibal wrote:
Well, it's not like dragons are the kind of beings that will start a city or religion of their own, right? :twisted:


I've never seen or heard of anything like that. :wink:

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