Board index » MDC Worlds » Rifts®

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:23 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
I'm on the verge of starting a general Russian campaign and am wondering what in system resources would be helpful, in case I missed any. I have Warlords of Russia, Mystic Russia, and the RAW Preview of the Sovietski (my commercial copy is on the way). I'm also using Mindwerks, Triax 1 & 2, Rifter #s 6 (Russian Gods) and 79 (New Oslo) should the game progress in that direction. Since I'm probably starting in Warlord Kolodenko's Camp, I've got Pantheons of the Megaverse in case the game shifts to Iran/Persia. I also have Underseas on tap, just in case (I know it has a NGR base in it). I know I won't be using all these books to start, but if there's any Rifters I'm missing, I'd like to know.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Also, if anyone has any adventure ideas they wanted to throw out there I'd be pretty appreciative.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:27 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 2573
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy
The Bionics sourcebook would be good. You could also include some elements from China and Japan if you're interested (they're isolated, but not terribly far off).

I hope your campaign goes well! What kind of premise do you plan to present to your players?

_________________
Hotrod
Bizantium and the Northern Isles, p65 map
Arenas of Atlantis, Rifter 69
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:56 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15366
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
You could get Rifts China 1 & 2 at least because Russia shares a long border through Siberia through the Mist, and you might want to factor in the various things that sometimes come out of the mist.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:16 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
I don't have anything too written in stone, but the basic idea is that C'ro Demon Mage and its minions (a Gypsy family who worships it) are provoking conflict between Warlords Kolodenko and Sokolov, mainly to weaken Kolodenko. It does this mainly by covertly helping Sokolov's Camp raid Kolodenko's border, using its Gypsies as spies and guides. It reckons that it doesn't have to do much work to rile Sokolov. Hopefully he can push one or the other over the edge, preferably Kolodenko, as he's the bigger and better target. Why? Because it can. It sees Kolodenko as a worthy adversary to amuse itself with and Sokolov as its weapon.

Not everything is so neat and clean in the C'ro's nest, however. One of its Gypsies is, unknown to it, is a Hidden Witch who resents what she considers the enslavement of her people. She quietly works within the family to get rid of the demon. Of course, the leadership vacuum would need to be filled, and who better to fill the void than their liberator...

The Hidden Witch thinks she's remained undiscovered, but she hasn't. A Witchling ally of the C'ro knows of her treachery. No one else knows, and the Witchling doesn't quite know what to do with the knowledge. On the one hand, the Hidden Witch is an enemy of its ally, but on the other hand, it loves the drama unfolding in front of it. It's neutrality won't last forever, but for now the situation gives it the giggles.

That's more or less what I've got so far. I forgot I had the Bionics book, and planned to use it, mostly for the Mining 'Borgs. Lots of mountains to drill in Kolodenko's Camp. I thought about Japan and China, but for now I'm leaving those beasts lie. I've got enough on my plate for a while. If the game moves North (closer to the Sovietski) I'll revisit my stance on China.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:45 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 10:23 pm
Posts: 111
1970 wrote:
Also, if anyone has any adventure ideas they wanted to throw out there I'd be pretty appreciative.


I always like to bring Conversion Book 1 along. You never know when you'll need the stats for a harpies, or somebody summons a demon, or poltergeist. It's the original monster manual for Rifts.

It's also got all the warlock spells in it, ... I heard that there are a few warlocks in Russia.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:01 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
I've always liked Conversion Book One, if for no other reason that it has the Witch OCC in it. I'm trying to use it less, as I'd like to keep the Palladium Fantasy RPG as separate from my Rifts game as possible, though there's still some monsters I could use without getting too much fantasy in my game, like the Bear Men and Boogie Men. Thanks for the suggestion!

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:07 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970 wrote:
I've always liked Conversion Book One, if for no other reason that it has the Witch OCC in it. I'm trying to use it less, as I'd like to keep the Palladium Fantasy RPG as separate from my Rifts game as possible, though there's still some monsters I could use without getting too much fantasy in my game, like the Bear Men and Boogie Men. Thanks for the suggestion!


Speaking of Conversion Book 1, did you know....

- Modeus (Supernatural Intelligence, possibly an imposter and not the true lord of Hades) is literate in Dragonese/Elven, Dwarven, American, Spanish, Euro and Wolfen at 98% (also faerie lore 90%, operate computer 80%, writing 80%, basic and advanced math 98%)

- Mephisto, the Lord of Dyval (Supernatural Intelligence, confirmed as an imposter since Dragons & Gods) is literate in Dragonese/Elven, Wolfen, American, Spanish, Euro and Chinese at 98% (also has operate computer 98%, computer programming 85%, computer hacking 65%).

(along with some other very interesting skills..... "Mephisto"'s skillset as a whole is quite colorful can be great as a personality-establishing tool)


Also, according to Conversion Book 1, weretigers may be found in Russia and eastern Europe, to a far lesser degree than in India, China, Asia, and Indonesia, where they are most common.

Gryphons also inhabit mountainous parts of Asia, but are comparatively scarce in comparison to their numbers in England, Ireland, Greece and the coast of France.

Ki-lin are most common in China and Asia.

Death Weaver Spider Demons prefer hot, steamy jungles over cooler climes, are found in the Yucatan, South America, Africa, India, Asia, Malaysia, and parts of China. This means they are not exactly probable, but not exactly alien/unknown either, a place with a powerful ley line nexus, natural hot springs or both might catch the attention of a wandering one or even a group.

Goblins, orcs and werewolves are described as somewhat numerous in Eastern Europe. Don't remember how close or far from it would Sokolov's sphere count as, but thought it was worth mentioning.

As an aside, what if the clan serving the C'ro Demon Mage had a relative or two among either Kolodenko or (more probably) Solokov's forces, as an extra ace in the hole?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:31 am
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 10:52 pm
Posts: 13
1970 wrote:

Also, if anyone has any adventure ideas they wanted to throw out there I'd be pretty appreciative.


M I am currently running a Russia game for my son and two of his friends. My son’s friends are new to gaming. So at the moment they came across a treasure map to what is being called “Stalin’s treasure”. What the players don’t know is that “Stalin’s treasure” is not money but instead it’s a large under ground facility similar to Lone Star in North America. They are currently in the process of collecting 4 keys right now and at some point one or more of the WarLords are going to find out about it and I can’t wait to see how it all unfolds.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:59 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
I've always liked Conversion Book One, if for no other reason that it has the Witch OCC in it. I'm trying to use it less, as I'd like to keep the Palladium Fantasy RPG as separate from my Rifts game as possible, though there's still some monsters I could use without getting too much fantasy in my game, like the Bear Men and Boogie Men. Thanks for the suggestion!


Speaking of Conversion Book 1, did you know....

- Modeus (Supernatural Intelligence, possibly an imposter and not the true lord of Hades) is literate in Dragonese/Elven, Dwarven, American, Spanish, Euro and Wolfen at 98% (also faerie lore 90%, operate computer 80%, writing 80%, basic and advanced math 98%)

- Mephisto, the Lord of Dyval (Supernatural Intelligence, confirmed as an imposter since Dragons & Gods) is literate in Dragonese/Elven, Wolfen, American, Spanish, Euro and Chinese at 98% (also has operate computer 98%, computer programming 85%, computer hacking 65%).

(along with some other very interesting skills..... "Mephisto"'s skillset as a whole is quite colorful can be great as a personality-establishing tool)


I probably knew all of that back in the 90s when I first read it, but I haven't really cracked it open that far in a long time.


SolCannibal wrote:
Also, according to Conversion Book 1, weretigers may be found in Russia and eastern Europe, to a far lesser degree than in India, China, Asia, and Indonesia, where they are most common.

Gryphons also inhabit mountainous parts of Asia, but are comparatively scarce in comparison to their numbers in England, Ireland, Greece and the coast of France.

Ki-lin are most common in China and Asia.

Death Weaver Spider Demons prefer hot, steamy jungles over cooler climes, are found in the Yucatan, South America, Africa, India, Asia, Malaysia, and parts of China. This means they are not exactly probable, but not exactly alien/unknown either, a place with a powerful ley line nexus, natural hot springs or both might catch the attention of a wandering one or even a group.

Goblins, orcs and werewolves are described as somewhat numerous in Eastern Europe. Don't remember how close or far from it would Sokolov's sphere count as, but thought it was worth mentioning.


I knew about the orcs, but not so much about the goblins. There are werewolf-like monsters in Mystic Russia, so I'd probably use those instead. The War Camps are all pretty much in Eastern Europe if I remember correctly, so there's no discrepancy there.

SolCannibal wrote:
As an aside, what if the clan serving the C'ro Demon Mage had a relative or two among either Kolodenko or (more probably) Solokov's forces, as an extra ace in the hole?


If the Gypsies weren't so hated pretty much everywhere this wouldn't be such a problem. It is possible, however, that the C'ro has made allies with some of the low-level Reavers, who the "real" War Camp members kind of dislike, and want more respect. If they act extra brutal than normal, well, no one's going to notice because Sokolov's Camp is pretty brutal to begin with. It's his trademark move after all.

I couldn't see too many traitors in Kolodenko's Camp; he treats them good and has the support of the Cossacks as well. It's the only Camp that canonically states that doesn't have [i]any[i] Witches in it because Kolodenko exposed them and killed them all. I don't know how realistic that is, but that's what the book says.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:05 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
Stairs at the sun wrote:
1970 wrote:

Also, if anyone has any adventure ideas they wanted to throw out there I'd be pretty appreciative.


M I am currently running a Russia game for my son and two of his friends. My son’s friends are new to gaming. So at the moment they came across a treasure map to what is being called “Stalin’s treasure”. What the players don’t know is that “Stalin’s treasure” is not money but instead it’s a large under ground facility similar to Lone Star in North America. They are currently in the process of collecting 4 keys right now and at some point one or more of the WarLords are going to find out about it and I can’t wait to see how it all unfolds.


That absolutely oozes coolness! Is the facility still operational or is it a relic? Do the Sovietski know about it? They could have records of it somewhere in their archives and want to stop any of the Warlords (or player characters :wink: ) from getting it. I'm sorry if I'm overstepping, but the idea is too awesome to not fiddle with.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:20 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
As an aside, what if the clan serving the C'ro Demon Mage had a relative or two among either Kolodenko or (more probably) Solokov's forces, as an extra ace in the hole?


Another idea is that the traitors in Sokolov's Camp are more afraid of their Warlord than the Demon Mage and are turning to it for protection. Maybe the C'ro wants to cause even more chaos by instigating a regime change, then abandoning it in favor of driving Sokolov over the edge, since he'd blame Kolodenko regardless.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:01 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Goblins, orcs and werewolves are described as somewhat numerous in Eastern Europe. Don't remember how close or far from it would Sokolov's sphere count as, but thought it was worth mentioning.


I knew about the orcs, but not so much about the goblins. There are werewolf-like monsters in Mystic Russia, so I'd probably use those instead. The War Camps are all pretty much in Eastern Europe if I remember correctly, so there's no discrepancy there.


I keep forgetting - are werebeasts in Rifts a species on their oen os is it a transmissible condition, like vampirism? If the second, you could have goblin &/or orc werebeast bands.
Even if if is not a condition, you may kind of play with it, by making a group of goblins that are mostly Cobblers, who have some capacity to change in small animals.

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
As an aside, what if the clan serving the C'ro Demon Mage had a relative or two among either Kolodenko or (more probably) Solokov's forces, as an extra ace in the hole?


If the Gypsies weren't so hated pretty much everywhere this wouldn't be such a problem. It is possible, however, that the C'ro has made allies with some of the low-level Reavers, who the "real" War Camp members kind of dislike, and want more respect. If they act extra brutal than normal, well, no one's going to notice because Sokolov's Camp is pretty brutal to begin with. It's his trademark move after all.

I couldn't see too many traitors in Kolodenko's Camp; he treats them good and has the support of the Cossacks as well. It's the only Camp that canonically states that doesn't have [i]any[i] Witches in it because Kolodenko exposed them and killed them all. I don't know how realistic that is, but that's what the book says.


Warlord Orloff gives his "friend" Sokolov's forces considerable leeway in using his terrritory as area of passage to raid on other warlords territories, a capacity to come and go that could also be used to spy on, ferret possible allies and/or brew trouble in Orloff's camp.

Well, Kolodenko does seem the most capable of the warlords at ferreting out spies and traitors, so i wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility. I can imagine him relying on having psychic watchmen in a role similar to Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys in the CS, what might be of some help with any witch or shifter shenanigans i guess. Or any seers - like Gypsy Seers - might work even better for that if no other seers are available. :twisted:

And that kind of tolerance & potential for status under the mountain king would be on itself a not insignificant incentive for loyalty, might be said.


Last edited by SolCannibal on Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:26 am
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
I keep forgetting - are werebeasts in Rifts a species on their oen os is it a transmissible condition, like vampirism? If the second, you could have goblin &/or orc werebeast bands.
Even if if is not a condition, you may kind of play with it, by making a group of goblins that are mostly Cobblers, who have some capacity to change in small animals.


Werebeasts look like they're a species unto themselves. In fact, they're hardly shapeshifters at all; they use specific spell knowledge and PPE to transform.

Also, they'd make poor allies, as their first thought would probably be to eat their allies. Most have an IQ stat of 2D6, so they're not the brightest crayons in the box, so unless you're leading from a position of strength you're probably dinner.

SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
As an aside, what if the clan serving the C'ro Demon Mage had a relative or two among either Kolodenko or (more probably) Solokov's forces, as an extra ace in the hole?


If the Gypsies weren't so hated pretty much everywhere this wouldn't be such a problem. It is possible, however, that the C'ro has made allies with some of the low-level Reavers, who the "real" War Camp members kind of dislike, and want more respect. If they act extra brutal than normal, well, no one's going to notice because Sokolov's Camp is pretty brutal to begin with. It's his trademark move after all.

I couldn't see too many traitors in Kolodenko's Camp; he treats them good and has the support of the Cossacks as well. It's the only Camp that canonically states that doesn't have [i]any[i] Witches in it because Kolodenko exposed them and killed them all. I don't know how realistic that is, but that's what the book says.


Warlord Orloff gives his "friend" Sokolov's forces considerable leeway in using his terrritory as area of passage to raid on other warlords territories, a capacity to come and go that could also be used to spy on, ferret possible allies and/or brew trouble in Orloff's camp.

Well, Kolodenko does seem the most capable of the warlords at ferreting out spies and traitors, so i wouldn't say it's out of the realm of possibility. I can imagine him relying on having psychic watchmen in a role similar to Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys in the CS, what might be of some help with any witch or shifter shenanigans i guess. Or any seers - like Gypsy Seers - might work even better for that if no other seers are available. :twisted:

And that kind of tolerance & potential for status under the mountain king would be on itself a not insignificant incentive for loyalty, might be said.


Gypsy Seers to route out Witches? That sounds like fun for a C'ro who doesn't want any competition. Whether or not Kolodenko could get away with fraternizing with Gypsies without alienating his other allies is something he could probably manage, but if it got out his Cossack allies may start thinking less highly of him. That's an army who's good side he'd like to stay on.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:40 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
I keep forgetting - are werebeasts in Rifts a species on their oen os is it a transmissible condition, like vampirism? If the second, you could have goblin &/or orc werebeast bands.
Even if if is not a condition, you may kind of play with it, by making a group of goblins that are mostly Cobblers, who have some capacity to change in small animals.


Werebeasts look like they're a species unto themselves. In fact, they're hardly shapeshifters at all; they use specific spell knowledge and PPE to transform.

Also, they'd make poor allies, as their first thought would probably be to eat their allies. Most have an IQ stat of 2D6, so they're not the brightest crayons in the box, so unless you're leading from a position of strength you're probably dinner.


So, Orcs would have been right at home as werewolves, most people might not even notice anything different. :lol:
But if werebeasts are a race on their own that just happens to look like humans in one of its forms, forget it.

That said, a cobbler goblin could be pretty handy for espionage, sabotage and sneaky underhanded shenanigans in general.

1970 wrote:
Gypsy Seers to route out Witches? That sounds like fun for a C'ro who doesn't want any competition. Whether or not Kolodenko could get away with fraternizing with Gypsies without alienating his other allies is something he could probably manage, but if it got out his Cossack allies may start thinking less highly of him. That's an army who's good side he'd like to stay on.


Well, it's all a matter of how well kolodenko manages his many followers' opinions & views. Success on the gypsies' part might make some give them the benefit of doubt. Or spark a bit of envy that makes either the cossacks or some of his other followers dislike those "gipsy witches" even more. Social dynamics are complex in that eeven similar people can have wildly differing reactions to the same things. And that helps generate conflict, obviously. :P

1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
As an aside, what if the clan serving the C'ro Demon Mage had a relative or two among either Kolodenko or (more probably) Solokov's forces, as an extra ace in the hole?


Another idea is that the traitors in Sokolov's Camp are more afraid of their Warlord than the Demon Mage and are turning to it for protection. Maybe the C'ro wants to cause even more chaos by instigating a regime change, then abandoning it in favor of driving Sokolov over the edge, since he'd blame Kolodenko regardless.


The Demon Mage trying to drive Sokolov nuts instead of doing a straight takeover makes sense - get him and Kolodenko to spend resources and followers in an unecessary conflict before it goes for the throat in whose forces are left most vulnerable in the end. All a matter of making sure one's own minions get less roughed up than the rest....

As an aside, it has crossed my mind that Kolodenko's main advantage against Sokolov - domination and familiarity with mountain fighting - would be turned upside down against adversaries that fly &/or manipulate earth and stone. Like Gargoyles and specially Gargoyle Mages.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:13 am
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Mon May 27, 2019 10:52 pm
Posts: 13
1970 wrote:
Stairs at the sun wrote:
1970 wrote:

Also, if anyone has any adventure ideas they wanted to throw out there I'd be pretty appreciative.


M I am currently running a Russia game for my son and two of his friends. My son’s friends are new to gaming. So at the moment they came across a treasure map to what is being called “Stalin’s treasure”. What the players don’t know is that “Stalin’s treasure” is not money but instead it’s a large under ground facility similar to Lone Star in North America. They are currently in the process of collecting 4 keys right now and at some point one or more of the WarLords are going to find out about it and I can’t wait to see how it all unfolds.


That absolutely oozes coolness! Is the facility still operational or is it a relic? Do the Sovietski know about it? They could have records of it somewhere in their archives and want to stop any of the Warlords (or player characters :wink: ) from getting it. I'm sorry if I'm overstepping, but the idea is too awesome to not fiddle with.


Thank you
Right now I am treating it almost like a myth, they have a map with 4 locations and no names they had to use skill checks to orient themselves. I have a Facebook group that is named Rifts, I have posted a detailed recap of the Russian adventure. If you are on FB you are more than welcome to join. Also if you like the idea feel free to use it any way you want. Whatever gets the creativity going you know what I mean.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:08 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970, a question - what would be the chances of one of the Angel of Death's bionics, MoM & psynetics body chops establishing themselves in one of the warlord spheres of influence?

It crossed my mind that Sokolov's camp might have the right combination of backwardness and desperation for them to fall head over heels for the chance to get any edge before his rivals, while providing a good base of sorts for Mindwerks to spy on the warlords and maybe spark trobule for the NGR.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:21 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 6244
Location: Jewdica
Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
1970 wrote:
Werebeasts look like they're a species unto themselves. In fact, they're hardly shapeshifters at all; they use specific spell knowledge and PPE to transform.


Are you sure about the PPE to transform part? I pulled out the Dark Conversion book and I don’t see anything about needing PPE to transform in their Shape-Changing Power.


Daniel Stoker

_________________
Judaism - More Old School than either Christianity or Islam.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:35 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
1970, a question - what would be the chances of one of the Angel of Death's bionics, MoM & psynetics body chops establishing themselves in one of the warlord spheres of influence?

It crossed my mind that Sokolov's camp might have the right combination of backwardness and desperation for them to fall head over heels for the chance to get any edge before his rivals, while providing a good base of sorts for Mindwerks to spy on the warlords and maybe spark trobule for the NGR.


I think the Angel of Death's experimentation and alliance/governance over the Brodkil and the fact that she's probably crazier than Sokolov is would prevent a lot of cooperation between the two. It doesn't help that he's got more than casual issues with paranoia. Besides, if the other Warlords got even a whiff of of him allying with monsters they'd fall on him like a pack of wolves. The Sovietski would get a few kicks in too, if given the chance. I just don't see it happening.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:42 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
Daniel Stoker wrote:
1970 wrote:
Werebeasts look like they're a species unto themselves. In fact, they're hardly shapeshifters at all; they use specific spell knowledge and PPE to transform.


Are you sure about the PPE to transform part? I pulled out the Dark Conversion book and I don’t see anything about needing PPE to transform in their Shape-Changing Power.


Daniel Stoker


I think I kind of made an assumption there, considering that they have Metamorphosis: Animal and Metamorphosis: Human as known spells plus a mountain of PPE (2D4x10+10). I don't have Dark Conversions though, just the Conversion Book One 1st Edtion to go with; it may be better explained there.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:06 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
1970, a question - what would be the chances of one of the Angel of Death's bionics, MoM & psynetics body chops establishing themselves in one of the warlord spheres of influence?

It crossed my mind that Sokolov's camp might have the right combination of backwardness and desperation for them to fall head over heels for the chance to get any edge before his rivals, while providing a good base of sorts for Mindwerks to spy on the warlords and maybe spark trobule for the NGR.


I think the Angel of Death's experimentation and alliance/governance over the Brodkil and the fact that she's probably crazier than Sokolov is would prevent a lot of cooperation between the two. It doesn't help that he's got more than casual issues with paranoia. Besides, if the other Warlords got even a whiff of of him allying with monsters they'd fall on him like a pack of wolves. The Sovietski would get a few kicks in too, if given the chance. I just don't see it happening.


She doesn't have to involve herself, order it (officially or not) - or even to know of such a particular move, for that matter.

According to the Mindwekrs book itself, a good chunk of the body chops in Eastern Europe are maintained by either her people or by third parties supplied with equipment and know-how by her agents. She has quite a large chunk of the european black market on her grip and uses it as smokescreen and spy network of sorts, beside a venue for field testing of new models among other things.

One of the many cells or operationns under her secret service could start it on its own as a sort of scouting/diverting operation in Russia, empowering a backward warlord, so it may distract rivals that mmight otherrwise pay more attention to the Brodkill or Gargoyles.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:30 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 6244
Location: Jewdica
Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
1970 wrote:
I think I kind of made an assumption there, considering that they have Metamorphosis: Animal and Metamorphosis: Human as known spells plus a mountain of PPE (2D4x10+10). I don't have Dark Conversions though, just the Conversion Book One 1st Edtion to go with; it may be better explained there.


Yeah, that doesn't help, but after looking over the 2 books the power seem to be the same saying they can transform at will day or night in 15 seconds with the 3 shapes, human, man-wolf, and wolf. Personally I'd say they use those spells to hide themselves or copy people to lure others out or something along those lines. But I agree that really seems off for them to have those spells.


Daniel Stoker

_________________
Judaism - More Old School than either Christianity or Islam.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:52 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Daniel Stoker wrote:
1970 wrote:
I think I kind of made an assumption there, considering that they have Metamorphosis: Animal and Metamorphosis: Human as known spells plus a mountain of PPE (2D4x10+10). I don't have Dark Conversions though, just the Conversion Book One 1st Edtion to go with; it may be better explained there.


Yeah, that doesn't help, but after looking over the 2 books the power seem to be the same saying they can transform at will day or night in 15 seconds with the 3 shapes, human, man-wolf, and wolf. Personally I'd say they use those spells to hide themselves or copy people to lure others out or something along those lines. But I agree that really seems off for them to have those spells.


Daniel Stoker


Reading the Coversion Book, i can see the issue - the description of their natural ability is just above the magic header, what together with a lack of clarity can lead to considerable confusion to the stats meaning. But let me give it a try.

Conversion Book1, pg.191-192 wrote:
Shape-changing power: The creature can shape-change at will, day or night. The metamorphosis takes about 15 seconds (one melee) and there is no limit to the number of times the creature can perform a metamorphosis or how long he can maintain that particular shape.

As stated previously, the creatures are quite cunning, thus they generally assume the less frightening form of human or wolf during the bright sunlight hours when humans are on the prowl, and into the monster-wolf humanoid (Their true form) form or wolf shape during the night. Also, since they are nocturnal hunters, they tend to sleep most of the day and are active during the night. The three (3) shapes are human, wolf, and its natural shape of wolf-humanoid (half-man half-wolf).


So, the werewolf might be thought of as a shapechanger whose natural form is similar to a short Wolfen or Coyle, but with the capacity to turn into either wolf or human, beside this they have a number of magical & psychic capacities.

Conversion Book1, pg.192 wrote:
Magic: P.P.E.: 2D4x10+10. Metamorphosis: animal, metamorphosis: human, summon and control canines, repel animals, see the invisible, and tongues.
Psionic Abilities: I.S.P.: 5D6. Psi-powers: Sixth sense, see the invisible, mind block.


But Sol, ain't "Metamorphosis: animal, metamorphosis: human" their shape-changing power, is that not a redundancy or editing slip? what use could they have for spells costing PPE for what they can already do at will?

Yes, the presence of "metamorphosis: animal & metamorphosis: human" among their magical powers could be an editing error, a differing obsolete take of their abilities that slipped in the final book without anyone noticing.... it's quite possible, if not probable. Comparing to the Dark Conversion edition's text might help answering this.

But it could be treated as if by intent. Bear with me. The werewolf's shape-changing power lets him adopt a particular human or wolf form that are his own. But he only turns in that particular person or wolf with it. The metamorphosis spells let him turnn itself into different appearances for a time, at a cost. So, yeah, quite advantageous (and consistent with oD&D Wolfweres, there were more fairy tale-ish shapechanger bad wolf than lycanthrope, if memory tricks me not) of a "redundancy" to have.

Anyway, the fact the "wolf-man" is defined as the natural/true form is interesting on itself and making me thing of werewolves blending amidst Wolfen or Dog Boy groups (though the later might be harder, if not outright impossible, without some doggo colaboration on the side).


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:13 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
1970, a question - what would be the chances of one of the Angel of Death's bionics, MoM & psynetics body chops establishing themselves in one of the warlord spheres of influence?

It crossed my mind that Sokolov's camp might have the right combination of backwardness and desperation for them to fall head over heels for the chance to get any edge before his rivals, while providing a good base of sorts for Mindwerks to spy on the warlords and maybe spark trobule for the NGR.


I think the Angel of Death's experimentation and alliance/governance over the Brodkil and the fact that she's probably crazier than Sokolov is would prevent a lot of cooperation between the two. It doesn't help that he's got more than casual issues with paranoia. Besides, if the other Warlords got even a whiff of of him allying with monsters they'd fall on him like a pack of wolves. The Sovietski would get a few kicks in too, if given the chance. I just don't see it happening.


She doesn't have to involve herself, order it (officially or not) - or even to know of such a particular move, for that matter.

According to the Mindwekrs book itself, a good chunk of the body chops in Eastern Europe are maintained by either her people or by third parties supplied with equipment and know-how by her agents. She has quite a large chunk of the european black market on her grip and uses it as smokescreen and spy network of sorts, beside a venue for field testing of new models among other things.

One of the many cells or operationns under her secret service could start it on its own as a sort of scouting/diverting operation in Russia, empowering a backward warlord, so it may distract rivals that mmight otherrwise pay more attention to the Brodkill or Gargoyles.


I still don't think Sokolov would trust a Black Market chop-shop as an ally. He's way too paranoid to make alliances with things he can't control, Warlord Orloff being a strange exception. They could be spying on Sokolov, but why? He's an off-kilter Warlord who's probably going to et himself assassinated within the next five years or so, assuming that he doesn't go to war with Kolodenko's Camp and get slaughtered on the field of battle. Sure they could make some money, maybe, but is it worth the risk? Maybe not.

Unlike the C'ro, Mindwerks doesn't have a stake in the cold war between Kolodenko and Sokolov. It would probably be a curiosity at best, especially considering how far away the both of them are from occupied Poland and Czechoslovakia (I think that's where Mindwerks is; I don't have my book next to me). Spying on the C'ro would be worth the risk, if they knew it was there, which they probably don't.

Of course, things are changing, with the Kolodenko, Romanov, and Seriyev Camps allying with one another and their clandestine partnership with the Sovietski. That would be something worth looking into, I'm just not sure that making their base of operations in Sokolov's Camp would be the smart move. Seriyev's Camp would make the most sense, as he has multiple contacts in the Black Market and may not entirely expect them of spying on him. Oh who am I kidding; of course he expects it. He'll probably be responsible for feeding them wrong information just to keep them on out of his hair.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling here, so I'll stop. If you're still with me, thanks for reading!

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:23 pm
  

User avatar
Explorer

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:06 am
Posts: 118
Location: Southeastern Kentucky, USA
Comment: Eternally Sleepy
SolCannibal wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
1970 wrote:
I think I kind of made an assumption there, considering that they have Metamorphosis: Animal and Metamorphosis: Human as known spells plus a mountain of PPE (2D4x10+10). I don't have Dark Conversions though, just the Conversion Book One 1st Edtion to go with; it may be better explained there.


Yeah, that doesn't help, but after looking over the 2 books the power seem to be the same saying they can transform at will day or night in 15 seconds with the 3 shapes, human, man-wolf, and wolf. Personally I'd say they use those spells to hide themselves or copy people to lure others out or something along those lines. But I agree that really seems off for them to have those spells.


Daniel Stoker


Reading the Coversion Book, i can see the issue - the description of their natural ability is just above the magic header, what together with a lack of clarity can lead to considerable confusion to the stats meaning. But let me give it a try.

Conversion Book1, pg.191-192 wrote:
Shape-changing power: The creature can shape-change at will, day or night. The metamorphosis takes about 15 seconds (one melee) and there is no limit to the number of times the creature can perform a metamorphosis or how long he can maintain that particular shape.

As stated previously, the creatures are quite cunning, thus they generally assume the less frightening form of human or wolf during the bright sunlight hours when humans are on the prowl, and into the monster-wolf humanoid (Their true form) form or wolf shape during the night. Also, since they are nocturnal hunters, they tend to sleep most of the day and are active during the night. The three (3) shapes are human, wolf, and its natural shape of wolf-humanoid (half-man half-wolf).


So, the werewolf might be thought of as a shapechanger whose natural form is similar to a short Wolfen or Coyle, but with the capacity to turn into either wolf or human, beside this they have a number of magical & psychic capacities.

Conversion Book1, pg.192 wrote:
Magic: P.P.E.: 2D4x10+10. Metamorphosis: animal, metamorphosis: human, summon and control canines, repel animals, see the invisible, and tongues.
Psionic Abilities: I.S.P.: 5D6. Psi-powers: Sixth sense, see the invisible, mind block.


But Sol, ain't "Metamorphosis: animal, metamorphosis: human" their shape-changing power, is that not a redundancy or editing slip? what use could they have for spells costing PPE for what they can already do at will?

Yes, the presence of "metamorphosis: animal & metamorphosis: human" among their magical powers could be an editing error, a differing obsolete take of their abilities that slipped in the final book without anyone noticing.... it's quite possible, if not probable. Comparing to the Dark Conversion edition's text might help answering this.

But it could be treated as if by intent. Bear with me. The werewolf's shape-changing power lets him adopt a particular human or wolf form that are his own. But he only turns in that particular person or wolf with it. The metamorphosis spells let him turnn itself into different appearances for a time, at a cost. So, yeah, quite advantageous (and consistent with oD&D Wolfweres, there were more fairy tale-ish shapechanger bad wolf than lycanthrope, if memory tricks me not) of a "redundancy" to have.

Anyway, the fact the "wolf-man" is defined as the natural/true form is interesting on itself and making me thing of werewolves blending amidst Wolfen or Dog Boy groups (though the later might be harder, if not outright impossible, without some doggo colaboration on the side).


Stepping away from the Conversion Books, I looked up their stats in Beyond the Supernatural 1st edition and they still have the crazy amount of PPE and all the spells they copied into the Conversion Books, but no notes about shape-shifting powers. I don't know if this adds to the conversation, considering Rifts Earth has so much more magic, which could explain why they can keep their different forms indefinitely and why they could shape-shift without using magic.

_________________
Formless Faceless and Free


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:32 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970 wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
1970 wrote:
I think I kind of made an assumption there, considering that they have Metamorphosis: Animal and Metamorphosis: Human as known spells plus a mountain of PPE (2D4x10+10). I don't have Dark Conversions though, just the Conversion Book One 1st Edtion to go with; it may be better explained there.


Yeah, that doesn't help, but after looking over the 2 books the power seem to be the same saying they can transform at will day or night in 15 seconds with the 3 shapes, human, man-wolf, and wolf. Personally I'd say they use those spells to hide themselves or copy people to lure others out or something along those lines. But I agree that really seems off for them to have those spells.


Daniel Stoker


Reading the Coversion Book, i can see the issue - the description of their natural ability is just above the magic header, what together with a lack of clarity can lead to considerable confusion to the stats meaning. But let me give it a try.

Conversion Book1, pg.191-192 wrote:
Shape-changing power: The creature can shape-change at will, day or night. The metamorphosis takes about 15 seconds (one melee) and there is no limit to the number of times the creature can perform a metamorphosis or how long he can maintain that particular shape.

As stated previously, the creatures are quite cunning, thus they generally assume the less frightening form of human or wolf during the bright sunlight hours when humans are on the prowl, and into the monster-wolf humanoid (Their true form) form or wolf shape during the night. Also, since they are nocturnal hunters, they tend to sleep most of the day and are active during the night. The three (3) shapes are human, wolf, and its natural shape of wolf-humanoid (half-man half-wolf).


So, the werewolf might be thought of as a shapechanger whose natural form is similar to a short Wolfen or Coyle, but with the capacity to turn into either wolf or human, beside this they have a number of magical & psychic capacities.

Conversion Book1, pg.192 wrote:
Magic: P.P.E.: 2D4x10+10. Metamorphosis: animal, metamorphosis: human, summon and control canines, repel animals, see the invisible, and tongues.
Psionic Abilities: I.S.P.: 5D6. Psi-powers: Sixth sense, see the invisible, mind block.


But Sol, ain't "Metamorphosis: animal, metamorphosis: human" their shape-changing power, is that not a redundancy or editing slip? what use could they have for spells costing PPE for what they can already do at will?

Yes, the presence of "metamorphosis: animal & metamorphosis: human" among their magical powers could be an editing error, a differing obsolete take of their abilities that slipped in the final book without anyone noticing.... it's quite possible, if not probable. Comparing to the Dark Conversion edition's text might help answering this.

But it could be treated as if by intent. Bear with me. The werewolf's shape-changing power lets him adopt a particular human or wolf form that are his own. But he only turns in that particular person or wolf with it. The metamorphosis spells let him turnn itself into different appearances for a time, at a cost. So, yeah, quite advantageous (and consistent with oD&D Wolfweres, there were more fairy tale-ish shapechanger bad wolf than lycanthrope, if memory tricks me not) of a "redundancy" to have.

Anyway, the fact the "wolf-man" is defined as the natural/true form is interesting on itself and making me thing of werewolves blending amidst Wolfen or Dog Boy groups (though the later might be harder, if not outright impossible, without some doggo colaboration on the side).


Stepping away from the Conversion Books, I looked up their stats in Beyond the Supernatural 1st edition and they still have the crazy amount of PPE and all the spells they copied into the Conversion Books, but no notes about shape-shifting powers. I don't know if this adds to the conversation, considering Rifts Earth has so much more magic, which could explain why they can keep their different forms indefinitely and why they could shape-shift without using magic.


It's complicated i guess. There's the possibility of increased magical energies allowing for different degrees of shapechanging (there's a monster in Spirit West with exactly such a condition) or a separate but related sort of monster with slightly different abilities under the same name - like Beyond the Supernatural 1st edition having Gargoyle Mages AND Gargoyle Lords who are full spellcasters (even Gargoyle Mages, beside the name, are just Earth Warlocks and nothing else) of limited skill/experience.

(As an aside - totally going to slip a 1e BtS Gargoyles clan in a Rifts game for a bit of messing around)

Guess the real question then is - what intepretation of werewolves would you use in your game, if you were in the mood to?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:30 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
1970 wrote:
I still don't think Sokolov would trust a Black Market chop-shop as an ally. He's way too paranoid to make alliances with things he can't control, Warlord Orloff being a strange exception. They could be spying on Sokolov, but why? He's an off-kilter Warlord who's probably going to et himself assassinated within the next five years or so, assuming that he doesn't go to war with Kolodenko's Camp and get slaughtered on the field of battle. Sure they could make some money, maybe, but is it worth the risk? Maybe not.

Unlike the C'ro, Mindwerks doesn't have a stake in the cold war between Kolodenko and Sokolov. It would probably be a curiosity at best, especially considering how far away the both of them are from occupied Poland and Czechoslovakia (I think that's where Mindwerks is; I don't have my book next to me). Spying on the C'ro would be worth the risk, if they knew it was there, which they probably don't.

Of course, things are changing, with the Kolodenko, Romanov, and Seriyev Camps allying with one another and their clandestine partnership with the Sovietski. That would be something worth looking into, I'm just not sure that making their base of operations in Sokolov's Camp would be the smart move. Seriyev's Camp would make the most sense, as he has multiple contacts in the Black Market and may not entirely expect them of spying on him. Oh who am I kidding; of course he expects it. He'll probably be responsible for feeding them wrong information just to keep them on out of his hair.

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling here, so I'll stop. If you're still with me, thanks for reading!


You make some good arguments on Mindwerks possible priorities when it comes to spying on the Warlords.

That said, Sokolov is as useful, if not more so, as a distraction, tool of sabotage to run interference upon warlords closer to her sphere of influence, like the Romanov, Seriyev and the Sovietski, than as grapevine of local intelligence. Sokolov is paranoid, but an all-around paranoid, convincing "enemy of my enemy is a possible partner" could work for a time. It's a matter of which rivlas he keeps more of an eye upon, might be said.

What doesn't have to involve exposing one's association to the Brodkill - Seriyev logically has friends and enemiees in the Black Market, either of which might like an opportunity to bring him down a notch or two. Forging a connection between the Black Market and/or the Kingdom of Tarnow for example, could serve as a reasonably plausible cover to wanting to ally with Solokov to mess with certain warlords, i think. Untrue, but close enough to fit and if Solokov (or someone spying on his camp) ever decide to "expose" them, it could lead to trouble for Tarnow, for a quite nice extra bonus.

Just some thoughts of my own on regional intrigue & politics possibilities. Rough and lacking some re-reading of the books, but could serve as a springboard for some plots & threats i guess.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:44 pm
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 6244
Location: Jewdica
Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
1970 wrote:
Stepping away from the Conversion Books, I looked up their stats in Beyond the Supernatural 1st edition and they still have the crazy amount of PPE and all the spells they copied into the Conversion Books, but no notes about shape-shifting powers. I don't know if this adds to the conversation, considering Rifts Earth has so much more magic, which could explain why they can keep their different forms indefinitely and why they could shape-shift without using magic.


Just to add to the fun the old Palladium Fantasy 1st edition and 2nd has them as a race and a curse version, with the race only able to turn at night, and with the cursed version only able to turn on the full moon.


Daniel Stoker

_________________
Judaism - More Old School than either Christianity or Islam.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:34 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm
Posts: 1630
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Daniel Stoker wrote:
1970 wrote:
Stepping away from the Conversion Books, I looked up their stats in Beyond the Supernatural 1st edition and they still have the crazy amount of PPE and all the spells they copied into the Conversion Books, but no notes about shape-shifting powers. I don't know if this adds to the conversation, considering Rifts Earth has so much more magic, which could explain why they can keep their different forms indefinitely and why they could shape-shift without using magic.


Just to add to the fun the old Palladium Fantasy 1st edition and 2nd has them as a race and a curse version, with the race only able to turn at night, and with the cursed version only able to turn on the full moon.


Daniel Stoker


Summing it all, the evidence seems to add up to there being a variety of beings labeled "werewolf", much like there's a bunch of different but related forms of dragon. It's just that wolves & dogs are not as ridiculous varied in appearance a group as giant lizards, i guess. :wink:


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group