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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:24 am
  

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Knight

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"Answers to some often asked Questions about RIFTS" (Sourcebook 1 unrevised, pgs 5-11) mentions on left column of page 10 (prior to reprinting the missing Sense PPE from BTS) that PATBPAM include SAMAS, Glitter Boy and Robot Vehicles when asking if psi-stalkers could track someone wearing them.

The answer was no, which made me wonder just how many kinds of power armor blocked psi/magic and which might be usable for the purpose of avoiding psi-stalker harassment.

I'm not really sure what this question actually built on though... does anyone remember where in the main book it talked about being in environmental vehicles preventing you from casting spells on stuff outside them? I remember reading that but I thought that was clarified later on, can't remember where in RMB.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:40 am
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
I forget what book, but there was an answer given somewhere, any armor with 220 MDC or more, is the threshold for cutting off magical tracking. Which means that Terrain Hopper Power Armor or the Chipwell suit are too light to block it.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:17 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
I forget what book, but there was an answer given somewhere, any armor with 220 MDC or more, is the threshold for cutting off magical tracking. Which means that Terrain Hopper Power Armor or the Chipwell suit are too light to block it.

I thought the cut off was lower but I remember a rule being stated somewhere but I couldn't find it either. If anyone knows where it is it would be great if they posted it.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:58 pm
  

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Knight

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
I forget what book, but there was an answer given somewhere, any armor with 220 MDC or more, is the threshold for cutting off magical tracking. Which means that Terrain Hopper Power Armor or the Chipwell suit are too light to block it.



This rings a bell for me as well but I am not sure where I saw it. Basically the larger more fully mechanized ones do the ones that are basically lightly augmented body armor like the lighter NG models don't.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:21 pm
  

Palladin

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pretty sure the cut-off point for psionics was 250 MDC. not sure about magic.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:13 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Shark_Force wrote:
pretty sure the cut-off point for psionics was 250 MDC. not sure about magic.


I recall it being 250 for psionics as well. Magic on the other hand is hampered differently (BoM, page 21).


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:24 pm
  

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Knight

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Whether 220 or 250, (either justifying the SAMAS) the question to me is: when Sourcebook 1 first came out, what actual resources existed at that time? There can't have been many books published. I figure maybe just the core book, maybe the conversion book and world book 1 or 2?

Did Palladium have a website, an online FAQ at the time which might've added this "can't cast spells from inside a vehicle / bot / heavy PA" rule? Some kind of 1991 Palladium Books "alt.Rifts" mailing list where this information could've been passed through to generate questions? No idea what kind of community might've existed around Rifts 28 years ago.

Pretty sure SB1 was pre-Rifter...

How did an "often asked question about PA that block psi" exist as an often-asked question if we can't find a rule which talked about PA blocking psi?

My SB1is a 6th printing from March 1995 so I guess I should first check that this was actually in earlier printings, can anyone confirm if any earlier editions list this question on page 10?

It's right before "can a psi-stalker feed on ISP?"


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:16 pm
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
There was no mailing list or website FAQ that was offically cannon, but a lot of the eairly Rifters and some current ones DO have Offical Q&A's with canon answers that to my knowlege many are only printed in those rifters, but some were later included in future books or later printings.

But no, I know this was a book...Somewhere...

Rifts Game Masters Guide does have various rules on Psionics effecting people in armor, but don't cover MDC requirements, and is broader (Some powers have limited effectiveness others none, ect_)

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Last edited by Nekira Sudacne on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:18 pm
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

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Axelmania wrote:
Whether 220 or 250, (either justifying the SAMAS) the question to me is: when Sourcebook 1 first came out, what actual resources existed at that time? There can't have been many books published. I figure maybe just the core book, maybe the conversion book and world book 1 or 2?

Did Palladium have a website, an online FAQ at the time which might've added this "can't cast spells from inside a vehicle / bot / heavy PA" rule? Some kind of 1991 Palladium Books "alt.Rifts" mailing list where this information could've been passed through to generate questions? No idea what kind of community might've existed around Rifts 28 years ago.

Pretty sure SB1 was pre-Rifter...

How did an "often asked question about PA that block psi" exist as an often-asked question if we can't find a rule which talked about PA blocking psi?

My SB1is a 6th printing from March 1995 so I guess I should first check that this was actually in earlier printings, can anyone confirm if any earlier editions list this question on page 10?

It's right before "can a psi-stalker feed on ISP?"


I looked at SB1 before posting. The only thing there was that it said some armors are designed to block psychic powers, with the SAMAS and Glitter Boy being examples. It didn't list a number value.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:58 am
  

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Knight

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Quote:
Answers to some often asked Questions about RIFTS®

Over the past months, since Rifts' release, we've been buried under a ton of joyous fan letters.
Along with glorious praise there are often questions.
The following are some of the questions we seem to hear time and time again.

Question:
Can a psi-stalker track a mage, psionic, or supernatural being who is wearing one of the power armors that block psionics and magic such as SAMAS, Glitter Boy, and giant robot vehicles?


Answer:
NO! However, the psionic or mage inside the robot or power armor can not use his paranormal powers to affect anybody outside the armor or bot.
Of course, if the individual steps out of the robot for a moment, and is in range of the Psi-Stalker, he may be sensed immediately and the stalker will be on his trail again.
Likewise, stepping out and using magic will leave a magic scent and the Psi-Stalker will know that magic was used at a particular location and approximately how long ago.


Here's what I'm confused about: Kev implies that this is a question he seems to hear "time and time again"...

Based on just the Rifts RPG?

But did the Rifts RPG say anywhere about any kind of power armor blocking psionics or magic? I had thought that got added later in a Rifter FAQ, but this implies it was a present rule when just the main book was out...


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:36 am
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Game Masters Guide has an updated answer: SOME psioncis work through, and some don't, it gives a more nuanced breakdown.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:08 pm
  

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Knight

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From 2001, like 10 years after SB1 came out, I think? The mystery continues...


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:34 am
  

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D-Bee

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Quote:
3. Physical psionic manifestations, including all types of Telekinesis, Hydrokinesis, Electrokinesis, Pyrokinesis, Mind Bolt, and any physical attack created by a psionic power, usually require "line of sight" - the intended target must be seen, and a physical force will be stopped by a locked door or physical barrier unless the attacker can see his victim/target through an opening or window. Of course, physical psionic attacks can be directed at the door, a vehicle or a barrier.
Note that other limitations may apply, such as the victim must hear the psychic's voice or make eye contact or can only be affected by touch or within a particular range. All psychic abilities will note limitations, restrictions and requirements. Remember, in most cases, a psionic power/attack can only be directed at one specific target/subject at a time.
Note: Psi-Powers requiring physical contact/touch can not be used on any character sealed inside a vehicle, nor environmental armor for that matter, unless it is the mechanical armor that is being attacked or targeted.
-RUE, pg. 366


Am I the only one that always considers Power Armor a "Physical Barrier?"

IMO You can't use Bio-Manipulation on a Glitterboy Pilot in his armor, or Electrokinesis to shut off the Glitterboys sensors, or use Psychic Omni-Sight to see who is piloting the Glitterboy. This also means that I don't allow Telemechanic Paralysis to shut down the armor.

My reasoning is that the Psychic can't get to the armors "nervous system" or power supply because its protected by layers and layers of MDC armor.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:00 pm
  

Palladin

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Godslayer wrote:

Am I the only one that always considers Power Armor a "Physical Barrier?"

IMO You can't use Bio-Manipulation on a Glitterboy Pilot in his armor, or Electrokinesis to shut off the Glitterboys sensors, or use Psychic Omni-Sight to see who is piloting the Glitterboy. This also means that I don't allow Telemechanic Paralysis to shut down the armor.

My reasoning is that the Psychic can't get to the armors "nervous system" or power supply because its protected by layers and layers of MDC armor.


so out of curiosity, what exactly do you think telemechanic paralysis is *supposed* to work on?

is it intended for use just in case you encounter a robot or power armour where someone has decided to put all the internal components on the outside of the armour?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:27 pm
  

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Knight

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It sounds like Gslayer is thinking you need to rip off some of the outer MDC (plating) to get into the electrical components, but the difficulty in that approach is it wouldn't be clear how much damage to the main body would be needed for that.

Perhaps we could treat all power armor MDC as those electrical components and give all PA "borg armor" to wear overtop which psis need to bust through first to affect them?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:59 pm
  

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D-Bee

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Shark_Force wrote:
so out of curiosity, what exactly do you think telemechanic paralysis is *supposed* to work on?

is it intended for use just in case you encounter a robot or power armour where someone has decided to put all the internal components on the outside of the armour?


Anything not physically surrounded by layers of thick armor. (I generally use a 200+ MDC rule here). So weapons, many vehicles (especially hovercycles), alarms, cameras and surveillance systems, most robots and drones (skelebots are not considered armored, they are made out of MDC materials, sure, but not covered in layers of armor), missiles (that saved one characters bacon), etc.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:28 pm
  

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Knight

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Layers? We have an inches-thick minimum maybe? So once something has less than 200 MDC (ie deplete 50 MDC for a SAMAS, 100 MDC for an Enforcer) you'd allow it?


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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:14 pm
  

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D-Bee

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Sure. I tend to play things by ear and go with the story. If it made sense, then I'd let the player try it. For something like blowing a hole in the armor to access the suits internals, I'd probably just make them roll something.

Or if they were talking to a SAMAS pilot and he had his helmet off, exposing the suits internals, that could work to. Whatever makes sense.

I swear I had read a ruling from Kevin to this effect a few years back, but I haven't been able to find it today. But it makes sense to me.


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