Astral Projection Techno-Wizard Portals for Muggles

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Astral Projection Techno-Wizard Portals for Muggles

Unread post by Axelmania »

RUE 133 mentions Citrine would be needed for such a device. Perhaps even to reduce the basic cost of 10 PPE. Which strangely is higher than the 7 PPE it takes to cast that spell in Nightbane, or 6 PPE in Heroes Unlimited, though Palladium Fantasy also goes with 10. Perhaps there is an inverse correlation between the levels of magic in a world and ease in which you can use magic to emulate this psychic power?

Speaking of which... particularly in shaping this power for someone who has never used it... what exactly DOES happen when you flip the switch?

Although one of RMB's basic spells, it was not one of the ones reprinted in RUE, several of the initial RPG's spells which were booted out to make room for some of the new FoM magic I guess. This means the latest printing of it is in Book of Magic, page 99.

The description has always been pretty simple:
    sends the spell caster's Astral body into the Astral Plane, another dimension
    ..
    functions exactly like the Psychic Sensitive ability

Unfortunately... it's not 100% clear that these 2 statements can actually coexist. This is seen when we head back to RUE 171 and look at the function.

Firstly: the 4 to 16 minutes of prep. Is that a function the spell has? The 5/level of the psi presumably begins after that prep, though I'm not sure if it's 100% explicit on that. I guess it'd be interesting if you began the timer when you began the prep, because at 1st level you'd at best have 1 minute on the plane (1 in 256 chance) and you'd only be guaranteed time on the plane by 4th level, when 20 minutes would give you somewhere between 4 and 16 minutes post-prep.

If the 5/level is post-prep for the psi, the question is whether a mage using the power would need to begin 4D4 prep after casting the spell. If not... does that mean he skips the prep? Would the "1 action to cast low level spells" in RUE basically replace the 4D4 prep and make the spell a much faster way to get to the astral plane compared to psi?

Looking to the mechanics, we also see that the psi does not send the body into the Plane at all. That's merely an option provided which takes extra time...

    After a minute of concentration the Astral Gateway appears.

Presumably that's 1 additional minute after the initial 4D4 minutes... meaning if you take a "the 4D4 begins after you spend the 8 ISP and begin the 5 minute counter" approach, that your power would basically end as soon as you opened the gateway. You'd catch a glimpse as you got sucked back into your body...

THAT ACTUALLY SOUNDS COOL AND SHOULD BE WHAT HAPPENS.

It's not as crippling as it might seem: even though magic doesn't appear to get the range/duration boosts at ley lines anymore, RUE 366 affirms that psi still does, so double duration is 10/level for astral projection, meaning even a 1st level character might, even if you began the 4D4 counter and 10/level counter simultaneously, have a 50/50 shot at being able to project themselves before the power ran out, and it would even be feasible to get some 'gate time' in.

Plus with RUE giving free ISP at ley lines now, 1d6+1 means instead of 8 it's only gonna cost between 1 and 6 ISP. So if it took a few attempts, it would be just fine...

I think that would make Astral Projection a lot more interesting, and unless it actually says somewhere you begin the 5/level counter AFTER (and not coinciding with) beginning the 4D4 power, it's arguably a canonical interpretation...

    Re the "Mind Melter" example of spending 10 weeks on the plane at 2nd level... here's the problem with that example... 10 weeks being 10 minutes doesn't take into account the 1 minute it takes to open the Astral Gateway, right? During that time, your 10 minute counter should shrink to 9, right? Limiting you to 9 weeks?

    "Could spend" isn't necessarily a maximum, so a 2nd level mind melter ON A LEY LINE (20 minute activation) using the above calculations, might for example roll 9 on 4D4, and spend half their time prepping the power and the portal, and the 2n half actually through it. It's in fact the ONLY legitimate explanation. Well, that or a 50% boost from being near a ley line. 15 minutes would also work: 4 minutes to activate the power (lucky roll) 1 to open the portal, and you'd have 10 left.

Anyway getting back to the spell, we have to decide: does it work "exactly like" the power in that you have to opt to concentrate 1 minute to open an Astral Gateway (presumably a kind of dimensional portal that shifters could sense, though perhaps one only astral beings can go through?) or does it just teleport them onto the plane and prevent coexistence with the material world, in which case it doesn't function the same way?

Here's an interesting tactic: a shifter could cast "Close Rift" (it doesn't cost them permanent PPE anymore) to try and trap an astral projector in the plane... what would that do? Would it sever their cord? If they spend 1 minute trying to re-open the gateway, would that be 1 minute in real world (1 week to open on their side) or 1 minute in astral terms (less than a second on our side).

Come to think of it.... why is there no ISP cost for opening these gates? IMO doing it for free seems odd. Even though the "Astral Portal" spell is one of the cheaper ways to tear through dimensional barriers (close competitors come from Mystic Portal and Nightlands Portal and Dolphins) it's still pricier than many spells...

- - -

I think maybe the 8 ISP for leaving your body should perhaps be paid a 2nd time for opening that portal. I think that would help make the Astral Plane a lot more mysterious in Rifts, make it a lot harder for minor psychics to get there. RUE 289 (step 4) gives ME+2d6+1d6/level so you're guaranteed at least 6 ISP, so minor psychics may not have enough ISP to activate a lot of minor psi anyway, even if they do start with it.

Perhaps ley lines are exceptions to that though. In terms of paying a lump sum cost beyond your max ISP (since I don't think they can store ISP beyond their max like how spellcasters can store 3x max PPE for a little) I think the 2-7 they get from a line per melee (which they MUST use or lose...) should count in addition to that...

So I think that if you need to pay 8 ISP but you only have max of 6 ISP that a ley line would always just barely guarantee you could pay the piper... to begin your 4D4 prep to exit your body anyway. Unfortunately even a lucky roll (max bonus 7 ISP) would NOT be enough to pay the power's cost a 2nd time, which is what I'm suggesting would make sense if we had to invent some kind of cost for opening a portal.

If not a full 8 ISP, I think at least a token 1 or 2 ISP cost to open the Astral Gateway would make sense. This guarantees that ley lines would always make it possible (2 free ISP per melee) even if you used up all your ISP to initially activate the power. 3 or 4 might make it a little more interesting though... like sometimes you roll too low on your free bonus ISP (it's not a fixed amount like PPE) and there's not enough to open the gate... doesn't that sound like more fun? 4 seems about right since it's half of 8.

- - -

But what to do in the case of the spell? Pay another 10 PPE? Or a token 1 PPE?

Or is the question rendered moot because the spell DOES operate different? If it teleports your body right into the plane, you wouldn't need to open a gateway, except perhaps to get back. But if there is no open portal providing a path back to your body... how would your cord stay connected? Perhaps the spell opens the portal for you (no minute required) but forces you immediately through it?

- - -

I could see Psi-Net banning those with Astral Projection from making Astral Gateways, since that could allow creatures access to Earth from the astral planes. Anybody with those abilities would probably be under stricter observation than psychics with comparative non-threatening powers like Bio-Regeneration or Sense Evil. Even though the "they can move through walls and spy on us" SEEMS like the bigger threat, IMO the Astral Gateway aspect of the psi power seems much more significant of a concern.
dreicunan
Hero
Posts: 1344
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:49 am

Re: Astral Projection Techno-Wizard Portals for Muggles

Unread post by dreicunan »

Magic gets a range and duration boost from ley lines. That errata was published a long time ago.
Axelmania wrote:You of course, being the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not.
Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.
User avatar
Axelmania
Knight
Posts: 5523
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:13 pm

Re: Astral Projection Techno-Wizard Portals for Muggles

Unread post by Axelmania »

Ah that's right, page 12/19 of https://www.palladiumbooks.com/images/D ... Eratta.pdf

I'd noticed that (or had it pointed out to me) recently too but forgot all over again =/

Given later down that page it says:
    Spells (spoken) Rituals (performed)
..
"of a spell by 50%" I guess RAW wouldn't apply to a ritual? :( Reviewing RMBp163 it went from "spells" for the first 2 tiers to "incantations" for the 3rd, if that means anything... like maybe rituals only benefited from a nexus and required the spoken word?
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”