Stupid question about Cobbler Goblins

[SolCannibal]

If they are cobbler goblins why do they get "an aptitude for woodworking and a +10% bonus in carpentry and boat building"? (also, some of their magic involves manipulating wood)

Why call them that in the first place? Any suggestions for alternative names?

Making them minor MDC beings like faerie folk in Rifts Earth, how would you people feel about it?

As an aside, has anyone explored in their games why such "atavisms" only occur among goblins but not hobs or kobolds?
Curious if other GMs or players might have tinkered with those things in their own tables and how.

edit: little aside, where do i find the "Mend Wood" spell mentioned in the Cobbler's write-up (in CB and PF both)? Tried to look for its description and costs to compare with other similar spells (Mend Stone & Metal) but simply could not find it on either my RMB or PF when i last checked.

[Daniel Stoker]

To be able to make wooden shoes and sandals I guess?


Daniel Stoker

[SolCannibal]

To be able to make wooden shoes and sandals I guess?


Daniel Stoker

Yeah, it's doable, but it still takes looking at things from a pretty specific angle to justify, no?
And i'm still curious about the boat-builidng skills.

On an aside, I'm considering using some other name for them, to be more descriptive and to make things in Rifts Earth a bit more independent from Palladium (kind of like RUE replaced the PF dragons with brand new ones). Any suggestions? So far some that crossed my mind were "Keeper" and "Remnant" because they "retain" some of the old faerie folk powers.

[kaid]

If they are cobbler goblins why do they get "an aptitude for woodworking and a +10% bonus in carpentry and boat building"? (also, some of their magic involves manipulating wood)

Why call them that in the first place? Any suggestions for alternative names?

Making them minor MDC beings like faerie folk in Rifts Earth, how would you people feel about it?

As an aside, has anyone explored in their games why such "atavisms" only occur among goblins but not hobs or kobolds?
Curious if other GMs or players might have tinkered with those things in their own tables and how.

edit: little aside, where do i find the "Mend Wood" spell mentioned in the Cobbler's write-up (in CB and PF both)? Tried to look for its description and costs to compare with other similar spells (Mend Stone & Metal) but simply could not find it on either my RMB or PF when i last checked.

Got to have the skills to make clogs!

[kaid]

To be able to make wooden shoes and sandals I guess?


Daniel Stoker

Yeah, it's doable, but it still takes looking at things from a pretty specific angle to justify, no?
And i'm still curious about the boat-builidng skills.

On an aside, I'm considering using some other name for them, to be more descriptive and to make things in Rifts Earth a bit more independent from Palladium (kind of like RUE replaced the PF dragons with brand new ones). Any suggestions? So far some that crossed my mind were "Keeper" and "Remnant" because they "retain" some of the old faerie folk powers.

If you ever saw how large my feet are a clog sized for me basically is a boat for a goblin.

[SolCannibal]

To be able to make wooden shoes and sandals I guess?


Daniel Stoker

Yeah, it's doable, but it still takes looking at things from a pretty specific angle to justify, no?
And i'm still curious about the boat-builidng skills.

If you ever saw how large my feet are a clog sized for me basically is a boat for a goblin.

That would sort of explain why they have a bonus for boat-building but none for their handling, i guess.

Now i'm thinking of a Cobbler that is an actual shoemaker, selling a variety of clogs from different pre-Rifts, contemporary or D-bee cultures; dutch klomps, japanese geta, swedish träskor and so on. Knowledge of any traditional folk dances (that might or not attract the curiosity of faerie folk) optional. Could fit in the Magic Zone city the PC group is currently based at.

[Father Goose]

A Cobbler is "one who cobbles."
As a verb, cobble can refer to the act of making or repairing shoes, but it also means to 'mend coarsely' or 'assemble hastily.'
So to me, their name and bonuses reflect that their fae history was that of builders and repairmen who quickly assembled or repaired wooden items. Similar to the story of the Shoemaker and the Elves, or the stories of gremlins who take things apart, rearrange them, sabotage, etc.
Seems to make perfect sense, in all honesty.
Even their ability to shapechange into animals fits the above explanation as it allows them to hide. Who would suspect a stray cat who came in through an open window of being the one to build or sabatage something in your workshop?

[Daniel Stoker]

Well after a lot of going down rabbit holes... yeah there were a number of different types of medieval shoes that used wood for the soles and many of the holds used for shoes were also made of wood, so yeah, the wood working makes sense for a cobbler.


Daniel Stoker

[SolCannibal]

A Cobbler is "one who cobbles."
As a verb, cobble can refer to the act of making or repairing shoes, but it also means to 'mend coarsely' or 'assemble hastily.'
So to me, their name and bonuses reflect that their fae history was that of builders and repairmen who quickly assembled or repaired wooden items. Similar to the story of the Shoemaker and the Elves, or the stories of gremlins who take things apart, rearrange them, sabotage, etc.
Seems to make perfect sense, in all honesty.

Those other meaning of cobble do go a long way to explain things indeed. I knew of the brothers grimm story but it felt weird because, well, it's not like shoemaking on itself makes one think of boatbuilding, carpentry & wood manipulation. Now with the image of "ancestral goblins" as builders & repairmen of coarse craftsmanship all pieces fit in.

Even their ability to shapechange into animals fits the above explanation as it allows them to hide. Who would suspect a stray cat who came in through an open window of being the one to build or sabatage something in your workshop?

It even gives context their loss/decadence, might be said, as one of the goblins current cultural traits seems to be a general dislike of hard work, exactly one of the things their atrophying fae nature is supposed to enable.

At least until some enterprising group of cobblers hits on some other niche to help stimulate their magical skillset back into activity or somesuch, that is. Not that i see it happening anytime soon on Rifts Earth, that is.

Well after a lot of going down rabbit holes... yeah there were a number of different types of medieval shoes that used wood for the soles and many of the holds used for shoes were also made of wood, so yeah, the wood working makes sense for a cobbler.


Daniel Stoker

The boat-building that is kind of a funny one, but i guess goes from "what other crafts using wood do we have in the book" logic possibly. Father Goose did go a long way into making an argument about how everything fits together.

Though i still feel like coming up with alternate names for Cobbler, originating from goblin cultures in either different worlds/dimensions or their mixing up among the varied & messy masses that fill the population centers of Rifts Earth.

[glitterboy2098]

i think the Doylist explanation that the name came from them being inspired by stories of fairies making shoes and/or carved goods is probably true.

but if you want a watsonian (aka 'in universe') justification, i can think of a couple different possibilities.

in welsh a 'Coblyn' was a type of goblin that lived underground and used its magic to create knocking noises and cause mischif like causing caveins. (basically the same as a Tommyknocker, and IRL likely a folklore explanation to explain the noises that occur underground in mineshafts.) it wouldn't be hard to see the name being adapted. especially if the term 'goblin' had taken on a more general definition.

building off the boat and woodworking aspect, a Cobble is a type of klinker-built wooden boat built in wales and scotland. perhapos goblins once used such boats themselves (since a normal sized cobble would be roughly equal to a longship and/or Cog for goblins)

cobble's are also the term for certain types of hard rounded rocks. their use as road surface is part of why the term for shoemaker's is 'cobbler'. historically though such stones were used as tools, particularly as hammer stones used to knap flint cobble's into knives and axes, and as the heads of clubs. lithic tools of this kind, when found in later ages, were often seen as of supernatural origin and possessing magical power (such as the Thunderstone folklore elements). since Goblins on their own would appear to exist in a neolithic level of technology, it could be that people saw them using such tools (with the magic users, who generally are the leaders being fairly prominent) and applied their term for the stone to the goblins.


personally i'm fond of the last one, as it feels more natural and would apply to other worlds thanks to translation convention, unlike the others.

[Father Goose]

i think the Doylist explanation that the name came from them being inspired by stories of fairies making shoes and/or carved goods is probably true.

but if you want a watsonian (aka 'in universe') justification, i can think of a couple different possibilities.

in welsh a 'Coblyn' was a type of goblin that lived underground and used its magic to create knocking noises and cause mischif like causing caveins. (basically the same as a Tommyknocker, and IRL likely a folklore explanation to explain the noises that occur underground in mineshafts.) it wouldn't be hard to see the name being adapted. especially if the term 'goblin' had taken on a more general definition.

building off the boat and woodworking aspect, a Cobble is a type of klinker-built wooden boat built in wales and scotland. perhapos goblins once used such boats themselves (since a normal sized cobble would be roughly equal to a longship and/or Cog for goblins)

cobble's are also the term for certain types of hard rounded rocks. their use as road surface is part of why the term for shoemaker's is 'cobbler'. historically though such stones were used as tools, particularly as hammer stones used to knap flint cobble's into knives and axes, and as the heads of clubs. lithic tools of this kind, when found in later ages, were often seen as of supernatural origin and possessing magical power (such as the Thunderstone folklore elements). since Goblins on their own would appear to exist in a neolithic level of technology, it could be that people saw them using such tools (with the magic users, who generally are the leaders being fairly prominent) and applied their term for the stone to the goblins.


personally i'm fond of the last one, as it feels more natural and would apply to other worlds thanks to translation convention, unlike the others.

Good stuff here. Personally, I think I will take all of the reasons given in this thread and use them as rumors associated with the race that can be learned with Lore. Being uncertain to me makes them even more fascinating.

[SolCannibal]

i think the Doylist explanation that the name came from them being inspired by stories of fairies making shoes and/or carved goods is probably true.

but if you want a watsonian (aka 'in universe') justification, i can think of a couple different possibilities.

in welsh a 'Coblyn' was a type of goblin that lived underground and used its magic to create knocking noises and cause mischif like causing caveins. (basically the same as a Tommyknocker, and IRL likely a folklore explanation to explain the noises that occur underground in mineshafts.) it wouldn't be hard to see the name being adapted. especially if the term 'goblin' had taken on a more general definition.

building off the boat and woodworking aspect, a Cobble is a type of klinker-built wooden boat built in wales and scotland. perhapos goblins once used such boats themselves (since a normal sized cobble would be roughly equal to a longship and/or Cog for goblins)

cobble's are also the term for certain types of hard rounded rocks. their use as road surface is part of why the term for shoemaker's is 'cobbler'. historically though such stones were used as tools, particularly as hammer stones used to knap flint cobble's into knives and axes, and as the heads of clubs. lithic tools of this kind, when found in later ages, were often seen as of supernatural origin and possessing magical power (such as the Thunderstone folklore elements). since Goblins on their own would appear to exist in a neolithic level of technology, it could be that people saw them using such tools (with the magic users, who generally are the leaders being fairly prominent) and applied their term for the stone to the goblins.


personally i'm fond of the last one, as it feels more natural and would apply to other worlds thanks to translation convention, unlike the others.

It's a good indeed, though it would take some tweaking as the cobbler's powers & skills relate to wood/plants, not stone per se, but a small one.
Truth be told i have toyed with such variations (wood, stone, metal) as a way to make up some minor subgroups/twists on already known Dbees, such as in the case of Nhur Dwarves, for example.

[Natasha]

If they are cobbler goblins why do they get "an aptitude for woodworking and a +10% bonus in carpentry and boat building"? (also, some of their magic involves manipulating wood)

Why call them that in the first place? Any suggestions for alternative names?

The woodworking aptitude is not a part of the original cobbler.

Cobblers retain some of the goblin's faerie nature. They have a limited spellcasting ability of faeries and can morph into small animals. Mend wood/clay is among the spells they can cast, but the aptitude is for woodworking is not there.

[Library Ogre]

My headcanon:

The original "goblins" were made from a type of faerie known as "cobblers"... leprechaun-sized fae who made wonderful shoes. The process that the ancient wizard used to turn them into goblins warped their magic (nowadays, when it appears), leading to their predilection for dark shapes and the nature of their magic.

[Axelmania]

I wonder if we can work in Salome's planet of Demon Goblins (Wormwood) into the headcanon somewhere.

I seem to remember another kind of Goblin variant but nothing specific ATM... might be thinking of something else...

I wonder if I'm just thinking of the dreamdancing "Domhain Dorca" variant in the Rifter? Hm... I feel like there's a 3rd time I'm forgetting though...