Wearing multiple sets of armor

[Curbludgeon]

Just how much armor can be simultaneously stacked upon one character?

This seems like something potentially rife for abuse, and something better suited to a de facto ruling than, say, 4 missiles auto-hitting. Let's leave magic out of it for the moment, since there are arguments for enchanting ever-shrinking swaths of cloth.

The NG-X32 Coyote (NG2, p76) can be worn under clothing, as likely can a couple of other light NG PA. At a minimum a overcoat like the Branaghan can be worn over that, in possible addition to various combat pants. Also, the Stalker suit can be worn as an undersuit.

There are robots that can be piloted by characters in power armor. As an example, the Triax EIR-15 Manned Gargoyle Bot (Triax1, p 93) can be piloted by a character in the 450 pound Super Trooper Power Armor. Presumably the much lighter Coyote could be made to fit. Would anyone argue that a character with both RPA:Elite skills should be able to use them simultaneously? Is there any sort of errata dealing with that?

Three levels of protection are clearly available to be worn simultaneously. Is there an example of four levels being worn? I could see a character wearing a Stalker suit, then a Naruni Stealth Suit, then a stripped-down Super Trooper, then a Gargoyle Bot. While my inclination would be to give that character a number of combat penalties which can be offset by Operators synching all the tech up, I'm both curious if there's an easy way to make 5 levels without Faerie-Bot/Zentradi shenanigans, and what other examples of this are found in the books.

[guardiandashi]

as a guideline you normally should not be able to wear multiple sets of armor simultaneously.
now there are some exceptions where you may be able to get away with it.

as an example that comes to mind.
something like the extremely lightweight (thin) armors may be able to be worn under "standard armor"
for example some plainclothes armor, the blind warrior woman body suits, and similar. Could likely be worn under standard body armor.
something like the dusters, cloaks and similar could likely be worn over standard armor if properly sized.

most power armor is going to prevent wearing anything but the thin/light armors as undersuits, or prohibit wearing ANY armor under them, and wearing things like dusters or capes over them is highly problematic as well.

now robot vehicles you likely could wear "standard" body armors while piloting them in at least some cases, but doing so may cause penalties due to loss of dexterity and in most cases wearing power armor while piloting a robot vehicle would be right out, unless its specifically set up to do so.

as an example of what I mean.
look at the Macross anime's yes the pilots of the veritechs often wear flight suits or body armor, but they use a sit down cockpit that really doesn't have a lot of extra room, (much like modern jet fighters) so there really wouldn't be a way to wear heavy or power armor without extensive penalties.

as another example on the other hand, if you had a robot vehicle using a piloting system, similar to the ones used in the pacific rim movies, then a properly configured power armor, and cockpit (or one where the power armor "jacked in" and redirected the control outputs from the power armor to the robot vehicle) then it could work.

[kaid]

I would assume most people using power armor probably are wearing a thin flight suit like the new NG cloth armor line. The glitterboy had a specific flight suit armor for their pilots to wear inside their armor so there is canon examples of power armor pilots wearing at least light armor while in their unit.

[torjones]

Just how much armor can be simultaneously stacked upon one character?

Do you have "Armor Undies?" You can wear that.
Do you have "Concealable Body Armor" like modern kevlar? You can wear that too.
Do you have "Armored Clothing?" Sure, why not?
Do you have EBA/PA/Robot? You can wear one of them too.
I'd say that unless it's a really big robot vehicle, or a larger vehicle, you can't wear EBA or smaller PA suits inside, but I don't think anyone would deny that you can wear EBA inside an APC. PA like SAMAS might be harder to wear, and I doubt I'd allow someone to sit in the pilot's seat while wearing a CS SAMAS. (Flying Titan, maybe... but probably not.)

Basically, does it make sense that a person would be able to wear underwear under concealable body armor? If so, then anything takes that same place, should be allowed. If it makes sense, allow it. Of course, once the players start doing it, the bad guys are going to start doing it too.

[kaid]

Just how much armor can be simultaneously stacked upon one character?

Do you have "Armor Undies?" You can wear that.
Do you have "Concealable Body Armor" like modern kevlar? You can wear that too.
Do you have "Armored Clothing?" Sure, why not?
Do you have EBA/PA/Robot? You can wear one of them too.
I'd say that unless it's a really big robot vehicle, or a larger vehicle, you can't wear EBA or smaller PA suits inside, but I don't think anyone would deny that you can wear EBA inside an APC. PA like SAMAS might be harder to wear, and I doubt I'd allow someone to sit in the pilot's seat while wearing a CS SAMAS. (Flying Titan, maybe... but probably not.)

Basically, does it make sense that a person would be able to wear underwear under concealable body armor? If so, then anything takes that same place, should be allowed. If it makes sense, allow it. Of course, once the players start doing it, the bad guys are going to start doing it too.

Also any movement penalties would be cumulative. At some point you have the 4 layers of cloths in a snow suit effect that sure you are warm and protected but your best movement speed is waddling!


Still basic armored jump suit is basically like a highly advanced set of long johns. No reason you could not wear that under something without much issues its basically just clothing. Also we know the armored duster was first sold as part of a body armor set so clearly that going over armor many types of armor is not a big issue.

Also I think it can be assumed anybody in power armor has some kind of flight suit very light body armor on under it. Having to ditch a disabled mech is not something you want to do sans at least some kind of protective wear.


As with anything use common sense also as cheesy as some of this may sound the actual effect is really not that bad in a world that has dragons as a player option at level 1. The armored cloth stuff is usually 20mdc or less and the armored coat is a bit more. Stuff that would help you from instantly dying if your main armor is penetrated but if you are down to your MDC long johns it is time to get out as soon as you can. Most of those options are good for a 1 or 2 shots worth of protection they can save your life but you don't want to hang around in combat for long if you are reduced to that. They are also good in town to help give you enough protection that a sneak attack is less likely to kill you so you at least have time to dodge/run away/hide.

[RockJock]

I always took the rule as saying no stacking, but we always ignored that where it makes logical sense. Basically I follow the above. The armored duster adds armor and a penalty to whatever you are wearing. A skinsuit type body armor does the same.

Going back to the old GB Pilot suit our rule of thumb was as follows: 1) All penalties stack for armor. 2) Power Armor cannot be worn with anything other then a cloth or skin suit (so GB Pilot armor is ok, same with Blind Warrior Woman Armor, or something like Plains Clothes jumpsuit), it just doesn't work. 3) Actual robots allow the the pilot to wear whatever armor they want (assuming it physically fits in the pilot's compartment). Not a solid book rule, just the way we always play it consistency wise.

[Axelmania]

What you gotta do is be a gargoyle wearing plate armor with a phase field built into it piloting a giant spaceship.

But that gargoyle is actually a robot with a naruni field built into it.

Meanwhile, as you pilot it, inside you are wearing a Super Trooper suit with 2nd naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are wearing an MDC jump suit with a 3rd Naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are a cyborg with your own personal built-in 4th Naruni field. But you also have an amulet of Armor of Ithan.

[Father Goose]

What you gotta do is be a gargoyle wearing plate armor with a phase field built into it piloting a giant spaceship.

But that gargoyle is actually a robot with a naruni field built into it.

Meanwhile, as you pilot it, inside you are wearing a Super Trooper suit with 2nd naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are wearing an MDC jump suit with a 3rd Naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are a cyborg with your own personal built-in 4th Naruni field. But you also have an amulet of Armor of Ithan.

But inside the cyborg you are actually an artificial intelligence in a nanite collective that produces it's own Naruni-style field overlaid on its MDC housing that is self replicating and regenerative.

[Curbludgeon]

I think the matter can be approached as one of common sense, or of increasing silliness. The former makes especial sense regarding light power armors. The NG Coyote example is pretty clear that one of overcoat/jumpsuit/fatigues can be worn, with a Stalker undersuit. With the next-to-heaviest overcoat there wouldn't even be movement penalties, and the character would have 168 mdc. At 142lb, and with a forearm laser and vibroknife, the Coyote should likely be considered the heaviest power armor that could fit under an overcoat. A search for light-weight PA turned up the following:

Japan: ATPA-25 Power Spy (90lb)
Black Market: Mirage (140)
Naruni Wave 2: Stealth (100)
Arzno: Jackrabbit (110)
NG2: Night Reaper (124)

If there's something I missed pretty please share.

Making a nesting doll of Power Armors and Robots, however, can scarcely help but be goofy. I've been trying to find power armor/robots that are sized for larger creatures, with limited success:

Triax/Mindwerks: several Gurgoyle-sized options. There is a Gargoyle PA, but the Gargoyle EIR is too big to fit.
Africa: The Phoenix Power Armor can be sized for Gurgoyles, and is light enough that it could arguably be worn inside a 2 Gurgoyle Robot modified from Pilot/Gunner/Gargoylite supervisor to Power Armored Pilot
Megaverse in Flames: The BEW Chaos Trooper Armor can fit a Gargoyle or Gurgoyle, and is a relatively unobtrusive half-suit, but requires blood and ppe to function.
Robotech: Zentradi ships are designed for 30-35" tall pilots, which is 5-15 feet taller than most of these combos. A quick look pulled up the Queadluun-Rau Female Power Armor as a solid higher-end choice. Note the mdc on these things is slight.

It's obviously silly, but if one removes the Gargoyle EIR's wings and tail that would be a nested undersuit/pilot/Super Trooper/EIR/Queadluun-Rau. Starting with a Gurgoyle drone instead allows a choice of Phoenix Armor, G-10, or G-20 (provided one strips out the spikes and maybe mini-missiles) fitting either inside the Zentradi suit, or the modified cabin of a G-40 Super Bot. Something worth noting for anyone clutching their pearls: excluding the Super Bot this is a combined Main Body mdc of 800 or so, while a Hellbuster cyborg is ~1100.

In addition to any help you champions might have to offer with lightweight PA and oversized PA suggestions, if anyone can think of a smaller-than-human species that is known to pilot something human-sized that would extend things another layer. One idea might be a Lemurian Kelp Bio-Armor over one of the larger Faeries, or with bionics or the Techno-Merge super power it could just be robots the whole way down.

[Axelmania]

What you gotta do is be a gargoyle wearing plate armor with a phase field built into it piloting a giant spaceship.

But that gargoyle is actually a robot with a naruni field built into it.

Meanwhile, as you pilot it, inside you are wearing a Super Trooper suit with 2nd naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are wearing an MDC jump suit with a 3rd Naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are a cyborg with your own personal built-in 4th Naruni field. But you also have an amulet of Armor of Ithan.

But inside the cyborg you are actually an artificial intelligence in a nanite collective that produces it's own Naruni-style field overlaid on its MDC housing that is self replicating and regenerative.

You have intrigued me, where is stats for AI nanite collective, this Splicers?

[kaid]

I think the matter can be approached as one of common sense, or of increasing silliness. The former makes especial sense regarding light power armors. The NG Coyote example is pretty clear that one of overcoat/jumpsuit/fatigues can be worn, with a Stalker undersuit. With the next-to-heaviest overcoat there wouldn't even be movement penalties, and the character would have 168 mdc. At 142lb, and with a forearm laser and vibroknife, the Coyote should likely be considered the heaviest power armor that could fit under an overcoat. A search for light-weight PA turned up the following:

Japan: ATPA-25 Power Spy (90lb)
Black Market: Mirage (140)
Naruni Wave 2: Stealth (100)
Arzno: Jackrabbit (110)
NG2: Night Reaper (124)

If there's something I missed pretty please share.

Making a nesting doll of Power Armors and Robots, however, can scarcely help but be goofy. I've been trying to find power armor/robots that are sized for larger creatures, with limited success:

Triax/Mindwerks: several Gurgoyle-sized options. There is a Gargoyle PA, but the Gargoyle EIR is too big to fit.
Africa: The Phoenix Power Armor can be sized for Gurgoyles, and is light enough that it could arguably be worn inside a 2 Gurgoyle Robot modified from Pilot/Gunner/Gargoylite supervisor to Power Armored Pilot
Megaverse in Flames: The BEW Chaos Trooper Armor can fit a Gargoyle or Gurgoyle, and is a relatively unobtrusive half-suit, but requires blood and ppe to function.
Robotech: Zentradi ships are designed for 30-35" tall pilots, which is 5-15 feet taller than most of these combos. A quick look pulled up the Queadluun-Rau Female Power Armor as a solid higher-end choice. Note the mdc on these things is slight.

It's obviously silly, but if one removes the Gargoyle EIR's wings and tail that would be a nested undersuit/pilot/Super Trooper/EIR/Queadluun-Rau. Starting with a Gurgoyle drone instead allows a choice of Phoenix Armor, G-10, or G-20 (provided one strips out the spikes and maybe mini-missiles) fitting either inside the Zentradi suit, or the modified cabin of a G-40 Super Bot. Something worth noting for anyone clutching their pearls: excluding the Super Bot this is a combined Main Body mdc of 800 or so, while a Hellbuster cyborg is ~1100.

In addition to any help you champions might have to offer with lightweight PA and oversized PA suggestions, if anyone can think of a smaller-than-human species that is known to pilot something human-sized that would extend things another layer. One idea might be a Lemurian Kelp Bio-Armor over one of the larger Faeries, or with bionics or the Techno-Merge super power it could just be robots the whole way down.

A faerie bot driving a robot vehicle would be pretty amusing. Other people asking how does he reach the pedals!

[Father Goose]

What you gotta do is be a gargoyle wearing plate armor with a phase field built into it piloting a giant spaceship.

But that gargoyle is actually a robot with a naruni field built into it.

Meanwhile, as you pilot it, inside you are wearing a Super Trooper suit with 2nd naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are wearing an MDC jump suit with a 3rd Naruni field built into it.

Inside that, you are a cyborg with your own personal built-in 4th Naruni field. But you also have an amulet of Armor of Ithan.

But inside the cyborg you are actually an artificial intelligence in a nanite collective that produces it's own Naruni-style field overlaid on its MDC housing that is self replicating and regenerative.

You have intrigued me, where is stats for AI nanite collective, this Splicers?

Honestly, it just seemed to fit. I don't know if there is stats for such a thing, though it seems like something that would be possible based on things that do exist in the Megaverse. The closest thing I recall specifically reading is in Rifter #37, the Nanobot Hive. Still, with several instances of AI creating a 'hive mind' and multiple places where nanotech is explored, putting the two together doesn't seem far fetched.

[13eowulf]

I think the matter can be approached as one of common sense, or of increasing silliness. The former makes especial sense regarding light power armors. The NG Coyote example is pretty clear that one of overcoat/jumpsuit/fatigues can be worn, with a Stalker undersuit. With the next-to-heaviest overcoat there wouldn't even be movement penalties, and the character would have 168 mdc. At 142lb, and with a forearm laser and vibroknife, the Coyote should likely be considered the heaviest power armor that could fit under an overcoat. A search for light-weight PA turned up the following:

Japan: ATPA-25 Power Spy (90lb)
Black Market: Mirage (140)
Naruni Wave 2: Stealth (100)
Arzno: Jackrabbit (110)
NG2: Night Reaper (124)

If there's something I missed pretty please share.

Making a nesting doll of Power Armors and Robots, however, can scarcely help but be goofy. I've been trying to find power armor/robots that are sized for larger creatures, with limited success:

Triax/Mindwerks: several Gurgoyle-sized options. There is a Gargoyle PA, but the Gargoyle EIR is too big to fit.
Africa: The Phoenix Power Armor can be sized for Gurgoyles, and is light enough that it could arguably be worn inside a 2 Gurgoyle Robot modified from Pilot/Gunner/Gargoylite supervisor to Power Armored Pilot
Megaverse in Flames: The BEW Chaos Trooper Armor can fit a Gargoyle or Gurgoyle, and is a relatively unobtrusive half-suit, but requires blood and ppe to function.
Robotech: Zentradi ships are designed for 30-35" tall pilots, which is 5-15 feet taller than most of these combos. A quick look pulled up the Queadluun-Rau Female Power Armor as a solid higher-end choice. Note the mdc on these things is slight.

It's obviously silly, but if one removes the Gargoyle EIR's wings and tail that would be a nested undersuit/pilot/Super Trooper/EIR/Queadluun-Rau. Starting with a Gurgoyle drone instead allows a choice of Phoenix Armor, G-10, or G-20 (provided one strips out the spikes and maybe mini-missiles) fitting either inside the Zentradi suit, or the modified cabin of a G-40 Super Bot. Something worth noting for anyone clutching their pearls: excluding the Super Bot this is a combined Main Body mdc of 800 or so, while a Hellbuster cyborg is ~1100.

In addition to any help you champions might have to offer with lightweight PA and oversized PA suggestions, if anyone can think of a smaller-than-human species that is known to pilot something human-sized that would extend things another layer. One idea might be a Lemurian Kelp Bio-Armor over one of the larger Faeries, or with bionics or the Techno-Merge super power it could just be robots the whole way down.

A faerie bot driving a robot vehicle would be pretty amusing. Other people asking how does he reach the pedals!

This was the first "Big Bad" a threw at players my first time GMing. A Faerie Bot, who had a man-sized suit he could park his sphere in the chest of and control, which in turn piloted a mecha.

[Shorty Lickens]

I'm ok with the following -

1: Normal human in normal vehicle or robot vehicle wearing heavy EBA or a very slim PA, like the terrain hopper without attachments.
2: Normal human in very large PA like glitter boy or Triax Ulti-Max wearing very slim EBA or armored clothing.

Obviously a pilot wearing less than armored clothing with a helmet is freakin stupid or crazy. Juicers come to mind.

[eliakon]

The answer is easy.
You can wear as much armor stacked on one character as you wish for the GM to be stacking on NPCs.


After all they are just as intelligent as you are and can make the same realizations you do and will be just as interested in living as you are.
Thus anything you do, they should be doing too.
I call this "The Gander Rule"

[Curbludgeon]

The Kittani Destroyer in Underseas is Kydian-sized, which would be enough for a light PA to fit inside of it. Whether or not the TW features could be accessed is undecided, yet unlikely. The main gun would have to be stowed and the grenade tubes removed should the 13 foot PA get shoved inside something else.

Other than the Overlord Power Armor in WB2 and the Phoenix in WB4, are there any other PAs for Kydians?