Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

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The ineffible GM
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Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by The ineffible GM »

I recently had a player ask if there was a way in rifts for their human character to somehow get genetically modified to become an elf.

I see no reason that a gene splicer couldn't do it. I mean, good luck convincing them. But if one wanted to, it seems to me that they could.

Thoughts?
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by dreicunan »

Interesting question. They could certainly make them look like an elf and have any abilities that an elf has naturally, but would they actually make you completely an elf at the genetic level? That seems a stretch even for them. He could always find that one magic circle that makes you an elf.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by eliakon »

The ineffible GM wrote:I recently had a player ask if there was a way in rifts for their human character to somehow get genetically modified to become an elf.

I see no reason that a gene splicer couldn't do it. I mean, good luck convincing them. But if one wanted to, it seems to me that they could.

Thoughts?

I am not sure that they could genetically modify you to become an Elf.
I am 100% sure that is possible with magic yes.
But I am less sure that it is possible to do that with out using magic.
You could be turned into something that was basically an Elf but you would still be "modified human" for purposes of things like magical detection or analyzing your soul.
Just my .02 credits there.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by The ineffible GM »

eliakon wrote:You could be turned into something that was basically an Elf but you would still be "modified human" for purposes of things like magical detection or analyzing your soul.
Just my .02 credits there.
It's your game, do what is best for your particular game.

That's an interesting thought, that on a genetic level you would be an elf, indistinguishable from any other elf from a medical perspective, but that magic or psionics would show an aura of a human with very strange alterations.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by MadGreenSon »

The ineffible GM wrote:I recently had a player ask if there was a way in rifts for their human character to somehow get genetically modified to become an elf.

I see no reason that a gene splicer couldn't do it. I mean, good luck convincing them. But if one wanted to, it seems to me that they could.

Thoughts?

First thing: the only reason we don't call what the Gene Splicers can do magic is that the books specifically say it isn't. Because it might as well be.

Consider also that the Gene Splicers have shown the ability to alter and improve the Brodkil, who may be scrub tier as far as demons go, but are still considered supernatural beings of a sort.

Also take into account every other instance of Gene Splicer nonsense.

Taking it all into account, I would say that if they were inclined to do so for some reason, a Gene Splicer could either turn a human into an elf or change the human into something so elf-like that you'd need Gene Splicer tech to tell the difference up to and including full reproductive compatibility with elves and not humans and suffering elf side effects with tattoo magic.

Keep in mind though that this doesn't sound like something that a Gene Splicer would do, but I'm sure they could.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Shark_Force »

can't recall for sure, but can the auto-g copy an elf? if so, i'd say the gene splicers could definitely turn someone into an elf, at least from a purely biological/genetic perspective (i don't know that they could make you culturally an elf, and i rather doubt that inasmuch as there is such a thing as a 'soul' in palladium that the gene splicers could duplicate that).

my gut feeling is that yes, the gene splicers probably could turn someone into an elf (physically at least), and for them it would probably almost be child's play.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by taalismn »

I rather think they could, but from a Gene Splicer perspective, elves are pretty pedestrian compared to what Gene Splicers are CAPABLE of.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

The ineffible GM wrote:I recently had a player ask if there was a way in rifts for their human character to somehow get genetically modified to become an elf.

I see no reason that a gene splicer couldn't do it. I mean, good luck convincing them. But if one wanted to, it seems to me that they could.

Thoughts?

While they could mimic the characteristics. They would not be a true elf. That would require replacing the whole gene not modifying the gene. There is always a little something of what they started with left in gene splicing.


To become a elf they would need to do a freaky Friday body swap. Have the mind/spirt of the charter put in the body of an elf.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Considering that changes are on the DNA level and they are masters of evolution and mutation it is very likely.

I mean the ability to splice ANY creature together with an incompatible one and it be done so well it can be passed on (splicers choice) to off spring?

Imagine if A genesplicer got ahold of a human supremacist?

It would not have to be anything extreme... just an Elf would be enough to be considered a d-bee. And honestly that would be funny and fascinating to study from a splicers point of view.

It's not just appearance or abilities its whole genetic chains of transformation.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Shark_Force »

taalismn wrote:I rather think they could, but from a Gene Splicer perspective, elves are pretty pedestrian compared to what Gene Splicers are CAPABLE of.
"Why would you want to become something that's so boringly similar to what you already are? Wouldn't you rather be one of my THRASHER Z COMBATORGs?"


oh, i'd agree that a gene splicer is unlikely to choose to do that. but i definitely think they could choose to do that.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

GS are listed as having clone bodies with "blank" minds, which may be used as either spare parts or whole bodies. This suggests they may have some method of consciousness transferral, at least for themselves. If a given table decides that's the case, I'd probably go with a GS shoving a mind into a vat-grown body over modifying the original in a way which to them would be exceptionally boring. If a table prefers the idea of GS giving themselves surgical brain transplants into clone bodies instead then either surgery or genemods seem equally likely.

In either case I think arguments about whether or not the result is a "true" specimen often devolve from ontology to religion, and don't jive all that well with giant robot fights.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by MadGreenSon »

taalismn wrote:I rather think they could, but from a Gene Splicer perspective, elves are pretty pedestrian compared to what Gene Splicers are CAPABLE of.
"Why would you want to become something that's so boringly similar to what you already are? Wouldn't you rather be one of my THRASHER Z COMBATORGs?"

Pretty much.

If you go to a Gene Splicer with such a request, you might have pointed ears when it's all over with, they'll go nicely with your giant pincer arms, doglike muzzle, and hunger for human flesh. :lol:
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Mack »

The ineffible GM wrote:I recently had a player ask if there was a way in rifts for their human character to somehow get genetically modified to become an elf.

I see no reason that a gene splicer couldn't do it. I mean, good luck convincing them. But if one wanted to, it seems to me that they could.

Thoughts?


The other route would be to have some random god do it. Some god walks by with his magical elf-scepter, bonks the character on the head, and walks off laughing.

Hmm... or maybe the character finds out about this god, and must prove himself worthy of being bonked by the elf-scepter. That could be an adventure by itself.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by taalismn »

Shark_Force wrote:[

oh, i'd agree that a gene splicer is unlikely to choose to do that. but i definitely think they could choose to do that.



"Hey, if I give you a bunch of test subjects to turn into whatever you want, I'll give you a place to do it and the cover to do it in. All I ask is that you turn me into...an elf. With these specifications."

Devil's deal, right there. :twisted:
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by MadGreenSon »

taalismn wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:[

oh, i'd agree that a gene splicer is unlikely to choose to do that. but i definitely think they could choose to do that.



"Hey, if I give you a bunch of test subjects to turn into whatever you want, I'll give you a place to do it and the cover to do it in. All I ask is that you turn me into...an elf. With these specifications."

Devil's deal, right there. :twisted:

Just got to hope you've got one of the Gene Splicers that bothers to keep his word. Considering their most common alignments are Anarchist, Miscreant, and Diabolic. I don't like those odds.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Hawk258 »

MadGreenSon wrote:
taalismn wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:[

oh, i'd agree that a gene splicer is unlikely to choose to do that. but i definitely think they could choose to do that.



"Hey, if I give you a bunch of test subjects to turn into whatever you want, I'll give you a place to do it and the cover to do it in. All I ask is that you turn me into...an elf. With these specifications."

Devil's deal, right there. :twisted:

Just got to hope you've got one of the Gene Splicers that bothers to keep his word. Considering their most common alignments are Anarchist, Miscreant, and Diabolic. I don't like those odds.


Well chaos for chaos sake, it would likely be fun if he made a few "tweaks" and still keep his word.

I mean, this is where specifics matter.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

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"I said I'd make you into that... I didn't say you'd stay that way for long. And really who doesn't need a 3rd arm, eye stalks, 2 sets of wings, and an inability to eat anything but White Castle? "


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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by SolCannibal »

"You are quite recognizably an elf my dear, i see no problem with the tweaks i made on your initial concept in the process - having 3 heads, 6 arms and 4 wings detracts in no way of your original request and much adds in aesthetic appeal and uniqueness. That and the MDC structure of your upgraded body should make you a veritable demigod among them, i can't understand why such small-minded anger. Really, the ungratefulness of certain people!"
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Some bits on their interests and capacities, straight from the source:

- Although they can alter and evolve animals (i.e. create Dog Boys or monstrous predatory versions of regular animals) they usually spend most of their energy mutating humans, humanoids and other intelligent life forms. One can only presume that the aliens get greater sadistic pleasure transforming creatures who will understand what horrors have befallen them and what their future may hold.

- Energy beings, alien intelligences and most, true supernatural beings and creatures of magic cannot be genetically altered.

- Lost limbs cannot (as a rule) be genetically regrown. However, new limbs of all kinds can be "gene-spliced" onto an individual from other creatures or clones.


The following are just a few notable traits/changes that the genesplicers can instill on humans and human-like D-bees.

• Customize living creatures to have specific traits, attributes and powers.

• Reduce aging. Doubles the average life expectancy and the character always looks reasonably youthful.

• Stop aging. Actually the aging process is so dramatically reduced that he seems to have stopped aging entirely. Add 2D6 x 100 years to the character's normal life expectancy.

• Increase human height up to an additional six feet (1.8 m).

• Decrease normal human height by up to four feet (1.2 m).

• Increase human intelligence up to 30 but roll for one random insanity.

• Increase human aggression: +3 on initiative, +3 to strike and parry, + 2 to save vs horror factor, +4D6 S.D.C.; tends to be hyper, short tempered, suspicious of others, competitive, loves combat and physical contests. Level of concentration is reduced; —10% on skill performance and may have trouble sleeping.

• Instinctive hunter/predator: Likes to hunt and kill. Automatically gets the hunting and prowl skill, + 2 on initiative, + 3 to strike, plus one additional attack/action per melee. Likes to eat raw meat and the taste of blood and may be a cannibal (01-50% chance).

• Add 2D4 psionic powers from any of the three lesser categories to minor psionics and double I.S.P.; add 3D4 psionic powers from any of the three lesser categories or four super psi-power to major psionics and double I.S.P.; or give ALL psionic powers to mind melters or mind bleeders, and double I.S.P.

• Double the I.S.P., range and damage of a burster's powers.

• Create the genetic equivalent of the following O.C.C.s: Burster, dog boy, crazy or juicer without artificial implants or drugs.

• Add one to four arms, tail (prehensile or not), wings and the capability to fly (may mean hollow bones and different size), horns, and others. Can also change physical features.

• (also, if the Tri-Wolf can serve as indiccator, turn your average SDC being into a Mega-Damage Creature with 6D6 + 6 main body, 6D6 P.P.E. and a minor psionic with 3D6+12 I.S.P.


Feels helpful? I hope so.

Guess it helps dealing with the OP's issue and then some in cooking inane ideas.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by TechnoGothic »

See PhaseWorld Anvil Galaxy for full Gene-Tech Upgrades the can perform on beings.

Want a 1000 lifespan Bio-T
itan Juicer with Burster Powers and x2 isp burster isp. Done. Ohh and can combine sdc/hp into mdc while at it. Say 1,200 mdc...

But you might end up with Red Skin or Inhuman appearance. In this case... Say your Bio-TitanJuicer/Burster looks like Red Hulk... You're set.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by SolCannibal »

TechnoGothic wrote:See PhaseWorld Anvil Galaxy for full Gene-Tech Upgrades the can perform on beings.

Want a 1000 lifespan Bio-Titan Juicer with Burster Powers and x2 isp burster isp. Done.
Ohh and can combine sdc/hp into mdc while at it. Say 1,200 mdc...

But you might end up with Red Skin or Inhuman appearance. In this case... Say your Bio-TitanJuicer/Burster looks like Red Hulk... You're set.


Question: how similar and how different are Gene-Splicers and Gene-Tech from each other?
Must admit i never compared both races, in fact i never really read on the last one. :oops:

And how does either group compare to the Houses from the Splicers setting?
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

Stat-wise GS are 1 point higher on most attributes than a GT, have a couple of more actions/round, and have some more Super Psionics. GT are willing to use small amounts of cybernetics on themselves. I think most people consider them as essentially the same species.

Splicer Houses are totally different, due to being necessarily social as well as with the use of BIO-E. There's heavy development of biological projectile and energy weapons, which doesn't seem like a priority for GS/GT. This could be seen as due to GS/GT being far more skilled in other forms of technology. The Splicer Librarians and Engineers still callously experiment on living beings, but correspond what they inflict on humans directly to the degree of control they are able to exert on them, with the Scarecrows, Skinjobs, and Biotics each influenced differently.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by SolCannibal »

Curbludgeon wrote:Stat-wise GS are 1 point higher on most attributes than a GT, have a couple of more actions/round, and have some more Super Psionics. GT are willing to use small amounts of cybernetics on themselves. I think most people consider them as essentially the same species.

Splicer Houses are totally different, due to being necessarily social as well as with the use of BIO-E. There's heavy development of biological projectile and energy weapons, which doesn't seem like a priority for GS/GT. This could be seen as due to GS/GT being far more skilled in other forms of technology. The Splicer Librarians and Engineers still callously experiment on living beings, but correspond what they inflicit on humans directly with the degree of control they are able to exert on them, with the Scarecrows, Skinjobs, and Biotics each influenced differently.


That was pretty informative and gives an idea of what to expect if i try to tinker with one or more of those groups in a future game. Thanks.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by MadGreenSon »

TechnoGothic wrote:
But you might end up with Red Skin or Inhuman appearance. In this case... Say your Bio-TitanJuicer/Burster looks like Red Hulk... You're set.


If a GM wants to be lazy and has the book handy, they can roll on a few of the Nightbane Morphus tables for the appearance. The ones that don't involve tech or stigmata would likely work for a random determination of how whimsical and body horror a Gene Splicer is feeling on any given day.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by guardiandashi »

maybe its just me but my thought is it comes down to the idea of nature vs nurture which is at least up to the GM to decide how they want to rule.
they would also have to decide on if spirits, souls or whatever you want to call it, is linked to the body and how much so.

with that in mind there are a number of ways it can go:
soul is soul and body is body, they aren't directly linked so changed to one aspect don't directly affect the other.
this would mean that a human becoming an elf, by whatever means, is still going to have a human soul, its just now attached to an elf body.
a variation saying nature sets the base spirit, and nurture tweaks it kind of like an occ, would mean that when the body was changed from human to elf, then some aspects might change soon or immediately, and other changes might happen gradually over a period of time. meaning that the human in the elf body would gradually become more and more like an elf.
basically there is a lot of leeway and possibilities as to how you rule.

now if you consider rune weapons, rune magic and such, that definitely implies that souls definitely are a thing and some are more powerful than others, and they can be disrupted which implies that they may be able to be manipulated
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by SolCannibal »

guardiandashi wrote:maybe its just me but my thought is it comes down to the idea of nature vs nurture which is at least up to the GM to decide how they want to rule.
they would also have to decide on if spirits, souls or whatever you want to call it, is linked to the body and how much so.

with that in mind there are a number of ways it can go:
soul is soul and body is body, they aren't directly linked so changed to one aspect don't directly affect the other.
this would mean that a human becoming an elf, by whatever means, is still going to have a human soul, its just now attached to an elf body.
a variation saying nature sets the base spirit, and nurture tweaks it kind of like an occ, would mean that when the body was changed from human to elf, then some aspects might change soon or immediately, and other changes might happen gradually over a period of time. meaning that the human in the elf body would gradually become more and more like an elf.
basically there is a lot of leeway and possibilities as to how you rule.

now if you consider rune weapons, rune magic and such, that definitely implies that souls definitely are a thing and some are more powerful than others, and they can be disrupted which implies that they may be able to be manipulated


Supposing that spirits, souls or whatever are even influenced in any way by the body or species. A soul could be just a soul and no different for a human, dwarf, elf, goblin, ogre or whatever.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Curbludgeon wrote:Splicer Houses are totally different, due to being necessarily social as well as with the use of BIO-E. There's heavy development of biological projectile and energy weapons, which doesn't seem like a priority for GS/GT. This could be seen as due to GS/GT being far more skilled in other forms of technology. The Splicer Librarians and Engineers still callously experiment on living beings, but correspond what they inflict on humans directly to the degree of control they are able to exert on them, with the Scarecrows, Skinjobs, and Biotics each influenced differently.


well, mostly.

engineers don't really do any experimenting, per se. they put together whatever they're sent by the librarians, pretty much. and they don't tend to experiment on sapient beings; they generally capture or even more likely harvest genetic material from animals to get new ideas and such, but they're not like the gene splicers where they'll just stick a tentacle in your eye socket for the lulz and see how you deal with it. the scarecrow, skinjob, and biotic transformations are not particularly experimental, at least, not at this point in the setting. they've been around for decades, the procedures are reasonably well understood, and the closest thing to an experiment in those procedures would be that they might include some piece of biotech that has not yet become ready for general production. even then, the geneticist OCC generally implies that experimental stuff is generally tested on semi-sentient bio-tech constructs (some portion of which go beyond semi-sentience and actually become sapient to a limited extent), but also possibly is done by the geneticists to themselves on occasions.

there are, however, new types of bio-tech engineered humans since the core book. that means that they must eventually experiment on humans... but at that point we're talking about implementing technology that they've tested elsewhere and are fairly certain it will work, so again, more like "well we have a cybernetic heart that we've gotten to work in a mouse, a cat, and a pig, we've made what we think are the necessary changes to make it work in a human and we're going to try implanting it into someone that needs a heart transplant" than "hey, let's see how this guy we captured off the streets deals with having no head and his arms being replaced by snakes with half the brain in each arm because that sounds fun".

of course, librarians that have gone megalo are an entirely different story. they may be much more like the gene splicers in a lot of ways...

splicers used to be plenty skilled in other forms of technology. some of them probably still are; the librarians are capable of preserving memories and such, i wouldn't be too surprised if they had recorded all kinds of information on how conventional tech works, or if they had some small portion of the population studying that knowledge in order to better plan against the machine and to find/exploit weaknesses better. they stopped using metal because their enemy infected the entire world with nanomachines that attempt to kill all humans on contact with metal that is not actively a part of their enemy's network, not because they have no idea how it works. in fact, recent supplements have indicated that some portions of the human population rely more on conventional tech than biotech, but are forced to rely on plastics, ceramics, and precious metals (which the enemy decided not to infect, mostly because it's functionally insane).
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by TechnoGothic »

Gene-Splicers & Gene-Techs like incorporating Bionics/Biomechanical parts into their creations. Books even state that fact...
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by SolCannibal »

TechnoGothic wrote:Gene-Splicers & Gene-Techs like incorporating Bionics/Biomechanical parts into their creations. Books even state that fact...


Gene-Techs indeed. Gene-Splicers, quite the contrary and in fact their understated but definite aversion to the use of implants seems to be one of the main differences between the two groups.
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Re: Gene splicers/tech: How far can it go?

Unread post by eliakon »

I would say that Splicer Houses are basically what you get if you let humans play around with Gene-Splicer technology.
And in fact it likely is just that.
After all there is constant talk about "alien" stuff, and the whole bio-tech thing shows up pretty much out of the blue.
Combined with the fact that the nano-plague looks to be pretty much textbook Elder Race technology itself... and I can totally see some Gene-Splicers giving the humans the first bio-tech so that they could screw with the tool of some other technocentric Elder Race that was supporting the Computer.
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