Cyberknight psi shield question

[(SHIFTY)]

Does anyone know if it takes a turn to summon a psi shield for the Cyberknight? Or is it instant like the psi sword. Thanks!

[Mack]

Takes an action.

[Blue_Lion]

Generally activating any power takes at least 1 action.

[glitterboy2098]

Cyberknights follow the normal rules for the time/actions it takes ot use their powers, with the sole exception of their Psi-swords, which have some special rules.

[(SHIFTY)]

Thanks! Did not know if functions like the psi sword or not

[glitterboy2098]

i'll double check but AFAIK the Psi-sword was the only exception. i'm about to play my cyberknight char again soon so i need to bone up on their rules and the cyberknight code anyway

[ShadowLogan]

i'll double check but AFAIK the Psi-sword was the only exception. i'm about to play my cyberknight char again soon so i need to bone up on their rules and the cyberknight code anyway

It is the only exception, the only difference between the CK-Psi-Shield and a Regular Psi-Shield is the ISP cost, otherwise they are the same.

The only other class that I know of off-hand that can summon a Psi-Sword faster than normal, but not as fast as a CK, is the Amaki Duelist. Psi-Tech items (like the Amaki TW Psi-Blade) might also reduce the time, but I don't think you can get better than one action in most cases.

[Axelmania]

I am trying to find one redeeming tactical advantage to the cyber-knight having a psi-shield.

The only purpose I can see is RP wise "I'm holding something I can't hurt you with" to appear less threatening.

[Killer Cyborg]

I am trying to find one redeeming tactical advantage to the cyber-knight having a psi-shield.

The only purpose I can see is RP wise "I'm holding something I can't hurt you with" to appear less threatening.

If the shield is large enough to cover your Main Body, then you have portable potential cover.
If you’re eating a large meal, then you have a potential plate.
If you’re in a snowy hillside, you have a potential sled.
There are lots of things you might be able to do with it.

[Mack]

As KC said, it becomes the character's Main Body so the attacker will need a called shot to go around it.

And depending on how liberal the GM is with the "last bit of protection" rule, it could absorb a very large blast before dissipating.

[ShadowLogan]

I am trying to find one redeeming tactical advantage to the cyber-knight having a psi-shield.

The only purpose I can see is RP wise "I'm holding something I can't hurt you with" to appear less threatening.

If the shield is large enough to cover your Main Body, then you have portable potential cover.
If you’re eating a large meal, then you have a potential plate.
If you’re in a snowy hillside, you have a potential sled.
There are lots of things you might be able to do with it.

I'm not sure about the plate/sled options. I always pictured the handling of the psi-shield like the psi-sword, being extensions of the body and can't be "passed" which I think would be required to be able to use it as a plate or sled (though if the player explained how they are doing this w/o getting into the "passed" ability territory).

When it comes to shield uses you can add:
-melee combat (obvious answer)
-protection from falling debris (fluid or solid)
-you could use it as a shovel/digging tool (crude as it maybe)
-chance your surface area (slow you down in a fall, or make it harder for something to push you like say "Wind Rush")
-IIRC its opaqueness isn't established so a potential light barrier
-reinforce part of a wall/door/ceiling temporarily
-extend your "reach" (sure psi-sword can do it, but then you get into when does a psi-sword do damage territory)

[Axelmania]

As KC said, it becomes the character's Main Body so the attacker will need a called shot to go around it.

I would love it if all shields worked this way in Palladium but I'm not entirely sure the rules support that. What basis can I use to back up this explanation if people disagree with me using it?

[ShadowLogan]

As KC said, it becomes the character's Main Body so the attacker will need a called shot to go around it.

I would love it if all shields worked this way in Palladium but I'm not entirely sure the rules support that. What basis can I use to back up this explanation if people disagree with me using it?

Based on the Angle of Attack, it is possible for the shield to be presented as such if it blocks the path (this would be common sense). For ex. A Knight holding a Shield on horseback, from one side (likely the left) would qualify as "main body" sense it would block the torso from view (legs and head might be visible, but they aren't "main body" by definition on RUE pg362). This is essentially how one of the missile defense options work (RUE pg364 "Block Sacrifice"), and how KC is applying the "Shooting at Someone Behind Cover" rule (RUE pg361).

[Axelmania]

This would make the indestructible energy shields created by a minor super power in Powers Unlimited a lot more attractive

This makes me wonder what the dimension limits are for Psi-Shields. Presumably a member of a 12 ft tall race could make a shield of increased size scaled for his use...

But is there anything preventing a 6ft tall psychic from making a double-sized shield too? Or maybe a tower-shield designed for a 100ft tall creature?

I'm liking this idea, because this would allow the power to compete with Telekinetic Force Field to some degree, albeit not totally since it presumably could not encase an entire spherical bubble like that. Shields don't have to be completely flat (many curve) but you're still basically blocking less than 180 degrees of attack angles. TKFF are explicitly "air tight"

Both powers have the same basic costs yet TKFF had double the duration, so halving the cost of Psi-Shield makes it a little more competitive. This is sorely needed because the advantage Psi-Shield has over TKFF (parrying) is basically filled by the cyber-knight's free power (their low-damage psi-sword). The initially higher MDC of 80 is quickly outstripped, as TKFF's 25/level nearly ties (75) at 3rd and outclasses at 4th.

TK Force Fields can parry once... but then they presumably remain fixed in place, so where the Psi-Shield would stand out is the ability to reposition them over time throughout their durations, such as defending allies while retreating yourself.

In fact this might be the only way to protect people while moving, because TKFF is created "around" people, and can't be moved, so it would basically prevent advancing/withdrawing and could only protect immobile targets.

Another possible difference:

If the Mind Melter is rendered unconscious or killed the force fields instantly vanish.

I don't see a note like this for psi-shield, so another advantage it might have is they might stay in place providing protection if the user is unconscious.

[ShadowLogan]

This makes me wonder what the dimension limits are for Psi-Shields. Presumably a member of a 12 ft tall race could make a shield of increased size scaled for his use..

Going off of artwork for a minute, at least in Rifts books and how they are depicted, IINM they are all "medium" size shields (WB12 cover/1-interior, SoT4 numerous interior) that come to mind. I can't really think of depictions in other sources atm.

Both powers have the same basic costs yet TKFF had double the duration, so halving the cost of Psi-Shield makes it a little more competitive. This is sorely needed because the advantage Psi-Shield has over TKFF (parrying) is basically filled by the cyber-knight's free power (their low-damage psi-sword). The initially higher MDC of 80 is quickly outstripped, as TKFF's 25/level nearly ties (75) at 3rd and outclasses at 4th.

Keep in mind though that TKFF has numerous drawbacks compared to a Psi-Shield, or even tech/magic shields:
-it is immobile once cast, even by the psychic who created it
-caster can not fire through their own force field (I doubt you could do that with shields being considered to, but the caster can always move either the weapon/shield to allow it to be fired)
-it requires some form of support and must be created on solid ground

In fact this might be the only way to protect people while moving, because TKFF is created "around" people, and can't be moved, so it would basically prevent advancing/withdrawing and could only protect immobile targets.

I have to disagree, nothing in the entry prevents it from being used as a "Wall of Stone/Ice/Iron/Defense/Thorn/Clay/the Weird" (for example) instead of "Energy Field" or "Encase in Stone/Ice" looking at magic for a second. The psychic can make it big enough to allow some movement (giving some degree of mobility), they control the size and placement (meaning it doesn't have to go around a target, it could be located directional relative to the target to offer protection w/o engulfing it).

One could also argue that TKFF only applies to relative motion, if we don't treat it this way it would never be able to be cast on Earth (and elsewhere) as Earth is in motion (both on its axis through rotation which gives us the day/night cycle and through space giving us seasons, and even responsible for the changing position of stars, which are also in motion, etc).

[Mack]

This would make the indestructible energy shields created by a minor super power in Powers Unlimited a lot more attractive

Or the Magic Tattoo Flaming Shield.

[Shark_Force]

the shields count as cover thing is not really strict RAW. of course, not much is in palladium, so take that with a grain of salt. it is an interpretation on the cover rules (such as they are), which more or less state that you have cover if you have cover, and if you do have cover it takes a called shot to get around said cover. this more or less means that the question of whether or not shields count as cover somewhat up in the air; there certainly isn't any explicit support for it that i've seen, and being proficient with a shield apparently has absolutely nothing to do with it based on the WP shield skill, and while it is extremely difficult to parry any sort of energy blast with a shield (ie putting the shield in between yourself and the attack) treating the shield as cover makes it child's play to do that. literally; the skill doesn't have anything to do with using shields as cover, so an untrained child is just as good at using the shield in that way as a warrior who has used a shield in a hundred battles.

as such, it ultimately boils down to whether your DM thinks shields count as cover or not. if they do, then anything that isn't an aimed shot will do damage to the shield instead of your normal main body.

of course, shields probably should be improved; the clear and explicit rules support we do have for them generally leaves them being only marginally better for defense than, say, a knife. so i personally support some sort of house rule to make shields do at least something more than what we explicitly know they do (ie provide an implement with which you can parry, at a very slightly superior rate if you happen to be proficient).

personally, i prefer the idea of giving shields an AR; a full body shield with an MDC transparent viewing area and a gun port might have an AR of 18. a shield 2 feet in diameter might provide 12 or so AR. a shield like the romans used might give 15 or better. in most cases, the AR will only be applicable from one direction, and i would take the parry bonus from WP shield and add it to the AR of the shield as well. note, however, that i say 'would'; my gaming group hasn't played rifts in years, and i haven't DM'd since coming up with the idea, so i haven't tested anything.

but if you're looking for a quick fix, shields as cover is certainly straightforward. i just feel that if you make shields that good, it somewhat warps the setting... any time you have an intelligent creature capable of making MDC structures, you really need to justify why they aren't using a shield imo; i mean, why wouldn't you? enemies either have to make called shots and thus get half as many attacks (and thus deal half as much damage over time), or they have to get through the entire MDC value of your shield to do a single point of damage to you (and in some cases, that MDC value is "infinite"). you'd have to be daft to not use a shield if they work that well. shields are also very quick to prepare (it might easily take a minute or two to put on a full suit of environmental body armour from scratch, but a shield probably takes a few seconds), and should generally be lighter than a full suit of armour, thus making it much easier to just switch out if your shield is heavily damaged. shields are less complex and should thus be much easier to make which in turn should make them cheaper than body armour, and don't need to have any seams or moving parts which should also make them stronger for their weight.

but i definitely support doing *something* to make shields better. if you don't go beyond the things we explicitly know for sure that shields definitely do, they're basically a heavier, bulkier parrying dagger, except with less utility (a knife can be a rather handy tool to have on you).

[Axelmania]

Keep in mind though that TKFF has numerous drawbacks compared to a Psi-Shield, or even tech/magic shields:
-it is immobile once cast, even by the psychic who created it

I did say "can't be moved" later in my post

This makes me wonder though... while you can't move it, it doesn't say anything about being unable to re-size it, so that makes me wonder if you could start off with a force field that "covers about a three foot area" (minimum size) and expand it to "a 10 foot area per level" throughout its duration. If you could this would create problems like "can my field push people away or pull them closer" so I imagine a lot of people work it like you must stay with whatever size you initially choose.

-caster can not fire through their own force field (I doubt you could do that with shields being considered to, but the caster can always move either the weapon/shield to allow it to be fired)

In both cases you would fire around the Field/Shield, not through it. The difference is as you say, Psi-Shield gives you the option of moving the shield instead of moving the weapon, but I'm not sure in terms of combat mechanics the benefit it would give unless someone had entangled your weapon arm.

-it requires some form of support and must be created on solid ground

Er, source? The only requirements I'm aware of are "around himself or others". I could've sworn I saw some psychic power armor with flight capabilities and TKFF built in in DB2 for the Noro.

nothing in the entry prevents it from being used as a "Wall of Stone/Ice/Iron/Defense/Thorn/Clay/the Weird" (for example) instead of "Energy Field" or "Encase in Stone/Ice" looking at magic for a second. The psychic can make it big enough to allow some movement (giving some degree of mobility), they control the size and placement (meaning it doesn't have to go around a target, it could be located directional relative to the target to offer protection w/o engulfing it).

Walls are generally flat and straight, TKFF is described as a "bubble" which is "around" and "encircles" its target, so I think it's intended to be locked into a spherical shape.

One could also argue that TKFF only applies to relative motion, if we don't treat it this way it would never be able to be cast on Earth (and elsewhere) as Earth is in motion (both on its axis through rotation which gives us the day/night cycle and through space giving us seasons, and even responsible for the changing position of stars, which are also in motion, etc).

I agree with you on this. Since movement is relative, I believe when using the power you would need to create a frame of reference to which movement is fixed.

If you make the frame of reference the actual character, if they are assumed to be standing then the lower portion of the sphere would be "grabbing" the ground, explaining why they wouldn't be able to move the sphere but could still walk around.

If you made it around someone who was falling, it would explain why they would be able to continue falling (otherwise, the inability of TKFF to move would stop falls, which it doesn't really describe doing...) but in that case since the field wouldn't "grab" the ground, to move around would basically be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorbing

There is a difference between "I press against an inner side of a sphere and it rolls" vs "a sphere automatically moves with me" though. I could use some help thinking of the physics of that situation. For example, if you jumped inside such a sphere, since people CROUCH before they jump, a portion of their body shifts down, so you can't just center a sphere on YOU, you need to center it on a specific part of you, such as your head, your sternum, your pelvis, your left foot, etc.

If crouching caused the field to move down and the field hits the ground, what happens? Would you treat damage to the field as if a short fall? Is it possible to make a crater? If the field can't move to keep your head/pelvis in its center when you crouch, is there a "rebound" with the field pushing you back up and preventing you from crouching?

Assuming you centered it on an object which doesn't move during a crouch (like the sole of a foot) is it possible to "push off" a plane which would automatically lift with you? Would this allow "air jumps"? The books say nothing about this, I'm just trying to understand the physics ramifications of a field which automatically compensates to center on a frame of reference.

..
being proficient with a shield apparently has absolutely nothing to do with it based on the WP shield skill, and while it is extremely difficult to parry any sort of energy blast with a shield (ie putting the shield in between yourself and the attack) treating the shield as cover makes it child's play to do that. literally; the skill doesn't have anything to do with using shields as cover, so an untrained child is just as good at using the shield in that way as a warrior who has used a shield in a hundred battles.
..
personally, i prefer the idea of giving shields an AR; a full body shield with an MDC transparent viewing area and a gun port might have an AR of 18. a shield 2 feet in diameter might provide 12 or so AR. a shield like the romans used might give 15 or better. in most cases, the AR will only be applicable from one direction, and i would take the parry bonus from WP shield and add it to the AR of the shield as well.
..

I like this idea, though I might go further and say all parrying bonuses you could use with a shield (not just from the WP) or maybe even do something like a basic AR with bonus AR equal to whatever your parry roll is (ie all bonuses plus d20).

We should probably have some rules on low PS people getting their arms broken blocking high-impact attacks with shields. Especially if doing stuff like blocking MD punches using MDC shields with normal PS.

Parrying with ANYTHING should probably work this way. Right now there isn't really any synergy between parrying and AR, but if we treated parries as adding roll-based AR we could have that synergy.

In which case to keep it effective, in addition to your parry roll there should be a basic AR bonus simply from holding a weapon based on its surface area, like +1 to AR if holding a knife, +2 if holding a sword, +3 if holding a buckler, +4 from a kite, +5 from a tower, or something along those lines. All cover's not created equal after all.

The "called shot" is too much of a hard cap, I think I'd prefer a continuum of growing penalties for better cover.

[Natasha]

I don't have time now so I'll be brief. A frame of reference has no physical manifestation. You can think of them as the coordinate system of the physical problem. For a motion problem near the surface of the earth, the surface is a suitable frame as it's approximately inertial. Newton's laws of motion are only valid in such frames. I can provide more help or detail later if you like.

[Axelmania]

The problem is stuff like "I'm fighting on top of a building" or "I'm fighting on the moon". If we allow psychics to target a frame of reference other than themself, we should probably put some sort of range limitation on it.

I think perhaps, relying on the range of the power, that after the psychic uses the range to determine the centre of sphere, the range can be used again to pick a frame of reference within that distance of the sphere's centre.

This means the psychic can always choose themselves, for example, or a single point 2x the range away to which the sphere centre lies on the midpoint of the line drawn to it.

[Natasha]

I see.

Sketch a few situations. You may originate a coordinate system anywhere.

After sketching, you end up with some points having rectangular coordinates relative to the axes of the coordinate system (here a rectangular coordinate system is the most straightforward). It matters little where you put the origin of the coordinate system.

Suppose the psychic is at (a, 0) and the field is (a - 20, 0), then the field is 20 unit lengths away from the psychic in the "negative" direction; the psychic is a unit lengths from the y-axis in the "positive" direction, both on the surface having 0 unit lengths from the x-axis.

If you want the psychic at the origin of the coordinate system, it's a simple matter of a Galilean transformation of the coordinates. In this scenario, the psychic's coordinate is (0, 0) and the field is (-20, 0). Of course, vertical transformations to (or from) the top of a building is no different. Being on the Moon changes none of what I just described.

The frame of reference is the surface. It is convenient to place the x-axis along the surface and the y-axis anywhere that a 0 makes things simpler.

[ShadowLogan]

In both cases you would fire around the Field/Shield, not through it. The difference is as you say, Psi-Shield gives you the option of moving the shield instead of moving the weapon, but I'm not sure in terms of combat mechanics the benefit it would give unless someone had entangled your weapon arm.

TKFF though specifically states you can't fire throught it and that it is a force bubble. RUE pg183 (and was not present in RMB, PF2E) "Characters inside the force field suffer from the same limitations and cannot fire weapons or energy magic from within the forcefield without hitting and damaging their protective bubble, and anyone caught inside a force field bubble is trapped inside until they blast their way out (destroying its M.D.C.) or the duration elapses", this is from the 2nd to last paragaraph discussing the power (last one starts with bolded note:, "force bubble" is used in the 3rd paragarph at the end)

Er, source? The only requirements I'm aware of are "around himself or others". I could've sworn I saw some psychic power armor with flight capabilities and TKFF built in in DB2 for the Noro.

RUE pg183 (and was not present in RMB, PF2E) in the last paragraph for the power "Note:...Force Field requires some form of support (...) and must be created on solid ground. Once created, it can NOT be moved."-emphasis is original text.

The Noro PA in DB2 doesn't technically have TKFF (unless it changed in printings), it has a "Psionic Force Field"-DB2pg129. That is even how the Psionic Crystal Armor on the preceding page handles it. What that "Psionic Force Field" is in terms of equivalent power I don't know, Psychic Body Armor seems to be a good choice, but it requires Level 20 for the PA suit. It's probably also important to consider that Psi-Tech might operate similar to TW in that it can alter parameters of spells, or might have "powers" not normally available (some of CJC's races in SA1&2 IIRC have a variant form of psychic body armor before WB12 introduced it).

[quote=Axelmania"]Walls are generally flat and straight, TKFF is described as a "bubble" which is "around" and "encircles" its target, so I think it's intended to be locked into a spherical shape.[/quote]
Walls also have a thickness to them, essentially being a rectangular "bubble". Nothing in the description though requires that you place it on a person. And "bubbles" need not pure spheres (you can get teardrop, tubes, snowman body-like, you can even get more rectangular shapes with a framework).

[Natasha]

I would go with hemispheres, since they speak of having a diameter.

[Blue_Lion]

I am trying to find one redeeming tactical advantage to the cyber-knight having a psi-shield.

The only purpose I can see is RP wise "I'm holding something I can't hurt you with" to appear less threatening.

It can be used to block attacks. (just like the rules say)
So to block attacks that can't be dodged block a volley of 4 missiles that can't be dodged. (weather this would be like a sacrifice block or just radius damage would be up the GM)
If there are squishes behind the knight dodging could result in them getting hit but blocking would not.(the nights are defenders after all.)
It could be used to strike sdc targets.
Dual weapon simultaneous parry strike.

[Axelmania]

I was checking my old RMB, that explains it.

I wonder how loose the definition of "ground" is though.

[Blue_Lion]

I was checking my old RMB, that explains it.

I wonder how loose the definition of "ground" is though.

I think it refers to a surface that is stood on as it is used.

[Axelmania]

So you could probably anchor it to a Psi-Shield if you stood on it then? https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Shield_Surfing

[Blue_Lion]

So you could probably anchor it to a Psi-Shield if you stood on it then? https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Shield_Surfing

Are you trying to find a lame rules lawyer way to make it mobile?
More likely it would be anchored to what ever the shield was on.

[Axelmania]

You should establish criteria for what it can anchor to and what it can't anchor to, if you want to say no.

How high above the earth should an item be before it becomes a viable substitute? Or are you banning using TKFF to protect Emperor Prosek within his personal Death's Head?

Anchoring to the Earth is still a mobile TKFF relative to things not matching the Earth's rotation and orbit.

[eliakon]

So you could probably anchor it to a Psi-Shield if you stood on it then? https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Shield_Surfing

If your GM allows rules lawyering like that then sure
I know at my table you would either get 25 XP for a clever but futile idea... or get a "bad lawyer, no biscuit" from me as the other players laughed at you.

Basically I see the rules as "this is the basic way it is intended to work have fun" not as "This is the challenge you are giving to find out ways to get around how the game is written so as to get some sort of 'advantage' by deliberately breaking the game through the use of creative vocabulary, novel interpretations of grammar and hair splitting."

[Blue_Lion]

You should establish criteria for what it can anchor to and what it can't anchor to, if you want to say no.

How high above the earth should an item be before it becomes a viable substitute? Or are you banning using TKFF to protect Emperor Prosek within his personal Death's Head?

Anchoring to the Earth is still a mobile TKFF relative to things not matching the Earth's rotation and orbit.

Why do you have such a hard time understanding common English saying?

The height of the item is irrelevant. Obviously something you are standing on something that you can pick up and move does not make it count as ground. What is next you going to say you stand on your shoes so they should count as ground.

[dreicunan]

You should establish criteria for what it can anchor to and what it can't anchor to, if you want to say no.

How high above the earth should an item be before it becomes a viable substitute? Or are you banning using TKFF to protect Emperor Prosek within his personal Death's Head?

Anchoring to the Earth is still a mobile TKFF relative to things not matching the Earth's rotation and orbit.

Why do you have such a hard time understanding common English saying?

The height of the item is irrelevant. Obviously something you are standing on something that you can pick up and move does not make it count as ground. What is next you going to say you stand on your shoes so they should count as ground.

I'd put the odds of that being his next argument at about 87%.

[Axelmania]

Guys are we certain there's no in-book examples of TKFF being used outside the context of "I'm placing a bubble on soil and/or rocks"?

Basically I see the rules as "this is the basic way it is intended to work have fun" not as "This is the challenge you are giving to find out ways to get around how the game is written so as to get some sort of 'advantage' by deliberately breaking the game through the use of creative vocabulary, novel interpretations of grammar and hair splitting."

RUE 183 mentions 2 criteria:

some form of support
AND
on solid ground

All I can figure for the "and" is to disqualify stuff like quicksand as support. If you rule out about that, how "less mushy" should ground be before you consider it "solid" and "supportive".

The question here is what your requirements are for defining what "support" and "ground" are.

For example, would the surface of a planet-sized spaceship like the Death Star (or a dominator) qualify as ground? If so, how small would a ship need to be before you no longer considered it ground?

Obviously something you are standing on something that you can pick up and move does not make it count as ground.

It sounds like you are proposing that the criteria for "ground" be "something too heavy for the psychic to pick up".

One problem I'd have with this is it gives low PS psychics more versatility. Whereas something based on the power's mechanics would be neutral to a psychic's PS.

I'd put the odds of that being his next argument at about 87%.

The suggestion of size-based guidelines I think, given that the minimum size of a TK Force Field is 3 feet, that at bare minimum the size of terrain you anchor to should be at least that much. Aside from clowns I don't think humans wear 3ft shoes, but I wouldn't necessarily disqualify a Zentraedi-sized boot.

[Blue_Lion]

Guys are we certain there's no in-book examples of TKFF being used outside the context of "I'm placing a bubble on soil and/or rocks"?

Basically I see the rules as "this is the basic way it is intended to work have fun" not as "This is the challenge you are giving to find out ways to get around how the game is written so as to get some sort of 'advantage' by deliberately breaking the game through the use of creative vocabulary, novel interpretations of grammar and hair splitting."

RUE 183 mentions 2 criteria:

some form of support
AND
on solid ground

All I can figure for the "and" is to disqualify stuff like quicksand as support. If you rule out about that, how "less mushy" should ground be before you consider it "solid" and "supportive".

The question here is what your requirements are for defining what "support" and "ground" are.

For example, would the surface of a planet-sized spaceship like the Death Star (or a dominator) qualify as ground? If so, how small would a ship need to be before you no longer considered it ground?

Obviously something you are standing on something that you can pick up and move does not make it count as ground.

It sounds like you are proposing that the criteria for "ground" be "something too heavy for the psychic to pick up".

One problem I'd have with this is it gives low PS psychics more versatility. Whereas something based on the power's mechanics would be neutral to a psychic's PS.

I'd put the odds of that being his next argument at about 87%.

The suggestion of size-based guidelines I think, given that the minimum size of a TK Force Field is 3 feet, that at bare minimum the size of terrain you anchor to should be at least that much. Aside from clowns I don't think humans wear 3ft shoes, but I wouldn't necessarily disqualify a Zentraedi-sized boot.

I am proposing solid ground would be something people commonly refer to as such and play silly word games.

[Axelmania]

This isn't a word game. Some people would view different terrain as more solid than others. You have to draw the line somewhere, so I'm asking you actually give geographic details not cop-outs.

[Blue_Lion]

This isn't a word game. Some people would view different terrain as more solid than others. You have to draw the line somewhere, so I'm asking you actually give geographic details not cop-outs.

And I am saying I will not play your game and give your geographical data to play word games with, or rules lawyer. If your group can not figure out a common usage of solid ground that is on your GM. You already demonstrated with your standing on the shield that it is your intent to force me to create a frame for you look to abuse.

[Axelmania]

And I am saying I will not play your game and give your geographical data to play word games with, or rules lawyer. If your group can not figure out a common usage of solid ground that is on your GM. You already demonstrated with your standing on the shield that it is your intent to force me to create a frame for you look to abuse.

If you define a frame for "ground" properly, it could only be used, not abused.

I'm not sure about the plate/sled options. I always pictured the handling of the psi-shield like the psi-sword, being extensions of the body and can't be "passed" which I think would be required to be able to use it as a plate or sled

If you believe you must remain in contact with a shield then you couldn't throw the shield on the ground and hop onto it but what if you kept your hand in contact with the grip of the shield while placing it on the ground and stepping onto it?

I'm wondering where the idea that one must remain gripping the shield to keep it active comes from. Range is generally simply for activating abilities, not maintaining them.