Help Picking Magic Class

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
crazyfoxdemon
D-Bee
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by crazyfoxdemon »

So I just got invited to join a Rifts game that's about to start. It'll be a phaseworld type of setting. I'm used to playing Coalition characters so I'm trying to avoid that this time around. I want to mess around with magic, but I'm not exactly sure what I should go with. The GM asked me to use my best discretion and not pick anything broken to hell and back. The other people are playing a glitter boy and a headhunter assassin. Anyone have any suggestions?
guardiandashi
Hero
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:21 am

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by guardiandashi »

do you like the idea of crafting? make a techno wizard.
do you want to be a summoner and work with minions?

basically you pick a mage that is focused around what you want to try out.
rem1093
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 374
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:03 am
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by rem1093 »

What are you playing, combat, adventurer, ext?
User avatar
Tick
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:05 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Tick »

crazyfoxdemon wrote:So I just got invited to join a Rifts game that's about to start. It'll be a phaseworld type of setting. I'm used to playing Coalition characters so I'm trying to avoid that this time around. I want to mess around with magic, but I'm not exactly sure what I should go with. The GM asked me to use my best discretion and not pick anything broken to hell and back. The other people are playing a glitter boy and a headhunter assassin. Anyone have any suggestions?


Shifters are fantastic!
Lord Magus are Great!
More subtle options... tech-wizard or Stone masters.
TeeAychEeMarchHare
Explorer
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:56 pm
Comment: War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by TeeAychEeMarchHare »

I had a lot of fun with a Temporal Warrior way back in the day.
Too much ammo is a self-correcting problem.
User avatar
crazyfoxdemon
D-Bee
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:56 pm

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by crazyfoxdemon »

Tick wrote:[Shifters are fantastic!
Lord Magus are Great!
More subtle options... tech-wizard or Stone masters.

What do you mean about subtle in regards to stone masters?

TeeAychEeMarchHare wrote:I had a lot of fun with a Temporal Warrior way back in the day.

How does it play?
User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6323
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Mack »

If you find a class appealing, but feel that it needs a bump in power, a popular option is to change the race to a True Atlantean. That will give the character better attributes, a few Magic Tattoos, and a rich back story.
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 27968
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

crazyfoxdemon wrote:So I just got invited to join a Rifts game that's about to start. It'll be a phaseworld type of setting. I'm used to playing Coalition characters so I'm trying to avoid that this time around. I want to mess around with magic, but I'm not exactly sure what I should go with. The GM asked me to use my best discretion and not pick anything broken to hell and back. The other people are playing a glitter boy and a headhunter assassin. Anyone have any suggestions?


What's your general idea of what a mage should be?
More like Gandalf, using sword and staff most of the time, and only whipping out spells when he has to?
More like Harry Potter?
An anti-tech snob who uses magic for every aspect of his/her/its life?
A fireball-slinger?
A magical scholar?
Or what?
Last edited by Killer Cyborg on Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Library Ogre
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer
Posts: 9822
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:01 am
Comment: My comments do not necessarily represent the views of Palladium Books.
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Library Ogre »

My favorite has always been the Shifter. Great initial selection of spells, some nice powers.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett

When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
User avatar
ShadowLogan
Palladin
Posts: 7470
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:50 am
Location: WI

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

crazyfoxdemon wrote:So I just got invited to join a Rifts game that's about to start. It'll be a phaseworld type of setting. I'm used to playing Coalition characters so I'm trying to avoid that this time around. I want to mess around with magic, but I'm not exactly sure what I should go with. The GM asked me to use my best discretion and not pick anything broken to hell and back. The other people are playing a glitter boy and a headhunter assassin. Anyone have any suggestions?

As a few others have asked, how do you want the mage to work?

For General Purpose Wizard/Mage, just go with a Ley Line Walker if you don't have much experience with using magic. A Mystic might also work (might be better/worse given how new spells are added).

However if you have some ideas on how you want the character to use their magic that would point to more specialized classes.
User avatar
Warshield73
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 5148
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Warshield73 »

If it is Phase World you can't go wrong with an Obsidian Spell Thief or Space Warlock, DB 6 - The Three Galaxies Pg. 81-84. Excellent magic abilities and excellent skill choices for a space campaign.

If it is just a Phase World like setting with most characters coming from Rifts Earth you can't go wrong with a Tolkeen Artifact Hunter, DB 7 - Megaverse Builder Pg. 48. Basically a shifter with a few changes to powers and skill selections. This book also has interesting MDC familiars.
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider for WB 32: Lemuria, WB 33: Northern Gun 1, WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider Rifts Bestiary: Vol 1, Rifts Bestiary: Vol 2
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by eliakon »

I would say that the first question is "what does your GM feel is "broken""
That right there is a key issue. I say that because some of the suggestions here are classes that some GMs feel are broken, and some do not.

As a new player to magic I would advise, strongly, that you avoid a class that has a lot of special class features. Getting the hang of how magic works and doesn't work is complicated enough with out throwing in a lot of special abilities and alterations.

My suggestions for a new mage player are this
Ley line walker/Ley line Rifter. They have the fewest rules to learn, can learn new spells so that you can avoid the issue of 'oops I nerfed myself', and can use their skills to fit in almost any role desired.

Mystic. This is a great choice since many players have already played psychics and thus they are already on somewhat familiar ground, Mystics tend to have fewer spells (though the GM does have the (fairly valuble) plot option of simply having the cosmos 'provide' a needed spell (helpful for no one has the right spell that will allow what needs to be done)) The upside of fewer spells is that you have less spells to juggle (my last mage had dozens of spells...meaning that every time I was having to think about what to use, and how to allocate PPE and all the rest)

Stone Mage: This class has a short list of magic powers that is easy to juggle, a few special abilities and no need to spend time and money learning spells ect. Though they do need their gem supply. A nice perk is that you can pick a race to go with this that can help supplement your abilities as a number of interesting races are big users of stone magic


The classes I would avoid
Shifter, Summoner - Pets can be tricky and they can take a bit of getting used to to run well. They can also overwhelm the game and turn it into me and my sidekicks...with the other PCs as some of those sidekicks

TW- They require a LOT of downtime, a good understanding of the magic system, tools workspace and it can be frusterating if you are not totally in synch with what your GM considers reasonable.

Diabolist, Line Drawer, Summoner, etc: These classes are very complicated, tend to require LOTS of set up, and tend to use their own rules... meaning that experience playing them doesn't transfer over as well to future mages.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
Incriptus
Hero
Posts: 1255
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:01 am
Comment: Hey, relaaaax. Pretend it's a game. Maybe it'll even be fun
Shoot the tubes, Dogmeat!
Location: Washington State

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Incriptus »

I like to say that learning magic is like learning a martial art. It's great on the street, but when you go to war, you grab a gun like everyone else.

Combine that with you're familiarity with CS Type characters, and that the other two characters are Men-at-arms as well, I would likely identify with O.C.C's that are Warriors with Magic, rather than a Magician forced to fight.

So, some options


Warlock Marine Magic Specialist [Phase world 2, page 39] - However may be a little to light on magic
Space Warlock [DB6 3 Galaxies, Page 83] - Stronger Magic, weaker fighter
Temporal Warrior [WB3 England, page 69] - Weaker Magic, but unique tricks. GM may be wary of the extra years of servitude
User avatar
Mack
Supreme Being
Posts: 6323
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:01 am
Comment: This space for rent.
Location: Searching the Dinosaur Swamp
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Mack »

For combat oriented mages, there's the Combat Mage (Merc Adventures) and Battle Magus (FoM).
Some gave all.
Love your neighbor.
Know the facts. Know your opinion. Know the difference.
User avatar
Warshield73
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 5148
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Warshield73 »

Mack wrote:For combat oriented mages, there's the Combat Mage (Merc Adventures).

This is one of my favorite magic classes and my pre-generated character of this class that I use for convention games is always one of the most popular.

One I forgot is the Super Spy from Mercs with the magic oprtion.

Incriptus wrote:I like to say that learning magic is like learning a martial art. It's great on the street, but when you go to war, you grab a gun like everyone else.

Yes, but many times it will be a magic gun.
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider for WB 32: Lemuria, WB 33: Northern Gun 1, WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider Rifts Bestiary: Vol 1, Rifts Bestiary: Vol 2
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3430
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Hotrod »

crazyfoxdemon wrote:So I just got invited to join a Rifts game that's about to start. It'll be a phaseworld type of setting. I'm used to playing Coalition characters so I'm trying to avoid that this time around. I want to mess around with magic, but I'm not exactly sure what I should go with. The GM asked me to use my best discretion and not pick anything broken to hell and back. The other people are playing a glitter boy and a headhunter assassin. Anyone have any suggestions?


Phase world "kind of setting" is a bit nebulous. If you mean Phase World in terms of power and you want a magic user that doesn't play like a spell caster, then you might consider a True Atlantean Undead Slayer. If you mean Phase World in the sense of a space opera or planet/dimension hopping sense, then a Shifter might be handy for travel, while a Techno-Wizard might be useful for the mixed types of power.

Mostly, though, I'd want to know what kind of playstyle or character type you'd want. Two of my favorite original characters have been magic users. The first was a Scathach from England with a horrible speech impediment, and the other was an NPC antagonist: a totally nonviolent villain who used magic and drugs to subdue and either enslave or kill adversaries without violence.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3430
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Hotrod »

If you're looking for something that cuts against the grain of the Coalition-type characters you've played, you might consider trying the Herbologist or one of the herbal magic druid O.C.C.'s from England, as they are decidedly low-tech in orientation. In a spacefaring campaign, such a character could be motivated as a mystical botanist to collect samples, research them, and potentially acquire new magical capabilities. If long-distance or long-duration space travel and survivalism is a thing for this campaign, the Herbalist could be enormously useful in keeping people aboard the ship fed and breathing via hydroponics, as they can grow plants very rapidly.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
TeeAychEeMarchHare
Explorer
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:56 pm
Comment: War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by TeeAychEeMarchHare »

crazyfoxdemon wrote:
Tick wrote:[Shifters are fantastic!
Lord Magus are Great!
More subtle options... tech-wizard or Stone masters.

What do you mean about subtle in regards to stone masters?

TeeAychEeMarchHare wrote:I had a lot of fun with a Temporal Warrior way back in the day.

How does it play?


Depends on the player and GM. If you get creative and your GM isn't a "Me vs Players" type, I've yet to find a class that's a better infiltrator/thief than the Temporals. Granted, I stopped playing or even paying much attention to this game in 1997, but I started reading the books again and it seems like it's still pretty good without being a complete Munchkin class like a lot of the stuff that came later.
Too much ammo is a self-correcting problem.
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3430
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Hotrod »

Alternately, you could consider a "teammate" approach. Your party consists of a Glitter Boy and a Head-hunter. Which classes go particularly well with a heavy hitter and a partial conversion cyborg?

Techno-Wizard is an obvious choice. With telemechanics and the right mix of skills, you could repair and possibly enhance your teammates' equipment, an important ability when supporting tech-heavy warriors. Magical enhancements might also be useful, though unless they have psionics, they'll be totally dependent upon you for recharging any TW features or weapons you install. TW's can be a bit fuzzy in terms of what they can create, though, and much will depend on your relationship with the GM and how you present your creations and modifications.

You might consider taking a "cover the bases" approach. Since you've got plenty of combat power in the group as it is, bringing psionic and magical power to the group could provide them with a range of other options against powerful foes. The Mystic class is an excellent option here, and it has the additional bonus of requiring little in the way of accommodation from the GM, as you automatically get your new abilities/spells as you advance, whereas traditional casters often must learn or acquire such abilities in-game.

Finally, you might take a mission-centric approach. What kind of campaign is the GM looking to run? What sorts of adventures/themes? A band of galactic tomb raiders could probably use someone who can figure out the meaning of various writing systems; a scholarly magic user like the diabolist would be a good choice. If hunting down war criminals is the big thing, then you should probably pick a class with abilities that could help you track, approach, and ambush your quarry; a Shifter, Phase Adept, Temporal Warrior, or a Mystic could be suitable, depending on the spells/powers you choose.

A Dragon Hatchling might also be a fun choice. My personal favorite would be the Chiang-Ku and other dragons that don't have limited metamorphosis time windows, especially if you're going to be stuck in spacecraft or space suits for long periods of time. The Chiang-Ku has the additional bonus of being able to bestow magic tattoos on yourself/teammates.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
Eagle
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:31 pm

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Eagle »

Here's a quick overview of the bonuses/drawbacks for playing different types of mage:

Ley Line Walker (i.e., the standard wizard) -- Good: access to most types of spells and a large PPE base
Bad: lack many cool special abilities, and until you get the big nasty spells (which the GM may not make available) most of your combat will still involve shooting people with guns

Warlocks (elemental wizards) -- Good: at level 5+ you get access to mega-powerful elemental spells, which are some of the best in the game
Bad: at levels 1-4 you basically suck; your spell selection is quite limited

Shifters (demon and monster summoners) -- Good: you're a Ley Line Walker with much better special abilities and you get demon servants
Bad: you might get eaten by one of your demon servants; if the GM lets you have powerful servants (i.e., the kind you want) you will tend to dominate the game

Techno-Wizards (mad scientist wizards) -- Good: you can make magic items, potentially making you one of the most powerful characters around
Bad: it requires lots of down time (do other characters want to sit for months while you build stuff?), the rules for building items are so vague that it's basically just "ask GM if you can do it"

Mystics (psychic wizards) -- Good: you get psionic powers and magic, and you automatically get new spells each level
Bad: you get very few spells, and have no access to the good ones until you're pretty high level; hello support character

Battle Magus (ninja wizard) -- Good: great bonuses, can get extra attacks and cool weapon tricks, gets all the nice fighty-type spells
Bad: zero versatility, you just fight good; until you get to higher levels you still probably lose to a juicer

Lord Magus (worse Ley Line Walker) -- Good: start with a lot of low level spells and decent PPE, get some nice bonuses as you go up in level, awesome character picture in book
Bad: very limited on how many higher level spells you can get

High Magus (wizard engineer/architect) -- Good: access to very high level spells very early
Bad: feels like an NPC class, little in the way of useful adventuring/combat spells, ugly picture, not enough PPE to use the best spells

Mystic Knight (evil warriors with minor magic) -- Good: immune to energy!
Bad: still just a mystic who can fight a little better, supposed to be evil which limits you in many campaigns

Tattooed Man (magic biker gang member) -- Good: with the right tattoo selection, can kick a lot of butt
Bad: not really a wizard, limited versatility, hard to find new magic tattoos as you go up in level
User avatar
Hotrod
Knight
Posts: 3430
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Hotrod »

To the above excellent summary, I'll add:

Diabolist (magic symbol scribe) -- Good: Excellent versatility, with the full selection of wards at level 1 that scale as you level and include some unique powers.
Bad: You are powerless without your prepared ward arsenal/tools. A very unique discipline that people tend to love or hate.

Summoner (magic circles) -- Good: can reliably summon tremendously powerful servants, create useful protection circles, and learn/use incredibly powerful power circles.
Bad: Preparation is everything, Power circles are rare (especially in Rifts), and people will fear/hate you if you summon the more useful servants.

Biomancy (jungle elf magic) -- Good: Cheapest resurrection in the game, can create very useful MDC weapons and self-regenerating armor.
Bad: Limited versatility and opportunities to learn more, since this magic is common only in one area of the Amazon Jungle.

Necromancer -- Good: Turn the fallen into minions, gain powers from the vanquished.
Bad: Dude, you're a necromancer. Almost everybody hates you.

Gypsy Gifted -- Good: You're like a conventional mystic, but better.
Bad: Your class is a cultural stereotype that offends some people in real life; depends on your group.

Mystic Kunzya -- Good: You're a tough, potent fighter who can make magic weapons/armor for yourself and allies.
Bad: Not much versatility.

Mystic Herbologist -- Good: plant powers are useful and mystic herbology teas can provide nice buffs.
Bad: Can't make any of the more powerful mystic herbology items (wants, charms, staves) and limited versatility. Plant powers are situational.

Scathach -- Good: Most versatile of the England druids: good fighter who can make mystic herbal teas and items as well as weapons, tools, and special, unique cauldrons.
Bad: Low PPE base means you need to use ley line nexuses or buddy up with other magic users to make the really good stuff.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
Image
Curbludgeon
Hero
Posts: 1190
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:08 am
Comment: They/Them

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

The Space Warlock in the Three Galaxies book is a really solid choice for a Phase World game. They receive most LLW benefits, some physical bonuses, and a choice for spell access; the SW either takes invocation magic like a LLW, or Warlock spells, and in either case get access to Space Magic spells. SW who take an emphasis in Air magic get additional space magic spells, so an Air/Earth Warlock gets selections from 3 fairly short but potent lists.
User avatar
Mlp7029
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:11 am

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Mlp7029 »

If just want magic then a True Atlantean Undead Slayer is cool or a Chiang-Ku Tattoo Master. No spells but lots of great magical abilities from the tattoos. Spell using class I would recommend either Ley Line Rifter or Temporal Wizard.
User avatar
Mlp7029
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:11 am

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Mlp7029 »

If you decide to play a spell caster then check out Ratty's Guide to Spells in the Guild for Magic and Psionics forum. Here are a few PPE gathering tricks I have collected from many different threads.

Fun with Life Source
Life Source is one of those spells that was specifically designed to avoid being abused. Magic and psionic healing can't recoup damage from a Life Source drain, and there are pretty significant penalties for using too much energy in this way. However, there are a few ways to get around this. While magic healing is out, you CAN still use spells that boost your SDC or transform you into an MDC creature to get the most out of this spell. Casting Superhuman Strength for example will give you an extra 30 SDC to play with until the end of the spell's duration which you can use with Life Source. Sure, your net gain is only 2 PPE, but you can cast these spells over and over and over again. At worst, Superhuman Strength pays for itself and then some.

Shifters and their entourages
Never forget that familiars, servitors, and allies can act as sources of PPE--knowingly or unknowingly, willingly or not. Obviously, your average animal familiar isn't going to do you much good in this regard, but Greater Familiar spell nets you a significantly powerful PPE battery/servitor with quite possibly significant psychic abilities as well. Also, do not underestimate the utility of the Tame Beast spell. Picking the correct creature to use the spell on is the only difficult choice--some "animal-intelligence" monsters (such as Boschala) have quite the significant PPE base and little to no magical abilities of their own.

Everybody loves a crowd
For some reason a lot of players seem to forget that PPE can be gathered from unsuspecting chumps. In a crowded city, or even just a small community, provided you haven't given people a reason to fear you can absorb a lot of energy very quickly.

Spell Storage
Time Capsule reduces the time an object ages to 1 minute for every year in the capsule. Get yourself a poster-board tube or something similar: cast Power Weapon, Frost-Blade, Speed Weapon, or any other neato-spell that enchants weapons on a weapon. Put the weapon in the capsule. Ta da! Now you have a magically prepared sword for whenever you need it and it's duration is only going to be reduced to 1 melee for every 3 months in the capsule. This technique works to store lots of things including Energy Spheres. Wroks even better if a Dimensional Pocket is used as the capsule.

PPE BATTERY
Suck all the power you can from a Nexus, Cast Time Hole, while in the Time Hole cast Energy Sphere. Poor all your remaining PPE into your Energy Sphere. You can freely meditate in your Time Hole unmolested to regain all spent PPE. Come back up to full power and cast Energy Sphere again, this time using all of your power plus the power in the first one you made. Repeat Process until you got what you need. Oh, it's also a good way to make Amulets with 50 point PPE reserves which you can also then use to make MORE POWERFUL ENERGY SPHERES HAHAHAHA!!!.... Sorry. Add in the storage scheme from the previous entry and you have indefinite duration Energy Spheres.
Colonel_Tetsuya
Champion
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Re: Mages and Combat.

I've often found that people vastly over-represent how "bad" mages are in combat. Other than a few Men-at-Arms OCCs that get serious bonuses to combat, ANY class with a decent H2H skill (the absolute bonus differences between even Basic and MA are small; Expert is a great middle ground) is perfectly fine in combat. You're not likely to have any deficiency in combat.

In short, Mages (and any "non-combative" OCC) are perfectly fine in combat. You might have one or two less attacks, and very slightly smaller bonuses to dodge/parry, etc... but not enough to be a giant difference. And you can overcome them with spells VERY easily.

Suggestions as to class will really depend on the power level of the campaign. If the GM wants things to go higher-powered (as the presence of a Glitter Boy might suggest, though a Glitter Boy with only one or two other characters to back him up isn't actually all that powerful).

Some suggestions -

Low or Average power level:
Ley Line Walker; it gets a lot of heat for being boring but its granted abilities can be quite good, and the spell selections are excellent (you can learn any invocation magic, including Space Magic and Combat Magic, at any time) - in addition to learning spells off of a certain list when you level up and meditate on a Ley Line, and learning a spell automatically while leveling up. They have a decent number of skill selections, allowing you to be as combat-friendly as you like, if you want to spend your skills that way.

Mystic Knight - spell selection is somewhat limited, but as a "Mystic" style spellcaster you get your spells as you level up, no teacher needed, and have a decent selection of psionics to boot (i believe you can get the amazing Intuitive Combat power)/ - as well as some really cool innate powers (Immunity to Energy, energy blasts from hands or eyes, recharging Energy Clips with PPE, etc) and you can even eventually get a few Super Psionics (Psi-Sword in the hands of a Mystic Knight can be pretty baller - Power Weapon and Speed Weapon + PsiSword is death on wheels). Allows you to be very useful to your party and still be VERY different from a CS/Tech Soldier type character. Most of them are Evil, but you could make that work if this is a "mercenary" style campaign, as Mystic Knights are for hire to the highest bidder. If you want to be good, you can check out the variant Mystic Knight of the White Rose (from Madhaven) - renegade "good" paladin-like Mystic Knights.

Mid-Range Power:
Both will require a GM who is OK working with you and not too adversarial.

Shifter: Amazing spell selection, amazing spell selection on level up (can get extremely high level spells that make playing a spell caster MUCH easier as early as level 2, like Energy Sphere), the ability to make a pact with a higher power (not always demons, can be gods both good or evil, etc) which can provide story hooks, and the ability to summon and control supernatural beings (usually demons but you can focus on other types if you want). GM cooperation is required to make the Pact for Power and Summoning really work out, but even as just a straight up spellcaster, their amazing spell selection and ability to choose rare spells on level up, early, is still great. And the ability to get the party home from pretty much anywhere is also always a plus.

Techno-Wizard: requires a LOT of GM cooperation. TWs are the kings of preperation. If you have time to prepare, you can be a real powerhouse. Even without a lot of time to prepare, there are some SERIOUS benefits to being a TW. The biggest is.. never having to worry about casting spells. Activating TW items is instant (one action). You can build yourself armor that has spells like Impervious to Energy and Armor of Ithan built in (so you can activate them with one action and spent PPE), convert vehicles to run on PPE/ISP, build magic optic systems, weapons converted to run on PPE, all sorts of fun stuff. You can even build PPE batteries to make sure you have enough PPE when you need it. All TWs are also major psionics (though with a very limited selection of powers), which is great since it sets your save vs psionics so low.

Both TWs and Shifters can bring a lot of power to bear with GM cooperation. Its also best to keep in mind that the game needs to be fun for the rest of the party, so even if you can, technically, solo an encounter, youll want to keep your power in-line and in check to make sure everyone is having fun.

High Power:

Temporal Mage + Good Race Selection: Ability to start at 5th level (with GM approval), native access to the extremely potent Temporal Magic spells, ability to pick ANY spells of ANY level during character creation (so you can grab the extremely good/exploitable/abusable Talisman, Energy Sphere, etc at character gen and never have to worry about the GM letting you find them). Can still learn and use all regular Invocation magic (Including Space Magic and Combat Magic). WIth a decent race selection (something MDC or with an extremely high PPE base, or innate extra attacks, etc) Temporal Mages can be a one-man wrecking crew.

Demigod: Not explicitly a spellcaster, but using the Demigod race (CB2: Pantheons of the Megaverse) allows you to pick an OCC of your choice (with some limitations - no augmented classes, etc) AND pick one ability of the Godling table - one of the powers is "gain all the powers of one of the following magic OCCS: Line Walker, Shifter, Mystic, Warlock or Necromancer") - so you could take a warrior-type OCC (something appropriate to the setting or background of your character, not necessarily a tech based soldier type class) AND gain all the powers of a Magic OCC... or even take a Magic OCC (say, Temporal Wizard) AND take the Magic power, getting essentially a second magic OCC. (See below for a character type ive been thinking up lately).

Godling: Again, not explicitly a spellcaster, but Godlings get THREE choices off of the Godling power list, and its stated that you can take the magic choice twice to gain the powers of two classes... so you could be a Godling with Line Walker + Shifter (and a third choice from the list), for instance. Unlike the Demigod, however, you dont actually get the OCC skills of a regular OCC - and skill selection for the Godling RCC is somewhat limited.

----

So, that character ive been kicking around:

Race: Demigod, Human (mortal parent was human). Doesn't affect the stats or anything, just what you appear to be. In this case, human.
Divine Parent: Isis (Pantheon of Light)
OCC choice: Mystic Knight of the White Rose
Demigod Power: (from the vague "has a power related to the divine parent" in the blocking): Can always open a Rift to, or Teleport to Cleopatras Needle in Madhaven with his/her Shifter powers. (see Madhaven for a description of the Needle and the Mystic Knights of the White Rose). May also apply to other similar artifacts/dimensional anomalies once he/she is exposed to them (GM's choice). Call this power "Dimensional Beacon".
Godling Power Choice: Magic - Shifter
Shifter OCC Link to the Supernatural - God of War (Isis), or God of Magic (Isis) - she can be either, being called out as a warrior goddess and her OCC equivalents being a Ley Line Walker, Diabolist, and Stone Master.

The character is a demigod child of Isis, perhaps from her time as Katrina Sun (it isn't stated how long before the events described in WB4 that Isis was transformed into Katrina Sun, so it could have been for some time, long enough to have given birth to this character), though this isn't necessary. Not being able to be burdened with taking care of a child, she left the child with the Mystic Knights of the White Rose in Madhaven, where the child would also be protected by her Mutant worshippers as well.

The character doesn't know he/she is a demigod, necessarily, merely that he/she is supernaturally gifted in ways a normal human isnt. He/She was raised to be a Mystic Knight, but also developed the powers of a Shifter, and, since the Knights are aware of the truth about Cleopatra's Needle, and aware of Isis, he reached out to her for his/her Link to the Supernatural.

Be aware that this character is VERY powerful - all the powers of a Mystic Knight, a natural MDC creature with supernatural attributes, a higher PPE base than a traditional Mystic Knight, AND all the spellcasting prowess and dimension-traveling powers of a Shifter (in addition to automatically learning all Invocation magic of his/her current level and lower, in addition to whatever they learn conventionally). There are VERY few weaknesses. YOu'd have to temper it with good roleplaying and some deliberate stepping-back (unless the GM is going for galaxy-spanning craziness).
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.
dreicunan
Hero
Posts: 1344
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:49 am

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by dreicunan »

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Re: Mages and Combat.

I've often found that people vastly over-represent how "bad" mages are in combat. Other than a few Men-at-Arms OCCs that get serious bonuses to combat, ANY class with a decent H2H skill (the absolute bonus differences between even Basic and MA are small; Expert is a great middle ground) is perfectly fine in combat. You're not likely to have any deficiency in combat.

In short, Mages (and any "non-combative" OCC) are perfectly fine in combat. You might have one or two less attacks, and very slightly smaller bonuses to dodge/parry, etc... but not enough to be a giant difference. And you can overcome them with spells VERY easily.

Suggestions as to class will really depend on the power level of the campaign. If the GM wants things to go higher-powered (as the presence of a Glitter Boy might suggest, though a Glitter Boy with only one or two other characters to back him up isn't actually all that powerful).

Some suggestions -

Low or Average power level:
Ley Line Walker; it gets a lot of heat for being boring but its granted abilities can be quite good, and the spell selections are excellent (you can learn any invocation magic, including Space Magic and Combat Magic, at any time) - in addition to learning spells off of a certain list when you level up and meditate on a Ley Line, and learning a spell automatically while leveling up. They have a decent number of skill selections, allowing you to be as combat-friendly as you like, if you want to spend your skills that way.

Mystic Knight - spell selection is somewhat limited, but as a "Mystic" style spellcaster you get your spells as you level up, no teacher needed, and have a decent selection of psionics to boot (i believe you can get the amazing Intuitive Combat power)/ - as well as some really cool innate powers (Immunity to Energy, energy blasts from hands or eyes, recharging Energy Clips with PPE, etc) and you can even eventually get a few Super Psionics (Psi-Sword in the hands of a Mystic Knight can be pretty baller - Power Weapon and Speed Weapon + PsiSword is death on wheels). Allows you to be very useful to your party and still be VERY different from a CS/Tech Soldier type character. Most of them are Evil, but you could make that work if this is a "mercenary" style campaign, as Mystic Knights are for hire to the highest bidder. If you want to be good, you can check out the variant Mystic Knight of the White Rose (from Madhaven) - renegade "good" paladin-like Mystic Knights.

Mid-Range Power:
Both will require a GM who is OK working with you and not too adversarial.

Shifter: Amazing spell selection, amazing spell selection on level up (can get extremely high level spells that make playing a spell caster MUCH easier as early as level 2, like Energy Sphere), the ability to make a pact with a higher power (not always demons, can be gods both good or evil, etc) which can provide story hooks, and the ability to summon and control supernatural beings (usually demons but you can focus on other types if you want). GM cooperation is required to make the Pact for Power and Summoning really work out, but even as just a straight up spellcaster, their amazing spell selection and ability to choose rare spells on level up, early, is still great. And the ability to get the party home from pretty much anywhere is also always a plus.

Techno-Wizard: requires a LOT of GM cooperation. TWs are the kings of preperation. If you have time to prepare, you can be a real powerhouse. Even without a lot of time to prepare, there are some SERIOUS benefits to being a TW. The biggest is.. never having to worry about casting spells. Activating TW items is instant (one action). You can build yourself armor that has spells like Impervious to Energy and Armor of Ithan built in (so you can activate them with one action and spent PPE), convert vehicles to run on PPE/ISP, build magic optic systems, weapons converted to run on PPE, all sorts of fun stuff. You can even build PPE batteries to make sure you have enough PPE when you need it. All TWs are also major psionics (though with a very limited selection of powers), which is great since it sets your save vs psionics so low.

Both TWs and Shifters can bring a lot of power to bear with GM cooperation. Its also best to keep in mind that the game needs to be fun for the rest of the party, so even if you can, technically, solo an encounter, youll want to keep your power in-line and in check to make sure everyone is having fun.

High Power:

Temporal Mage + Good Race Selection: Ability to start at 5th level (with GM approval), native access to the extremely potent Temporal Magic spells, ability to pick ANY spells of ANY level during character creation (so you can grab the extremely good/exploitable/abusable Talisman, Energy Sphere, etc at character gen and never have to worry about the GM letting you find them). Can still learn and use all regular Invocation magic (Including Space Magic and Combat Magic). WIth a decent race selection (something MDC or with an extremely high PPE base, or innate extra attacks, etc) Temporal Mages can be a one-man wrecking crew.

Demigod: Not explicitly a spellcaster, but using the Demigod race (CB2: Pantheons of the Megaverse) allows you to pick an OCC of your choice (with some limitations - no augmented classes, etc) AND pick one ability of the Godling table - one of the powers is "gain all the powers of one of the following magic OCCS: Line Walker, Shifter, Mystic, Warlock or Necromancer") - so you could take a warrior-type OCC (something appropriate to the setting or background of your character, not necessarily a tech based soldier type class) AND gain all the powers of a Magic OCC... or even take a Magic OCC (say, Temporal Wizard) AND take the Magic power, getting essentially a second magic OCC. (See below for a character type ive been thinking up lately).

Godling: Again, not explicitly a spellcaster, but Godlings get THREE choices off of the Godling power list, and its stated that you can take the magic choice twice to gain the powers of two classes... so you could be a Godling with Line Walker + Shifter (and a third choice from the list), for instance. Unlike the Demigod, however, you dont actually get the OCC skills of a regular OCC - and skill selection for the Godling RCC is somewhat limited.

----

So, that character ive been kicking around:

Race: Demigod, Human (mortal parent was human). Doesn't affect the stats or anything, just what you appear to be. In this case, human.
Divine Parent: Isis (Pantheon of Light)
OCC choice: Mystic Knight of the White Rose
Demigod Power: (from the vague "has a power related to the divine parent" in the blocking): Can always open a Rift to, or Teleport to Cleopatras Needle in Madhaven with his/her Shifter powers. (see Madhaven for a description of the Needle and the Mystic Knights of the White Rose). May also apply to other similar artifacts/dimensional anomalies once he/she is exposed to them (GM's choice). Call this power "Dimensional Beacon".
Godling Power Choice: Magic - Shifter
Shifter OCC Link to the Supernatural - God of War (Isis), or God of Magic (Isis) - she can be either, being called out as a warrior goddess and her OCC equivalents being a Ley Line Walker, Diabolist, and Stone Master.

The character is a demigod child of Isis, perhaps from her time as Katrina Sun (it isn't stated how long before the events described in WB4 that Isis was transformed into Katrina Sun, so it could have been for some time, long enough to have given birth to this character), though this isn't necessary. Not being able to be burdened with taking care of a child, she left the child with the Mystic Knights of the White Rose in Madhaven, where the child would also be protected by her Mutant worshippers as well.

The character doesn't know he/she is a demigod, necessarily, merely that he/she is supernaturally gifted in ways a normal human isnt. He/She was raised to be a Mystic Knight, but also developed the powers of a Shifter, and, since the Knights are aware of the truth about Cleopatra's Needle, and aware of Isis, he reached out to her for his/her Link to the Supernatural.

Be aware that this character is VERY powerful - all the powers of a Mystic Knight, a natural MDC creature with supernatural attributes, a higher PPE base than a traditional Mystic Knight, AND all the spellcasting prowess and dimension-traveling powers of a Shifter (in addition to automatically learning all Invocation magic of his/her current level and lower, in addition to whatever they learn conventionally). There are VERY few weaknesses. YOu'd have to temper it with good roleplaying and some deliberate stepping-back (unless the GM is going for galaxy-spanning craziness).

That is an awesome and appropriately flavorful character concept.
Axelmania wrote:You of course, being the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not.
Declared the ultimate authority on what is an error and what is not by Axelmania on 5.11.19.
User avatar
Blue_Lion
Knight
Posts: 6226
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Clone Lab 27

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Personally for magic in phase world I tend to favor shifters or TWs.
Shifters can magically travel to any world they step foot on two times. As most inhabited worlds have ley lines running in space you can use the ley lines to teleport to the planet and recharge PPE. Basically as a shifter you never need to worry about getting lost in space or stuck some where. Then you can use your summoning to get redshirts to die for you.

TWs and the smith class from the united warlocks-have magic and can help maintain a star ship. You can also add magic to the space ship, sustain to increase life support. Magic cloaking device (improve invisibility) armor spells are a poor choice. upgrading space suits with sustain spell allows for prolonged time in uninhabited planets. With the write spells you have all the time you need to fix a ship or wait for help.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
Colonel_Tetsuya
Champion
Posts: 2172
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Colonel_Tetsuya »

Spells and You: How to get the most out of your spells

First thing first: i get a LOT of mileage out of the Combat Magic introduced in the Adventure Sourcebook (5?): Mercenary Adventures. Despite the terrible fluff ("real mages dont like this magic because it is considered primitive blah blah blah") its readily available to be purchased (there are no spells of this type that are above the "you can usually just buy this" level) because there is a school that teaches it in MercTown on Rifts Earth. Further, despite being called out as "Combat Magic", they are just basic incantation spells. (Like "Space Magic" from Dimension Book 13: Fleets of the Three Galaxies)

excellent spells to learn and how to make the best use out of them:

Globe of Daylight - can ward off Vamps and other light-sensitive baddies. No real "tricks" to its usage, but its a staple for a reason
Chameleon - amazing for Stealth. Amazing added to armor or a vehicle if you're playing a TW.
Armor of Ithan - should be obvious. Its "free" MDC armor - for the whole party! Youll need a ruling on wether or not the GM thinks Armor type spells stack. If they do, Armor Bizzare and Invincible Armor also go on this list. If not, just use the best one you have.
Impervious to Fire - worth knowing because it is CHEAP and can render you immune to plasma weapons.
Invisibility: Simple - worth using even if you know Superior, because it doesn't break when you enter combat/take hostile action, and makes anyone who cant see through the invisibility -9 to hit you!
Carpet of Adehsion - can single-handedly end encounters if the GM has the bad guys grouped up, and can render even a "big bad" severely impeded. Can also be used in interesting ways with other spells.
Energy Field - cheap AOE MDC barrier. Great for soaking up a few hits while you dive for cover. Can be placed around an object, and depending on your GMs call, is potentially mobile (It doesnt say it is immobile, so if it is placed on an object or person and that person/thing moves.. the field should move with it). If the GM allows it to move, this can be instant cover for a downed friend - put it on a rock and toss the rock near him, for instance. Great spell.
Shadow Meld - invisibility in Shadows, except that nothing pierces it - not even See the Invisible. Only IR/thermal optics can see you.
Impervious to Energy: Self explanatory - Makes you Impervious to all Energy attacks, which means about ~80% of the weapons most people use. Hugely powerful. Can be put into armor and vehicles if you're playing a TW.
Superhuman Strength - gives you a Supernatural PS of 30 and raises your PE to 24, and 30 SDC. Great in a melee if you aren't already supernatural. Can be given to others, as well.
Superhuman Speed - gives you an etremely high SPD attribute (44), and +6 to dodge and +2 to parry! Can be given to party members!
Teleport: Lesser - the gift that keeps on giving. High range, low cost object movement. Paired with intelligent planning and either psi sensitive powers, technological cameras/observation tech, or even a good old telescope, this can be one of the most potent spells you can take at lower levels. (This spells requires the area you're sending the object to be "known to you" - if you can actively see it, this counts). Party of bad guys over that hill 2 miles away? Teleport a Carpet of Adhesion onto them. FOllow it up with a few grenades, or fusion blocks. BOOM. This can be used to take out heavy vehicles from a long distance if you have the right skills in the party (teleport a few fusion blocks onto that enemy Glitter Boy from 5+ miles away. Kbang, he's out of commission).
Fly as the Eagle - rather self explanatory. Lets you fly. Can be given to party members.
Globe of Silence - neutralize enemy spellcasters.
Invisibility: Superior - great because it protects against being seen via sensors and the like. Even stops sense of smell from detecting you. Drops when you take a hostile action, but can be layered with Simple Invisibility.
Lightblade - great damage, and even more damage to most undead/vampires.
Magical-Adrenal Rush - gives you supernatural Str, 50% bonus to SPD (stacks with superhuman speed), +2 attacks per round, makes you immune to mind control, illusions, possession, and drugs/toxins, and a few other bonuses.
Power Weapon - makes an already MDC melee weapon do 25% more damage or an SDC weapon do its equivalent in MDC. Combine with Lightblade for an instant +10 MD done. Combine with Speed Weapon (which is harder to come by, being level 10+) for even more insanity.
-Combat Magic-
Farseeing - lets you see 2 miles and can be combined with any other vision enhancing spells (like See the Invisible, see Aura, etc)
Mystic Marksmanship - +3 to strike on your next ranged attack, can be given to party members. SUper cheap.
Quickaction - +10 to the next defensive action. Allows you to beat natural 20s! (if your combined roll is 5 higher than theirs!)
Quickstrike - +7 to a melee offensive ation, or +3 with a ranged attack - stacks with Mystic Marksmanship. Allows you to beat natural 20s! (if your combined roll is 5 higher than theirs)
Stealthwalk - makes you totally silent, large Prowl bonus or a low base prowl roll if you dont have the skill. Can be combined with things like Invisibility. Have to move at half your SPD.
Superhuman Agility - +5 to dodge (and other defensive bonuses), also lets you Auto-Dodge at +5. Automatically pass all roll with punch/fall/explosion/impact rolls.
Invisibility to Sensors - what it says, and makes this spell INCREDIBLY powerful when combined with Invisibility: Simple; since Invisibility: Simple does not break when you take hostile actions, and neither does Invisibility to Sensors, and the only things that can see through Simple Invisibility are some sensors (like thermal vision, IR sensors, etc) and See the Invisible... this renders all but See the Invisible useless. Also negates any bonuses anyone gets to strike you because of sensors on top of the -9 to hit imposed by Simple Invisibility. But wait, it gets better... (see Mystic Invisibility, just a bit below).
Blast Shield - an amazing anti-missile defense. Creates a 10ft sphere that channels the explosions of any type of explosive (missiles, grenades, etc) up and over it. THose inside take zero damage. Doesn't matter if you got hit with a 900MDC blast from a pair of LRMs.
Fighting Spirit - 2 extra attacks per melee, several combat bonuses (strike, parry, dodge), grants paired weapons. Stacks with Magical Adrenal Rush.
Mystic Invisibility: Completing the trifecta, stacking Invisibility: Simple, Invisibility to Sensors, and this wonderful spell, which makes you invisible to magical, psionic, and supernatural senses/spells/abilities. The three spells combined basically make you 100% invisible to everything. Add in Stealth Walk for good measure. Even protects you against being sensed by a Dog Boy or Psi Stalker or equivalent.
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.
User avatar
Tick
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:05 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Help Picking Magic Class

Unread post by Tick »

re: More subtle options... tech-wizard or Stone masters.

They can hide the use of their magic with devices and stones. Pretty much using the item as a guise of, "I have no powers, it was all the machine. You should study that more. I have to get my grandmother for lunch now..." Sneaks away from trouble.
hahahaha :D :lol:
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”