Immortal Motivation

[Alrik Vas]

First off: This discussion excludes Gods.

So, you are an immortal creature. You exist in the temporal flow, but considering you'll never die, does it really mean anything to you?

Even if someone captures and tortures you for a thousand years, it's still only 1000 years. You might love others, but for 30, 50, 100 years at a time?

What is power to that character
Person? What motivates them to take action? Honestly, how long can you manage on ideals, emotions, even boredom?

We're talking about a PC style character. Think a soldier o or vagabond that suddenly finds themselves "blessed" with immortality, not just unaging, but complete regeneration, even from being atomized.

After a few hundred thousand years, why would they bother?

[say652]

That is the supreme power rut.

At what point is it so boring to just say, yea Imma sit here and drink this beer and watch juicer football, you guys go kill stuff make credits, I'm good.

[Nekira Sudacne]

First off: This discussion excludes Gods.

So, you are an immortal creature. You exist in the temporal flow, but considering you'll never die, does it really mean anything to you?

Even if someone captures and tortures you for a thousand years, it's still only 1000 years. You might love others, but for 30, 50, 100 years at a time?

What is power to that character
Person? What motivates them to take action? Honestly, how long can you manage on ideals, emotions, even boredom?

We're talking about a PC style character. Think a soldier o or vagabond that suddenly finds themselves "blessed" with immortality, not just unaging, but complete regeneration, even from being atomized.

After a few hundred thousand years, why would they bother?

Immortal beings would just hang out with other immortal beings and more or less live lives as they please. Immortal races are not exactly uncommon in palladium, heck with sea titans a very high precentage of humanity will be immortal in a few thousand years.

[Alrik Vas]

So you think they're entirely normal...I don't buy it. AI, Gods and the like are different than mortals who gain immortality.

When you can't die, and you've lived for longer than you can even recollect, what matters?

[say652]

The only constant, you.

[Nekira Sudacne]

So you think they're entirely normal...I don't buy it. AI, Gods and the like are different than mortals who gain immortality.

When you can't die, and you've lived for longer than you can even recollect, what matters?

Humans are far more passionate than that. and if anything our short term memories will help. Sure, you don't really remember what your hometown is like. but you ARE comfortable in your current city, and this guy is trash talking you, so you're going to get angry and do something. being so old, you may have a lot more tricks than mere violence to use, but I don't buy for a second that being immortal means you automatically become Emo.

Sure, the "The ancient immortal being is tired of life and is looking for a way to finnally die" is an old trope, but it's not a good idea to use that trope for EVERY immortal. just like it's a bad idea to take any other sterotype and apply it to an entire catagory.

I think people are people no matter how old they get. They will change. if you somehow went back in time and brought them someone from their childhood, they would probablly be going "Who IS this guy" to each-other. but they won't automatically go emo about it.

[eliakon]

You are likely to run into someone that is very similar to a Taoist....they do what ever they feel like at the moment because 'meh'.
Amusement of self would likely become their primary drive. Possibly very long term ones.
"Okay James, you win this round. But I bet that I can get an Unfallen Cosmoknight on the Board of Naruni before you can."

Another option is simply to erase your memories every so often. Just because you have done this all before, if you don't remember it then its still new and amusing.

Eventually though....suicidal ennui may set in and they may seek annihilation. And well if they have to undo all of reality itself to die then so be it.......

[Tags]

Well my Dragon God was obsessed with knowledge, especially magic.

[say652]

My Supernatural Intelligence is rather lazy unmotivated and forgetful.

He doesn't feed, have any weaknesses etc. Sooo he has no motivation to do much.

[Slight001]

Depends upon the individual. A cop out I know, but this is also the truth.

I can see an individual being just fine with being immortal and not really losing themselves. However, I can also see an individual that begins to lose touch with their humanity and begins to see themselves as better than the "flicker lives"... perhaps they even begin to think of themselves as a god.

[Alrik Vas]

I think biology has a lot to do with it, as well. An old person doesn't act the way they do purely because of experience, it's also how their body changes, brain chemistry shifts and suddenly you aren't as angry when someone tries to pull your card because you aren't as full of testosterone as you used to be.

I agree everyone can be different, but there are a lot of reasons a majority can come to the same end. Death is such a part of our lives and we live with it hanging over us. Someone who is free of that concept is going to be more different.

I think it wise to keep in mind motivation itself isn't immortal.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think biology has a lot to do with it, as well. An old person doesn't act the way they do purely because of experience, it's also how their body changes, brain chemistry shifts and suddenly you aren't as angry when someone tries to pull your card because you aren't as full of testosterone as you used to be.

I agree everyone can be different, but there are a lot of reasons a majority can come to the same end. Death is such a part of our lives and we live with it hanging over us. Someone who is free of that concept is going to be more different.

I think it wise to keep in mind motivation itself isn't immortal.

What makes you think immortal beings have the same bio-chemistry at 100 as an unaging human?

For example, Sea Titans are born mortal, and only become immortal at puberty, although their bodies continue to develop until adulthood. It should be safe to say therefore that the teenage bio-chemical drive to go places and see new things never actually stops and their brain chemistry never passes by that point. if anything, their immortality would encourage such wanderlust, constantly seeing new places and new people (new worlds or new dimensions even) to keep things fresh. Exploration is it's own reward no matter how much you forget or how long you live. it's a whole wide megaverse to explore. you'll never run out of things to do.

[Bill]

Pick a cause and run with it a century or two. Change your mind and do it again. Get in some sight seeing and exploring while you're at it. Maybe write a few books. If you've got all the time in the megaverse, why stick with one thing?

[eliakon]

Write the definitive history of a race. From its evolution to sentience until the last member dies off and it goes extinct.

Sure it might take a couple billion years of field work, but hey, what else were you doing.
(The line from the musical Big River comes to mind "I bet you could teach a hog to smoke a cigarette. Might take a while, but heck. What's time to a hog.)

[Tags]

Vandal Savage went on a world domination bender, he even tried being Hitler for a while. He did succeed once then regretted it so that may be a lesson .

[glitterboy2098]

Highlander principle. every few decades your going to have to reinvent your identity anyway to hide your immortality. so you throw yourself into various aspects of society whenever you get bored with what your doing. for a few decades you study to be say, a doctor. then perhaps a priest. a soldier. a sailor. etc. the longer it's been since you were one of those roles the less you remember about it, details and skill wise, but that just means you can cycle through and relearn something again after a couple hundred years.

[eliakon]

I am reminded of the True Immortal from the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series. Who was working his way through insulting every sentient being in creation. In alphabetical order.
Everyone needs a hobby right?

[flatline]

Motivations change with time.

[Killer Cyborg]

First off: This discussion excludes Gods.

So, you are an immortal creature. You exist in the temporal flow, but considering you'll never die, does it really mean anything to you?

Even if someone captures and tortures you for a thousand years, it's still only 1000 years. You might love others, but for 30, 50, 100 years at a time?

What is power to that character
Person? What motivates them to take action? Honestly, how long can you manage on ideals, emotions, even boredom?

We're talking about a PC style character. Think a soldier o or vagabond that suddenly finds themselves "blessed" with immortality, not just unaging, but complete regeneration, even from being atomized.

After a few hundred thousand years, why would they bother?

Why do we bother now?

[Alrik Vas]

We bother now because time is running out. It's instinct.

[Nekira Sudacne]

We bother now because time is running out. It's instinct.

So you would stop doing anything if you became immortal tommorrow? I highly doubt it.

[Killer Cyborg]

We bother now because time is running out. It's instinct.

I don't think that's my motivation in life.

[Glistam]

Various authors have addressed immortals in a variety of ways throughout fiction. Based on that I would say their attitudes vary wildly. I do feel like many of them strive to keep finding "new" things to do and/or experience. I don't think I have read or seen many who are melancholy/emo about the whole endeavor - at least not for long, anyway.

[Alrik Vas]

It would take time to realize that immortal life isn't human life. Of course it wouldn't be tomorrow. Considering the course of conversation, I find the suggestion a bit off putting.

It could be a thousand years, a hundred, whatever. Eventually though, I think the realization will come and be crushing, debilitating. It won't last forever, but it will happen.

And motivation to act now and a hundred thousand years from now could be so alien from each other that we as mortals might not even grasp it. So saying what you are now will be you for eternity is an unverified assumption at best.

Same as the rest of this, true, but let me point out that depression is pretty powerful. Not everyone is susceptible to it, not in the same way, at least, but it sounds like it's being discarded and I can't help but think there isn't enough thought going into how long forever can be and how monotonous even something exciting can become.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It would take time to realize that immortal life isn't human life. Of course it wouldn't be tomorrow. Considering the course of conversation, I find the suggestion a bit off putting.

It could be a thousand years, a hundred, whatever. Eventually though, I think the realization will come and be crushing, debilitating. It won't last forever, but it will happen.

And motivation to act now and a hundred thousand years from now could be so alien from each other that we as mortals might not even grasp it. So saying what you are now will be you for eternity is an unverified assumption at best.

Same as the rest of this, true, but let me point out that depression is pretty powerful. Not everyone is susceptible to it, not in the same way, at least, but it sounds like it's being discarded and I can't help but think there isn't enough thought going into how long forever can be and how monotonous even something exciting can become.

And of course Immortals are not immune to depression. but they're no more likely to be crippled by it than anyone else. sure, occasionally an immortal might let themselves be crippled by it--see my reference of the immortal looking for a way to finnally die. but just because some immortals will do that, it dosn't mean all immortals will. You appear to be saying that crippling depression will happen to all immortals, or at least an overwhelming majority, whereas I see those that allow it to effect them that way as being in the minority. just like SOME mortals are crippled by fear of death, but far from all.

If that's not your position, prehaps you should clarify, because you were stating it as an abstract fact, that all immortals will become crippled by depression. I doubt more than a handful will be.

[Slight001]

And motivation to act now and a hundred thousand years from now could be so alien from each other that we as mortals might not even grasp it.

When I was writing an old story about an immortal warrior I ended up rewriting it and instead of having the story be from the immortals perspective I wrote it from the perspective of those following in his path.

Same as the rest of this, true, but let me point out that depression is pretty powerful. Not everyone is susceptible to it, not in the same way, at least, but it sounds like it's being discarded and I can't help but think there isn't enough thought going into how long forever can be and how monotonous even something exciting can become.

As someone who has struggled with depression off and on for his entire life. I can honestly tell you that I certainly don't discount the power of something so insidious.

[eliakon]

I don't discount the power of depression. I would question if it would be a permanent default state for all immortals. They may suffer from bouts of depression, just like anyone else....but I would think that they can get over it as well.
Especially since its not like they don't have time to try for treatment, or to spend some time looking for something else to do.
Sure, you might be depressed for a year, or a decade, or a millennium....but unless you were biologically depressed before hand I do not think that you would have some sort of "Okay sorry it has been X years, you will now be depressed for ever and ever amen." state.
Some of them may. Some may not. Some may complain that trillions of years from now as the Megaverse dies its final death that they didn't get to finish everything.

[say652]

Depression, I am sure most immortals always feel alone, these are just temporary voices etc,
And boredom.

Where's the fun if you can't die, don't require anything to survive, have our have had everything you could ever want.

[eliakon]

Depression, I am sure most immortals always feel alone, these are just temporary voices etc,
And boredom.

Where's the fun if you can't die, don't require anything to survive, have our have had everything you could ever want.

Socialize with other immortals?
And unless you have other abilities, you still have to get things/information/whatever you want. It is easier to pick up those abilities of course (take the time to pick up a magic OCC or five for instance....). But unless your an enlightened Taoist who wants for nothing (who already would probably be happy....) you still need to work to get stuff. Actually this might be motivation.
"great, the nations change. Again. Now I have to go out and get a supply of the new money." *sighs*

[flatline]

I outlive my pets. That doesn't make me depressed or prevent me from getting new pets.

[Mack]

Well, one could always take the Bowerick Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged approach.

[say652]

If your immortality requires you to feed at least you have a reason for the ultimate being to be out an about.

[Killer Cyborg]

Depression, I am sure most immortals always feel alone, these are just temporary voices etc,
And boredom.

Where's the fun if you can't die, don't require anything to survive, have our have had everything you could ever want.

There's always more to want.

[taalismn]

The Megaverse gives variety to immortals; you're not stuck on one planet waiting for the mayflies to nuke or eat themselves out of existence, and you're not stuck in one universe waiting for its heat death. You can travel about, looking for new experiences, like seeing universes be born or die, or search for some greater meaning behind it.
Beyond the sickly indulgent, the may-as-well-be-dead, and the manipulators, immortals tend to be rather quixotic in looking for the next level of being beyond immortals.

[RockJock]

At some point they all start wearing trenchcoats and hiding swords somewhere.

[say652]

I have played one for several sessions, I had his mind chopped up by psionic powers, implant memory, mind wipe, new memory all kinds of jacked up stuff.
That's PowerSurges history.

[say652]

At some point they all start wearing trenchcoats and hiding swords somewhere.

If I had a nickel. Lol.

[Tags]

I have played one for several sessions, I had his mind chopped up by psionic powers, implant memory, mind wipe, new memory all kinds of jacked up stuff.
That's PowerSurges history.

I killed my party twice, killed a rune weapon, released Lovecraftian evil on the universe, died once, destroyed a splugorth colony... ahhh good times.

[glitterboy2098]

The Megaverse gives variety to immortals; you're not stuck on one planet waiting for the mayflies to nuke or eat themselves out of existence, and you're not stuck in one universe waiting for its heat death. You can travel about, looking for new experiences, like seeing universes be born or die, or search for some greater meaning behind it.
Beyond the sickly indulgent, the may-as-well-be-dead, and the manipulators, immortals tend to be rather quixotic in looking for the next level of being beyond immortals.

depending on the type of immortal, i wouldn't be surprised if a few wound up being worshipped as gods on some places.

[wyrmraker]

I have played one for several sessions, I had his mind chopped up by psionic powers, implant memory, mind wipe, new memory all kinds of jacked up stuff.
That's PowerSurges history.

I killed my party twice, killed a rune weapon, released Lovecraftian evil on the universe, died once, destroyed a splugorth colony... ahhh good times.

Both of those scenarios sound like REALLY good times. If only I could find a GM who could do it right. Or a party that could handle those sorts of things without screaming at me as the GM...

[Tags]

I have played one for several sessions, I had his mind chopped up by psionic powers, implant memory, mind wipe, new memory all kinds of jacked up stuff.
That's PowerSurges history.

I killed my party twice, killed a rune weapon, released Lovecraftian evil on the universe, died once, destroyed a splugorth colony... ahhh good times.

Both of those scenarios sound like REALLY good times. If only I could find a GM who could do it right. Or a party that could handle those sorts of things without screaming at me as the GM...

The party killings were accidents and bad rolls.

Our GM was awesome, sadly the group imploded... ;( It was a God campaign, very interesting set up too. We wound up on world on which the Promethean would sell parts, and owners would mine them out, course if you didn't mark areas with runes earth elementals would fill it back in.

Had a son of Ra never figured his motivations, had my Dragon God who was obsessed with knowledge and magic, had a daughter of Death, guess her motivation was preserving the sanctity of Death.

[SpiritInterface]

First off: This discussion excludes Gods.

So, you are an immortal creature. You exist in the temporal flow, but considering you'll never die, does it really mean anything to you?

What did it mean to you before you became Immortal?

Even if someone captures and tortures you for a thousand years, it's still only 1000 years. You might love others, but for 30, 50, 100 years at a time?

Out living your enemies is the best revenge. As for love, unless you are going to give up Human emotion Love, Hate... and the rest is something you are going to have to deal with. there might be gaps of varying lengths but friends, enemies, rival, and lovers will always be of you life.

What is power to that character Person?

What it normally is to people, a means to an end. A comfortable life, security, fulfilling a goal, satisfying a want or need, just about anything you can think of.

What motivates them to take action? Honestly, how long can you manage on ideals, emotions, even boredom?

This has been touched on in many sci/fi and fantasy writings and the answer has been so varied. There have been ways to escape the ennui of immortality, from going to "sleep" for tens to thousands of years from time to time, physical and psychologically caused amnesia, some sort of self interest, even boredom and looking for something to do.
Robert Adams Horseclans series has several different takes on this.

We're talking about a PC style character. Think a soldier o or vagabond that suddenly finds themselves "blessed" with immortality, not just unaging, but complete regeneration, even from being atomized.

After a few hundred thousand years, why would they bother?

Nothing last forever, in everything I have read or watched that touched on this subject there is always an ending to the Immortal. Even Cpt. Jack Harkness a fixed point in time and space came to an end eventually.

For game purposes the question is left up to the player to answer and if you can't answer it you may need to think of a different character type.

My Human Immortal warrior does what he does because he is good at it and he has built a personal code that helps him define himself.


p.s. Sorry for not writing it as a single paragraph answer.

[Alrik Vas]

I don't think the concept is being grasped. Stories are written to entertain. I can see a hero, a motivated character who always fights the negative as an immortal, yeah. They might never get depressed, might always look forward, will keep the memories of the billions of loved ones they've had throughout their existence as precious and see them as individuals. Ok.

That'll be less than 1% in my opinion.

That doesn't mean the rest will be emotional messes that are crippled into doing nothing, but being immortal doesn't necessarily make you an exceptional person mentally and eternity can put a lot of wear and tear on your mind.

[flatline]

I don't think the concept is being grasped. Stories are written to entertain. I can see a hero, a motivated character who always fights the negative as an immortal, yeah. They might never get depressed, might always look forward, will keep the memories of the billions of loved ones they've had throughout their existence as precious and see them as individuals. Ok.

That'll be less than 1% in my opinion.

That doesn't mean the rest will be emotional messes that are crippled into doing nothing, but being immortal doesn't necessarily make you an exceptional person mentally and eternity can put a lot of wear and tear on your mind.

I understand what you're getting at, but I disagree. After you've outlived several generations of friends, you get used to it. Sure, some might become disfunctional, but for species that are naturally immortal, it would be uncommon since they would have been prepared for their immortality by their biology and their culture.

Heck, simply knowing that you're going to outlive someone changes the way you look at the relationship (this is what I was trying to point out with my earlier post about outliving pets).

--flatline

[Nightmask]

I don't think the concept is being grasped. Stories are written to entertain. I can see a hero, a motivated character who always fights the negative as an immortal, yeah. They might never get depressed, might always look forward, will keep the memories of the billions of loved ones they've had throughout their existence as precious and see them as individuals. Ok.

That'll be less than 1% in my opinion.

That doesn't mean the rest will be emotional messes that are crippled into doing nothing, but being immortal doesn't necessarily make you an exceptional person mentally and eternity can put a lot of wear and tear on your mind.

I understand what you're getting at, but I disagree. After you've outlived several generations of friends, you get used to it. Sure, some might become disfunctional, but for species that are naturally immortal, it would be uncommon since they would have been prepared for their immortality by their biology and their culture.

Heck, simply knowing that you're going to outlive someone changes the way you look at the relationship (this is what I was trying to point out with my earlier post about outliving pets).

--flatline

This is a current plot point in Schlock Mercenary after nanotech immortality was revealed to exist to the general galactic population and made available to everyone, having to reshape how you perceive things by looking at time scales across not just thousands but potentially millions of years, and revealed what was left of one race that went immortal over 13 million years prior and how they dealt with the problem.

[say652]

Idear!

Immortal with shapeshifting and multiple personalities.
When the personality changes so does the appearance.

[Alrik Vas]

With races that are naturally immortal, I can see that. Though I have reservations about normal people suddenly made immortal.

[Killer Cyborg]

With races that are naturally immortal, I can see that. Though I have reservations about normal people suddenly made immortal.

Some percentage couldn't handle it.
Others would kick back and spend their lives playing x-box and getting high.
Others would be productive.
Just like any other life, only longer.

The thing is, most people at their hearts already believe in their own immortality. They've never died before, and they don't know what it would feel like, so on a core level they don't really believe that it could happen to them. They only understand it in a technical sense.
KNOWING that it couldn't happen to them wouldn't be likely to change their behavior a whole lot.

[SpiritInterface]

With races that are naturally immortal, I can see that. Though I have reservations about normal people suddenly made immortal.

For a real life glimpse at how people would react substitute sudden massive wealth for immortality. Just look at how "common people" react to suddenly becoming super rich over night, like lottery winners, overnight popstars, or sports stars. Look at how many burn out as opposed to being able to "handle it" and thrive.

As for the long term effects, people would have to adapt or wither away, and there is no way to predict which would happen.

[taalismn]

At some point they all start wearing trenchcoats and hiding swords somewhere.

Or traveling the universe in order to insult every living creature in that universe.
"You're a kneebiter."