Point Buy System for Attributes?

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Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by ExoKnight »

I was curious to see if anyone came up with a point buy system for Attribute generation? Kinda like how Pathfinder has the option to point buy your attributes by spending points. I like the point buy system since it takes away the randomness of the roll and keeps all PCs in the same ballpark with their attribute allocation.

One more question. How anyone added tactical combat to RIFTS? I like to use minis and was wondering how to convert speed rating to 5 foot square movement.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Akashic Soldier »

ExoKnight wrote:I was curious to see if anyone came up with a point buy system for Attribute generation? Kinda like how Pathfinder has the option to point buy your attributes by spending points. I like the point buy system since it takes away the randomness of the roll and keeps all PCs in the same ballpark with their attribute allocation.

One more question. How anyone added tactical combat to RIFTS? I like to use minis and was wondering how to convert speed rating to 5 foot square movement.


Unfortunately Palladium like life--isnt fair. Sometimes you get a bad roll and you are stuck with a 6 IQ.

Converting the speed should be easy enough to do -- I thought each point of speed was 1 foot (but I dont have the books to check currently) if thats the case than 5=1 square.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by rat_bastard »

ExoKnight wrote:I was curious to see if anyone came up with a point buy system for Attribute generation? Kinda like how Pathfinder has the option to point buy your attributes by spending points. I like the point buy system since it takes away the randomness of the roll and keeps all PCs in the same ballpark with their attribute allocation.

One more question. How anyone added tactical combat to RIFTS? I like to use minis and was wondering how to convert speed rating to 5 foot square movement.


Ok first pick a race: If your race is one that is basically identical in power to a human or is a normal human you have spent 0 points, if your race has minor traits that make him slightly superior to a human (like a True atlantian) then you have spent 1 point, if the race has clear powers that make him superior to a human (like a quick flex, Spinne or Vintex) you spend 2 points and if the race has true innate powers (dragon hatchling, demigod etc) then you have spent 3+ points. This is highly subjective so check with your GM for the amount of points your race actually costs.

Now figure out what your max possible stats are without bonus dice for exceptionable stats. For example, a human has 3d6 so his max is 18, someone with 4d6+2 in a stat's max is 26. Take those numbers and halve them, that is your base. Now you have thirty points to spend among those stats without giving yourself any exceptional stats.

Now add your OCC as normal, if you have an OCC that gives you a stat bonus in the form of a die roll add the average to the stat rather than rolling it. Example: if your class provides a +1d6 to PE you get a +3.5 (round down). Do the same with any bonuses provided by skills.

Now remember those points you spent on race earlier? You started with 6, and you get 1 every three levels, any you have not spent previously can be spent on the following:
Traits:

All characters start with six trait points (minus whatever they spent on their race) that they can spend to make modifications to their characters.

Regional Traits:
Please note you may only have one regional trait

New Alexandrian (1 point): You have lived several years in the City of New Alexandria and have taken advantage of the educational opportunity available. You gain Literacy (+10%), either WP Pistol or E-rifle or any one melee proficiency and Computer Use (+5%).

New Alexandrian Citizen
(2 points): As above, but you have completed the requirements for citizenship in New Alexandria years ago, and you also gain two technical skills of choice and either a +2 to ME or MA.

Arzno citizen (1 point): Living around techno wizards for so long has given you insight into their technology. you gain 15 PPE and can operate techno wizard devices regardless of psychic or mystical ability. you gain the Skill Vampire Lore as a secondary skill. and a +2 to strike the undead.

Japanese Tech City (1 point): You start with literacy, computer use and Basic math (+10%) and 50,000 credits in cybernetic implants or your Hand to hand skill is bumped up by one for free. You gain Literacy: Japanese at a +20%.

Russian (1 point): You start with Horseback Riding or Ride: Exotic +10%, Cybernetics: Basic (+10%) and 50,000 credits in cybernetic implants.

Mexican refugee
(1 point): You gain +2 PE, the physical labor skill and a +2 to save against mind control and horror factor. You gain the language Spanish (+20%) and literacy Spanish (+20%).

Child of Dweomer (1 point): you gain 15 PPE and Lore: Magic +10%. You gain Dragonese +10% and literacy Dragonese +10%

Psychic Traits:


Minor Psychic (1 point): You are a minor psychic as per the rules for Psychics in the character creation section of RUE.

Major Psychic (2 points): You are a master psychic as per the rules for Psychics in the character creation section of RUE.

Extra ISP (1 point): you have 20 extra ISP.

Specialist Psi Power (1 point for a normal psi power, 3 points for a super psychic power): choose one power, that power performs as if you where 4 levels higher.

Magic Traits:


Ley Touched (2 points): Pick three spells level 1-3, you can cast these spells as if you where a spell caster, your base PPE is your PE+10. Spell strength is 12 or your normal spell strength if you are a spell casting OCC.

Greater Ley touched (4 points): Pick 6 spells level 1-5, you can cast these spells as if you where a spell caster, your PPE is your PE+25. Spell strength is 12 or your normal spell strength if you are a spell casting OCC.

Extra PPE
(1 point): you gain +30 PPE.

TW Training (1 point, non psychic, non mage only): You have undergone special training to operate techno wizard devices, you gain +10 PPE. You lose this trait if you ever undergo partial or full cyborg conversion, robots without magical power sources may not take this trait.

Magic Specialist (1 point for a spell 1-8th level, 2 points for a spell 9th-15th level): Pick a spell, you cast this spell as a single action, for half the normal amount of PPE.

Armor Trained: (1 point): you suffer no negative effects for casting spells in artificial armors.

Skill Traits:



Extra Secondary Skill (1 point): Pick any secondary skill and add it to your skill list. You can also use this to make a secondary skill "professional" providing a permanent +10% bonus to that skill.

Extra Skill (2 points, 3 points if the skill is normally not permitted for your RCC/OCC): Pick any skill, you may add this to your OCC related skills or specialize in any OCC related skill. This skill is subject to all OCC skill bonuses.

Stealthy (1 Point): You gain a +5% to Prowl, Camouflage, palming and Concealment.

Silver Tongued (1 point): You gain a +5% to Diplomacy, Performance, Barter and Impersonation.

Robotic Savant
(1 point): You gain a +5% to Robot Mechanics, Robot Electronics, Artificial intelligence and Robot Fanatic.

Ranger (1 point): you gain a +5% to Tracking (people), track and Trap Animals, Undercover Ops and Perception.

Cybernetics Savant (1 point): you gain a +5% to Bioware Mechanics, Cybernetic Medicine and Cybernetics: Basic.

Lore Collector (1 point): you gain a +5% to four lore skills of choice.

Communications Specialist
(1 point): you gain a +5% to Radio Basic, Electronic Countermeasures, Laser Communications and Cryptography.

Linguist (1 point): you gain a +5% to all Written and Spoken Languages you know.

Expert Medic (1 point): you gain a +5% to First Aid, Paramedic, Medical Doctor and Biology.

Computer Expert (1 point): you gain a +5% to Computer use, Computer repair, Computer Hacking and Computer Programing.

D-Bee Specialist (1 point): you gain a +5% to Xenology, Lore: D-Bee, and you gain the written and spoken languages of one race of D-bee at +5%.

Physical Adept (1 point): you gain a +5% to to Swimming, Climbing, Gymnastics and Acrobatics.

Magical Prodigy (1 point): you gain a +5% to Lore Magic, Lore Demons & Monsters, Lore Fairies and creatures of magic and +1 to save against magic.

Mechanical Prodigy (1 point): you gain a +5% to Mechanical Engineer, Automotive Mechanics, Basic Mechanics and Locksmith.

Combat Engineer (1 point): you gain a +5% to Vehicle Engineer, Weapons Engineer, Military Fortification and Field Armorer and Munitions Expert.

Demolitions Specialist (1 point): you gain a +5% to Demolitions, Demolitions Disposal, Demolitions Disposal and Chemistry.

Gourmet (1 point): you gain a +5% to Cook, Gardening, Preserve Food and Brewing.

Crewman (1 point): you gain a +5% to Sensory Equipment, Weapon Systems, Navigation and Optic Systems

Sniper (1 point): you gain a +5% to Prowl, Optic Systems, Camouflage and +1 to strike with Rifles.

Fighter Ace (1 point): you gain a +5% to Pilot Jet Aircraft, Hover Cycles, Space Fighters and Parachuting.

Geologist (1 point): you gain a +5% to Gemology, Excavation, Archeology and Mining.

Skill Prodigy (1 point): you gain a +5% to three skills of choice. you may take this enhancement multiple times as you wish.

Physical Traits:


Bonus attributes (1 point): you gain three attribute points that you may spend on any attribute, you may use these bonus attributes to purchase exceptionable attributes. You may take this enhancement as many times as you wish.

Ambidextrous (1 point): you gain the paired weapons ability and can use two pistols, one in each hand.

Iron Body (2 points) Because of some Magical quirk you have a mega damage body, add up your SDC and Hit points and convert them to Mega damage, you also have augmented strength.

Cybered out (1+ points) you have 100,000 credits in additional funds to purchase cybernetics. You may purchase this trait multiple times.

Genetically engineered (1+ points) you start with 1 million credits worth of genetic engineering. You may purchase this trait multiple times.

Social Traits:


Honored
(1-3 Points): You have displayed uncommon valor in one of the platinum shield's war fronts and have the medal to prove it. In situations where it is obvious you are wearing your medal people with a military background tend to be more respectful towards you. For one point this honor is either the Black Skull with one lighting bolt, The undead ward for facing vampires, the silver insect, or the silver Jackal. For two points this is an uncommon valor medal such as the Skull with two bolts, the Globe of daylight talisman, the gold insect or the golden jackal. For three points this is a Spear of Athena, or a star of valor.

Marked
(1 point): Because of a colorful past you have permanent markings that command a certain amount of respect with one group. Perhaps you have a facial tattoo that marks you as a deal maker in the black market or a ritual scar that identifies you as a member of a certain magical brotherhood. To those who recognize this mark it commands respect.

All intelligent beings possess the following skills:


Perception: (IQ+MA or ME, +5% per +1 perception gets+3%/level) Perception is the measure of your awareness, it is used to spot prowling enemies and hidden objects and traps.

The Detect Ambush skill provides a +10% to perception and an additional +10% to perception and sensory equipment checks to detect prowling people and vehicles.

The Detect Concealment and Traps provides a +10% to perception and an additional +10% to perception and sensory equipment checks to detect concealed items and traps.

Willpower: (ME+ME or IQ +3%/level) Willpower is used to resist seduction, interrogation, addiction, diplomacy and barter attempts made against the character.
Interrogation and fasting provide a +5% bonus to willpower.

Diplomacy: (MA+MA or PB +3%/level) You can use this skill to persuade others to agree with your arguments, to resolve differences, and to gather valuable information or rumors from people. Public Speaking, Performance and Psychiatry all provide a +5% bonus to diplomacy.

Athletics:
(PP+PP or PS or PE +3%/level +3% for every physical skill the character has) This "skill" is used for a measure of any physical skill a normal person should be able to perform, this skill is used for ordinary physical tests like climbing a tree or doggy paddling. If a player has a skill that is better suited than athletics he uses the higher percentage. Athletics cannot be used to perform exceptional physical tasks and it takes twice as long to perform a task with athletics than it takes using a more appropriate skill.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Athos »

ExoKnight wrote:I was curious to see if anyone came up with a point buy system for Attribute generation? Kinda like how Pathfinder has the option to point buy your attributes by spending points. I like the point buy system since it takes away the randomness of the roll and keeps all PCs in the same ballpark with their attribute allocation.

One more question. How anyone added tactical combat to RIFTS? I like to use minis and was wondering how to convert speed rating to 5 foot square movement.


This might be better off in the GM forum :). This forum is more weighted towards players who think that game balance means they should be able to destory gods and alien intelligences without working up a sweat.

It has been my experience as a Rifts GM that players have always "just" rolled up their character or rolled it up with a friend, and they miraculously got incredible scores, and gee aren't they lucky. YES, a point buy is always a good idea, but how to implement it in Rifts is the question. With exploding dice on abilities, that give you a range of 3 to 30, it is VERY difficult to make a viable system, I know, I have tried and if you give people the opportunity to have a 30, they will end up with a lot in the upper teens and 20's. I would be interested to see if anyone else has tried this and what their results were.

Great topic.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by strtkwr »

What I have implemented in my game is a cross between point buying and rolling. The PC's roll up the attributes as normal, but then can shift around points from one attribute to another. Each point you raise an attribute,up to 16, costs 2 points from another attribute. Each point you raise an attribute over 16 costs 3 points from another attribute. I cannot split the points taken between two attributes, so the full 2 or 3 comes from one attribute. No attribute can go below 7 from deductions.

So, lets say my attributes were as follows:

IQ: 12
ME: 14
MA: 18
PS: 10
PP: 15
PE: 9
PB: 6
SPD: 20

If I want to raise my SPD attribute, each point I raise it by would cost me 3 points from another attribute. Each point I raise the other attributes would cost me 2 points. I could not take points away away from PB, since it is already below 7. So, lets say I wanted to raise my PB by 2 points,I wanted to raise my PP by 2, and my MA by 1. So I would need to find a total of 12 points from my other attributes in order to make this happen.

PB +1=2 points IQ
PB+1= 2 points from IQ
PP +1 (to 16)=2 points from ME
PP +1 (over 16) =3 points from SPD
MA +1 (over 18)=3 points from SPD

So my final tally would look like:

IQ: 12 -4=8
ME: 14 -2=12
MA: 18 +1=19
PS: 10
PP: 15 +2=17
PE: 9
PB: 6 +2=8
SPD: 20-6=14

This allows me to customize my character to my liking, while discouraging raising attributes to super high levels.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by rat_bastard »

No love for my point buy?
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Comrade Corsarius »

rat_bastard wrote:No love for my point buy?


Sorry, nope. I don't play much in the way of White Wolf-style point-buying games, and perhaps some people enjoy it more, but I enjoy the randomness of Palladium and such.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by ExoKnight »

Akashic Soldier wrote:
Unfortunately Palladium like life--isnt fair. Sometimes you get a bad roll and you are stuck with a 6 IQ.

Converting the speed should be easy enough to do -- I thought each point of speed was 1 foot (but I dont have the books to check currently) if thats the case than 5=1 square.


If the average speed is 10. Then you could move two squares on your turn? Can you move and attack or just move?
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Akashic Soldier »

ExoKnight wrote:
Akashic Soldier wrote:
Unfortunately Palladium like life--isnt fair. Sometimes you get a bad roll and you are stuck with a 6 IQ.

Converting the speed should be easy enough to do -- I thought each point of speed was 1 foot (but I dont have the books to check currently) if thats the case than 5=1 square.


If the average speed is 10. Then you could move two squares on your turn? Can you move and attack or just move?


Well the average guy gets normal 4 actions/attacks (before everything else) so that means (as I understand it) he could move 4 times, or attack 4 times, or attack 3 times and move once... or any combination thereof in any order he wishes.

Each "action" costs one attack to perform unless otherwise stated (like a power punch etc).

If I'm wrong guys please correct me -- but I am pretty sure that is how it works out.

And yes, if your movement was 10 you could move 2 squares. :)
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Balabanto »

Your SPD is the total amount of feet of distance you can move if you do nothing else during your action. Otherwise, you move some fraction of this. The reason why this matters is that there are actually PENALTIES, yes PENALTIES for shooting at people who move based on what their SPD is. Usually, this is -1 to -2, but don't discount it's importance.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Akashic Soldier »

Balabanto wrote:Your SPD is the total amount of feet of distance you can move if you do nothing else during your action. Otherwise, you move some fraction of this. The reason why this matters is that there are actually PENALTIES, yes PENALTIES for shooting at people who move based on what their SPD is. Usually, this is -1 to -2, but don't discount it's importance.


Hey -2 to hit me?

I'll take it better than getting hit in the face with hot plasma-death.

Does anyone know where this rule specifically is?
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by ryokoryu »

Humans
40 points
Stats 8 across the board
1 point for 2 stat points up to 12
1 point for each stat point to 18
2 points per stat 19-24 (Limit 2 stats to this range)
3 points per point of stats 25-30 (limit to one of your 2 19-24 stats)
5 points for ambidexterity
3 points minor psychic (If not a psychic class)
5 points major psychic (If not a psychic class)
Points may not exceed 30 even after physical skills
This forces Choices. as it gives you the ability to average everything to 10, put attribute to high 20's or pick 2 to push to 20+. If you chose to make a psychic character that is not a psychic class you will lose the ability to absurdity 1 stat. Yes life isn't fair but honestly speaking an IQ of 6 would lead to a quickly screwed character unless the rest of your team is not only playing team mode but looking out extra careful for the big dummy who is about to wander up to pennywise cause he has a baloon.
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

How many points does it cost for thread necromancy?
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

Unread post by ryokoryu »

Curbludgeon wrote:How many points does it cost for thread necromancy?

Threads never die, they just go into torpor
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Re: Point Buy System for Attributes?

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Topic Locked for necromancy.
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