What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

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Fenris2020
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
MadGreenSon wrote:
Kagashi wrote:2) they became awesome in the wrong direction. Their whole deal was dealing with supernatural evil...but in SoT they suddenly were anti-tech. What?!

The only explanation I've ever managed to come up with was some kind of underhanded thing that a power relying on tech alone is innately evil to an even greater extent than hell itself and thus must be opposed by the Cyber Knights more than any supernatural force?

Seems unlikely, but maybe Lord Coake has gone nutty?


After SoT came out, I went back and reread the RMB description of the Cyberknight carefully.
Here is the first bit of introductory flavor text for the class:
Nobody knows exactly where they came from or why, but about 80 years ago the cyber-knights emerged. Some believe the cyber-knights came into being to oppose the ever growing and corrupt Coalition. Others say they came to fight the hordes of supernatural beings that terrorize the land. The truth is that they are the champions of all who are oppressed, weak, and innocent, whether they be threatened by the Coalition or a monster from a rift.

The IDEA that they were there to fight the CS is the second sentence of the description, as is the idea that they were specifically there to fight the supernatural.
Then both ideas are nixed, and we're told the TRUTH, which is that they're not picky about which evil they face; they're not specialists against any particular kind.

So while you guys are technically wrong--their whole deal was NOT dealing with supernatural evil--the SoT and RUE CKs having anti-tech powers still doesn't make any sense, because it's a specialist power for people who are described as not seeking any particular specialty kind of evil to fight against.

Generally, I skip the anti-tech powers because they're poorly described, seemingly random, confusingly vague about where they come from (are they psychic? supernatural? or what?), AND because the powers run directly counter to the introduction to the class.
NOT to mention the powers weren't introduced in any metaplot.
Coake didn't come forward with a speech, telling all the knights there was a big prophesy that they needed to focus on the CS, and/or that he'd learned new special techniques he needed to teach everybody.
No, they were just retconned into always having these powers, so apparently all the CKs we'd played for what... like a decade or something(?)... either didn't have these powers, OR they "had them" but never used them?
It all pretty well stinks.
Bah Humbug.



Ya, I'd have to re-write the whole class if I really wanted CKs to be a more logical class; there ARE a few things I'd keep from the SoT version, as the RMB version was pretty underwhelming.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by The Beast »

Prysus wrote:
HarleeKnight wrote:
Blackwater Sniper wrote:We had people who wanted to play an Apok on Rifts Earth, but couldn't because the main aspect of the OCC, the mask, is a symbiote which would die within hours if taken off of Wormwood.


Can you please tell me where in the book it states this? It caused a big thing when I said this but could not prove where I had read it. I freaking kept looking trying to find it but could not.

Greetings and Salutations. So, I'd gather that this statement is based upon the following sections of the book ...

Wormwood, page 45 wrote:The symbiotes, crystals, stones and other living things created by Wormwood ... [snip] ... the planet that keeps them alive and gives them their powers. When removedd from the planet, they die within 1D6 hours. Symbiotic organisms shrivel up and fall off, stones and crystals turn to dust and parasites curl up, die and then turn to dust.
Wormwood, page 57 (second column, first full paragraph) wrote:... only the apok wears the demon masks of Wormwood, a living symbiotic organism created by the living planet ...

So page 45 tells us that symbiotes symbiotes "created by Wormwood" die within 1D6 hours. Page 57 tells us that the masks are a "living symbiotic organism created by the living planet." So it's more of a 2+2=4 rather than any explicit statement related to the Apok mask directly.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:He Can't. Because of all the WW stuff the Apok Mask is the only WW item that doesn't 'die' when take out of WW. This is because it is not 'alive', and more an enchanted object.
If I'm remembering the where right, this is found in the original RCB1.

Well, I provided a quote stating the Apok masks are "living" and the quote that living symbiotes (which the Apok mask) die within 1D6 hours. As a result, I will say I can provide a quote. Now, this is Palladium, and there may be a different quote that contradicts (or one can argue clarifies) that statement, but that would need an actual quote. You've stated others are incapable of proof, but did not provide any yourself. Do you have an actual citation (and simply telling me or others to search every book is not a citation or proof).

Also, the original Rifts Conversion Book (One) was released in 1991. Wormwood I believe was released in 1993. As such, I'm not going to waste my time looking for a reference in a book to another book that wasn't even released yet (as that seems highly unlikely). Farewell and safe journeys to all.


AFAIK the answer to if Apok's could bring their masks off Wormwood was in the FAQ.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

HarleeKnight, Prysus has the crux of it. As mentioned upthread the strongest support, such as it is, for an Apok Mask being an exception to Wormwood Symbiote disintegration is O.C.C. Question #18 in the FAQ, having been presumably influenced by the DB1 depiction of the item's indestructibility. The Q&A from Rifter 19 and atypical NPC in Chi-town Burbs 2 lend further credence to any Apok characters being hobbled on Rifts Earth, at least in games interested in performative stickling.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Hotrod »

1. Mutants in Orbit doesn't exist. Space is inaccessible, period. If you want to play in space, go to the Three Galaxies or Manhunter setting. Or let's just play Star Wars D6 REUP.
2. Players can raise their characters' pre-O.C.C. attributes in order to meet minimum requirements for their desired O.C.C.
3. One or more players tally experience-deserving actions as the game goes; the GM referees which actions count, but doesn't keep score.
4. Uranium munitions aren't environment-killing munitions (because they aren't in real life; this is a wild exaggeration of a long-since discredited hypothesis about Gulf War syndrome).
5. A good backstory/character concept trumps racial/cultural/class restrictions.
6. Cyber-Knight Zen Combat doesn't exist. Players must pick some alternative to it: an elite martial art, some extra psi-powers, extra cybernetics/bionics, or some other ability/skill, subject to the GM's approval.
7. Psionics, if available by race, are an optional choice for a player rather than a random roll. Minor psionics lose one O.C.C. Related and one Secondary skill. Major psionics lose half their "other" skills and see all their O.C.C. skill bonuses drop by half. Exception to this rule is any O.C.C. that has special rules for psionics (operators, cyber-knights).
8. O.C.C.'s that are like another O.C.C., but better, aren't available to new characters. Instead, a character can change to the elite O.C.C. when the character levels up. For example, a level 1 C.S. Grunt with the right amount of experience can either become a level 2 Grunt or a level 1 Commando (or something else).
9. The first adventure is always a shake-down adventure. At the end of it, players have a chance to change any decisions they made during character creation.
10. I ignore or drastically reduce all trance times for healing psionics.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Emerald MoonSilver »

Hotrod wrote:1. Mutants in Orbit doesn't exist. Space is inaccessible, period. If you want to play in space, go to the Three Galaxies or Manhunter setting. Or let's just play Star Wars D6 REUP.
2. Players can raise their characters' pre-O.C.C. attributes in order to meet minimum requirements for their desired O.C.C.
3. One or more players tally experience-deserving actions as the game goes; the GM referees which actions count, but doesn't keep score.
4. Uranium munitions aren't environment-killing munitions (because they aren't in real life; this is a wild exaggeration of a long-since discredited hypothesis about Gulf War syndrome).
5. A good backstory/character concept trumps racial/cultural/class restrictions.
6. Cyber-Knight Zen Combat doesn't exist. Players must pick some alternative to it: an elite martial art, some extra psi-powers, extra cybernetics/bionics, or some other ability/skill, subject to the GM's approval.
7. Psionics, if available by race, are an optional choice for a player rather than a random roll. Minor psionics lose one O.C.C. Related and one Secondary skill. Major psionics lose half their "other" skills and see all their O.C.C. skill bonuses drop by half. Exception to this rule is any O.C.C. that has special rules for psionics (operators, cyber-knights).
8. O.C.C.'s that are like another O.C.C., but better, aren't available to new characters. Instead, a character can change to the elite O.C.C. when the character levels up. For example, a level 1 C.S. Grunt with the right amount of experience can either become a level 2 Grunt or a level 1 Commando (or something else).
9. The first adventure is always a shake-down adventure. At the end of it, players have a chance to change any decisions they made during character creation.
10. I ignore or drastically reduce all trance times for healing psionics.



I'm stealing your #7 and #10 I like those. :twisted:

ON the same note palladium rules for healing always seemed a little harsh to me especially when a healing ability actually harms a character. What the game needs is a true cleric class with decent healing magic.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

All races can have exceptional rolls.
roll an extra die if roll is greater than n*s-n where n=the number of dice rolled and s=the number of sides the die has. Basically if your roll is more than the max possible result minus the number of dice rolled. (e.g. 3d6 is a bonus roll if greater than (3x6)-3=15) if the stat is something like 1d4+1 or 2d6x10 or any other modifier the modifier is not figured into the calculation and taken care of after the bonus rolls
get a second bonus die if the first one rolled max
BTW bonus die is whatever die was being rolled for the stat
get a third, fourth, fifth, etc... Up to the original number of die rolled. (e.g. 3d6 can have up to 3 bonus die, 1d4 can only get one bonus d4, 10d6... could have up to 10 bonus d6s)
It seems broke but as long as no one is cheating... you should almost never see a second d6 for a human or ever see a third.
I'll also usually add an additional die and remove the lowest... and let people move stats around as long as they used the same rolls so no swapping a 4d10 for a 3d6
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Aaaand this:
Robotech - The Regis after leaving Earth runs across the SDF3 in superluminal form, right when the SDF3 tries to jump away from the black hole. The jump results in a misfold that has them both crash landing in the Arctic. The SDF3 embedded in the ice and the Regis under the ice. The Regis quickly manipulates her invid to have gills so they can survive. The Regis communicates directly with Admiral Hunter and reveals the whole story to him. With a mutual understanding that everyone was double crossed by Haydon and with a mediocre understanding of their current situation the two groups enter an alliance to work together, at least until they can return home.

Splicers - During a major battle the mystic energies released from a new splicer weapon created an unexpected nexus as it detonated in the machine factory, above the subterranean colony. Everything in the blast radius is transported to Rifts. The machine factory is able to repair bots but is unable to manufacture new ones. The nanite plague will die off quickly but not before the splicers come in contact with some equipment from RE and find out the nanites are indeed working. Reinforcing their distrust of normal tech, which they'd be able to use in a few short months. In Splicers there is now a massive lake that is full of PPE (splicers with mystic powers requiring vials of water from the lake?)

Macross - A fold accident near Alus the Lunar Base caused the base and the ship to appear on the dark side of Rift Earth’s moon.

Mechanoids - A failed nexus jump test using data retrieved from ARCHIE 3OZ has caused a mothership to appear above the great red spot on Jupiter. Its remaining forces are hardly enough to defend it and the ship’s power is declining. Will they fall into the storm?

Nightspawn - Nightspawn are appearing on Rifts with increasing frequency. Fortunately their has been no sign of the Dark… yet. Not that evil Nightspawn aren’t bad enough.

Rifts -
England
The Fae have decided that it is England's greatest time of need so King Arthur and a 13 year old "Myrdin d’Monchilder of Caledon son of Wydt Ymrys Ambrosius" also known as Merlin (he ages backwards) have returned to take the throne from Arthuu and Zashaun.
In the depths of a ruined building at 51.4872° North by 0.1245° West there is a dark room lit by a few displays. The hands of a man are lit by the light of a monitor displaying a sideways King Arthur and Merlin. He turns to another console marked Crystalline Storage with hundreds of military style safety switches and begins flipping the covers and then the switches one by one a lit display turns on above them that just says release. On the back of the man’s military fatigues it says SIS the sign above the entrance to the room says Agent Purr Hadron. Agent Purr Hadron isn’t a person but an anagram that a group of people go by. Their mission has been to make sure that King Arthur doesn’t take the throne again. After Arthur’s fall the Romans, the Anglos and the Saxons all made a pact that they would protect the world from the Kings return. So the group waited and watched for the Celtic King. Though the reason for the fear of the King was forgotten the mission had remained when the faith started to wane the remaining group used the same method they had used to entrap Merlin so many centuries ago. One is awake and watches until they are tired and then they trade places with another so they may slumber until called upon. When Arthur and Merlin return to the isles All of the sleepers are awakened and alerted.

North America
Cheyenne Mt. Complex is entombed but contains the bugs from System Failure there is an underground rail system that goes to Groom Lake and emerges in the lowest levels of the facility. Levels that the Black Market haven’t gotten to, likely because the cost of further excavation outweighs the profit they’d make from tech they’d find.

Hagan is a hack and got the idea for the Shemarians and the Monst-Rex from D-Bees he ran into
More than One Way to Hack a Computer (A Saila and Sarkus story)
A few years ago Hagan, before he became A.R.C.H.I.E.’s idea man, was traversing the wilderness; every moment of his life filled with fear, then he happened upon a woman sitting near a campfire with her beast lying near her. From the side of her headdress arose two antenni. The shaggy beast laying beside her turned its snout to the forest in Hagan’s direction, dust kicked up as a paw moved to lift the massive body from the ground. She reached over and pat the beasts nose and said something to it, either too quiet or in a language he didn’t understand… yet. Her beast settled back down, she slid her half naked body up next to it and drew some sort of scaled hide blanket over her. The beast reached over and dragged its saddle, and the blanket connected to it, under its chin. Her antenna flicked the air as her friend sniffed. Then they seemed to go to sleep. Hagan cold, alone and scared, snuck into the camp as he neared them he realized how tall she was and how massive the beast. As he neared the fire. As he closed the distance the beast suddenly moved with a grunt. Hagan jumped out of the clearing back into the woods heart racing. The beast was now on its side, all of its legs out in one direction. The woman had slid off onto the dirt. She slid over to a paw and the beast drew her toward it. She smacked its side and said something in a chastising tone, it simply smirked. They went back to sleep. Hagan needed warmth, he knew he was on the verge of hypothermia and would die unless he got some… guess he should have learned how to make a fire. He scooted close to the fire and as he watched for any sign of movement he fell asleep.

In the morning he awoke to a lot of hot air moving over him and the sound of a very large beast sniffing very close to him. The feminine voice from last night was close and loud enough for him to hear yet he could not understand. He laid there motionless, hardly even breathing. The sniffing stopped and a very close and inhumanly deep and guttural voice responded to the female… IT spoke!? She grunted, and then it did as its feet shuffled away from him. He cracked his eyes to try to see what was going on and as he looked up out of the corner of his eye he got a view he’d never forget, and one few men see. As he looked up she stepped over him, and his eyes grew wide. Hagan knows what her species wears under their loincloths or skirts. If asked he remains silent but gets that whimsical look, when you recall a fond memory, with a big cheesy grin. The moment was a flash, though the whole thing plays in slow motion in his head, as she stepped over and walked toward their gear. His moment of erotic fantasy was also short lived as he felt thuds coming closer from behind him. Then a claw passed through his hair before hitting the ground, then big eyes, then darkness, and as he got snorted on a little monster boogey hit him in the face. Then the worst image he’d ever see, the beast was bearing its fangs in a snarl inches from his face. He squeezed his eyes shut as the rest of the beast passed over him. He cracked his eyes again just in time to see the beast’s tail come down and slap him. His face was stinging but he knew that a beast of that size could have caused much more damage. He watched it walk over to the woman and as she was putting, what he thought was a blanket, on as a cape connecting it to the chest plate and pauldron she had been wearing all night. It snickered as it spoke to her and as she spun around to look at Hagan he got another glance as her fast movement caused her apparently heavy loincloth to skew to one side… the carpet matched the drapes. Her cape billowed out but then began to stick to her from top to bottom increasing mass and rigidity over vital or non-flexible parts and separating into cable like mail over a body suit at the joints and other flexible parts. Hagan could see her cheeks were flush, he hoped in embarrassment as her face did not seem to display any anger, but then she started stepping toward him. His eyes popped open and he tried getting to his feet, only successful in pushing himself across the ground. She quickly reached him and put her hand out. Hagan flinched and closed his eyes expecting his life to end. Nothing happened; he heard the beast laugh and he opened his eyes. She was still standing there her hand outstretched, her face still flush, but her beautiful blue eyes were smiling and she wore a sheepish grin on her perfect face. He put his hand in hers and she helped him up. Then she looked at him put her hand together in front of her face, which now seemed to have a pleading look upon it, then she said something in her language. She realized he couldn’t understand so she stood there for a minute thinking; all the while Hagan studied her face and her green hair. After a couple seconds she did the pleading hands again followed by the talking hand, the quieting finger on the talking hand, pointing at him, then both of her eyes then down. Hagan figured out that she didn’t want him to talk about his religious experience, when he said it the right way she nodded… apparently her translator worked. The woman went on with her business, she threw the saddle and blanket onto her beast picked up two staff looking weapons that had triggers and collapsed on their own when she went to place them on her back. Two other staff weapons she picked up collapsed into something like a knife that she stuck into concealed sheaths on her thighs and finally she picked up two different rifles that she put onto the saddle, into two sheaths that weren’t there just a minute ago. She looked at Hagan and said something and then motioned to him. Hagan asked if she wanted him to come with her and she nodded her head. She flung herself up onto the saddle and offered her hand. Hagan took it and almost pulled his arm out of joint as she jerked him off his feet.

A few days had passed as Hagan traveled with the woman his translator finally picked up her language. He learned that her name was Saila and the beast was her friend and pack mate Sarkus who spoke the same language. She never again assumed the minimal armor mode, probably too embarrassed, he did however notice that she was getting uncomfortable in the full armor after about the second day. He learned about their culture and was starting to grow bored of her near continual talking when he was rolling his eyes and just happened to notice a guy in a tree dressed in CS armor. He yelled and with a single move she knocked him to the ground on the opposite side of Sarkus from the scout and leapt toward the Deadboy. Sarkus spun to face that direction and in that instant went from some near cuddly, mutant, wolf-grizzly cross to a titanic, armored dreadnaught armed and armored to the teeth, well… except for the teeth. Sarkus fired some shots that seemed to be aimed at Saila which she deftly avoided as if it was planned; the shots hit the tree, shattering the trunk. As the tree fell with the soldier in it Saila, still flying through the air, pulled one of the knives which immediately extended to the length of a halberd, and spun it. She landed on the same branch as the trooper, the first strike hit him square in the helmet and cut into it, he was surely a goner but as she spun around for a second strike the helmet fell from his head in two parts and she struck him with the blunt end with a crack he was most certainly dead before he hit the ground she landed over him a foot on each side of his torso. The tree was still falling and her last slash with the halberd sliced it in two pieces which fell on either side of them. Sarkus now looking as he did before the battle came over, in a happy trot, took a deep breath, and exhaled on the unconscious human. The human shook his head like he smelled something foul and immediately came to consciousness. Saila asked him if there were any others and the man unable to understand and realizing she was that much more alien scowled at her and told her that if she did not release him the others would surely descend on her and slaughter her and her entire family… apparently the wrong thing to say to her as the knife she held extended into a spear burying its blade in his throat, likely severing his spine. As she turned her armor seemed to stiffen and the cable mail flattened out into plate her head crest rose and separated as another antenna came out, the three were busy flicking the air to find the "others." After a couple minutes passed her armor reverted to the previous mode as they began to remount Sarkus her antenna shot straight up into the air moments before a far off crash could be heard. Sarkus spun around, knocking Hagan off the trail and into the forest. As Hagan watched all the plates of Saila’s head dress stood on end and two extra antennas slid out, the cable mail went flat again and the dense armored portions seemed to grow. A pack of some sort extruded from the suits back and blades seemed to sprout from everywhere. As he looked on her image seemed to blur as if he was looking at her across hot desert sand… the suit was producing massive amounts of heat. Out of the forest crashed the large skull headed mass of a UAR-1 Robot which immediately launched missiles. Sarkus, armored up again, fired a spray of laser beams into the volley detonating several causing a chain reaction that destroyed the rest. The giant robot started firing its cannon and Saila nimbly dodged the first shot almost purposefully into the next shot which hit her and sent her spinning into the air. Fragments of her armor flew off in all directions and her bare shoulder could be seen. Sarkus leapt behind her and jumped into the air side swiping her mid air, Saila’s feet hit Sarkus’ side stopping her spin and giving her a springboard. Her armor looked like it was regenerating, her shoulder now hidden under the material. She leapt off Sarkus’ side and landed on the UAR-1’s shoulder. The UAR-1 immediately started swatting itself in an attempt to dismount her. Her armor, fully regrown, new blades popped out. She dodged the clumsy strikes and stabbed a morph blade spear into each eye, which she then used to perform amazing acrobatic feats. The secondary sensor tower allowed the pilot to continue attacks, though they were even more clumsy and hardly had to be dodged. As she flipped and danced around the UAR’s head she ripped blades from her armor and buried them deep into the hoses in the neck, then she pulled both of the staff cannons off her back and fired one against the side of the head which caused it to rip free of the body, the other she shot down the neck of the robot directly into the cockpit. The UAR stumbled with smoke billowing out of its neck she flipped off, landing a few feet in front of it, facing it on a knee and a fist; both the staffs had been replaced on her back sometime during the flip. As she rose, a volley of missiles fired straight up from her pack. The UAR-1 collapsed to its knees almost on top of her but then fell backwards and at that moment the volley she released a moment earlier landed on target, pummeling the chest. She turned toward the forest, and Hagan saw her face… at least her eyes as her mouth was covered in a predatory looking mask, but her eyes were full of rage. Hagan ran into the woods and never saw either of them again.

The USS Eldridge appears for a short time off of Philadelphia.

Atlantis -
Altarians aren’t blind nor reproduce through parthenogenesis… or at least they didn’t. The Splugorth had the Altarians genetically modified to make them dependent. There are Altarians who have escaped and found love, blah, blah, blah… the offspring from intercourse have vision and are called free or true Altarians.

Russia -
The young orphan woman (in her late teens) that was "raised" by an “orthodox priest” and the “women of his parish" was a D-Bee, not by species but by time and dimensional travel, when the priest found her she was clothed in a nightgown, covered in blood, she had no memory of where she came from or who she was... except the name Romanova. The women of the parish named her Sonya. Everything else Sonya Romanova remembers is the truth. What no one knows is that she is the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova who was saved by Grigori Rasputin, not a big deal but just a little timeline/dimensional fun for me.

Mexico-
The Mexico Empire/Tula Is even more human friendly than described in the book the intelligence favors humans, rather it understands that humans provide food and rather than treating them as cattle they reward them for voluntarily donating blood. The VI keeps them safe from other vampires, it punishes vampires that take advantage of humans, they give humans freedoms and even a say in running the government. So not only does the VI receive the worship energy from his vampire minions but many of the humans also worship him. The VI and as trickle down the vampires embrace the technology of the humans and use their superior intellect to advance the technology. In the apocalypse Mexico City ruins were washed completely away, Lake Texcoco shrunk around the island. The VI has his temple on the Island that is surrounded by an ancient looking city named Tenochtitlan, beyond the water which forms a "small" ring lake is a more modern city that is shaped as a circle with streets spoked outward that are centered on the temple on the island. The city is surrounded by a giant wall and over the city is a temporal shield that protects the city my aging anything that tries to penetrate it by a few hours. The object is locked in space so normally ends up falling somewhere in the Pacific
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Hotrod »

Also, insanity is never random and is something worked out with the player. I pretty much ignore those tables, and the Crazy O.C.C. does not exist. Too many bad experiences with Crazies.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Something I'd like to change is how vampires were done in Palladium. It's kind of... odd.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Fenris2020 wrote:Something I'd like to change is how vampires were done in Palladium. It's kind of... odd.

I personally think it more closely based on historical vampire lore than the modern romanticized vampires that are more common in novels and RPGs.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

Blue_Lion wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:Something I'd like to change is how vampires were done in Palladium. It's kind of... odd.

I personally think it more closely based on historical vampire lore than the modern romanticized vampires that are more common in novels and RPGs.



Having read a LOT of the "vampire lore" from over the centuries, I disagree on a lot of points (particularly the fire immunity and tentacled overlord overlord bits, but also the deadliness of squirt guns... most legends also leave out the running water bit, limit it to specific bodies of running water, or limit the power of running water).
Then there's the power of the cross; a pre-Christian vampire would laugh. As well, I see no reason why other holy symbols wouldn't be as powerful (Pantheons mentions that a Thor's Hammer works, but so should a Triskele which represents birth, death, and re-birth... vampires are outside of that cycle).
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by EliBenedict »

Going for low hanging fruit, but unless something has changed, Palladium has still never published rules for how characters move in combat, so I'm guessing everyone's still house ruling that.

We went with:
There are two movement phases each round, you get to move half your movment on each one. The first one happens at the start of you turn, the second one happens just before the halfway point (rounding up) in you attacks for that round.

That is, if you have 5 attacks, you move once before your first attack, and once before your fourth attack
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:Something I'd like to change is how vampires were done in Palladium. It's kind of... odd.

I personally think it more closely based on historical vampire lore than the modern romanticized vampires that are more common in novels and RPGs.



Having read a LOT of the "vampire lore" from over the centuries, I disagree on a lot of points (particularly the fire immunity and tentacled overlord overlord bits, but also the deadliness of squirt guns... most legends also leave out the running water bit, limit it to specific bodies of running water, or limit the power of running water).


"Most" legends leave out "most" things about vampires.
Running water is as legit as most other common modern vampire tropes.

And while people look down on squirt guns, they'll always be anti-vampire weapons as long as vamps are hurt by holy water.

Then there's the power of the cross; a pre-Christian vampire would laugh.


That's like saying that a caveman should be able to laugh off bullets, at least in settings where gods and divine power is real.

As well, I see no reason why other holy symbols wouldn't be as powerful (Pantheons mentions that a Thor's Hammer works, but so should a Triskele which represents birth, death, and re-birth... vampires are outside of that cycle).


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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by EliBenedict »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:Then there's the power of the cross; a pre-Christian vampire would laugh. As well, I see no reason why other holy symbols wouldn't be as powerful (Pantheons mentions that a Thor's Hammer works, but so should a Triskele which represents birth, death, and re-birth... vampires are outside of that cycle).


Palladium (and Rifts) deals with a lot of mythology by explaining it as a misunderstanding of a more obscure supernatural phenomenon. Think of the way Rifts humans believe "ghosts" are the spirits of dead loved ones when, INactuallity, they're alien entities that imprint on the consciousness of dying folk. Or how most Rifts natives think of Vampires as cursed or a supernatural plague, when in actuality, they're extensions of an Alien Intelligence.

Given that framing (and the fact that Christian believers aren't attributed supernatural powers anywhere else in Rifts) I would infer that Rifts Vampires are vulnerable to the cross for some obscure supernatural reason not related to the Christian faith, and then (again, in the context of Rifts) Christians retroactively identified on the cross as a holy symbol based in its efficacy against vampires.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Hotrod wrote:Also, insanity is never random and is something worked out with the player. I pretty much ignore those tables, and the Crazy O.C.C. does not exist. Too many bad experiences with Crazies.


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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Fenris2020 wrote:Something I'd like to change is how vampires were done in Palladium. It's kind of... odd.

What part?
You could always revert to the Gerseidi Vampires
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Fenris2020 wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:Something I'd like to change is how vampires were done in Palladium. It's kind of... odd.

I personally think it more closely based on historical vampire lore than the modern romanticized vampires that are more common in novels and RPGs.



Having read a LOT of the "vampire lore" from over the centuries, I disagree on a lot of points (particularly the
fire immunity Agreed
tentacled overlord overlord IIRC this only came about with Rifts and all the other AIs
deadliness of squirt guns Agreed, unless it is holy water
running water bit Agreed, unless it is blessed
limit it to specific bodies of running water Agreed, specific bodies should be blessed
the power of the cross; a pre-Christian vampire would laugh Disagree, A cross should effect an Etruscan Vampire because it is the faith of the believer
no reason why other holy symbols wouldn't be as powerful Agreed as it should be based on the faith of the believer

More interesting would be if holy symbols are a competition. If the VI has more vampires listed than the faith has believers then the vampire is unaffected. If the faith has more followers than the VI then their holy symbol does what their holy symbol does (some may just keep them at bay, others may cause damage, some may cause them to run in panic and then some may allow the holder of the symbol to control the vampires)
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

EliBenedict wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:Then there's the power of the cross; a pre-Christian vampire would laugh. As well, I see no reason why other holy symbols wouldn't be as powerful (Pantheons mentions that a Thor's Hammer works, but so should a Triskele which represents birth, death, and re-birth... vampires are outside of that cycle).


Palladium (and Rifts) deals with a lot of mythology by explaining it as a misunderstanding of a more obscure supernatural phenomenon. Think of the way Rifts humans believe "ghosts" are the spirits of dead loved ones when, INactuallity, they're alien entities that imprint on the consciousness of dying folk. Or how most Rifts natives think of Vampires as cursed or a supernatural plague, when in actuality, they're extensions of an Alien Intelligence.

Given that framing (and the fact that Christian believers aren't attributed supernatural powers anywhere else in Rifts) I would infer that Rifts Vampires are vulnerable to the cross for some obscure supernatural reason not related to the Christian faith, and then (again, in the context of Rifts) Christians retroactively identified on the cross as a holy symbol based in its efficacy against vampires.


:roll: Peter: And because it is effective against vampires we will claim our Messiah was crucified on one, quick claim it before one of the other faiths do.
Matthew: (Runs outside) Hey everyone dibs on the cross
Judas: This is stupid
Peter: Fine your getting torn apart by demons in the story for betraying our Messiah
Judas: Fine... cuz this is stupid
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by EliBenedict »

Zer0 Kay wrote: :roll: Peter: And because it is effective against vampires we will claim our Messiah was crucified on one, quick claim it before one of the other faiths do.
Matthew: (Runs outside) Hey everyone dibs on the cross
Judas: This is stupid
Peter: Fine your getting torn apart by demons in the story for betraying our Messiah
Judas: Fine... cuz this is stupid


Ha! I love it!

But seriously, historically Christians adopted the cross as their symbol quite late. It displaced the ichthys and the chiro which had much more currency. So the vampire thing could be taken as an explanation for thst change, and the peculiar decision to choose your god's method of execution as the symbol of his faith.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

The reasoning behind Rome choosing a cross as a simple symbol that everyone can carry with them as a reminder of the cost that was paid so we can receive God's grace.

However, for it to work as a pendent, the roman cross, an 'X frame', changes to a 'T frame' because the attachment point is more easily attached to just one arm of the cross rather than two.

Then there is that in the USA most of the mythology about vampires that was imported from the old world was of Catholic origin. Which explains why a citizen of the USA went with the only mythos about vampires commonly know to the public in the USA For a gamebook about a post-A North America.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

I like the "Christians latched onto the cross because it worked against vampires", though it could be expanded to "Romans crucified people on crosses to keep them from being turned into vampires"... because who's going to be willing to accept a vampire's offer more than the person slowly dying of blood loss, exposure, and the predation of birds?

It also explains why anti-vampire alien intelligences would use the cross as a symbol.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

That the PP bonuses to S/P/D mean that the bonus is applied to all hand to hand combat moves.
Since PP already has a bonus for init., the bonus schedule for Init. remains unchanged.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

Those are a couple of fun ideas there, Mark. Roman adoption of the cross as a preventative measure helps prop up, among other things, a class-based division of lemures and mares in lieu of being different varieties of undead. I think White Wolf did some kind of vampires of Rome book, so maybe the idea is old hat.

In a broader sense I'd be interested in a vampire creation table which draws directly from some of the more exhaustive references, such that a penanggalan and lamia could be modeled using a minimum of page space, and switching out squirt guns for counting spilled grains on a case-by-case basis wouldn't be a big deal. I'm flipping through Joshi, Bane, and Bunson, trying to decide from which encyclopedia's formatting one can most easily steal. It's a shame Manfred Lurker didn't do a book specifically on vampires, because if ever a folklorist could have walked around holding up a cape it was him.

I posted here about a game once ran with vampires as a variant human species only recently brought back from Neolithic extinction, which was fun in a hell is other people, who are the real monsters sort of way.

Also, I'm staking claim now on a Witch of Endor with a greater pact joke.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Curbludgeon wrote:I posted here about a game once ran with vampires as a variant human species only recently brought back from Neolithic extinction, which was fun in a hell is other people, who are the real monsters sort of way.


And I had the vampires of "Phage World", from the Rifter... psi-stalkers who got turned into a different kind of vampire.

Vampires are a general monster type that has a lot of legs. I don't have a particular problem with the Palladium Vampires being the main type on Rifts, but there's a lot of cool things you can do with other ones.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by !REAPER! »

I have been re-reading the R.M.B. & the R.U.E. and compiling my house rules / revisions. I have decided to not use the 2 attacks for living after reading Killer Cyborgs & others thoughts on the matter. An interesting aside is that on page 37 of the R.M.B. it said "A reminder: All player characters automatically start off with two attacks/actions per 15 second melee. Additional attacks per melee are gained from the hand to hand skills and boxing." That threw us off for years. So my players typically had 4+ attacks out of power armor / robot vehicles.
I use the original R.M.B. radar ranges for power armor / robots. So basically power armor get the lesser range while robots the greater. I am contemplating having radio systems being less in power armor as well. I am not sure just yet.
I will be back with more later.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Killer Cyborg wrote:I've found that "No Alignment" tends to result in every character's alignment being "whatever random mood the player happens to be in on this particular day."
Which is fine for one-off adventures, but leads to some pretty inconsistent behavior in campaigns.

How do you No Alignment guys deal with this?
Or does that only happen at my table?


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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Fenris2020 »

!REAPER! wrote:I have been re-reading the R.M.B. & the R.U.E. and compiling my house rules / revisions. I have decided to not use the 2 attacks for living after reading Killer Cyborgs & others thoughts on the matter. An interesting aside is that on page 37 of the R.M.B. it said "A reminder: All player characters automatically start off with two attacks/actions per 15 second melee. Additional attacks per melee are gained from the hand to hand skills and boxing." That threw us off for years. So my players typically had 4+ attacks out of power armor / robot vehicles.
I use the original R.M.B. radar ranges for power armor / robots. So basically power armor get the lesser range while robots the greater. I am contemplating having radio systems being less in power armor as well. I am not sure just yet.
I will be back with more later.



Two attacks for living doesn't bother me; I can punch, kick and stab more than 4 times in a minute.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Fenris2020 wrote:
!REAPER! wrote:I have been re-reading the R.M.B. & the R.U.E. and compiling my house rules / revisions. I have decided to not use the 2 attacks for living after reading Killer Cyborgs & others thoughts on the matter. An interesting aside is that on page 37 of the R.M.B. it said "A reminder: All player characters automatically start off with two attacks/actions per 15 second melee. Additional attacks per melee are gained from the hand to hand skills and boxing." That threw us off for years. So my players typically had 4+ attacks out of power armor / robot vehicles.
I use the original R.M.B. radar ranges for power armor / robots. So basically power armor get the lesser range while robots the greater. I am contemplating having radio systems being less in power armor as well. I am not sure just yet.
I will be back with more later.



Two attacks for living doesn't bother me; I can punch, kick and stab more than 4 times in a minute.


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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Palladium Radar is stupid. House rules radar works the same as real radar. You get Range, Speed, Azimuth and Altitude (MOST real radar doesn't give Altitude, I figure advanced future radar would have it). From these trajectory may also be determined. A radar display, displays blips not shapes so it can't identify vehicles. Identification is handled by a radio system where the ground system requests information from the aircraft and the system on board the aircraft returns its info. So if it is turned off the radar doesn't get any info. Military systems do the same thing except they can be switched to a mode where the ground interrogator has to send a code which the aircraft authorizes and then sends the info back. In this way they are able to identify friend from foe as long as their codes aren't discovered. In the case of modern military aircraft they usually only have the transponder not the interrogator so they can't request info from other aircraft but with an AWACS or other friendly radar in the area they are often updated through them. The future radar systems would likely have both interrogators and transponders

All this to say, if you can't see it you don't get to know what it is only where it is, which way it is going and how fast. Unless it is civilian then it will blab what it is, but that can be falsified. If it is military it can lie and say it is civilian. If it is on your side and your codes are up to date you can identify it as friend. If you somehow got ahold of the enemies codes THEN you can identify the enemy and what it is... unless of course the enemy was intentionally misidentifying what it was. So identifying WHAT it is, is entirely dependent on the target and the targets transponder "telling" the truth.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by The Beast »

I'd like to be able to play a mage using the PPE channeling rules, but I have yet to meet a GM willing to use them, even if they say they like those rules. :frust:
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Shorty Lickens »

For the longest time I thought because there were 15 character levels and 15 spell levels your P.C. had to be at that level to use a spell. I was wrong. But it made sense so I kept using it as a rule for many of my campaigns.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Mlp7029 »

I separated the Knights into two classes, the Psi-Knights and the Cyber-Knights. Latter are basically non psionic Knights from the RUE Knights. Psi-Knights are all psychics but get none of the anti-tech powers as Psi-Knights get Zanshin which gives them auto dodge and bonuses equivalent to Sixth Sense all the time. I do not have Cyber-Armor affect psionics because it is not internal to the body so Psi-Knights can have cyber armor but it never becomes living armor. Only Cyber-Knights get the living armor.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Mlp7029 »

!REAPER! wrote:.... I use the original R.M.B. radar ranges for power armor / robots. So basically power armor get the lesser range while robots the greater. I am contemplating having radio systems being less in power armor as well. I am not sure just yet.
I will be back with more later.

Thanks I had not picked up on this but it makes total sense so I will use the difference in ranges as well. :-o
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by One Hand Clapping »

For my games, I provide my players with a sheet listing all of my house rules. This is so everyone knows what to expect. My house rules are a combination of homebrewed material and optional rules borrowed from official books or the Rifter. This is most of my rules, though I'm definitely forgetting a few.


Character Creation

1. Roll for attributes four times and select the set that you like best.
2. Players may adjust character attributes to meet minimum requirements for an O.C.C. but only after all other attribute modifiers have been calculated.
3. The extra die for an exceptional attribute roll does not explode.
4. The player may re-roll any one stat of choice (attribute, damage capacity, P.P.E., etc.) but is not required to keep the second roll.
5. I created an optional list of Advantages and Disadvantages for Rifts characters. If players want Advantages, they must first select one or more Disadvantages. They may then use the points acquired from the Disadvantages to purchase Advantages. Players may choose to completely forgo this option, or they can cash in any unused points for starting XP.
6. Dog Boys and Psi-Stalkers are R.C.C.s, not O.C.C.s.
7. Non-humans can roll exceptionally on attributes.
8. Mega-damage creatures get the S.D.C. bonus provided by physical skills. This bonus is converted directly into M.D.C. (+1d6 S.D.C. becomes +1d6 M.D.C., for instance).
9. I do NOT use the "Bonus to Compensate for a Low Attribute" rule, as described on p. 282 of RUE.


General Combat

1. Initiative is only rolled for the first melee round (not each round). That initiative order is then used for all subsequent rounds of combat.
2. A dodge or other defensive action is uses up one of the character’s total actions rather than his next action.
3. No G.I. Joe rule.
4. The character decides which of his hands is dominant (left or right). Attacks made with one’s non-dominant off-hand incur a -2 penalty. Characters with a Physical Prowess of 20 or higher are effectively ambidextrous and suffer no off-hand penalty.
5. Knockdown follows new rules.
6. I've instituted Size Levels. This introduces Size-based modifiers into combat. Doesn't come much into play unless there is a major Size discrepancy between opponents.
7. Characters have a "Movement Rate," which determines movement in combat. A character's Movement Rate is equal to her Speed attribute; this is how many yards that the character can move per Melee Action at a full sprint. Movement Rate remains the same regardless of how many Actions Per Round the character might have. Gaining new Melee Actions has no effect on Movement Rate. Only a change to the Speed Attribute will alter Movement Rate. Walking speed is the same for most human-sized bipedal characters (3-4 mph), no matter the individual Speed attribute.


Melee Combat

1. A Power Punch uses up two of the character’s total actions, rather than taking two actions to perform.
2. Add the character’s damage bonus (if any) before doubling the damage for a Power Punch.
3. Paired weapons can be parried with a single weapon. The defender rolls one parry and applies it to both attacks, but the parry incurs a -5 penalty. The parry still counts as a free action. May only be used against melee attacks, not paired ranged attacks, and the defender’s weapon must be of a suitable length/size.
4. I've instituted rules for Reach, but this rarely comes up unless there is a major discrepancy in Reach between opponents (e.g., a knife fighter vs. a pole arm wielder).


Ranged Combat

1. No -10/-5 dodge rule for dodging gunfire and energy blasts.
2. Half of the character’s P.P. bonus (round down) applies to modern weapons.
3. A Called Shot does NOT cost an additional action.
4. Bursts with recoilless ranged energy weapons (laser, ion, and particle beam) benefit from the shooter’s full W.P. bonus, instead of only half the bonus.
5. “Aimed Bursts,” “Called Bursts,” and “Aimed Called Bursts” are all possible with recoilless energy weapons.
6. Parrying ranged attacks with a shield does NOT require an unmodified roll.
7. P.S. damage bonus applies to thrown weapon damage.


Skills

1. The W.P. Quick Draw skill, in addition to its usual benefits, allows the character to draw or stow a single weapon as a free action.
2. The W.P. Paired Weapons skill only applies to a specific pairing of weapons (knife/knife, handgun/handgun, sword/shield, etc.). The skill may be selected multiple times, with each selection representing a new pairing.
3. Those with the W.P. Staff skill and W.P. Paired Weapons (Staff/Staff) skill may employ a single staff as a paired weapon. Each end of the staff is treated as a separate “weapon”. Doing so requires two hands; using the staff one-handed will revert the staff to a “single weapon” and any paired weapon advantages are lost. With the appropriate W.P.s, spears and pole arms can also be used in a similar manner but at a -2 penalty to all paired weapon maneuvers.


Magic

1. The rules for casting without speaking aloud, introduced on p. 63 of Rifts Underseas, are not permitted. Aside from a few rare exceptions, speech is always required for spell casting. No way around it.
2. Instead of a Spell Strength of 16, performing a spell as a ritual adds +4 to caster’s Spell Strength.
3. When a spell caster is being potentially interrupted in mid casting, make a Save vs. Distraction (17 or higher to succeed; may add M.E. bonus to the saving throw). On a success, the spell caster maintains concentration and the casting is unaffected. On a failure, the spell is interrupted and the caster must start the casting from the beginning.
4. Gestures are not, strictly speaking, required for spell casting. They nonetheless aid in focus. Spells cast without a somatic component are -3 to Save vs. Distraction if the spell gets potentially interrupted.
5. Parrying is not possible while spell casting with gestures. Any attempt to parry in mid casting will negate the somatic component of the spell.
6. The “Rapid-Fire Spell Casting” rules on p. 54 of Mysteries of Magic work as written, except that casting times are reduced by one action (not by half). Casting time can be reduced to a minimum of one action. Any damage taken from the Rapid-Fire Spell Casting Result Table automatically bypasses armor and goes directly to hit points or M.D.C.
7. The effects of being near ley lines and nexus points (on magic-users and psychics), as described on p. 163 of the Rifts Main Book, are used in place of the revised rules in RUE.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Casting Time:
Spells take 1 second per level to cast
Rituals take 1 hour per level to cast
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Zer0 Kay wrote:Casting Time:
Spells take 1 second per level to cast


How does this part translate into Attacks per Melee?
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Crimson Dynamo »

The only way I can see it working is if you required a bit of unnecessary math from the players.

Something like: To determine how long it takes to cast a spell in combat, divide the number of actions you have available per melee by 15, rounded up. Thus if you have six actions available to cast spells with, you'd have 3 (15/6=2.5, rounded up to 3). That's how many "seconds" each of your actions take up for the purpose of determining how long it takes to cast any given spell. So in this example if you were casting an 11th-level spell, it would take you 4 of your 6 available actions that melee, leaving you with two more actions that round.

Seems a bit unnecessary though. I think just applying a number of actions based on the spell level would be more feasible. For example, every three levels of the spell (rounded down) requires one action to cast. So 1st and 2nd level spells require one action, 3rd-5th require two, 6th-8th require three, 9th-11th require four, 12th-14th require five, and 15th+ requires six. Same effect, easier implementation.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Devjannz »

I don't have too many House Rules but here are the one's I have put in place and that seem to work well:

1.) Characters with Natural MDC: Instead of just one MDC Score I have it separated like Hit Points and SDC. Like normal HP, characters gain a D6 per level to MD Hit Points. MDC however only goes up at 1/2 the listed value. SO if they gain 1d6x10 per level, it would be half what is rolled.

The reasoning behind this is to make it more in line with how HP/SDC works and so you can use many of the same mechanics for it. A Critical strike roll would bypass the MDC and go straight to the MD Hit Points.

2.) The Speed Attribute: I have never thought that the random roll for speed made sense because how fast someone can go is a combination of several physical factors. For the game I have players take their PS, PP and PE rolls and average them for Spd (maybe not the best way but it seems to work pretty good so far). This gives a base attribute to use and then things like Running and other skills/abilities that can affect Spd are applied as usual.

3.) MD Laser/Ion Pistols/Rifles vs SDC targets: Instead of doing the MD Damage listed, they do the Die Roll x2 in SDC (and HP at the same time if a living target). The reason for this is because both of those items are usually described as punching a hole through a target not vaporizing them (unless it is a beam of substantial power and size). It also gives SDC beings a chance (however slight) if actually surviving a hit by those types of weapons. Vehicle weapons (not mounted rifles) and Particle Beam weapons still do the normal damage as they have more power or are designed to disrupt physical items at an atomic level.


That is all I have really. I hope that they make sense and feel free to use them if you like.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

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I've decided to multiply the XP everyone gets by 3; it takes too long to level up.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Fenris2020 wrote:I've decided to multiply the XP everyone gets by 3; it takes too long to level up.


This isn't meant to be aggressive, i'm simply curious: how long do you feel it should take to level up, and why?
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Curbludgeon »

I would argue many if not most people go with milestone-based leveling. In addition to it be strictly easier to implement, it doesn't involve using thousands of microjudgements applied to obviously arbitrarily derived experience tables.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Curbludgeon wrote:I would argue many if not most people go with milestone-based leveling. In addition to it be strictly easier to implement, it doesn't involve using thousands of microjudgements applied to obviously arbitrarily derived experience tables.


I would be curious if there's any kind of hard numbers on that. But the question of how fast is the proper pace of level advancement, remains regardless of which method of level advancement you use.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:I've decided to multiply the XP everyone gets by 3; it takes too long to level up.


This isn't meant to be aggressive, i'm simply curious: how long do you feel it should take to level up, and why?


For me, you should usually be 2nd level by your 2nd session, and then a new level every 2-4 sessions.

This is substantially faster than the base assumption, but I see it as somewhat necessary, given how many classes are level-based. A Juicer at 1st level has pretty much what he will get; he'll pick up a few more bonuses from WP and HTH, a few more attacks, but most of his ability happens at 1st level. A Ley Line Walker at 1st level can cast any spell she can learn... she may be low in PPE, but she doesn't have any limits. Classes like these are relatively level-independent; they like getting levels, and those levels help them, but they aren't as tied to them.

But then you have psychics, mystics, and other level-dependent classes. A lot of their power and versatility comes from what level they are... powers are level-gated, and they can't learn powers independently of level (save by GM fiat or unusual circumstances). Because of those classes, leveling regularly is a must... especially if you have a mixed group of level-dependent and level-independent classes.... your LLW might be learning scores of new spells, while your Mystic is pinging out Blinding Flash, because that's what they have.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Mark Hall wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Fenris2020 wrote:I've decided to multiply the XP everyone gets by 3; it takes too long to level up.


This isn't meant to be aggressive, i'm simply curious: how long do you feel it should take to level up, and why?


For me, you should usually be 2nd level by your 2nd session, and then a new level every 2-4 sessions.

This is substantially faster than the base assumption, but I see it as somewhat necessary, given how many classes are level-based. A Juicer at 1st level has pretty much what he will get; he'll pick up a few more bonuses from WP and HTH, a few more attacks, but most of his ability happens at 1st level. A Ley Line Walker at 1st level can cast any spell she can learn... she may be low in PPE, but she doesn't have any limits. Classes like these are relatively level-independent; they like getting levels, and those levels help them, but they aren't as tied to them.

But then you have psychics, mystics, and other level-dependent classes. A lot of their power and versatility comes from what level they are... powers are level-gated, and they can't learn powers independently of level (save by GM fiat or unusual circumstances). Because of those classes, leveling regularly is a must... especially if you have a mixed group of level-dependent and level-independent classes.... your LLW might be learning scores of new spells, while your Mystic is pinging out Blinding Flash, because that's what they have.


level 2 by session 2 and every 2-4 sessions after? assuming 3 average, that'd be 41 sessions to reach level 15, not even a year of gaming. That's blazingly fast. What are you going to do by year 3 of the campaign when everyone's level 50? :?

That is so fast I'm not even sure how to register it. I consider a game to be going fast if i'm level 6 by the end of the first year. :lol:

I have to ask: does that pace assume a pre-set end to that particular campaign? Because at that pace you'll hit the level cap well before the story has even gotten to the mid point of the game, by what i'm used to.

Though thanks for answering: this is why I ask, it's so different I'm facinated by the rational behind it.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Library Ogre »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:level 2 by session 2 and every 2-4 sessions after? assuming 3 average, that'd be 41 sessions to reach level 15, not even a year of gaming. That's blazingly fast. What are you going to do by year 3 of the campaign when everyone's level 50? :?

That is so fast I'm not even sure how to register it. I consider a game to be going fast if i'm level 6 by the end of the first year. :lol:

I have to ask: does that pace assume a pre-set end to that particular campaign? Because at that pace you'll hit the level cap well before the story has even gotten to the mid point of the game, by what i'm used to.

Though thanks for answering: this is why I ask, it's so different I'm facinated by the rational behind it.


41 sessions is less than a year of gaming? That's completely alien to me, at least since I got out of college.

I've never been in a multi-year campaign; longest ones have been a school year, and it's gotten even scarcer since getting grown-up responsibilities.... last session I played in was in August, and juggling job schedules, child care, and everything else means that the idea of a weekly, or even monthly, game is practically impossible.

But again, I also trace some of this back to Palladium's class design; languishing at low levels with a level-dependent class sounds like torture. "My OCC can be cool, but it won't be until about year 3, when I finally hit 8th level." Sure, there's a lot to be had in the play, but if everyone else gets their cool at 1, and you get it three years later, it makes the game feel a lot longer. Part of why I prefer Savage Rifts, really.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Mark Hall wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Casting Time:
Spells take 1 second per level to cast


How does this part translate into Attacks per Melee?


Sorry for the wait on the response.

I divide rounds into 15, 1 second segments and then divide the number of attacks evenly based on a pre distributed chart. All characters have a Combat rating which is basically all their stats averaged plus any initiative bonuses. Only the person with the highest score rolls initiative rolls to determine if friends or foes go first. If a 1 is rolled the enemy gets to take all their actions first with the team having basically been surprised. If a 20 is rolled then the players get to take all of their actions first. Otherwise only the first action of the turn is determined by the init. roll.

So how does the seconds in spell casting etc, translate to attacks per melee. Well to be honest first off it is 1 second per level divided by the caster's level with a minimum of 1 second. So a 2nd level mage can cast 1st and second level spells at 1 second. So lets say a character has 3 attacks per turn their attacks would be in the 1st, 7th and 15th segments (it may be different on my matrix but it should be close) So a first level spell would be started and cast in the same second, but a 7th level spell would take seven seconds so if cast in the first it would also take up the second attack and a 15th level spell would take up all 3 attacks.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Mark Hall wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:level 2 by session 2 and every 2-4 sessions after? assuming 3 average, that'd be 41 sessions to reach level 15, not even a year of gaming. That's blazingly fast. What are you going to do by year 3 of the campaign when everyone's level 50? :?

That is so fast I'm not even sure how to register it. I consider a game to be going fast if i'm level 6 by the end of the first year. :lol:

I have to ask: does that pace assume a pre-set end to that particular campaign? Because at that pace you'll hit the level cap well before the story has even gotten to the mid point of the game, by what i'm used to.

Though thanks for answering: this is why I ask, it's so different I'm facinated by the rational behind it.


41 sessions is less than a year of gaming? That's completely alien to me, at least since I got out of college.

I've never been in a multi-year campaign; longest ones have been a school year, and it's gotten even scarcer since getting grown-up responsibilities.... last session I played in was in August, and juggling job schedules, child care, and everything else means that the idea of a weekly, or even monthly, game is practically impossible.

But again, I also trace some of this back to Palladium's class design; languishing at low levels with a level-dependent class sounds like torture. "My OCC can be cool, but it won't be until about year 3, when I finally hit 8th level." Sure, there's a lot to be had in the play, but if everyone else gets their cool at 1, and you get it three years later, it makes the game feel a lot longer. Part of why I prefer Savage Rifts, really.


I used to use XP but ever since I joined the military, already married, my wife only wanted me to play on the 1st and 3rd week of every month. In order to keep people used to playing VtM and D&D 3.x interested in their character development I simply made it so that every other game played the would go up a level. So playing every game in a year they'd be 12 level after a year. Normally we were only at a base for 2 years so you play PB for a year and max out your PC and then switch to another game system the next year.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Rifter11 »

In my games I made each session count as one experience point. It costs 3 points to level up for levels 2-5, 4 points for levels 6-10 and 5 for levels 11-15. It's worked extremely well so far.
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Re: What are some of your House Rules that go against Canon?

Unread post by Grazzik »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:Casting Time:
Spells take 1 second per level to cast


How does this part translate into Attacks per Melee?


Sorry for the wait on the response.

I divide rounds into 15, 1 second segments and then divide the number of attacks evenly based on a pre distributed chart. All characters have a Combat rating which is basically all their stats averaged plus any initiative bonuses. Only the person with the highest score rolls initiative rolls to determine if friends or foes go first. If a 1 is rolled the enemy gets to take all their actions first with the team having basically been surprised. If a 20 is rolled then the players get to take all of their actions first. Otherwise only the first action of the turn is determined by the init. roll.

So how does the seconds in spell casting etc, translate to attacks per melee. Well to be honest first off it is 1 second per level divided by the caster's level with a minimum of 1 second. So a 2nd level mage can cast 1st and second level spells at 1 second. So lets say a character has 3 attacks per turn their attacks would be in the 1st, 7th and 15th segments (it may be different on my matrix but it should be close) So a first level spell would be started and cast in the same second, but a 7th level spell would take seven seconds so if cast in the first it would also take up the second attack and a 15th level spell would take up all 3 attacks.


Been playing it this way all year and it is so much easier to use and track! Distribution of attacks spreads out from the middle of the round (7th second). Also allows for a good balance between cinematic and realistic combat when opponents are greatly mismatched in number of attacks. This way, fast gunslingers with a high number of attacks can shoot the pistols out of the hands of several low level thugs in their first few attacks... just like in the movies! Though, the only difference from your approach is that I've kept initiative rolls individual, as written. Ambushes/traps are handled outside of the combat round.
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