Navigate without eyes?

You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! There are no communications of any kind. Cities and towns have gone dark, and zombies fill the streets. The dead have risen and it would seem to be the end of the world. Help me, Mommy!

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Tirisilex
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Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by Tirisilex »

It says in the Corebook that Zombies do not rely on their eyes to see. That If you remove them they still can "see". How exactly do they percieve the world? I understand that PPE glows for the Zed. But not everything has PPE. So how do they percieve their surroundings without eyes?
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JimmyB
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by JimmyB »

Actually you are mixing up two things.

They still use their eyes. BUT they can can sense PPE without them.

If you blind a zombie, it does affect them. Just not as bad as a Human.
Instead of the usual -10 to combat,t hey are only -6, because they can still "sense" your PPE
to know where you are.
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cornholioprime
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by cornholioprime »

Tirisilex wrote:It says in the Corebook that Zombies do not rely on their eyes to see. That If you remove them they still can "see". How exactly do they percieve the world? I understand that PPE glows for the Zed. But not everything has PPE. So how do they percieve their surroundings without eyes?
You are mistaking "Biological Sight" for "Supernaturally-powered Sight."

As a magical effect, Zombie Eyes (or in this case their empty sockets) see "just because;" logic and science don't figure into the equation at all, and the authors of the fictional work can assign them any set of abilities that they want them to have. How do Animated Skeletons see? The same way.



In the normal course of events, corpse eyes cannot see whether they are physically there or not for a host of biological, neurological, and physical reasons.
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
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whassupman03
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by whassupman03 »

Hello...

JimmyB wrote:Actually you are mixing up two things.

They still use their eyes. BUT they can can sense PPE without them.

If you blind a zombie, it does affect them. Just not as bad as a Human.
Instead of the usual -10 to combat,t hey are only -6, because they can still "sense" your PPE
to know where you are.

Possibly, a good analogy for understanding this is comparing it to Neo's "Machine Sight" from The Matrix Revolutions (NOTE: No conversions involved! :-P).

Spoiler:
During an important scene, Neo was blinded after a fight, but he could still see machines by sensing their "aura." This is how The One was able to spot Smith in the real world and defeat it, even after he was rendered blind by that copy of Smith which possessed the human body that nearly succeeded in killing him.
In the movie, Neo gained the ability to see machines without the use of your average everyday human sense of sight, and it appeared as a sort of yellow light, which in a way was the equivalent of P.P.E. inside machines. My way of thinking is that I tend to imagine that zombies would see in the same way when their eyes are damaged enough to become conventionally useless. Well please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

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Tirisilex
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by Tirisilex »

cornholioprime wrote:
Tirisilex wrote:It says in the Corebook that Zombies do not rely on their eyes to see. That If you remove them they still can "see". How exactly do they percieve the world? I understand that PPE glows for the Zed. But not everything has PPE. So how do they percieve their surroundings without eyes?
You are mistaking "Biological Sight" for "Supernaturally-powered Sight."

As a magical effect, Zombie Eyes (or in this case their empty sockets) see "just because;" logic and science don't figure into the equation at all, and the authors of the fictional work can assign them any set of abilities that they want them to have. How do Animated Skeletons see? The same way.



In the normal course of events, corpse eyes cannot see whether they are physically there or not for a host of biological, neurological, and physical reasons.


Good answer. How do skeletons see?
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cornholioprime
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by cornholioprime »

Tirisilex wrote:Good answer. How do skeletons see?
Magically.

While mystic forces in many other fictional settings are merely "beyond even Super-Science" phenomena that follow a set of constants, in the Palladium Megaverse magic really is a "just because" energy source that doesn't correspond to scientific principles, the laws of physics, or logic.
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
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whassupman03
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by whassupman03 »

Hello...

In addition, one has to consider that even if a zombie is blind in his biological eyes, it still has the ability to sense Potential Psychic Energy (Also known as P.P.E.). Having such an ability could be considered not as a form of sight, but as a sort of "sixth sense" that allows the zombie to sense it even if its eyes are damaged beyond repair. Whether it does it through the eye sockets is one question, but one may consider that there is a significant difference between conventional sight and sensing the life force of a living being. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good night.

whassupman03 8)
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JimmyB
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by JimmyB »

Even when they have their eyes. Traps and Snares are very effective, as the
average zombie just doesn't consider the possibility.

In regards to their eyes though, they do use them. If they did not,
then why would they suffer a -6 to all combat, and 1/2 speed when "blinded" :)
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by Tor »

I guess it's -6 instead of -8 because their sense lessens the penalty a little bit, kind of like how being able to hear or smell can give you a vague idea of the source of something.
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JimmyB
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by JimmyB »

Mmmmmm PPE!....

*SNAP* Ouch, my pancreas.
Dam human traps....
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whassupman03
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by whassupman03 »

Hello...

JimmyB wrote:Mmmmmm PPE!....

*SNAP* Ouch, my pancreas.
Dam human traps....

LOL! :lol: In the words of Mr. Z: "I pity the ghoul."

JimmyB wrote:Even when they have their eyes. Traps and Snares are very effective, as the
average zombie just doesn't consider the possibility.

In regards to their eyes though, they do use them. If they did not,
then why would they suffer a -6 to all combat, and 1/2 speed when "blinded" :)

Agreed, but of course you would have to worry about the Thinkers and other creatures that are smarter than the average zombie. Thinkers and other "smart" zombies may decide to send some of their less powerful undead brethren on suicide banzai charges, to trip the traps with dumb zombies so that they and other more powerful zombies like Juggernauts, Fast Attack Zombies, and the like would be left to take on the defenders. :twisted: But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03 8)
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cornholioprime
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by cornholioprime »

JimmyB wrote:Even when they have their eyes. Traps and Snares are very effective, as the
average zombie just doesn't consider the possibility.

In regards to their eyes though, they do use them. If they did not,
then why would they suffer a -6 to all combat, and 1/2 speed when "blinded"
:)
Yes and no.

They do indeed use their eyes, just not in a biological/physics-based sense.

This means that while they do see supernaturally, they still have to see through the eye-holes in their skulls (unlike, say, an Altaran Warrior Woman's radar sense which apparently just 'radiates out' from her and doesn't require the use of her eyes at all), and they can therefore be blinded by physically obstructing their orbital sockets with opaque objects.
The Kevinomicon, Book of Siembieda 3:16.

16 Blessed art Thou above all others, O COALITION STATES, beloved of Kevin;

17 For Thou art allowed to do Evil without Limit, nor do thy Enemies retaliate.

18 Thy Military be run by Fools and Dotards.

19 Yet thy Nation suffers not. Praise be unto Him that protects thee from all harm!!
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mrloucifer
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by mrloucifer »

There is more on how zombies see humans (they see them like glow bugs) on page 6 of the Dark Places sourcebook. It answers some of these question in better detail.

Another thing to consider is that zombies dont feel and react to stimuli and their surroundings things like humans. They'll stumble, trip, run into things, stub their toes, hit their heads on low things, and more without skipping a beat. They dont care about obstacles, they just do the best they can to move through them to get at that sweet and juicy P.P.E.

Another angle to consider is that its rare to have to only deal with one zombie; when dealing with several or even a hoard of em, the kinda blinded zombies in the mix provides little comfort. :)
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Tor
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Re: Navigate without eyes?

Unread post by Tor »

Weapons strewn about would be obstacles, yet they seem to have the sense of mind to wield those occasionally.
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