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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:54 pm
  

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Draft posted for comments.

Astronomical Tables for Space Ley Lines and Nexa.
Space Ley Lines can be thought of as extensions of those found on living planets. However, unlike those found on planets the their locations change fairly rapidly due to the influence of planets and stars around them. These effects are greatest on space ley lines found in the plane where the system’s planets orbit. This is also where most of the space ley lines in a star system reside. However, most ley line movement can be defined a vibrational waves form, moving back and forth within a definable area.
Due to the vast distances of space the power available from space ley lines is diminished compared to those of a living world. The width of space ley lines tend to quite a bit wider than those on a planet, increasing spells’ durations durations by 10% when they are within 100 miles ( km) of the space ley line and increasing the duration and range by 50% when on a space ley line. Mages and other magic users that can draw power from ley lines will only be able to draw 2 PPE each minute from a space ley line.
~Typically, if there are no living planets with in the stelar system the base PPE levels are half that of systems normally frequented by people.
~ Binary star systems have double the amount of available PPE in their space ley lines than single star systems.
~Except at gravity wells (stars, planets, and jump points) space ley lines don’t meet at nexus points within star systems. At open space gravity wells, a.k.a jump points, is three times as much as on the space ley lines.
~ Planetary alignments, are when two planets in consecutive orbits line up as viewed from the star they orbit. The PPE available between those two planets is doubles starting at closest approach and continuing for one hour.
~Multiple Planetary Alinements, are when three planets of the star system are within 15 degrees of radial separation. 10 PPE per melee is available to mages throughout the system for the duration.
~ Comets, that have a developed tail or coma there are there is a 15 PPE per melee bonus system wide. If the comet falls in to the star, the PPE availability is shut down for 1D6 days, and jump points cannot be used for the duration of the shutdown.
~ Coronal Mass Ejections and Solar Flairs, each supercharge the space ley lines of the system. Sending a pulse of energy out along the lines, equalling 1,000 PPE for those that happen to be on a line at the time. There is a 85% likely hood of this pulse causing a rift at Jump Points through out the system. If a planet is hit by the ejecta, then it charges up that planet’s Ley Lines and Nexa by double the base amount. (If the mage can draw 10 PPE per melee, then they could draw another 10 PPE exclusive of other modifiers.)

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Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:34 pm
  

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I like the idea of binary stars having more available PPE...it makes them attractive, despite the risks, to magic-users to visit(or, if there are available planets, colonize)...though maybe not double the PPE, maybe just 50% more?

Not sure comet should get PPE bonuses....but I'll bite. What's the range you need to be at relative to the comet to siphon off PPE? Standing on the nucleus? Getting sandblasted in the tail?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:48 pm
  

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bianary....even doubling only would bump the PPE up to 4 per melee.
Updated the comet.
Unless otherwise stated these would only effect space LL.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:27 pm
  

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How bout solar eclipses? Would they act as local gravity lenses and INCREASE PPE along the course of the shadow-path, or would they DISRUPT the flow of PPE from the system primary?


Ewww...shades of 'The Magic Goes Away'....Meteor showers...PPE infall event or just space junk coming down?

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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
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Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
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And the Turning of a Page"

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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:31 pm
  

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Eclipses and meteor showers occur on planets or in their atmosphere. Thus are not space events that can effect space ley lines.

Thou, astroids clusters that block access to PPE or have an anti-magic effect within them is a good idea. This would be a localized continuing 'event'. Sort of like saying that the SLL get stronger when they are near a planet or a living planet.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:31 pm
  

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Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
I think this entire concept is nifty

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Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:47 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
~ Comets, that have a developed tail or coma there are there is a 15 PPE per melee bonus system wide. If the comet falls in to the star, the PPE avalibility is shut down for 1D6 days, and jump points cannot be used for the duration of the shutdown.


Okay, I gotta warn you, I'm going to test this hard with a hypothetical.
Suppose my wealthy space-going mage wants to set up a solar-system-wide workshop with an elevated PPE level so visiting/resident mages can work on their projects(or one big project) with the benefit of extra oomph to work with.
I set my spacecraft around suitable cometary objects and use close passes, maybe with some gravity drive manipulation, to divert the iceballs into cometary orbits. Maybe speed them up. I do this with a number of suitable objects, and aim them to come in-system at roughly the same time, on different orbits, so I have a constant stream of comets zipping through the system elevating the PPE level.
So, cumulative bonuses for more than one comet? Or can I keep up a sustained higher ambient PPE level by conveyor-belting a steady stream of comets through my lil' solar system? Or has my manipulation of the comets' paths and period somehow negated their PPE-raising properties? In that case, what if I set another natural object as a gravitational tractor to accomplish the same effect, only indirectly?

And that slides into another related question...If comets have an effect on PPE levels and in-system leyline activity, what about periods when there are LOTS of comets wandering around a solar system...like in the early stages of solar system formation, where we got plenty of primordial stuff flying about? Are solar system accretion discs hotbeds of rampant PPE activity?

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:49 am
  

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Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
i mean if you can divert comets on a daily basis through a solar system, you've pretty much already 'won the the game'

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:28 pm
  

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Thank you zerombr for saying you think they are nifty. That means much to me that someone liked the ideas presented enough to say so.

I included comets because they have been seen as mystical harblriners of something or another for time immemorial.

Since they are put in the form and format of how PB put the planetary effects of stuff on available PPE. I shall follow PB's procedure for answering 'what if...' questions.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:34 pm
  

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zerombr wrote:
I mean if you can divert comets on a daily basis through a solar system, you've pretty much already 'won the the game'


Even today they're discussing gravity-tractor maneuvers on potential Earth-striking asteroids, because even a Voyager-sized probe imparts a small amount of pull even on a giant rock. Normally it's inconsequential, but if you do it at the right time, you can create small changes that snowball with time.
So if you were a magic-using society with access to just ion-drive probes, and a long-term vision, you could conceivably set up a big PPE enrichment event decades or centuries in advance.
Contragravity drives just allows the process to be faster.

But the question still stands, that if comets have an effect on solar Ley line activity and ambient PPE levels, then somebody just might see fit to begin engineering the optimal conditions for PPE elevation.
It adds color to an advanced culture, but it could just as well be a major factor/mcguffin in a campaign.
Like: Aliens want to invade the solar system, and turn it into a dimensional nexus on a larger scale than Rifts Earth. They start engineering a veritable comet storm that will allow them to perform all sorts of power-rituals that will be to our detriment.
Or maybe Mogo the MegaMage's cult, which is secretly behind several aerospace firms, has 'created' several new comets to jumpstart their insidious plan. Even if the heroes blow up the cult's HQ, unless the satellites still shepherding the comets receive proper instructions, the solar system may suffer haywire leylines or the Earth gets struck by one or more of the comets.


However, if the mere physical presence of orbiting comets is not enough to raise PPE levels, then other factors must be in play to create the idea that comets have a metaphysical influence. And, while influencing the alignment of planets may be beyond the ability of all but the most powerful spacefaring civilizations, influencing the orbits of asteroids and cometary bodies IS possible, even with fairly low levels of space technology and a good amount of calculation. That's why I'm stubborn on this topic.


And still on the subject of comets....It raises the level of PPE in a solar system, yes? How MUCH of the solar system? From the orbital radius point of approach when the comet starts sublimating and forming a tail? Or all the way out to the heliopause(If the Ley line goes out that far)?

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:00 am
  

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Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
respectfully, I stand by my words ;) If you're at that point, a small extra bit of PPE from a comet passing by isn't going to change much. but on a more serious note, I'm split on the idea of comets adding to PPE, they are a natural celestial occurrence but to me PPE is mostly about the lifestream FF7 style, and comets don't generally contain life. I would think most cosmic ley lines are planet to planet in massive rings? IDK Drew knows more than I do

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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:10 pm
  

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zerombr wrote:
respectfully, I stand by my words ;) If you're at that point, a small extra bit of PPE from a comet passing by isn't going to change much. but on a more serious note, I'm split on the idea of comets adding to PPE, they are a natural celestial occurrence but to me PPE is mostly about the lifestream FF7 style, and comets don't generally contain life. I would think most cosmic ley lines are planet to planet in massive rings? IDK Drew knows more than I do


If you're treating PPE levels as a result of space-warping, rather than merely the presence of life, than gravitational effects bending space/time can affect the 'leaking' of PPE from whatever subspace strata cast-off life energy percolates down to/zero point energy flows up from.
Comets MIGHT bend weaknesses in space/time the way my gravity-tractor examples do, but comets, mass-wise, are such minor gravitational effectors that they shouldn't be able to do anything unless acting in combo with other events.

But, as Drewkitty has stated: "I included comets because they have been seen as mystical harblriners of something or another for time immemorial."

Anti-Comet Inclusion Stance: ...from the perspective of people and events ON planets. That groups their effects with eclipses and other planetary events that don't/shouldn't have any effect on space Ley lines.

Pro-Comet Inclusion Stance: Comets must therefore have an effect on spacial Ley lines so profound that it even touches planets, if they can have an observable effect there.


The matter requires greater clarification.


Now, a few more questions, since this is still just the initial draft:

Drewkitty, you mention binary stars and their effects on space Ley lines. How about TRINARY stars? Rifts Dimension Book Anvil Galaxy allows for the rare trinity system, and even more exotic multiple stars. What's your ruling for such star configurations?

And, another big celestial gorilla that's going to come up.

Black Holes.

(we can go into dwarf stars, pulsars, and quasars later, but let's deal with the big gravitational singularities first).

Drewkitty, you have a good idea with this thread, but it's still in the beginning stages and while it has the promise for enriching space as a magic environment, by the same token, you don't want to accidentally introduce armor-piercing vegetables into your game unless you get some things nailed down.

_________________
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------


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Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:58 pm
  

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I really like some of the stuff I'm seeing here. I created a few ley-lines that connected Earth-Mars or Earth-Luna or even Europa to Mars but aside from that I never gave it much thought. The only thing I see that I'm not sure about is solar flares and mass ejections. Not sure why those would increase PPE.

I have always thought that ley-lines were immune to things like gravity. In a Phase World I had a scenario that took place near the event horizon of a black hole and I always described the local ley-lines as unaffected.

Is there something in the books that would make you go this way or was it just a choice.

Great ideas on this and I might add some of it to my Phase World games.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:24 pm
  

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Do multiple comets have a cumulitve effects? Normally, I would presume that 'no they do not' because most of the time I'm not a muchkin. But then on other, more detailed, texts I've had comments like the presented rules are too cluncky (complicated I'm guessing they ment). As to comet's effects on planetary, that is outside the scope of the text.

However, maybe they have different effects then normal for planetary surfaces. Like making normally sane people act weird or change their normal daily activites. Maybe someone is a were that only change when a comet can be seen in the sky.



Multiple stars: I will start off with the question 'What is it about sunlight that hurts vampires?"

Trianary star systems, I would not give them any more then bianary stars get.
Black Holes (stellar mass+)....nothing that manipulates the amount of PPE in Space Leylines. Except for not having any living planets in their system. (Quasars done too. Since they are just SM BHs feeding.)

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:28 am
  

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Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
you know I think the easiest way to solve the comet issue could be simply that if the comet arrives on a portentious day, then there's an extra boost.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:51 pm
  

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zerombr wrote:
you know I think the easiest way to solve the comet issue could be simply that if the comet arrives on a portentious day, then there's an extra boost.


Then you have to define what a portentous day is...That can be the Oracle of Delphi declaring that King Midas will die at thirty-degrees past noon, or Young Lord Stinko's head maid declaring that he's going to get a bath that evening whether he likes it or not. :D

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:02 pm
  

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Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
how about what we already have defined as days of note? summer solstice, equinoxes, noon, etc. Granted it may be different for other planets, especially with a binary sun, or multiple moons, but things that fall into that same concept of celestial rotation

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:53 pm
  

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zerombr wrote:
how about what we already have defined as days of note? summer solstice, equinoxes, noon, etc. Granted it may be different for other planets, especially with a binary sun, or multiple moons, but things that fall into that same concept of celestial rotation

And that is getting away from the idea of the Comets are effecting the Space leylines, for the already rejected idea that some sort of minor planetary idea is effecting them.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:32 pm
  

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On the other hand we don't want to get so realistic that we edit out magic altogether, but for the sake of the concept of this table, we have to have some sort of underlying constants that apply to the generation and distribution of magic energies.

But we have to bear in mind that some effects are only perceived to exist, while other effects are manifested, but away from planets where they can't be felt/observed.

I still favor gravitational space-warping as a factor in the formation of weak spots in space/time, hence why magical activity may be felt more profoundly on planets(as concentrations of mass/gravity), especially those deep inside solar gravity fields. But we also have to figure in the effects of life in creating greater ambient PPE. However, the mechanics of PPE on planets is better documented elsewhere and is not the focus of Drewkitty's tables concept.

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:57 pm
  

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How would you think Wormholes/D-syphons would effect SLL if they opened?

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Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:25 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
How would you think Wormholes/D-syphons would effect SLL if they opened?



Depending where they are in relationship to a SLL....If they were connected or within under an AU, I'd say the Ley line would be disrupted and even diverted into the wormhole(especially if it were a one-way 'suction' portal.

Anywhere else in a solar system or free space? The worst that might happen might be a slight dispersal effect(lose 1d4 absorbable PPE) as the leyline loses some cohesion, to nothing at all, if the wormhole is more than 1 or 2 AU away.

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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:17 pm
  

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How about the following....

~Wormholes ( Dimensional Syphons) all have the same effect during their existence. They reduce the available PPE around them for 1 A.U. by 1 PPE per minute. Even those created hyper-gravtic jump drives (for thirty minutes on each end) and gateway structures. The major effects are not while they are active, but when they close. When they close they emit a magical pulse that elevates the available PPE in space ley lines. (GMs may chose that the larger effects can effect planet side ley lines.)
❍ Week old Wormhole, will cause a +10 PPE per minute to the space ley lines for an hour when it closes.
❍ Month old Wormhole, will cause a +30 PPE per minute to the space ley lines for an hour when it closes.
❍ Months old Wormhole, will cause a +30 PPE per minute to the space ley lines for 1 hour +30 minutes per additional month of age when it closes.
❍ Year(s) old Wormhole, will cause a +100 PPE per minute for the the space around where it was; 400,000 miles; for 10 minutes, and +30 PPE to the space ley lines of the system for a day (24 hours) for each year of age.
❍ Stable Centuries Old Wormhole, collapsing will cause a major upheaval within star system. Flooding the system with magic that changes all life in the system. Persists for a decade for every century of age the stable wormhole was.
❍ Gateway Structures, if destroyed will raise the PPE levels in that systems for +1 PPE per minutes to the space ley lines for a year for every year between the gateway was built and it's destruction

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Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:18 pm
  

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I know I'm a late entry, but i had a thought, what if space ley lines are a phenomena of gravitic flux lines, similar to magnetic flux lines, so if you had a material, that would allow you to detect and modle the effects, similar to iron dust/filings allow you to see the effect of the magnetic fields, then you could see the effect of the grav fields. What you are seeing with the effects of planets, comets, etc, is the masses are acting as a lens so something, like a black hole, or a wormhole can effectively be an enormous lens, and it going away, would trigger a rebound effect,

Just a thought.

Anyway i might have multiple stars, actually generate more energy the more stars (stellar masses) that are interacting with each other. The big question being weather that energy is accessible,


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Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:58 pm
  

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guardiandashi wrote:
I know I'm a late entry, but i had a thought, what if space ley lines are a phenomena of gravitic flux lines, similar to magnetic flux lines, so if you had a material, that would allow you to detect and modle the effects, similar to iron dust/filings allow you to see the effect of the magnetic fields, then you could see the effect of the grav fields. What you are seeing with the effects of planets, comets, etc, is the masses are acting as a lens so something, like a black hole, or a wormhole can effectively be an enormous lens, and it going away, would trigger a rebound effect,

Just a thought.

Anyway i might have multiple stars, actually generate more energy the more stars (stellar masses) that are interacting with each other. The big question being weather that energy is accessible,

I would like to point out that what you talked about has nothing to do with ley lines. And maybe you should read up on them. The text about them can be found in the magic sections of the different PB games core books.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:00 am
  

Hero

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:49 am
Posts: 1340
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
guardiandashi wrote:
I know I'm a late entry, but i had a thought, what if space ley lines are a phenomena of gravitic flux lines, similar to magnetic flux lines, so if you had a material, that would allow you to detect and modle the effects, similar to iron dust/filings allow you to see the effect of the magnetic fields, then you could see the effect of the grav fields. What you are seeing with the effects of planets, comets, etc, is the masses are acting as a lens so something, like a black hole, or a wormhole can effectively be an enormous lens, and it going away, would trigger a rebound effect,

Just a thought.

Anyway i might have multiple stars, actually generate more energy the more stars (stellar masses) that are interacting with each other. The big question being weather that energy is accessible,

I would like to point out that what you talked about has nothing to do with ley lines. And maybe you should read up on them. The text about them can be found in the magic sections of the different PB games core books.

I suppose that if one ignores the entire first paragraph of his post, then one might have concluded that it had nothing to do with ley lines. :roll:

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Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:56 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15094
Location: Eastvale, calif
gravitic flux lines is techno babble that I might expect from a ST engener or navigator.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:47 am
  

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Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 6320
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
I think your bonus for comets should be changed. Traditionally they were harbingers of bad news. To reflect that instead of a PPE bonus they should give a bonus to divinations, clairvoyance, and similar powers/spells, but only for deaths and/or disasters.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:36 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15094
Location: Eastvale, calif
The Beast wrote:
I think your bonus for comets should be changed. Traditionally they were harbingers of bad news. To reflect that instead of a PPE bonus they should give a bonus to divinations, clairvoyance, and similar powers/spells, but only for deaths and/or disasters.

That is a good idea.....but that idea is more compatible for ground based LL/LLN bonuses.

Is space they are a navigation hazard....

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