Board index » SDC Worlds » Heroes Unlimited™

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:07 am
  

Wanderer

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:14 am
Posts: 67
To come back to the topic for a bit - if you did a training unlimited book, you could give a small section to training to use super powers, making official rules for doing things like Shock's proficiency with her super abilities. Similar maybe with magic/psi. Even if the focus is on the special training categories, a little bit for everyone usually helps with sales...


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:58 am
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 1656
Location: Houston, TX
Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
zerombr wrote:
I think its tough to make flashbangs etc effective without making them overpowering. Not to mention that overall they don't work near as well in open areas. I've seen vids of people throwing flashbangs out in a parking lot and it doesn't really hurt much.

I know a campus cop who had a few injuries when one bounced next to him in a training session but in general I don't think they hurt much. Like I said before I have just messed around with reducing the duration of the penalty.

zerombr wrote:
on a similar note, cloud of smoke is a damn good spell for lvl 1, and blinding flash is almost as good.

Yes they are which is one of the reasons I haven't messed too much with flashbangs.

pad300 wrote:
To come back to the topic for a bit - if you did a training unlimited book, you could give a small section to training to use super powers, making official rules for doing things like Shock's proficiency with her super abilities. Similar maybe with magic/psi. Even if the focus is on the special training categories, a little bit for everyone usually helps with sales...

If you are doing this what about importing Lore skills from BTS and/or Rifts? I always just add them in but it would be good to add to new skill programs.

_________________
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider - WB 32: Lemuria
Ultimate Insider - WB 33: Northern Gun 1
Ultimate Insider - WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer - Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider - Rifts Bestiary: Volume 1


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:24 am
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
If there's a reasonable way to build on powers, magic, and psionics that's handled as training to increase effectiveness of existing powers, spells, or Psionic abilities instead of creating new ones, I could see putting it in Training Unlimited. That said, I'd want to keep the page count rebooted to such a section to a minimum, as the bulk of the book ought to be on Special Training and Education & Skills.

But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.


Last edited by dataweaver on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:27 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 1656
Location: Houston, TX
Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
I've always thought this should work like Robot/Power Armor combat skills in Rifts or like hand to hand skills. You sacrifice a few skills to be more proficient in your powers. I never did much with this but it could be interesting to have a skill program that has a mix of lore skills with skills that provide bonuses.

_________________
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider - WB 32: Lemuria
Ultimate Insider - WB 33: Northern Gun 1
Ultimate Insider - WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer - Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider - Rifts Bestiary: Volume 1


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:48 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
Feels like a skill tax to me. I don't know many mages who would pass up extra training.

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:47 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 1656
Location: Houston, TX
Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
zerombr wrote:
Feels like a skill tax to me. I don't know many mages who would pass up extra training.

I never liked that phrase skill tax. I have actually heard it a lot with piloting skills where they have to take combat separate from the piloting skill. Some players want a generalist so they want more skills and to other things. A person who wants the ultimate mage will sacrifice those skills to be a better mage but won't have much versatility.

Now I have never used a system like this, and I'm not sure I would like it at all, but I can see this being an addition to a skills book.

_________________
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider - WB 32: Lemuria
Ultimate Insider - WB 33: Northern Gun 1
Ultimate Insider - WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer - Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider - Rifts Bestiary: Volume 1


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:42 pm
  

User avatar
Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
dataweaver wrote:
But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.
I could see skills being its own book. They could revamp the education system in it as well.

_________________
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:10 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
Warshield73 wrote:
I never liked that phrase skill tax. I have actually heard it a lot with piloting skills where they have to take combat separate from the piloting skill. Some players want a generalist so they want more skills and to other things. A person who wants the ultimate mage will sacrifice those skills to be a better mage but won't have much versatility.

Now I have never used a system like this, and I'm not sure I would like it at all, but I can see this being an addition to a skills book.



I think its a sound argument though. Think about how you could take Pilot Aircraft but not Read Sensory Equipment. It may be possible to do it, but it sure seems logical that you'd need RSE. The sacrifice would have to be pretty severe to be a worthy tradeoff. Hell, we already have battle mages and such, so IDK if having more of that stuff is worth it.*

*Said by someone who was just about to write up something in that same vein, so I know how hypocritical it sounds.

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:14 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
On the mystic training thing, I think that someone who is specifically trained for more effective use of his powers (or spells, or whatever) would be more along the lines of an Ancient Master, conceptually: he's dedicated his life to mastering the intricacies of his powers, and is lacking in all but the most basic skills. Forgo the usual Education & Skills rules, and get an extremely limited set of skills and a few upgrades to your powers. If power training is just a skill or even a skill program, everyone will take it if they can.

Aside from that, one of the things I like about the skill programs setup is that it mitigates the skill tax. There are no hard requirements on how many or how few skills are in a Program; so if you have a bunch of related skills that are individually overly specialized or otherwise not particularly useful, you can just put more skills in the Program until you have enough to make it worth taking.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:15 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
the immortal master mage might be the closest you'd get to, currently.

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:28 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
dataweaver wrote:
But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.
I could see skills being its own book. They could revamp the education system in it as well.

I'm very leery of “revamping” the education system that sounds dangerously close to “replace it with something like BTS's education system”, which I don't want. On the other hand, if you mean something like “add more education options, more skills, and now skills programs” — that is, something that builds on the system that's already there instead of junking it and going with something completely different — I'm all in favor of it.

As for a book dedicated solely to skills: you might be right from a purely game system perspective: I could easily see there being enough material to fill a book with nothing but skills. But from a marketing perspective, that lacks the “cool factor” that the average gamer is going to want to see. That's where upgraded Special Training comes in.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:39 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
We have too dang many skills as it is, IMO. but thats another topic. lol

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:44 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 1656
Location: Houston, TX
Comment: "I will not be silenced. I will not submit. I will find the truth and shout it to the world. "
dataweaver wrote:
On the mystic training thing, I think that someone who is specifically trained for more effective use of his powers (or spells, or whatever) would be more along the lines of an Ancient Master, conceptually: he's dedicated his life to mastering the intricacies of his powers, and is lacking in all but the most basic skills. Forgo the usual Education & Skills rules, and get an extremely limited set of skills and a few upgrades to your powers. If power training is just a skill or even a skill program, everyone will take it if they can.

This is what I have wanted for HU for a long time. A character who wants a lot of skills, who wants to do things other that her/his powers, can have them. Those that want to be the ultimate in there power category can use skills to really bring this up.

dataweaver wrote:
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
dataweaver wrote:
But yeah; expanding the skill list to include things from other Palladium games that HU is lacking (such as Lore skills) would definitely be in the purview of this book.
I could see skills being its own book. They could revamp the education system in it as well.

I'm very leery of “revamping” the education system that sounds dangerously close to “replace it with something like BTS's education system”, which I don't want. On the other hand, if you mean something like “add more education options, more skills, and now skills programs” — that is, something that builds on the system that's already there instead of junking it and going with something completely different — I'm all in favor of it.

I've said it before but I think I prefer the system in BTS. The HU skill programs are just so generic and if you random roll it then characters have a really hard time creating the character they want. The BTS system has actual occupations with some personality to it. Now I'm still using HU system for my characters but I wouldn't mind a brand new skill system for HU.

zerombr wrote:
We have too dang many skills as it is, IMO. but thats another topic. lol

There is no such things as too many of anything in a game. Avery super power, psionic, magic spell, power armor, or skill is just one more choice a player gets on the way to making the perfect character. Plus, like everything else, if there are skills you don't like don't use them.

_________________
Northern Gun Chief of Robotics
Designer of NG-X40 Storm Hammer Power Armor & NG-HC1000 Dragonfly Hover Chopper
Big game hunter, explorer extra ordinaire and expert on the Aegis Buffalo
Ultimate Insider - WB 32: Lemuria
Ultimate Insider - WB 33: Northern Gun 1
Ultimate Insider - WB 34: Northern Gun 2
Showdown Backer - Robotech RPG Tactics
Benefactor Insider - Rifts Bestiary: Volume 1


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:14 pm
  

User avatar
Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
dataweaver wrote:
I'm very leery of “revamping” the education system that sounds dangerously close to “replace it with something like BTS's education system”, which I don't want. On the other hand, if you mean something like “add more education options, more skills, and now skills programs” — that is, something that builds on the system that's already there instead of junking it and going with something completely different — I'm all in favor of it.
More education options, skills and skill programs is what I'm referring to.

dataweaver wrote:
As for a book dedicated solely to skills: you might be right from a purely game system perspective: I could easily see there being enough material to fill a book with nothing but skills. But from a marketing perspective, that lacks the “cool factor” that the average gamer is going to want to see. That's where upgraded Special Training comes in.
You have a point. I'm just saying it makes more sense to break skills up into their own book.

_________________
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:58 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
For what it's worth, the majority of the Special Training subtypes are skill-based, too — they're just based on skills that are only available through special training.

But I tend to agree that Training Unlimited should mostly be about the skills. Things like the gadgets that spies get, or the martial arts powers that Ancient Masters get, should be kept to a minimum. Likewise with the proposed Powers Training idea. And if there's not enough space, these are the things that should be cut first.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:23 pm
  

User avatar
Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
I have also long thought that there should be a Dancer Special Training, where the character can combine dance and combat.

_________________
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:55 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
Battle Dancer, yeah. I know how I'd do it too, but I think it'd be more for Fantasy

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:39 pm
  

User avatar
Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
zerombr wrote:
Battle Dancer, yeah. I know how I'd do it too, but I think it'd be more for Fantasy
I could see it being adapted for the urban jungle, too, though. Inner city hiphop hero. LOL

_________________
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:47 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
I think it would work best as a type of physical training.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:56 pm
  

User avatar
Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
dataweaver wrote:
I think it would work best as a type of physical training.
However you would want to do it. I've written it up a variation of it as a superability as well. Dancing is one skill that is not developed enough in the books as it is currently written.

_________________
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:55 am
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
I'm thinking that physical training might be a good basis for a “battle dancer”; but Stage Magician might work better as an different take on a dancer that focuses more on her role as an entertainer and less on her as a kind of fighter. (You might also consider singers and other musicians in the same way, riffing off of the Stage Magician as Entertainer notion.)

More generally, I think a good policy would be that whenever you're tempted to introduce a new kind of Special Training, first check to see if you can achieve the same results using an existing kind, or a tweaked version of an existing kind. Only invent a new kind if the amount of tweaking you'd have to do pretty much amounts to creating a new kind anyway.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:18 am
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
Essentially, I'd have it replace parkour as the stunting skill for my article,

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:10 pm
  

User avatar
Virtuoso of Variants

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
Posts: 6680
Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
dataweaver wrote:
I'm thinking that physical training might be a good basis for a “battle dancer”; but Stage Magician might work better as an different take on a dancer that focuses more on her role as an entertainer and less on her as a kind of fighter. (You might also consider singers and other musicians in the same way, riffing off of the Stage Magician as Entertainer notion.)
Not all dancers are entertainers. I was thinking more along the lines of a fighting style than a performance skill set. But it could be developed either way. It would just be nice to have more options.

dataweaver wrote:
More generally, I think a good policy would be that whenever you're tempted to introduce a new kind of Special Training, first check to see if you can achieve the same results using an existing kind, or a tweaked version of an existing kind. Only invent a new kind if the amount of tweaking you'd have to do pretty much amounts to creating a new kind anyway.
I already do that, but it would be nice to see how somebody else would develop it as well.

_________________
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
http://wiki.thedeificnmi.com/index.php?title=Main_Page


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:09 pm
  

Knight

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:01 am
Posts: 4268
Location: Québec
What do you think of the Special training types from Rifter 79,80,81,82 and 83?


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:52 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:34 pm
Posts: 674
They're the inspiration for this topic.


          Top  
 
 Post subject: Re: Training Unlimited?
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:10 pm
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 557
Location: "The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast
Comment: Rifter Contributer 79, 81,82,83,84
Answer the question! Lol

_________________
"The Guides to the Megaverse(tm)" Podcast at https://guidesmegaverse.podbean.com/
Author of "Setting the Stage" - Rifter 79, "Hitting the Streets" - Rifter 81, "Hitting the Gym" - Rifter 82
"Saving the World", and "On the Hunt" - Rifter 83
and lastly, my baby, my long term project... The Dark City of Cascade - Rifter 84.


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group