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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:45 pm
  

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Yeah, The Publisher Guy

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Why cancel Nightbane: Shadows of Light?

Someone just brought to my attention that there has been rampant speculation on why we cancelled the Nightbane sourcebook, Shadows of Light. That’s an easy one . . .

Um, in case you haven’t noticed, Palladium Books is in financial difficulty, and is fighting to stay alive!!!! Consequently, we will be discontinuing books that are slow sellers. It took a little more than three years to sell the initial print run of about 2500 copies. That's half the usual press run for our books which usually sell out in one year. Not exactly a smash hit, so it is cancelled/discontinued. We may reprint the book at some point in the future (as in years in the future) or we may offer it as a PDF next year for a reasonable fee (we may be offering a number of our out of print books as PDF files in the year to come).

Because Palladium has a long history of keeping most of it’s books in print all the time, people notice it when we discontinue one. Well, with our current crisis and a soft RPG market, you can expect to see Palladium discontinue more slow titles in the months to come.

We also have a dozen key, major titles (Juicer Uprising, Rifts® Free Quebec, Coalition War Campaign, Mindwerks, Wolfen Empire, Powers Unlimited Two, to name a few) that remain “temporarily” out of print, with other titles running low. They will be back! We just don’t know when yet, or how soon. Our resources are limited.

Like I keep telling people, thanks to our fans, Palladium is here today and Palladium’s situation is much better than it was back in April, 2006. However, our long-term future remains uncertain. We are optimistic and full of ideas, but we still have a long way to go before Palladium is completely healthy and back on its feet. Please bear with us. We’re doing the best we can to keep key books in print and new titles coming.

I apologize for those of you disappointed, frustrated or dismayed about how long it is taking us to reprint vital books. We are working hard to keep Palladium running and to get back on our feet, but it will take us a while to do so. I hope you understand.

Keep the faith.

Kevin Siembieda
Publisher, Flag Bearer and the Guy Who Has to Make the Tough Decisions
August 16, 2006


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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:49 pm
  

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Thanks for the update.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:12 pm
  

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Yeah, The Publisher Guy

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Figured I better post this here, too.

On a brighter note, let me say that I have every intention of keeping Nightbane going. I loved CJ's original concepts and heroes who have the power to save the world only a) they have to turn into monsters to use their powers, and b) they don't know how to use those powers (yet) to save the world! Nice.

Could it be a Nightlord's plot? I don't know, but the Nightbane line has suffered its share of bad luck. CJ left shortly after it's launch, Kevin Hassall left for more lucrative paying work after just one book, things didn't work out with Jason Vey (I'm not happy with his work), and a couple of potential freelancers since either didn't follow through and vanished, or I didn't like the direction they wanted to take the line.

Personally, I'd like to see a new writer(s) pick up where CJ left off and give us MUCH more information about the Nightbane (and playing them), their mission/purpose, Nightlord conspiracies, why are the Nightbane a danger to the Nightlords, and similar. I've had ideas for a couple of sourcebooks myself, but I have other commitments.

I can say, that I have spoken to one particular new guy who sounds like he really has a handle on where to take the Nightbane line. We talked about his doing a couple of sourcebooks and with any luck we'll have something by the end of 2007, but I've got him working on a weird and wonderful secret project first. (No, not for Nightbane. And no, I'm not gonna tell you his name or what the project is, at least not yet). Keep your fingers crossed that we can thwart the Nightlords' sinister plot and get a couple new Nightbane sourcebooks out next year!!!!

Sincerely,
Kevin Siembieda
Publisher and Mastermind of Future Product


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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:59 pm
  

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Don't hold your breath waiting for it to be reprinted.....but if there is a NB revival then they still have it to reprint.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:48 pm
  

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Comment: Darkness...You Afraid?
drewkitty wrote:
Don't hold your breath waiting for it to be reprinted.....but if there is a NB revival then they still have it to reprint.


I figured its a difficult market area. What with that certain other couple companys "Dark/Horror" game lines.
Its nice to hear there are a few writers who are seriously interested, especially one that Kevin thinks has a feel on the setting and where to go with it.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:27 pm
  

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I love this series, and it would be a shame to see it end. This genre is definatly for me. I play Rifts also, but I'm not the greatest at GMing, but Nightbane I rock. My players love my Nightbane ideas. I've come up with so much for this series, and I just got it two months ago. I already have a full notebook full of ideas. I really hope some people will step up to continue this wonderful series.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:44 am
  

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Well, one of the positive aspects of the Crisis of Treachery and Palladium's plea for help defenitely is, that we - the fans - now get explanations and postings from The Man himself. I really appreciate this.

on topic:

1) Actually, it's no wonder that SoL didnt sell well - but the explanation given is way too simple in my opinion. Blaming it on the author is the easy thing, but there sure are other factors for SoL being a "slow seller". For instance, if for six (!!) years you dont publish ANYTHING new for a small RPG-system like Nightbane, its a bit like killing it off: The hardcore-fans who love the game will still play it, they will have developed their own ideas and material to keep the adventure going and the campaign(s) running. But people who want more support will have been long gone. And new buyers may not be attracted to a gaming-system with no support whatsoever (sometimes you can smell the corpse of a dying system). So, once you bring out a new book after six long years, most of the buyers will come from the small segment of hardcore-fans, all the others having shifted their attention to other systems / games. (I guess if PB would publish a sourcebook for, say, Systems Failure, it wouldnt sell good at all...and that wouldnt automatically be the fault of the author).

2) If KS says that he wasnt happy with Jason Vey's work, I think the question is justified: Why did Palladium Books print it then?? Why did PB not change the stuff KS didnt like or have the author himself re-write it?? Is PB not standing behind their own published books?

3) KS documented will to keep Nightbane alive is very positive. As a GM of Palladium Fantasy, Nightbane and BtS I am not optimistic that I see any stuff for the PB-systems I play and love because PB concentrated on RIFTS so much in the past years and in their economic crisis they will probably relay even more on their biggest seller. But, of course, I still hope to see new Nightbane-material.

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- From the desk of Kevin Siembieda, The Rifter 12.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:29 pm
  

Hero

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Vidynn wrote:
2) If KS says that he wasnt happy with Jason Vey's work, I think the question is justified: Why did Palladium Books print it then?? Why did PB not change the stuff KS didnt like or have the author himself re-write it?? Is PB not standing behind their own published books?


Vidynn, Kevin DID edit the book. Whole chunks of material were removed, such as the "true" Knights Templar (only the Dark Slayer O.C.C. remains). Also, at least a couple of the new psychic O.C.C.s were edited. The Psi-Leech wasn't supposed to have those wolverine-like "psychic claws". Those were added by Kevin. Likewise, many of the powers for the Psi-Illusionist, particularly the higher level ones, were tweaked. The Voynich Manuscript became the Venice/Cipher Manuscript.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:05 pm
  

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I will be getting the Minion Wars books, Just becasue they are Crossovers into HU and PF.......Maybe thay could work in a NB crossover book to :D Or just a small book about the size of a rifter. I wouldn't even mind if it was just a side story from the main minionwar books.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:33 pm
  

Hero

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Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:45 pm
  

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Mike Taylor wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


I agree that Nightbane works best the less diluted it is. Having said that, I've already made peace with the 4-way power struggle in the Dark Day universe, between Nightbane, Nightlords, vampires, and demons (with humans either caught in the middle or taking up sides, depending on your campaign). I've had my NB players fight demons, who kind of teleport in and out to cause havoc. This naturally raises the question "Where did they come from?" I also had a demon steal something belonging to the players. This raises the question "Where did the demon go with my stuff and how can I get it back?"

Sooo .. I will probably pick up the Hades and Dyval books for the Minion War, just to have some source material should I ever decide to let the PCs track down their stolen stuff.

da Nerdbane

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:30 am
  

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Nerdbane wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


I agree that Nightbane works best the less diluted it is. Having said that, I've already made peace with the 4-way power struggle in the Dark Day universe, between Nightbane, Nightlords, vampires, and demons (with humans either caught in the middle or taking up sides, depending on your campaign).


Uh...wait, how is this differnt. that IS the currnet power struggle as already laied out in the books :P

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Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:30 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Nerdbane wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


I agree that Nightbane works best the less diluted it is. Having said that, I've already made peace with the 4-way power struggle in the Dark Day universe, between Nightbane, Nightlords, vampires, and demons (with humans either caught in the middle or taking up sides, depending on your campaign).


Uh...wait, how is this differnt. that IS the currnet power struggle as already laied out in the books :P


Sorry, guess I wasn't making the point very clearly. Try this:

- Mike said he'd like to see Nightbane stay away from crossovers, which I agree with as a blanket statement.

- Mike also said that he hopes Nightbane stays outside the Minion War, which I'm ambivalent about. This is also moot because as far as I know all the potential volumes of Minion War have been announced and there's no Nightbane connection.

- I'm ambivalent because I will ultimately decide for myself whether or not to use any Minion War material in my Nightbane campaign. A new rule that Nightlords take quadruple damage from Unholy Weapons forged in Dyval? No thanks. Maps of Hades which I could use if my players ever decide to make their way to Hades for some demon-vengeance? Yes please. :D

- The reason I'd like more info about Hades is because I've already alluded to it in my campaign. The reason for that is because the Nightlords/Nightbane/vampire/demon 4-way is already in the Nightbane books.

- The reason I can agree with a blanket statement about Nightbane avoiding crossovers in general is because I like the 4-way balance the way it is. I might have been even happier if it was always a 3-way between Nightlords/Nightbane/vampires, or even a 2-way, but what's done is done. However, if a BtS crossover introduced a 5th army of evil Sowki or a 6th faction of mercenary were-serpents, that would really be too much, IMO.

da Nerdbane

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Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:31 am
  

Hero

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Indeed, you have to be careful about what you add to the game and where you add it, otherwise it loses its distinctiveness.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:36 am
  

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Mike Taylor wrote:
Vidynn, Kevin DID edit the book. Whole chunks of material were removed....


Yes, but the question remains: Why does KS / PB publish a book he is not happy about? For me, it's either: Publish it and stand 100% behind it, or use your power as Publisher / Editor and cancel it, if you feel that even with additions, tweaking, editing its not good enough to be part of the Nightbane-line.

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- From the desk of Kevin Siembieda, The Rifter 12.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:40 am
  

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Vidynn wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
Vidynn, Kevin DID edit the book. Whole chunks of material were removed....


Yes, but the question remains: Why does KS / PB publish a book he is not happy about? For me, it's either: Publish it and stand 100% behind it, or use your power as Publisher / Editor and cancel it, if you feel that even with additions, tweaking, editing its not good enough to be part of the Nightbane-line.


It's just not always that simple. The most likely explanation is that KS wasn't 100% happy with it, but he wasn't 100% unhappy with it. The go/no-go decision on publishing it wasn't a no-brainer, it was a difficult go-either-way kind of thing. At the time, based on factors none of us have insight into (KS's perception of fan demand? Previously invested money that needed to get a product out the door to be recouped? Something else?) KS made the decision to send the book out the door.

Then, time went by, and as often happens, things changed. The factors that played into the decision to publish may have changed, or KS's perception of them may have changed. He ultimately wasn't happy with the decision he made. He doesn't have a time machine, so he can't go back and un-make the decision. But he can come up with a new plan, where he lets the book go out of print and moves on.

Sometimes the best decision you could possibly make at the time turns out to be the wrong decision later on. Believing that all decisions must be stuck to 100% 'til the end of time, and that changing your mind or reconsidering based on new evidence constitutes weakness and moral failure ... that's a tough pill to swallow, IMO.

da Nerdbane

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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:22 pm
  

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I wasn't all that happy with Shadows of Light myself. Like Kevin, I want more about the Nightbane, not silly angel-creatures that don't really fit CJ's setting. Nightbane already has silly angel-creatures with the Lightbringers, so more of the same wasn't needed.

That said, I purchased a copy of SoL and I stand by Kevin's decision to release it. It may have been crap, but it was the first glimmer of Nightbane in over half a decade and it gave me hope for more, better material in the future.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:02 pm
  

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Nerdbane wrote:
Then, time went by, and as often happens, things changed. The factors that played into the decision to publish may have changed, or KS's perception of them may have changed. He ultimately wasn't happy with the decision he made. He doesn't have a time machine, so he can't go back and un-make the decision. But he can come up with a new plan, where he lets the book go out of print and moves on.


Nerdbane, good post, valid arguments. I can accept that views change, that economic factors etc. change and I can certainly accept the decision, not to reprint SoL (for the time being, that is). But, I dont like putting all the blame on J. Vey, the responsible way for me would have been for KS or PB to say, okay, WE all made mistakes by publishing this book - and that, in the end, its KS' responsibility alone, what PB publishes and what not.

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- From the desk of Kevin Siembieda, The Rifter 12.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:21 pm
  

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Rocinante wrote:
I wasn't all that happy with Shadows of Light myself. Like Kevin, I want more about the Nightbane, not silly angel-creatures that don't really fit CJ's setting. Nightbane already has silly angel-creatures with the Lightbringers, so more of the same wasn't needed.


Here's the funny thing, when the Athanatos were introduced in The Rifter, they got a fairly positive response from the folks who read the article. I would also add that the Athanatos and the Lightbringers are not the same. Not by a long shot. They have vastly different powers, different goals, different perspectives on the war against the Dark. Also, despite the amount of detail Jason gave them, the Athanatos' footprint on the ongoing conflict is MUCH smaller than that of the Lightbringers.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:27 pm
  

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So then, is the material contained within still considered Canon?

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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:08 pm
  

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Vidynn wrote:
Nerdbane, good post, valid arguments. I can accept that views change, that economic factors etc. change and I can certainly accept the decision, not to reprint SoL (for the time being, that is). But, I dont like putting all the blame on J. Vey, the responsible way for me would have been for KS or PB to say, okay, WE all made mistakes by publishing this book - and that, in the end, its KS' responsibility alone, what PB publishes and what not.


Completely agree and seconded.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:58 am
  

Hero

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That's an issue that could have been clarified with more thorough editing and more collaboration between Jason and Kev during such editing. As it was, Jason was in the dark about a lot of the changes until the book went to print.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:15 am
  

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Marrowlight wrote:
So then, is the material contained within still considered Canon?


I would say, certainly, yes. It is still an official part of the Nightbane-system.

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- From the desk of Kevin Siembieda, The Rifter 12.


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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:53 am
  

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I think that the statement about not liking JV's work might not have been the most professional or wisest thing I've ever seen. If you want good writers to work for you, then you're certainly not going to attract new, promising, and creative individuals by smacking one of your former writers upside the head publicly.

I'm a member of a lot of different RPG message boards. I've been reading through all of the threads here and at other sites about the trouble that Palladium is having. One of the things that keeps coming up, valid or not, is Kevin not being professional with his writing staff. I couldn't see it at all. Everything I'd ever read seemed based on internet rumor, gossip, or personal bitterness because Kevin couldn't spend an entire hour with the poster at such-and-such con. This makes me wonder if at least some of it wasn't based on truth. That statement made about Jason was just a bad PR move, regardless of truth.

Kevin...

I love your company, your games, and I'm a fan of pretty much everything I've seen. (With some reservations about spell progression, but I digress...) However, the quality of Shadows of Light can't be the only reason it didn't sell as well as you'd have liked. I've read the book, and liked it. However, of the 5 bookstores that carry Palladium products that I've been to since the book came out, not one had anything promoting the book. It was never positioned in the new realease sections that all of those bookstores/gaming stores have. It was quietly tucked away amidst a pile of Rifts material. I saw NO marketing material anywhere. I know quite a few people who LOVE Nightbane. But they were all surprised to hear that there was even a new book out.

I know that Rifts is the big seller for Palladium, making Palladium one of the "big 3" game publishers out there. (White Wolf and Wizards of the Coast being the other two.) However, the other game lines that are out there need proper marketing and support too. Not having that is why the other games aren't as popular as they should be, IMO.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:31 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Nerdbane wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Nerdbane wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


I agree that Nightbane works best the less diluted it is. Having said that, I've already made peace with the 4-way power struggle in the Dark Day universe, between Nightbane, Nightlords, vampires, and demons (with humans either caught in the middle or taking up sides, depending on your campaign).


Uh...wait, how is this differnt. that IS the currnet power struggle as already laied out in the books :P


Sorry, guess I wasn't making the point very clearly. Try this:

- Mike said he'd like to see Nightbane stay away from crossovers, which I agree with as a blanket statement.

- Mike also said that he hopes Nightbane stays outside the Minion War, which I'm ambivalent about. This is also moot because as far as I know all the potential volumes of Minion War have been announced and there's no Nightbane connection.

- I'm ambivalent because I will ultimately decide for myself whether or not to use any Minion War material in my Nightbane campaign. A new rule that Nightlords take quadruple damage from Unholy Weapons forged in Dyval? No thanks. Maps of Hades which I could use if my players ever decide to make their way to Hades for some demon-vengeance? Yes please. :D

- The reason I'd like more info about Hades is because I've already alluded to it in my campaign. The reason for that is because the Nightlords/Nightbane/vampire/demon 4-way is already in the Nightbane books.

- The reason I can agree with a blanket statement about Nightbane avoiding crossovers in general is because I like the 4-way balance the way it is. I might have been even happier if it was always a 3-way between Nightlords/Nightbane/vampires, or even a 2-way, but what's done is done. However, if a BtS crossover introduced a 5th army of evil Sowki or a 6th faction of mercenary were-serpents, that would really be too much, IMO.

da Nerdbane


I agree.

Personally? For a pure nightbane game, I would like to keep Hades/Dyval out of it entirely

I think the Red Flame Demons are plenty of material for Nightbane all on their own.

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You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:16 am
  

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Yeah, I noticed some of the changes that were made to Shadows of Light versus the article in Rifter #16 about the Athanatos. I still don't know as to whether or not they made a good addition to Nightbane or not. They're basically Spirits of Light in human form.

I'm still scratching my head over The Minion War crossover with Nightbane, if it happens. I'm still waiting to see a Nightlord try to cross over from the Nightlands to Rifts Earth and take on The Splugorth, the vampire lords in Mexico, the NGR, the Coalition, Federation of Magic, Lord of the Deep, etc.

And I'm still waiting for an answer to this question: Is Shadows of Light offical canon or not? I am happy I have my own copy of the book.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:17 pm
  

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Puroresu wrote:
Yeah, I noticed some of the changes that were made to Shadows of Light versus the article in Rifter #16 about the Athanatos. I still don't know as to whether or not they made a good addition to Nightbane or not. They're basically Spirits of Light in human form.

I'm still scratching my head over The Minion War crossover with Nightbane, if it happens. I'm still waiting to see a Nightlord try to cross over from the Nightlands to Rifts Earth and take on The Splugorth, the vampire lords in Mexico, the NGR, the Coalition, Federation of Magic, Lord of the Deep, etc.

And I'm still waiting for an answer to this question: Is Shadows of Light offical canon or not? I am happy I have my own copy of the book.


It's a book that's out of print due to finanical concerns.

I don't think there's anyway it wouldn't be canon, barring updated material in a newer book stating that it wasn't.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:07 pm
  

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Not to fret, SoL is still canon (well... at least for the most part).

Kevin himself even said that there is a slim chance it might be reprinted one day (though it's probably more likely to be released as a PDF). He didn't detest the entire book, he just wasn't happy with how it turned out (and apparently many fans weren't either).

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:19 pm
  

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Warwolf wrote:
Not to fret, SoL is still canon (well... at least for the most part).

Kevin himself even said that there is a slim chance it might be reprinted one day (though it's probably more likely to be released as a PDF). He didn't detest the entire book, he just wasn't happy with how it turned out (and apparently many fans weren't either).


Including its author, who still posts around here.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:31 pm
  

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Only at the whims of those of us with the power to summon him... *cackles evilly*


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Unread postPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:35 am
  

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Mike Taylor wrote:
Only at the whims of those of us with the power to summon him... *cackles evilly*


Oddly enough, other folks also have the power to PM him at RPG.net

:-P


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Unread postPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:17 pm
  

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Heh, that was just my smartass way of saying that Jason only posts here if someone brings something to his attention. He's usually over at RPG.net or the Eden Studios forum.


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Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:22 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Nerdbane wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


I agree that Nightbane works best the less diluted it is. Having said that, I've already made peace with the 4-way power struggle in the Dark Day universe, between Nightbane, Nightlords, vampires, and demons (with humans either caught in the middle or taking up sides, depending on your campaign).


Uh...wait, how is this differnt. that IS the currnet power struggle as already laied out in the books :P
Why are the humans, sorcerers, guardians, athanatos and reapers being left out?

Also, I really like those tribes of the moon and those other winged angel-like peopel from Rifter 1.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:39 pm
  

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Tyciol wrote:
Why are the humans, sorcerers, guardians, athanatos and reapers being left out?

Also, I really like those tribes of the moon and those other winged angel-like peopel from Rifter 1.


Humans, sorcerers, and Guardians are still integral to the series. The Athanatos and Reapers weren't a great fit, but they still remain canon as well.

I like the basic concept behind Tribes of the Moon, but I found the execution lacking. I know there has been interest from people in a re-write of that material for book publication, but who knows? As far as the Inlustri (I believe those are the winged race of psionics from the Rifter), I didn't care much for them, and hope that they stay in the realm of Rifter material.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:15 am
  

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Tyciol wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Nerdbane wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
Personally, I'd rather see Nightbane stay outside the whole Minion Wars deal. It was pretty much conceived from the beginning to be its own standalone universe and too much crossover kind of dilutes it.


I agree that Nightbane works best the less diluted it is. Having said that, I've already made peace with the 4-way power struggle in the Dark Day universe, between Nightbane, Nightlords, vampires, and demons (with humans either caught in the middle or taking up sides, depending on your campaign).


Uh...wait, how is this differnt. that IS the currnet power struggle as already laied out in the books :P
Why are the humans, sorcerers, guardians, athanatos and reapers being left out?


Compartivly minor. it's like asking why a villiage militia on the boarder has no overall bearing on a big war.

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Unread postPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:12 pm
  

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Well Im glad I bought my copy of SoL before all this happened. Just the other day I was going to show a buddy the book and have him buy the book online, but couldnt figure out why it wasnt on the website lol....guess this makes everything make sense now

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:24 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Don't hold your breath waiting for it to be reprinted.....but if there is a NB revival then they still have it to reprint.

Umm a number of the concepts / articles were already printed in the rifter..especialy the Athanatos.. so it's not a complete "ugh" situation if you already own the requisite rifters

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:32 pm
  

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I liked the book, was a refreshing take on the Nightbane world.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:03 am
  

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Misfit KotLD wrote:
NovenTheHero wrote:
I liked the book, was a refreshing take on the Nightbane world.

There were some cool things in the book, but it felt like Sir Ector was telling the Authurian legends with Ector finding the Grail and all.


Still wasnt worth DISCONTINUING a book lol. I mean for real...

Oh and you're a siggy picture thief!

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:01 pm
  

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NovenTheHero wrote:
Still wasnt worth DISCONTINUING a book lol.


Maybe not, but I think the "less-than-stellar" sales probably had more to do with it being pulled (on top of the plethora of negative fan-feedback).

The quality of the book just didn't warrent its reprinting at the moment, especially in these lean times for Palladium. :-?

Still, if you think the book is worth bringing back, write Kev a letter. I'm sure if enough people share the same sentiment, it might inspire him to do at least a limited print run. :)

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:14 pm
  

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Warwolf wrote:
NovenTheHero wrote:
Still wasnt worth DISCONTINUING a book lol.


Maybe not, but I think the "less-than-stellar" sales probably had more to do with it being pulled (on top of the plethora of negative fan-feedback).

The quality of the book just didn't warrent its reprinting at the moment, especially in these lean times for Palladium. :-?

Still, if you think the book is worth bringing back, write Kev a letter. I'm sure if enough people share the same sentiment, it might inspire him to do at least a limited print run. :)



Hasn't stopped the SoT ;)

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:26 pm
  

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Misfit KotLD wrote:
Marrowlight wrote:
Warwolf wrote:
NovenTheHero wrote:
Still wasnt worth DISCONTINUING a book lol.


Maybe not, but I think the "less-than-stellar" sales probably had more to do with it being pulled (on top of the plethora of negative fan-feedback).

The quality of the book just didn't warrent its reprinting at the moment, especially in these lean times for Palladium. :-?

Still, if you think the book is worth bringing back, write Kev a letter. I'm sure if enough people share the same sentiment, it might inspire him to do at least a limited print run. :)



Hasn't stopped the SoT ;)

Marrowlight for the win.


:ok: :ok:

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:52 pm
  

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Marrowlight wrote:
Hasn't stopped the SoT ;)


Do you have figures on that negative feedback, or are you just running off of the limited sample of the fans on this board (and I'll have you know that there are people that do like the books... rough as they may be in places)? :|

Oh, and are any of them in their 2nd printing anyway?

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:55 pm
  

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Comment: Listen very carefully, human...the fact that I even allow you to speak directly to me is a gift I bestow upon you. You do not order me. You beg for my appreciation and then wait to see if I choose to bestow it upon you.
Actually, i was making a joke. The emote it the key there -- but since you seemed quite serious yourself earlier, if you've magically got access to figures on the negative reactions for any and all Palladium Books I'd love to see them.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:05 pm
  

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Okay, before this degenerates into a flame war I'd like to point out that Jason himself doesn't consider Shadows of Light to be his best work. When the author says he isn't pleased, that should be telling enough.


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Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:22 am
  

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Mike Taylor wrote:
Okay, before this degenerates into a flame war I'd like to point out that Jason himself doesn't consider Shadows of Light to be his best work. When the author says he isn't pleased, that should be telling enough.


I still like it =P :heart:

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Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:43 pm
  

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I didn't mind the Shadows of light book. But at this point I would buy a crappy nightbane book as long as they put it out. ANYTHING to show that they havent abandoned the game. So far Ive seen just empty words. Actions speak louder than words as far as im concerned. Even seeing a Nightbane bumper sticker would go a loooooooooong way to restoring my faith.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:14 am
  

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And now we come back to the problem with the line. It can't keep a writer. The only person who has supplied more than one book for it was CJ himself. After that, Kevin Hassall and Jason Vey each provided one book.

I'm afraid that even if there was a new book, it wouldn't generate much interest. The line has stagnated for too long.


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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:19 am
  

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Very true. I have a very difficult time seeing Nightbane ever take off even if they make new books. With as long as the line hasnt been supported. It suprises me how many Palladium fans I know who dont even know it exists. Other than myself I know no gms who even run it anymore. To be honest my players love the game but I am flat burnt out on haveing to keep hand making things to keep the game going. (Thats sad sinc making stuff up for a game is my favorite part)


Mike Taylor wrote:
And now we come back to the problem with the line. It can't keep a writer. The only person who has supplied more than one book for it was CJ himself. After that, Kevin Hassall and Jason Vey each provided one book.

I'm afraid that even if there was a new book, it wouldn't generate much interest. The line has stagnated for too long.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:10 pm
  

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Gothic_Ronin wrote:
Mike Taylor wrote:
And now we come back to the problem with the line. It can't keep a writer. The only person who has supplied more than one book for it was CJ himself. After that, Kevin Hassall and Jason Vey each provided one book.

I'm afraid that even if there was a new book, it wouldn't generate much interest. The line has stagnated for too long.

Very true. I have a very difficult time seeing Nightbane ever take off even if they make new books. With as long as the line hasnt been supported. It suprises me how many Palladium fans I know who dont even know it exists. Other than myself I know no gms who even run it anymore. To be honest my players love the game but I am flat burnt out on haveing to keep hand making things to keep the game going. (Thats sad sinc making stuff up for a game is my favorite part)


Well, hopefully Mike is wrong and there is enough "old blood" who are fans of the line to support the it as it comes back to life. There is a new book due out this year (in case you guys didn't notice), so hopefully we'll be seeing more stuff for this line in years to come (it's needed some love for a while now). :)

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