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 Post subject: HU powers to NB talents
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:16 am
  

Adventurer

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So I was talking to one of my Nightbane players and I was mentioning how I have copies of Heroes Unlimited and Villains Unlimited and how, in theory, the two games are compatible.

So my player asked if that meant that his Nightbane could have super-powers.

I replied that it's at least possible to develop new Talents that aren't in the books, and if a super-power from HU is close to what the player wants, that's as good a starting place as any.

Has anyone here ever done it that way? If so, did you develop any guidelines as far as how many permanent PPE it takes to acquire a super-power as a Talent, and how many PPE it takes to activate? Like 10 for Minor powers and 25 for Major powers, or something like that? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

da Nerdbane

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:58 am
  

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Monk

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
it depends, really.

First: Not all HU superpowers are really applicable as talents. Most are simply better off as being Morphus Traits. Remember, you can customise morphus traits as much as talents. Ex. Spd, PS, Healing factor and the like are better off being traits than talents.

For some, like Super Enegery Expulsion, I've found the easiest way is to use Darkblast rules, only change the element involved (Shadow to fire, cold, electricity, ect).

Some, even minor powers, are simply far too powerful to be converted wholely. Remember the distinctly different feel of the games. Some powers with nightbane wouldn't work so good. What use is a nightbane with Space Native? there are no nightlords in space. And if you change the campaign setting that much, I cna't help you :P

but no, there should be no set "cost" for minor or majors. I'd charge far more PPE for Warp Sound than I would for, say, Nightvision.

And also remember the key difference here: A mutant at most will have 1-2 majors and 1-3 minors. or at most, 5 powers, sometimes as few as 3.

Nightbane can have up to 35 talents. if you just convert superpowers straight over, without some heavy PPE costs, it's just plain rediculous and unbalancing.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:33 pm
  

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Palladin

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I've seen NB talents on the web that are pretty powerful and seem to resemble some HU powers, at least in terms of versatility. They often have several options like HU powers.

As for converting them, it'll have to be up to you and probably some playtesting as you see how it's used and what's done.

I saw a talent called "Shadow Wires" which is similar to Machine Merge in the back of AU/GG. I've seen "Shadow Vault" which is similar to a portable Dimensional Envelope from Rifts, or Instant Wardrobe/Weapon from PU1.

I doubt the simple division of Minor/Major will work, you'll probably need to go thru them and see which ones require a prerequisite (like a tech-morphus or something) and which ones are Elite, etc. I also wouldn't make all HU powers available, at least not until you get the kinks out.

Pick some likely candidates and test it.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:11 pm
  

Adventurer

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OK, I guess I'll play it by ear. Don't worry, I'll definitely ask my players to make a good case for converting an HU power to a Talent, and not just give them carte blanche. Thanks for the feedback, folks.

da Nerdbane

P.S. Not trying to close out this thread - if anyone else has feedback I'm always open to hearing it!

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"My feeling is that any species that can paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling and write Moby Dick and put someone on the moon does not have to settle for McDonald's toadburgers, novels by Judith Krantz, and American Idol." - Harlan Ellison, 2008


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:19 am
  

Champion

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 2794
A flat "X PPE for this category and Y PPE for that" wouldn't necessarily work, since game balance in Nightbane is a bit different from game balance in HU (ie as long as the party's all made up of Nightbanes, the Nightbane RPG actually has game balance :) ). Ideally you'd wanna go with a case by case basis using existing Nightbane Talents as a rough guide.

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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:28 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
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I don't have anything on changing hero powers to talents, but I do have this bit about changeing spells into talents.

Quote:
When a Nightbane makes a talent that is based on a spell there is some difference between how the talent will act and cost. I've run into the situation where I wanted to make a talent that was close to a spell that was on the books, and the gm had ruled that the cost to use it would of been equal to that of the spell. But this would of made a talent that was out preportion of the rest of the other talents on the lists. Has this ever happened to you? This is why I came up with this system to calculate the P.P.E. costs, both permenten to buy costs and the to use costs.

The first thing you do is find the P.P.E. cost of the spell and the level of the spell. The level of the spell is the base permanent cost of the talent. The you take the spell P.P.E. cost and that is your base to use cost for same range and duration as the spell. However, most of the time the spell give the rang and duration in feet per level or minutes per level while talents, for the most part have a set range and duration. To lessen the to use costs you can do few things, such as decress the range, decress the duration, put limitations on the usage. Increasing the permanent cost of the talent can also be raised to lower the usage costs. By raising the permanent cost by 1 point will decrease the usage cost by at least 2 but no more then 4 (GM discresion). Dropping the per level increases of range and duration each will lessen the usage cost by 20% each.

The usage costs is equal to the base usage cost of the spell being mimiced minius the modifications and limitations to be included into the talent.

activation P.P.E. = Spell P.P.E. - range modifivations - duration modifications - other limitations

The perm anent cost is equal to the Spell level and the additional desired amount of usage costs reduction.

Acquiering P.P.E. = Spell level + any additonal reduction of the activationd P.P.E.

Here is a example of how a spell such as Mute can be mimiced by a talent.
Base spell costs: mute L9 (50) 30 feet
Base talent cost with out any modifications: 9 perm , 50 tepm....5min per L...30 feet
Finished Talent
Shadow Hand of Gagging--this talent is an extention of the Bane's will, at first this talent will apper at a time of great annoyance by a person. The SHoG appers as a shadowy hand that flys out from the Bane's own hand to the sorce of annoyance and clamps onto the annoyer's mouth causing him to be unable to speak. This talent can not dose not affect the annoyer's brething in any way. So it can't be used to suffocate them. This talent can be used on mages to stop them from casting spells.
limitations--can only be used in morphius, and the Bane must be in Line of Sight of the annoyer when used, to use SHoG the Bane must make a gasping gesture at the annoyer, range 20 feet per Level. can only be dodged, and only if the annoyer has seen SHoG in use before hand.
costs--perm ppe cost--10 , cost to activate--10 per 10 min.(up front or mantained)
Note--The LOS also means that the user need to be able to see the target area...the mouth..so it has to be used in plane sight of the target.


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:17 am
  

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Intersting food for thought. Thanks, drewkitty.

da Nerdbane

_________________
"My feeling is that any species that can paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling and write Moby Dick and put someone on the moon does not have to settle for McDonald's toadburgers, novels by Judith Krantz, and American Idol." - Harlan Ellison, 2008


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 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:35 am
  

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Comment: Darkness...You Afraid?
Ive always used Talents that can "mimic" Super Powers and Magical Spells with obvius limitations.

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 Post subject: Re:
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:23 am
  

Generally I think, super abilities taken from HU or other sources used as night bane talents(should be purchased in the usual manner as well) that wouldn't have you expending temporary PPE should cost A LOT more base. Say for instance and Energy Expulsion (minor) or flight power could have a low base permanent cost and a normal PPE expenditure per blast(like a toned down shadow blast), while say super energy expulsion would have a higher(double or triple perm cost) and a varying cost per usage(or quadrouple perm cost and limited only by attacks/actions per melee, etc). Another great example would be like "manifest super-weapon" to create some indestructible construct weapon thats the personal theme of your bane(something snister or dark loking and leaking shadows or blood, etc, its a great fit as a talent) it would have a moderate perm cost(say 30-50) and a small cost to "summon" it each time you put it away and want to bring it back.

another example would be like healing factor, while the passive benefit would be there you would need to expend temp PPE to use the "instant heal" portion of it, etc.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:37 pm
  

Knight

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 2:01 am
Posts: 4268
Location: Québec
What is the Current number of Nightbane,s talents?

Do you think ther needs to be more?


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Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:39 pm
  

gaby wrote:
What is the Current number of Nightbane,s talents?

Do you think ther needs to be more?


The main problem I think nightbane players have is they are looking to others for the talents when the book first and foremost encourages the creation of your own that fit your bane! the presence of other talents is just to give some GENERIC (albeit some of them are pretty rad) idea of how a talent should be formulated.

Many other rpgs have the rules for say spell creation and in fact are so detailed but then list some generic spells AND NO ONE EVER GOES ABOUT MAKING THEIR OWN SPELLS thanks the ease/laziness of a spell list of other peoples ideas...

While its good to look to others for inspiration and guidelines its so much more fun to create a completely custom and unique bane talent for yourself(and your bane) that really "fits" it. And the book heavily encourages that, to come up with your own ideas, while we humans are very prone to exaggeration in story telling so getting the "power level" right for the cost and use is difficult its still good practice for good story telling :) Sometimes a little work in practice is good too.

Try using it at a certain cost and if it feels "this is too much like free use instead of having consequences" to you then adjust it up or down to appropriate levels it should be ok in the span of a few games if neither you or the others in your group are sure if it works quite right or even try a "fake session" if its a combat talent to test it out and see if its appropriate(is the cost right or too high but not enough damage? maybe ramp up the damage or effect but keep the cost extreme).

HU powers are a great source of inspiration as pretty much the entire palladium books community has contributed to that XD! various magic spells are good sources as well for fun effects at proper costs(but usually need to be adjust down in cost for 'bane use).

My personal opinion here is Bane Talents should be thought of (if combat oriented) as "Special Technique(kage bushin no justu!)" "Hidden/Secret Final Tecnique(iste ougi!)" "Special Attack(hadouken!)" "Finishing Move(FATALITY)" "Super Combo(shinku hadouken!)" "Called Attack(Mercury! Aqua Raphsody!)" or "Limit Break(omnislash!)"
Thematically these turn out really fun and really feel like that they heavily belong to your character only (and give a lot of I suppose video game or anime influence to the campaign). Its very very fun this way XD


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