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 Post subject: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:33 am
  

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Do we have answers to these questions:

1-Can Darkblades kill/damage Vampires? (I have always said yes but I don't know if I read that or just house ruled it)

2-In a recent game I had a player asked if he could take recovered Darkblades and melt or grind them into other things. He wanted to make shotgun shells out of them and maybe arrows. The book says that they are "nearly indestructible" but not totally. Has anyone else allowed this or is it covered in a book I haven't read.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:42 am
  

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Palladin

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1 - as far as I know yes as they are considered "magic/supernatural" weapons to some degree.

2 - Well.....depends....to tie into 1.....I do not think you can "grind down" and "magic/supernatural" weapons to do so, so I'd say no but it really is a GMs call.....I'd argue the what made it "magic/supernatural" could be lost as you are not deconstructing and effectively undoing whatever made the weapon what it was.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:01 pm
  

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1) damage, yes. darkblades are magical weapons, magical weapons damage vampires, therefore darkblades can damage vampires. kill? last i checked, only a few very specific things do that. having a weapon that can damage the vampire into unconsciousness will certainly help, but to finish the job will require more than that imo.

2) i would say that if you don't have the knowledge to make a darkblade, you don't have the knowledge to modify it in useful ways. you might be able to take smashed bits of darkblades, shove them into a potato gun or blunderbuss, and shoot it at someone, but you aren't going to be able to make it into something other than smashed up bits of darkblade. frankly, i rather suspect the nightlords make it out of something horrible, probably just using the PPE from the tormented souls of the people they consume to materialize the weapon as an ability granted by the Dark. i'm not entirely certain they can be melted or for that matter ground up (normally they just vanish when the hound/hunter dies, so i'm inclined to suspect that breaking one will get you nothing. literally. as in, it will simply vanish without a trace because it is a construction of pure magic and does not have a conventional physical existence once the mystic bonds that force it into being are removed, and you will no longer be holding anything in your hands - but i don't have any firm evidence that's what would happen, i'm just speculating).


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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:40 pm
  

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Shark_Force wrote:
1) damage, yes. darkblades are magical weapons, magical weapons damage vampires, therefore darkblades can damage vampires. kill? last i checked, only a few very specific things do that. having a weapon that can damage the vampire into unconsciousness will certainly help, but to finish the job will require more than that imo.

2) i would say that if you don't have the knowledge to make a darkblade, you don't have the knowledge to modify it in useful ways. you might be able to take smashed bits of darkblades, shove them into a potato gun or blunderbuss, and shoot it at someone, but you aren't going to be able to make it into something other than smashed up bits of darkblade. frankly, i rather suspect the nightlords make it out of something horrible, probably just using the PPE from the tormented souls of the people they consume to materialize the weapon as an ability granted by the Dark. i'm not entirely certain they can be melted or for that matter ground up (normally they just vanish when the hound/hunter dies, so i'm inclined to suspect that breaking one will get you nothing. literally. as in, it will simply vanish without a trace because it is a construction of pure magic and does not have a conventional physical existence once the mystic bonds that force it into being are removed, and you will no longer be holding anything in your hands - but i don't have any firm evidence that's what would happen, i'm just speculating).

WB 2: Nightlands, Pg. 76-78 describes the process of creating Darkblades and it does say that it feeds off the psychic energy of the people dying while making them but it lack specifics.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:24 pm
  

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Knight

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Wasn't the nature of darkblades actually expanded upon in the Heroes Unlimited Game Master Guide?


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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:11 pm
  

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First, I should explain that this is part of my use of the Nightlords in Heroes Unlimited and also in Rifts. The player in question runs a Hardware Weapons Genius. I also think he watches too much Supernatural.

He was talking about using the Darkblade metal to create bullets to damage supernatural creatures or prison cells to contain them.

jaymz wrote:
2 - Well.....depends....to tie into 1.....I do not think you can "grind down" and "magic/supernatural" weapons to do so, so I'd say no but it really is a GMs call.....I'd argue the what made it "magic/supernatural" could be lost as you are not deconstructing and effectively undoing whatever made the weapon what it was.

See I would never allow this with a rune weapon (indestructible anyway) or any weapon that requires symbols on it. You melt it down, symbols go away, the magic goes with it. The only reason that I have considered it is that the Darkblades appear, from all descriptions, to be plain.

Axelmania wrote:
Wasn't the nature of darkblades actually expanded upon in the Heroes Unlimited Game Master Guide?

Pg. 111 gives some modifications that one can make to it's ability to cut through all armor but that is all I have ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:19 pm
  

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Knight

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and something else about harming those with the intangibility power or invulnerability?... or maybe that was particle beam weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:59 pm
  

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Axelmania wrote:
and something else about harming those with the intangibility power or invulnerability?... or maybe that was particle beam weapons.


That's in the HUGMG, and AFAIK only applies to the superpower, not to other forms of invulnerability.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:30 pm
  

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HU GMG says that Darkblades do half damage to characters with Invunerability and only 1d6 damage to those with Intagibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:31 pm
  

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Nekira Sudacne wrote:
HU GMG says that Darkblades do half damage to characters with Invunerability and only 1d6 damage to those with Intagibility.

It does give some damage modifications but nothing about the nature of the weapons themselves.

Since there doesn't seem to be anything in the books has any other GM allowed players, or NPCs, to melt down these weapons and use them for other purposes?

I have to admit that It had never occurred to me to do anything like this. I used Nightlords in my rifts campaign for more than a decade, one player had a stash of over 20 Darkblade weapons, but he never asked to do anything with them so I am just wondering what people think. I could see groups like the ADA trying find ways to turn Nightlord weapons into something they could use but has anyone done it?

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:28 pm
  

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Warshield73 wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
HU GMG says that Darkblades do half damage to characters with Invunerability and only 1d6 damage to those with Intagibility.

It does give some damage modifications but nothing about the nature of the weapons themselves.

Since there doesn't seem to be anything in the books has any other GM allowed players, or NPCs, to melt down these weapons and use them for other purposes?

I have to admit that It had never occurred to me to do anything like this. I used Nightlords in my rifts campaign for more than a decade, one player had a stash of over 20 Darkblade weapons, but he never asked to do anything with them so I am just wondering what people think. I could see groups like the ADA trying find ways to turn Nightlord weapons into something they could use but has anyone done it?

For my games my ruling is that the forging process, in which the pain of victims is bonded to the blade is critical.
Thus to reforge the blades into new forms (A weapons master wanted to make a Darkblade masterwork Katana) it will need to be reworked in pain again or it looses its 'mystical temper' and simply becomes a weapon of an unearthly alloy.

Yes, I know this is house ruling the subject. But it helped to explain several of the issues. It also explained why the weapons came in certain 'stock forms' most of the time.
Most of the Nightlords "Pain-smiths" only knew certain forging techniques and thus could only make a limited number of weapons. To make unique specialized weapons took extra time by a master smith... which let my players know just by seeing, for example, that the fact that the head of the local Tong had a Darkblade butterfly knife... that someone important felt that he had earned a really special reward... and that he was probably not someone they wanted to mess around with, at least not with out a plan. (the Warlord in the group though coveted that knife and spent most of the rest of the game trying to figure out how to get his hands on it)

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:32 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
For my games my ruling is that the forging process, in which the pain of victims is bonded to the blade is critical.
Thus to reforge the blades into new forms (A weapons master wanted to make a Darkblade masterwork Katana) it will need to be reworked in pain again or it looses its 'mystical temper' and simply becomes a weapon of an unearthly alloy.

Yes, I know this is house ruling the subject. But it helped to explain several of the issues. It also explained why the weapons came in certain 'stock forms' most of the time.
Most of the Nightlords "Pain-smiths" only knew certain forging techniques and thus could only make a limited number of weapons. To make unique specialized weapons took extra time by a master smith... which let my players know just by seeing, for example, that the fact that the head of the local Tong had a Darkblade butterfly knife... that someone important felt that he had earned a really special reward... and that he was probably not someone they wanted to mess around with, at least not with out a plan. (the Warlord in the group though coveted that knife and spent most of the rest of the game trying to figure out how to get his hands on it)

Thanks for this. Like I said I had never given the construction of these weapons much thought but I always figured it was less about forging the weapon and more about the material.

Do you have the psychic pain from the construction of the weapon radiate from the weapon itself to be detected by psychic sensitives? That was my major add on to the weapon that is not in the statistics.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:25 am
  

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I wonder, if you used blood loss rules as losing 1 HP / minute per wound, and since we know vampires bleed from the heart, if you stabbed them enough times in the heart fast enough could they possibly bleed faster than they could regenerate the HP needed to close up their wounds and stop bleeding?


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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:56 am
  

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Axelmania wrote:
I wonder, if you used blood loss rules as losing 1 HP / minute per wound, and since we know vampires bleed from the heart, if you stabbed them enough times in the heart fast enough could they possibly bleed faster than they could regenerate the HP needed to close up their wounds and stop bleeding?

In a way this is what you do with vampires. You do more damage to them then they can regenerate then when they are weak you stake them.

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Ultimate Insider - World Book 32: Lemuria
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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:09 am
  

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Palladin

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Warshield73 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
For my games my ruling is that the forging process, in which the pain of victims is bonded to the blade is critical.
Thus to reforge the blades into new forms (A weapons master wanted to make a Darkblade masterwork Katana) it will need to be reworked in pain again or it looses its 'mystical temper' and simply becomes a weapon of an unearthly alloy.

Yes, I know this is house ruling the subject. But it helped to explain several of the issues. It also explained why the weapons came in certain 'stock forms' most of the time.
Most of the Nightlords "Pain-smiths" only knew certain forging techniques and thus could only make a limited number of weapons. To make unique specialized weapons took extra time by a master smith... which let my players know just by seeing, for example, that the fact that the head of the local Tong had a Darkblade butterfly knife... that someone important felt that he had earned a really special reward... and that he was probably not someone they wanted to mess around with, at least not with out a plan. (the Warlord in the group though coveted that knife and spent most of the rest of the game trying to figure out how to get his hands on it)

Thanks for this. Like I said I had never given the construction of these weapons much thought but I always figured it was less about forging the weapon and more about the material.

Do you have the psychic pain from the construction of the weapon radiate from the weapon itself to be detected by psychic sensitives? That was my major add on to the weapon that is not in the statistics.

I ruled that it was the material AND the technique.
Darksteel is made by refining a special kind of 'black iron' found in the Nightlands...
The refining process though is rather horrific in and of itself.
Once you have the raw Darksteel you can make good, even superb tools and weapons out of it..
...but if you want to get the most out of it you need a painsmith to properly forge it into a Darkblade.


I have any psychic sensitive that touches the blade could feel some of the pain that was used in its creation.
It is, to put it mildly, highly unpleasant unless your a sadist or the like and very few psychic sensitives were willing to use them (which explained why none of the Guardians in my games had Darkblades for instance)

It also had the bonus feature of making the weapons less appealing as loot. Which was good because with every Hound and Hunter being armed with one it wasn't hard for PCs to get their hands on stockpiles of them...
...which some were willing to use, and some were not. It was an ethical choice each person had to make on if they were willing to use something forged via the torture and murder of innocents.
Some would
Some would not.
Some said it was their duty to use the weapons for good so that torture suffered by the victims was not in vain.
Some said that by using the weapons they condoned the creation.
There was no right answer and no wrong answer.
But then I run my Nightbane games as Dark, Low Contrast horror. Psychological dilemmas, moral choices, descents into anti-heroics, the ends justifying the means, and finding out what is meant about those warnings about 'those who fight monsters' and 'those who stare into the abyss'
My Nightbane games are not funny looking Superheroes in a dark world.

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The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:50 am
  

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Hero

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eliakon wrote:
But then I run my Nightbane games as Dark, Low Contrast horror. Psychological dilemmas, moral choices, descents into anti-heroics, the ends justifying the means, and finding out what is meant about those warnings about 'those who fight monsters' and 'those who stare into the abyss'
My Nightbane games are not funny looking Superheroes in a dark world.

Nice... sounds like my kind of game.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkblade Weapons
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:12 pm
  

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I have said this in a few posts but just to clarify I have never run a Nightbane game. I love the books, I read the first 5 books including Shadows of Light cover to cover, but I have never had a desire to run a straight Nightbane game. I also have never had enough player interest for one.

Most of what I have used Nightbane for has been the occasional Heroes convention game and a lot in Rifts.

eliakon wrote:
I ruled that it was the material AND the technique.
Darksteel is made by refining a special kind of 'black iron' found in the Nightlands...
The refining process though is rather horrific in and of itself.
Once you have the raw Darksteel you can make good, even superb tools and weapons out of it..
...but if you want to get the most out of it you need a painsmith to properly forge it into a Darkblade.


I have any psychic sensitive that touches the blade could feel some of the pain that was used in its creation.
It is, to put it mildly, highly unpleasant unless your a sadist or the like and very few psychic sensitives were willing to use them (which explained why none of the Guardians in my games had Darkblades for instance)

It also had the bonus feature of making the weapons less appealing as loot. Which was good because with every Hound and Hunter being armed with one it wasn't hard for PCs to get their hands on stockpiles of them...
...which some were willing to use, and some were not. It was an ethical choice each person had to make on if they were willing to use something forged via the torture and murder of innocents.
Some would
Some would not.
Some said it was their duty to use the weapons for good so that torture suffered by the victims was not in vain.
Some said that by using the weapons they condoned the creation.
There was no right answer and no wrong answer.
But then I run my Nightbane games as Dark, Low Contrast horror. Psychological dilemmas, moral choices, descents into anti-heroics, the ends justifying the means, and finding out what is meant about those warnings about 'those who fight monsters' and 'those who stare into the abyss'
My Nightbane games are not funny looking Superheroes in a dark world.

Like I said in a previous post the big thing I added to Dark Blades was the radiating of psychic pain. In Heroes I not only have psychic characters able to feel the pain but any character of good alignment actually feels a sense of unease when next to or holding one. In all the Heroes con games I have run in the last few years this was the first year a character even asked about picking up a Darkblade.

In Rifts my players encountered the Nightlords for over a decade collecting almost a hundred Darkblades. All they ever did was keep them in a vault, along with a few evil rune weapons, and tried to destroy them.

After the player request last month I was just wondering if anyone did it any differently.

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Ultimate Insider - World Book 32: Lemuria
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