Anti-Magic v. Nightbane

[Nekira Sudacne]

Regarding absolute range, did we ever get a range cap for Darkblast or the Guardian's light blast?

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

I have no idea what a constellation has to do with anything I said?

It has a star that's the farthest humans can see with the naked eye. So since V762 is visible, it's in the LOS, which makes a Guardian's light blast have a range of roughly 16,308 light years.

Maybe. are you willing to wait 16,308 years for it to hit?

[Nightmask]

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

I have no idea what a constellation has to do with anything I said?

It has a star that's the farthest humans can see with the naked eye. So since V762 is visible, it's in the LOS, which makes a Guardian's light blast have a range of roughly 16,308 light years.

Maybe. are you willing to wait 16,308 years for it to hit?

It'd miss, since you're shooting where it was 16,308 years ago and not where it is now.

[Zer0 Kay]

I assume you mean "Shadowblast", And the Range limit is right there in the talent itself, 500'.

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

I have no idea what a constellation has to do with anything I said?

It has a star that's the farthest humans can see with the naked eye. So since V762 is visible, it's in the LOS, which makes a Guardian's light blast have a range of roughly 16,308 light years.

Maybe. are you willing to wait 16,308 years for it to hit?

Fits right in with the silly argument, "I can dodge the laser as it's coming at me from long distance because I can see the beam." Uh, do they not realize that means the beam is already there?

[Niji]

I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

One of the first abilities nightbane have are "immune to transformation effects" they can't be forced to transform, detransform or change shape (except by nightbane talents and a certain ability, and even then that is limited to forcing the facade to become the morphus, and they get a rather hefty saving throw).

As for negating talents, that is prety vague, you can dispell the set in motion effects of spell like talents (a talent that copies a magical enchantment or marks an object might be dispellable by a non-bane power), hence why some listed takents have saves and what not. I vaguly recall a rifter or other unnoficialish source having a character or class/power that specifically negates supernatural (magical) abilities.

But in general nightbane powers are "innate" (think why negate super abilities does not negate aliens who have suoer power genetically. Anti-magic cloud doesn't bother dragons, etc.) and the morphus and its abilities are the true form.

At best you could rule that such spells "force the bane out of the cloud" and prevent it from entering if it fails its save. Dispels only removing lasting effects (that offer a save vs magic) that the nightbane does nit have to concentrate or spend ppe to maintain.

I am pretty sure you can shield yourself from some kinds of nightbane magical talents and nightlord abilities if you are venturing into rifts and palladium fantasy with these characters. But that would just amount to "no effect" on the shielded object/character.


Incidently the ability that forces bane and other creatures to show their true form is a nightbane talent I believe. They ARE supposed to be conditionally strong after all.

I don't have my books on me so i cant give you the actual page number, but the start of the nightbane section up through the talents mentions most of this in a few words here and there.

[Niji]

So Cassiopeia then?

I have no idea what a constellation has to do with anything I said?

It has a star that's the farthest humans can see with the naked eye. So since V762 is visible, it's in the LOS, which makes a Guardian's light blast have a range of roughly 16,308 light years.

Maybe. are you willing to wait 16,308 years for it to hit?

It'd miss, since you're shooting where it was 16,308 years ago and not where it is now.

Anyone worth their salt in targeting/archery knows to shoot where the target is GOING TK MOVE TO not where they are. Shooting something where it is is like a 99.9% miss chance (because everything is moving at extremely high speeds through the universe), that .1% is if the target intentionally or accidently moved back to where you were shooting (like the reverse of anticipation when you open the car door at the same moment it unkocks, and so it doesn't unlock lol).


Mnnn line of sight lol. Scary though a blast you fire and misses might hit something important 16,308 years later.

[Zer0 Kay]

I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

One of the first abilities nightbane have are "immune to transformation effects" they can't be forced to transform, detransform or change shape (except by nightbane talents and a certain ability, and even then that is limited to forcing the facade to become the morphus, and they get a rather hefty saving throw).

As for negating talents, that is prety vague, you can dispell the set in motion effects of spell like talents (a talent that copies a magical enchantment or marks an object might be dispellable by a non-bane power), hence why some listed takents have saves and what not. I vaguly recall a rifter or other unnoficialish source having a character or class/power that specifically negates supernatural (magical) abilities.

But in general nightbane powers are "innate" (think why negate super abilities does not negate aliens who have suoer power genetically. Anti-magic cloud doesn't bother dragons, etc.) and the morphus and its abilities are the true form.

At best you could rule that such spells "force the bane out of the cloud" and prevent it from entering if it fails its save. Dispels only removing lasting effects (that offer a save vs magic) that the nightbane does nit have to concentrate or spend ppe to maintain.

I am pretty sure you can shield yourself from some kinds of nightbane magical talents and nightlord abilities if you are venturing into rifts and palladium fantasy with these characters. But that would just amount to "no effect" on the shielded object/character.


Incidently the ability that forces bane and other creatures to show their true form is a nightbane talent I believe. They ARE supposed to be conditionally strong after all.

I don't have my books on me so i cant give you the actual page number, but the start of the nightbane section up through the talents mentions most of this in a few words here and there.

good point about the dragons since on multiple occasions they are referred to as the embodiment of magic. So if anti magic cloud worked on Nightspawn, which it doesn't, it would make dragons just disappear (and not by making them invisible).

[Zer0 Kay]

I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

One of the first abilities nightbane have are "immune to transformation effects" they can't be forced to transform, detransform or change shape (except by nightbane talents and a certain ability, and even then that is limited to forcing the facade to become the morphus, and they get a rather hefty saving throw).

As for negating talents, that is prety vague, you can dispell the set in motion effects of spell like talents (a talent that copies a magical enchantment or marks an object might be dispellable by a non-bane power), hence why some listed takents have saves and what not. I vaguly recall a rifter or other unnoficialish source having a character or class/power that specifically negates supernatural (magical) abilities.

But in general nightbane powers are "innate" (think why negate super abilities does not negate aliens who have suoer power genetically. Anti-magic cloud doesn't bother dragons, etc.) and the morphus and its abilities are the true form.

At best you could rule that such spells "force the bane out of the cloud" and prevent it from entering if it fails its save. Dispels only removing lasting effects (that offer a save vs magic) that the nightbane does nit have to concentrate or spend ppe to maintain.

I am pretty sure you can shield yourself from some kinds of nightbane magical talents and nightlord abilities if you are venturing into rifts and palladium fantasy with these characters. But that would just amount to "no effect" on the shielded object/character.


Incidently the ability that forces bane and other creatures to show their true form is a nightbane talent I believe. They ARE supposed to be conditionally strong after all.

I don't have my books on me so i cant give you the actual page number, but the start of the nightbane section up through the talents mentions most of this in a few words here and there.

If they weren't strong the game would be called Nightlords or Hounds or TOHMS (Tons Of Human Meat Shields). If we do that then we should cap all the other creatures a game is named after.
TMNT (if it were still licensed) no extra SDC for shells and they shouldn't be able to have the best martial arts on top of that.
Splicers should be about the machine not the use of bio engineering tech so all the bio gear should have no built in weapons systems.
Macross, come on a ship with a beam gun that annihilates everything in its path, that is ridiculous. We got to nerf that 300 yards and down to one MDC, it'd be like a tech death strike from the old system.

Hey, here is a question. If you don't like the Nightspawn why are you GMing the game?

[say652]

Stand by the 2 or better in most cases or be reduced in power for 1D6 melees.

And I like the dragons losing invisibility and metamorphosis in AntiMagic Clouds and Negate magic.

Now if only anti psionic things existed.....

[Zer0 Kay]

Stand by the 2 or better in most cases or be reduced in power for 1D6 melees.

And I like the dragons losing invisibility and metamorphosis in AntiMagic Clouds and Negate magic.

Now if only anti psionic things existed.....

Nope dragons go poof, gone, because they ARE magic. Poof.

As your house rule you can stand by it all you want and use it too. It just isn't canon though.

So what would happen to your dragons then turn into humans? Just wondering since the Nightspawn's natural form is the Morphus.

[say652]

All are returned to their natural form.

[Zer0 Kay]

All are returned to their natural form.

So dragons to dragons and Nightspawn to morphus. If human is their natural form, they'd be called humans. They aren't.

[say652]

True.

ShaaMan. Mystic Bestowed. Becomes human.

Greg the Nightspawn becomes Morphus.

Leslie the Chang Ku becomes a dragon.

[Tor]

Guardians light blast power have no stated range limit. I can only assume it's "Line of Sight" by default.

So Cassiopeia then?

Maybe this explains why Moloch hasn't simply used satellites or high-altitude bombers to nuke everyone? Guardians shot everything down?

If you don't use the "nightlord barrier destroys all incoming tech" rule this could also explain why Mechanoids/UWW would give the place a wide berth if they ever learn of it. I can't remember numerical estimates of Guardians in the books, but all of them firing into orbit with all their PPE simultaneously could cause some headaches.

We know that Modeus knows of the place, yet it doesn't seem like his Death Knights are swarming it. Perhaps he tried it and Guardians swatted the things from extreme ranges?

[TechnoGothic]

PPE = Magic

Magic takes many forms.
• Spells
• Tattoos
• Talents
Three different forms of Magic fueled by expenditure of PPE itself. Making them Magic.

[Niji]

Stand by the 2 or better in most cases or be reduced in power for 1D6 melees.

And I like the dragons losing invisibility and metamorphosis in AntiMagic Clouds and Negate magic.

Now if only anti psionic things existed.....

There is the Nega Psychic that appeared in that one book (or was it a rifter?). But thats a whole character class needed to negate psychic abilities and its not as encompasing as say anti-magic cloud.

Now what isn't clear is if Anti-Magic cloud or counterspells work on spell magic type nightbane talents or not (it does supposedly prevent mystically bestowed from casting spell magic if they make their save to stay transformed anyway).

Magic is pretty ambigious, i mean there is beings made of magic and since all living things have PPE as well you could argue its just the background life energy field, and all anti-magic cloud does is the equivilent of coppershielding on electronics vs emp

[Zer0 Kay]

Stand by the 2 or better in most cases or be reduced in power for 1D6 melees.

And I like the dragons losing invisibility and metamorphosis in AntiMagic Clouds and Negate magic.

Now if only anti psionic things existed.....

There is the Nega Psychic that appeared in that one book (or was it a rifter?). But thats a whole character class needed to negate psychic abilities and its not as encompasing as say anti-magic cloud.

Now what isn't clear is if Anti-Magic cloud or counterspells work on spell magic type nightbane talents or not (it does supposedly prevent mystically bestowed from casting spell magic if they make their save to stay transformed anyway).

Magic is pretty ambigious, i mean there is beings made of magic and since all living things have PPE as well you could argue its just the background life energy field, and all anti-magic cloud does is the equivilent of coppershielding on electronics vs emp

What the heck is copper shielding? Do you mean tempest shielding or hardened circuits? Either way they bleed EMPs to ground or to a bank of caps or other devices to reduce the pulse to a manageable level.

[Zer0 Kay]

True.

ShaaMan. Mystic Bestowed. Becomes human.

Greg the Nightspawn becomes Morphus.

Leslie the Chang Ku becomes a dragon.

To quote Lambert's Raiden... "Exactly."

[Tor]

PPE = Magic

Magic takes many forms.
• Spells
• Tattoos
• Talents
Three different forms of Magic fueled by expenditure of PPE itself. Making them Magic.

The majority of magic being fueled by PPE does not mean that anything fueled by PPE is magic.

[Niji]

Stand by the 2 or better in most cases or be reduced in power for 1D6 melees.

And I like the dragons losing invisibility and metamorphosis in AntiMagic Clouds and Negate magic.

Now if only anti psionic things existed.....

There is the Nega Psychic that appeared in that one book (or was it a rifter?). But thats a whole character class needed to negate psychic abilities and its not as encompasing as say anti-magic cloud.

Now what isn't clear is if Anti-Magic cloud or counterspells work on spell magic type nightbane talents or not (it does supposedly prevent mystically bestowed from casting spell magic if they make their save to stay transformed anyway).

Magic is pretty ambigious, i mean there is beings made of magic and since all living things have PPE as well you could argue its just the background life energy field, and all anti-magic cloud does is the equivilent of coppershielding on electronics vs emp

What the heck is copper shielding? Do you mean tempest shielding or hardened circuits? Either way they bleed EMPs to ground or to a bank of caps or other devices to reduce the pulse to a manageable level.

Leftout *reverse equivilent sorry

[Zer0 Kay]

There is the Nega Psychic that appeared in that one book (or was it a rifter?). But thats a whole character class needed to negate psychic abilities and its not as encompasing as say anti-magic cloud.

Now what isn't clear is if Anti-Magic cloud or counterspells work on spell magic type nightbane talents or not (it does supposedly prevent mystically bestowed from casting spell magic if they make their save to stay transformed anyway).

Magic is pretty ambigious, i mean there is beings made of magic and since all living things have PPE as well you could argue its just the background life energy field, and all anti-magic cloud does is the equivilent of coppershielding on electronics vs emp

What the heck is copper shielding? Do you mean tempest shielding or hardened circuits? Either way they bleed EMPs to ground or to a bank of caps or other devices to reduce the pulse to a manageable level.

Leftout *reverse equivilent sorry

Got the quoting messed up. I only said the stuff in blue on that last one.

Reverse equivalent of what?

[The Beast]

I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

Missed this earlier. I'd like to point out Negate Magic specifies it doesn't work on Nightbane talents.

[Zer0 Kay]

I if I was Gming the game, I would houserule that Negate Magic or Anti Magic cloud would forcibly transform them back to human/normal form.
Save vs magic +4 and forced transformations last for 1D6 melees.

Missed this earlier. I'd like to point out Negate Magic specifies it doesn't work on Nightbane talents.

Not to me too IIRC Nightspawn are immune to transformation magic or anything that would cause/force a transformation.

[Tor]

Except for the talent which forces you to transform into your Morphus from your Facade

[Zer0 Kay]

Except for the talent which forces you to transform into your Morphus from your Facade

Which specifically mentions that it does it... So yeah.