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 Post subject: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:42 pm
  

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Monk

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What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:19 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Zer0 Kay wrote:
What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

To the first that depends on the Game Masters view. In some games I don't allow the process to be started. In others I have had them do a mirror walk...and come out where they started. In others I just have them start and then snap back where they began. It depends on the tone and world (i.e. it has not really been set forth in canon AFAIK)
As for the second....that's a GM call. I believe it mentions that most large immobile mirrors have analogues...but not all.

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The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:55 pm
  

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eliakon wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

To the first that depends on the Game Masters view. In some games I don't allow the process to be started. In others I have had them do a mirror walk...and come out where they started. In others I just have them start and then snap back where they began. It depends on the tone and world (i.e. it has not really been set forth in canon AFAIK)
As for the second....that's a GM call. I believe it mentions that most large immobile mirrors have analogues...but not all.

I was thinking for the first there could be a random table and a 00 is stuck in mirror pocket dimension. Like they're between the glass and a now rough and non reflective silver backing. The dimension is full of mist and just happens to be the size of the building the mirror was in. All other non connected mirrors in the building, now windows, can be seen through but you can't be seen. You can only be seen through the mirror you got stuck in. To escape you must have your hand against the window and someone capable of mirror walking can mirror walk and grab your hand and pull you back through.

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:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:11 pm
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Zer0 Kay wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

To the first that depends on the Game Masters view. In some games I don't allow the process to be started. In others I have had them do a mirror walk...and come out where they started. In others I just have them start and then snap back where they began. It depends on the tone and world (i.e. it has not really been set forth in canon AFAIK)
As for the second....that's a GM call. I believe it mentions that most large immobile mirrors have analogues...but not all.

I was thinking for the first there could be a random table and a 00 is stuck in mirror pocket dimension. Like they're between the glass and a now rough and non reflective silver backing. The dimension is full of mist and just happens to be the size of the building the mirror was in. All other non connected mirrors in the building, now windows, can be seen through but you can't be seen. You can only be seen through the mirror you got stuck in. To escape you must have your hand against the window and someone capable of mirror walking can mirror walk and grab your hand and pull you back through.

There is a table in the book Through the Glass Darkly in the Mirror Magic section that covers what happens to someone who is inhabiting a mirror that is broken that may be adaptable for this. (the entire Mirror Magic section in fact may be helpful)

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The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:52 pm
  

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Monk

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eliakon wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

To the first that depends on the Game Masters view. In some games I don't allow the process to be started. In others I have had them do a mirror walk...and come out where they started. In others I just have them start and then snap back where they began. It depends on the tone and world (i.e. it has not really been set forth in canon AFAIK)
As for the second....that's a GM call. I believe it mentions that most large immobile mirrors have analogues...but not all.

I was thinking for the first there could be a random table and a 00 is stuck in mirror pocket dimension. Like they're between the glass and a now rough and non reflective silver backing. The dimension is full of mist and just happens to be the size of the building the mirror was in. All other non connected mirrors in the building, now windows, can be seen through but you can't be seen. You can only be seen through the mirror you got stuck in. To escape you must have your hand against the window and someone capable of mirror walking can mirror walk and grab your hand and pull you back through.

There is a table in the book Through the Glass Darkly in the Mirror Magic section that covers what happens to someone who is inhabiting a mirror that is broken that may be adaptable for this. (the entire Mirror Magic section in fact may be helpful)


I'll have to look through that again.

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:20 am
  

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Palladin

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Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
I do like the idea of something bad happening if you try to walk through something with no 'other end'. Encourages the use of 'mirror sight' and similar to verify the safety of a place.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:30 pm
  

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I'd go the comedic route of PC headbutts glass takes 1d6 sdc lol.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:47 pm
  

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Malcontent-Khyron wrote:
I'd go the comedic route of PC headbutts glass takes 1d6 sdc lol.


every time? How boring.

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:26 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Zer0 Kay wrote:
What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

After looking through all the Nightbane books (Main Book, Between the Shadows, Nightlands, Through the Glass Darkly, Shadows of Light, Nightbane Survival Guide), I found some information which I believe addresses the original post. I hope this proves helpful. Out of all the books, only the Main Book, Nightlands, and Through the Glass Darkly had anything of note to excerpt.

Nightbane Main Book
    On page 87 of the Nightbane main book, their ability #4 to Mirrorwalk has this to say regarding mirrors:
      Quote:
      To perform this ability, a mirror of any size, even a small hand mirror, will do, but the mirror must have a counterpart in the Nightlands. Typically, mirrors built into homes and buildings will have a counterpart in the alien dimension. Mirrors on vehicles rarely do because there are no cars in the Nightlands.
    On page 109, the power of "Mirrorsight" offers a little more information:
      Quote:
      This Talent enables the Nightbane to see the other side of a mirror, into the Nightlands, and vice versa, as if it were a window. A mirror or any highly reflective surface (glass, polished metal, a quiet body of water) must be available. The character can only see what the mirror image faces in the Nightlands, and vice versa.
    Page 155 of the main book offers this quick little bit of flavor:
      Quote:
      There is an entire world on the other side of every mirror; a nightmarish reflection of our reality.
    Then page 157 offers this description:
      Quote:
      Nightbane need neither magic nor accidents to reach the Nightlands. They can cross into the twilight world simply by stepping through a mirror! As the Nightbane concentrates, the surface of the mirror turns into a reflective black, then opens up into a vista on the "other side," the part of the Nightlands that corresponds to the mirror position on Earth. Then the Nightbane turns into black light and pours himself through the mirror, no matter how small.

Book 2: Nightlands
    Looking through the Nightlands book, there's some additional interesting mirror and mirror walking info - starting on page 13:
      Quote:
      Using this ability is very safe. Nightbanes cannot Mirror Walk themselves into a solid object on the other side, or appear a mile (1.6 km) up in the air. Whenever the power is used, the character will appear within a hundred feet of the nearest body of land or water.
    Page 91, in discussion of the (literally) underground location known as the Warcamp, has this to say about using a lake as a portal:
      Quote:
      There are only two ways to reach the Warcamp from Earth. One is to swim in Lake Michigan and use the Mirror Walk Nightbane ability (fortunately, as long as the Nightbane is within 100 feet/30.5 m of his destination, he will arrive in one of the buried chambers).
    In the biography of the Nightbane known as "Death Harley" on page 124, one finds this note regarding windows:
      Quote:
      After traveling hundreds of miles, he came to a dead end, lost control of himself and rushed headlong into a plate glass window. In sheer panic, he wished to be - elsewhere. The desire unconsciously triggered the Mirror Walk power, and Harvey vanished into the reflective surface of the window to reappear in the Nightlands

Book 3: Through the Glass Darkly
    The book Through the Glass Darkly didn't have as much info as I thought it would have in this regard, especially considering the O.C.C. "Mirrormage," their unique brand of Mirror Magic, and a description of the Mirrorwall itself are all present in that book. Still, I did find one bit of information I thought worth noting, if only because it collaborates with other information. Here, on page 104 in the description of the Lady of the Lake, is more proof that a body of water can be mirrorwalked:
      Quote:
      Her home lies beyond the Mirrorwall (the reflective surface of her pool, somewhere in Britain or France, allows her to step through here on fine days)

Based on all this information I'd say that if a Nightbane or other being tries to mirrorwalk through a mirror with no Nightlands counterpart, then nothing happens. They focus on the mirror but it never "opens" up to reveal what's on the "other side."

As far as determining if there is a corresponding mirror in the Nightlands, it seems to be entirely in the G.M.'s hands. As a thumbrule/guide, the books seem to suggest that mirrors (or reflective surfaces in general) will have a counterpart if such a location or type of mirror makes sense to exist in the Nightlands.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:53 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Posts: 12949
Location: Snoqualmie, WA
Glistam wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
What happens if mirror walk is attempted on a mirror with no duplicate? How do you determine if one has a duplicate or not?

After looking through all the Nightbane books (Main Book, Between the Shadows, Nightlands, Through the Glass Darkly, Shadows of Light, Nightbane Survival Guide), I found some information which I believe addresses the original post. I hope this proves helpful. Out of all the books, only the Main Book, Nightlands, and Through the Glass Darkly had anything of note to excerpt.

Nightbane Main Book
    On page 87 of the Nightbane main book, their ability #4 to Mirrorwalk has this to say regarding mirrors:
      Quote:
      To perform this ability, a mirror of any size, even a small hand mirror, will do, but the mirror must have a counterpart in the Nightlands. Typically, mirrors built into homes and buildings will have a counterpart in the alien dimension. Mirrors on vehicles rarely do because there are no cars in the Nightlands.
    On page 109, the power of "Mirrorsight" offers a little more information:
      Quote:
      This Talent enables the Nightbane to see the other side of a mirror, into the Nightlands, and vice versa, as if it were a window. A mirror or any highly reflective surface (glass, polished metal, a quiet body of water) must be available. The character can only see what the mirror image faces in the Nightlands, and vice versa.
    Page 155 of the main book offers this quick little bit of flavor:
      Quote:
      There is an entire world on the other side of every mirror; a nightmarish reflection of our reality.
    Then page 157 offers this description:
      Quote:
      Nightbane need neither magic nor accidents to reach the Nightlands. They can cross into the twilight world simply by stepping through a mirror! As the Nightbane concentrates, the surface of the mirror turns into a reflective black, then opens up into a vista on the "other side," the part of the Nightlands that corresponds to the mirror position on Earth. Then the Nightbane turns into black light and pours himself through the mirror, no matter how small.

Book 2: Nightlands
    Looking through the Nightlands book, there's some additional interesting mirror and mirror walking info - starting on page 13:
      Quote:
      Using this ability is very safe. Nightbanes cannot Mirror Walk themselves into a solid object on the other side, or appear a mile (1.6 km) up in the air. Whenever the power is used, the character will appear within a hundred feet of the nearest body of land or water.
    Page 91, in discussion of the (literally) underground location known as the Warcamp, has this to say about using a lake as a portal:
      Quote:
      There are only two ways to reach the Warcamp from Earth. One is to swim in Lake Michigan and use the Mirror Walk Nightbane ability (fortunately, as long as the Nightbane is within 100 feet/30.5 m of his destination, he will arrive in one of the buried chambers).
    In the biography of the Nightbane known as "Death Harley" on page 124, one finds this note regarding windows:
      Quote:
      After traveling hundreds of miles, he came to a dead end, lost control of himself and rushed headlong into a plate glass window. In sheer panic, he wished to be - elsewhere. The desire unconsciously triggered the Mirror Walk power, and Harvey vanished into the reflective surface of the window to reappear in the Nightlands

Book 3: Through the Glass Darkly
    The book Through the Glass Darkly didn't have as much info as I thought it would have in this regard, especially considering the O.C.C. "Mirrormage," their unique brand of Mirror Magic, and a description of the Mirrorwall itself are all present in that book. Still, I did find one bit of information I thought worth noting, if only because it collaborates with other information. Here, on page 104 in the description of the Lady of the Lake, is more proof that a body of water can be mirrorwalked:
      Quote:
      Her home lies beyond the Mirrorwall (the reflective surface of her pool, somewhere in Britain or France, allows her to step through here on fine days)

Based on all this information I'd say that if a Nightbane or other being tries to mirrorwalk through a mirror with no Nightlands counterpart, then nothing happens. They focus on the mirror but it never "opens" up to reveal what's on the "other side."

As far as determining if there is a corresponding mirror in the Nightlands, it seems to be entirely in the G.M.'s hands. As a thumbrule/guide, the books seem to suggest that mirrors (or reflective surfaces in general) will have a counterpart if such a location or type of mirror makes sense to exist in the Nightlands.


Thank you, again a beautifully laid out post, chock full of information.

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:53 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
So, this is actually quite a scary thought for the world of Nightbane, especially considering how many Nightlord minions can mirrorwalk. It seems that most mirrors, or reflective surfaces, or even still pools of water have counterparts in the Nightlands, and thus can be used to mirrorwalk! The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

Windows, even, can be portals into and out of the Nightlands. Anything that can and does cast a reflection. The paranoia this could cause would be intense.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:12 pm
  

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Monk

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Glistam wrote:
So, this is actually quite a scary thought for the world of Nightbane, especially considering how many Nightlord minions can mirrorwalk. It seems that most mirrors, or reflective surfaces, or even still pools of water have counterparts in the Nightlands, and thus can be used to mirrorwalk! The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

Windows, even, can be portals into and out of the Nightlands. Anything that can and does cast a reflection. The paranoia this could cause would be intense.


frosted windows anyone?

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:04 am
  

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Comment: I am the Alpha of the Omega...
...The First of The Last...
...and this is the beginning of your end.
Funny, I just gave an answer of sorts in the Dark Designs manuscript. My opinion is that Nightbane can tell simply by looking at a mirror whether or not it links with the Nightlands. If a Nightbane tries to Mirrorwalk through one without a counterpart nothing happens. Dimensional magic is necessary to reach the Mirrorwall itself.

Glistam wrote:
So, this is actually quite a scary thought for the world of Nightbane, especially considering how many Nightlord minions can mirrorwalk. It seems that most mirrors, or reflective surfaces, or even still pools of water have counterparts in the Nightlands, and thus can be used to mirrorwalk! The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

Windows, even, can be portals into and out of the Nightlands. Anything that can and does cast a reflection. The paranoia this could cause would be intense.


Yep. Had a Spook Squad character in my first campaign that would remove or break any mirror present anywhere he'd sleep. Of course, that was after waking up on Dark Day to a Hound coming through his bathroom mirror. Can't say I blame him...

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:42 pm
  

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Monk

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Warwolf wrote:
Funny, I just gave an answer of sorts in the Dark Designs manuscript. My opinion is that Nightbane can tell simply by looking at a mirror whether or not it links with the Nightlands. If a Nightbane tries to Mirrorwalk through one without a counterpart nothing happens. Dimensional magic is necessary to reach the Mirrorwall itself.

Glistam wrote:
So, this is actually quite a scary thought for the world of Nightbane, especially considering how many Nightlord minions can mirrorwalk. It seems that most mirrors, or reflective surfaces, or even still pools of water have counterparts in the Nightlands, and thus can be used to mirrorwalk! The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

Windows, even, can be portals into and out of the Nightlands. Anything that can and does cast a reflection. The paranoia this could cause would be intense.


Yep. Had a Spook Squad character in my first campaign that would remove or break any mirror present anywhere he'd sleep. Of course, that was after waking up on Dark Day to a Hound coming through his bathroom mirror. Can't say I blame him...

Breaking us no good, then there are hundreds of reflections. Must paint or otherwise make non-reflective. Maybe suspend all mirrors face down over a rock grinder in a dark room.

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech

Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus

The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:00 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Warwolf wrote:
Funny, I just gave an answer of sorts in the Dark Designs manuscript. My opinion is that Nightbane can tell simply by looking at a mirror whether or not it links with the Nightlands. If a Nightbane tries to Mirrorwalk through one without a counterpart nothing happens. Dimensional magic is necessary to reach the Mirrorwall itself.

Glistam wrote:
So, this is actually quite a scary thought for the world of Nightbane, especially considering how many Nightlord minions can mirrorwalk. It seems that most mirrors, or reflective surfaces, or even still pools of water have counterparts in the Nightlands, and thus can be used to mirrorwalk! The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

Windows, even, can be portals into and out of the Nightlands. Anything that can and does cast a reflection. The paranoia this could cause would be intense.

Yep. Had a Spook Squad character in my first campaign that would remove or break any mirror present anywhere he'd sleep. Of course, that was after waking up on Dark Day to a Hound coming through his bathroom mirror. Can't say I blame him...

Breaking us no good, then there are hundreds of reflections. Must paint or otherwise make non-reflective. Maybe suspend all mirrors face down over a rock grinder in a dark room.

I don't know about that. Once the mirror is broken it becomes a bunch of tiny mirrors, and they would no longer have a direct Nightlands counterpart. I think breaking it would work to break the mirrorwall link between Nightlands mirror and Earth mirror.

_________________
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kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:28 pm
  

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Monk

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Posts: 12949
Location: Snoqualmie, WA
Glistam wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Warwolf wrote:
Funny, I just gave an answer of sorts in the Dark Designs manuscript. My opinion is that Nightbane can tell simply by looking at a mirror whether or not it links with the Nightlands. If a Nightbane tries to Mirrorwalk through one without a counterpart nothing happens. Dimensional magic is necessary to reach the Mirrorwall itself.

Glistam wrote:
So, this is actually quite a scary thought for the world of Nightbane, especially considering how many Nightlord minions can mirrorwalk. It seems that most mirrors, or reflective surfaces, or even still pools of water have counterparts in the Nightlands, and thus can be used to mirrorwalk! The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

Windows, even, can be portals into and out of the Nightlands. Anything that can and does cast a reflection. The paranoia this could cause would be intense.

Yep. Had a Spook Squad character in my first campaign that would remove or break any mirror present anywhere he'd sleep. Of course, that was after waking up on Dark Day to a Hound coming through his bathroom mirror. Can't say I blame him...

Breaking us no good, then there are hundreds of reflections. Must paint or otherwise make non-reflective. Maybe suspend all mirrors face down over a rock grinder in a dark room.

I don't know about that. Once the mirror is broken it becomes a bunch of tiny mirrors, and they would no longer have a direct Nightlands counterpart. I think breaking it would work to break the mirrorwall link between Nightlands mirror and Earth mirror.


If something that simple would work so would covering it with a cloth or otherwise making the reflective surface not visible, as opposed to no longer reflecting, or changing the orientation. Maybe the nightlands mirror also shatters.

_________________
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper

BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:21 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
That last bit, yes. I like that. But only that.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:29 am
  

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Glistam wrote:
The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

This is reminding me a lot of the January 30th episode of Constantine "A Whole World Out There"

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:54 pm
  

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Tor wrote:
Glistam wrote:
The sheer abundance of mirrored surfaces in our modern world, coupled with the abundance of mirrors in general, makes this a frightening thought. How do you fight an enemy who can take advantage of these portals like this?

This is reminding me a lot of the January 30th episode of Constantine "A Whole World Out There"

With allies who can take advantage of it. That and paint or sand blaster.

It would be interesting if a distorted mirror made the walker distorted.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:40 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
In response to this off-topic post from another thread...
Tor wrote:
Some wiggle-room might be allowed regarding what qualifies as a 'permanent' mirror. Something fluid like water probably wouldn't...
It does; see my quoted excerpts here.

Tor wrote:
In the sense of standard glass-on-polished-metal I can't think of a way to exclude other things without excluding this, including GBs.
There are no exclusions. If it has a reflection, and could have a counterpart in the Nightlands, it will allow mirrorwalking and traversing the mirrorwall.

Tor wrote:
Maybe GBs don't reflect a clear enough image? Only a fuzzy non-mirror thing to lessen laser
Is the abbreviation "GBs" supposed to refer to "Glitter Boys," as in the laser reflective robotic power armor from the Chaos Earth and Rifts dimensions? Hardly relevant in the Nightbane dimension (especially because of the anti-tech dimensional barriers). But to indulge the thought experiment I will remind you that things like car mirrors don't have Nightlands equivalents because the Nightlands has no cars. Do you postulate that the Nightlands has Glitter Boys? That is the only way you could use the reflective armor of a Glitter Boy to mirrorwalk.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:02 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Actually, to be fair the Lady of the Lake excerpt doesn't necessarily mean that everyone, or even anyone, can mirror walk through water. Just that she can travel, through some means, through her lake. Which leaves the possibility that if it is mirror walking (it is not explicitly stated to be such),its a special ability of hers, or due to her bond with the lake. Especially since this book says that the Mirror Wall is the barrier that separates dimensions, so saying her home is beyond the Mirrorwall only means its in another dimension, and her ability to step through it is not said to be mirror walking, just that she can use it as a portal.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:50 pm
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
eliakon wrote:
Actually, to be fair the Lady of the Lake excerpt doesn't necessarily mean that everyone, or even anyone, can mirror walk through water. Just that she can travel, through some means, through her lake. Which leaves the possibility that if it is mirror walking (it is not explicitly stated to be such),its a special ability of hers, or due to her bond with the lake. Especially since this book says that the Mirror Wall is the barrier that separates dimensions, so saying her home is beyond the Mirrorwall only means its in another dimension, and her ability to step through it is not said to be mirror walking, just that she can use it as a portal.

The Warcamp excerpt also indicates the ability to mirror-walk through a lake.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:58 pm
  

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Glistam wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Actually, to be fair the Lady of the Lake excerpt doesn't necessarily mean that everyone, or even anyone, can mirror walk through water. Just that she can travel, through some means, through her lake. Which leaves the possibility that if it is mirror walking (it is not explicitly stated to be such),its a special ability of hers, or due to her bond with the lake. Especially since this book says that the Mirror Wall is the barrier that separates dimensions, so saying her home is beyond the Mirrorwall only means its in another dimension, and her ability to step through it is not said to be mirror walking, just that she can use it as a portal.

The Warcamp excerpt also indicates the ability to mirror-walk through a lake.

Not really. It just says that you need to mirror walk after swimming in the lake and getting close to a chamber buried in the lake.
The exact mechanics of how that works are...vague. It could mean that you can use the water...except that it begs the question of what your matching mirror is. Retroactively this can be solved by applying the Mirror Man feature from the Nightbane Survival Guide. But with out that, it means that
1) 'mirror' can include dark, non-reflective water that is being disturbed by a swimmer, possibly even not involving the surface (if you have to dive in the water to get near the chamber then your walking from the middle of the lake....)
2) that there are mirrors/pools of water in every room of the warcamp
or
1) that their is an editorial mistake in the book, and the offered example is actually not really possible.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:26 am
  

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Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
The power of "Mirrorsight" works with "a quiet body of water" as well as other mirrored surfaces.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:26 pm
  

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A reflective surface is not necessarily a mirror regardless.

But a completely still lake with a strong source of light and high refraction quality of the water (not murkey but not quite crystal clear or having polarizing minerals, etc in it) would be like a giant mirror, if the nightlands has a similar body of water in the same location that also happens to be exerpience the same phenomena that would definitely qualify as a mirror (So a pool of water inside a camp that is protected from being disturbed and that is experiencing enough of the conditions to be reflective).

There is a way to store water in a certain manner in a basin to use as a mirror, a kind of living mirror actually so its plausible from the mirror walking standpoint (not to mention non-bane examples in fiction of mirror walking it "ripples" like stepping into a reflective pool, etc).

Could get rather dangerous and fun to play with as a GM as well. Can you go back through that mirror now that you've disturbed it by going through it? lots of fun could be had there. But still yes you need a matching counterpart on the other side.

A rear view mirror or car door mirror is not a particularly reliable mirror walking object just like a reflective body of water would not be. But that mysterious still lake that hasn't been disturbed in a 200 years by so much as even a breeze or spec of dust (spooooky)?!

So this as usually falls back into "GM's discretion"
Glitter Boy armor would probably be the same...except It seems unlikely that a GB counterpart armor suit (or equivilent happens to be around... if it does... does a Night Lord's general happen to be wearing it and you step right into the middle of the lair?


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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:30 am
  

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Palladin

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Glistam wrote:
The power of "Mirrorsight" works with "a quiet body of water" as well as other mirrored surfaces.

The various 'mirror' prefixed abilities/spells all seem to have their own criteria for what is 'mirror enough' for them to work though.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:36 pm
  

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Glistam wrote:
In response to this off-topic post from another thread...
Tor wrote:
Some wiggle-room might be allowed regarding what qualifies as a 'permanent' mirror. Something fluid like water probably wouldn't...
It does; see my quoted excerpts here.

My reply was not off-topic, since you did mention permanent mirrors in your original post. I can see the value in discussing it here though.

Right I for some reason forgot about reading that when I replied. It does beg the question what a "non-permanent" mirror is though, if a lake qualifies, considering that lakes can be drained and have a changing form and surface.

I'm tempted to think of the lake-example and permanent-statement as irreconcilable or meaningless. Most likely whowever wrote Survival Guide forgot about the inclusion or lakes in TTGD when introducing the new limitation.

One solution would be to view this as a new change within the universe: lakes used to work, but now due to some kind of mirrorwall-upset, lakes no longer work.

Glistam wrote:
There are no exclusions. If it has a reflection, and could have a counterpart in the Nightlands, it will allow mirrorwalking and traversing the mirrorwall.
Anything "could" have a reflection, whether or not it does is a GM judgment I guess. How flexible a counterpart is in appearance also seems like a GM thing. The Nightlands counterpart of a mirror on Earth could probably look different (menacing border and stuff) but I'd figure they would have similar size/shape of surface at least.

Glistam wrote:
I will remind you that things like car mirrors don't have Nightlands equivalents because the Nightlands has no cars.
Can't those morphing chariot things turn into cars though?

Couldn't the Nightlords eventually build cars in the Nightlands if they wanted to? Probably just not much incentive at present. I get the sense that Spook Squad is able to drive them in through dimensional portals, much like how they bring their guns.

Glistam wrote:
Do you postulate that the Nightlands has Glitter Boys? That is the only way you could use the reflective armor of a Glitter Boy to mirrorwalk.

Perhaps a shiny golem that looks like power armor could be the nightlands equivalent of power armor build on Nightbane Earth.

Presumably Nightbane Earths' tech level is more akin to our own (like we might see in Dead Reign or Beyond) so it'd probably only come up in cases where you had Dark Day happen to an Earth with HU-level science.

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 Post subject: Re: mirror/no mirror
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:31 am
  

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Somehow i missed it the firs time around, but if you are feeling fun you can have someone traveling through a mirror when say "the mirror surface of the lake gets disturbed" become "trapped" in the "world between mirrors" or the world "inside" mirrors, a certain master of mirrors from a certain comic and animation imprint, somewhat famous rogue of a certain speedster, had a fantastically describe word inside of mirrors when portaling (such as if the exit path mirror got shattered you'd have to find some other way out and most of them don't lead to anywhere just other paths inside the world/dimension between mirrors). Could be a fun or traumatizing solo adventure the character has to undertake (great for when some members of your group would be on break but not the one in question, or you want to have a duo game, etc).


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