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 Post subject: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:17 pm
  

D-Bee

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I have a question. The talent Speed Darkling, can it be used in conjunction with any other power/spell/psionic/talent in the entire palladium system to make u go faster and deal speed damage. ex:(Hero's Unlimited: Pg. 289 Sonic Flight) the character activates the sonic flight, then the speed darkling talent to do more damage. so instead of it being 1d4X10, its 1d4X10X10 damage.
If there is a speed damage table somewhere, i would love to know.


"The man that walks through the door in the Wall will never be the same as the man who went out. He will be wiser but less cocksure, happier but less self satisfied, humbler in acknowledging his ignorance, yet equipped to understand the relationship of words to things, of systematic reasoning to the unfathomable Mystery which it tries, forever vainly, to comprehend."

Aldous Huxley, The Doors of Perception


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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:35 pm
  

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Please state which book this talent is from.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:38 pm
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Please state which book this talent is from.


Nightbane survival guide.

It gives you a speed of your spd. attributex10 in MPH. so a speed of 22 in morphus leads to a 220MPH running speed.

this means it is compatible with a spell that boosts your speed attribute, like say Superhuman Speed. giving you a Spd. of 44 means you can then use this talent to run at 440 MPH.

However, a power like sonic speed, it is not compatible with. speed darkling is keyed off the Spd. attribute, and Sonic Speed does not boost your speed attribute, it merely gives you a flat running speed of 670 MPH. Sinse this does not effect your Spd. attribute in any way, speed darkling would not increase this speed unless your Spd. attribute was already greater than 67.

It would however provide the other combat bonus's and autododge in conjunction with such powers.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:52 pm
  

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Incorrect. it's compatible with any speed power. Sonic Speed is a speed of 892 or so.
That's why that speed table in HU2 was for. If the GM can't reverse a characters' speed attribute from the table.. well.. sucks to be him.
I would just use the +4 per 20mph, unless he's using some sort of invulnerable speed crashing manuever, then i'd just stick a multipler of x 10 to the existing damage...

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:55 pm
  

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Also because, this would allow travel beyond the normal limit ....

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:25 am
  

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Rappanui wrote:
Incorrect. it's compatible with any speed power. Sonic Speed is a speed of 892 or so.
That's why that speed table in HU2 was for. If the GM can't reverse a characters' speed attribute from the table.. well.. sucks to be him.
I would just use the +4 per 20mph, unless he's using some sort of invulnerable speed crashing manuever, then i'd just stick a multipler of x 10 to the existing damage...


again, looking at the books and powers in question... this would NOT work with other powers since it itself is a speed multiplier. I would think it would work with sorcerous speed boosters but most banes do not have these.
the PPE drain on this would make using it at it's top speed a total PPE drainer.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:24 am
  

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Rappanui wrote:
Incorrect. it's compatible with any speed power. Sonic Speed is a speed of 892 or so.
That's why that speed table in HU2 was for. If the GM can't reverse a characters' speed attribute from the table.. well.. sucks to be him.
I would just use the +4 per 20mph, unless he's using some sort of invulnerable speed crashing manuever, then i'd just stick a multipler of x 10 to the existing damage...


actually nothing says you convert 670 MPH as your speed attribute, the way it's written indicates you keep your normal speed attribute for when your not using sonic speed, and then you ignore it and go 670 MPH when you use sonic speed.

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You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:32 pm
  

D-Bee

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Ok, i have run into another snag, and it has to do with the combat form that Nightbane have in their morphus form. when a nightbane is in morphus form, can they use other hand to hand martial arts styles. The same player wants to use Oken-Wa out of Rifter #3 in his morphus form saying that equivalent is equivalent. So he would get to use it. I have read other forums, I need an official standing. I do apologize.



"The man that walks through the door in the Wall will never be the same as the man who went out. He will be wiser but less cocksure, happier but less self satisfied, humbler in acknowledging his ignorance, yet equipped to understand the relationship of words to things, of systematic reasoning to the unfathomable Mystery which it tries, forever vainly, to comprehend."

Aldous Huxley, The Doors of Perception


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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:13 pm
  

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that's generally done, but Someone with sonic power can move slower if he wants to.
only rocket punch/rocket jump powers are uncontrolled max speed.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:24 pm
  

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Rappanui wrote:
Incorrect. it's compatible with any speed power. Sonic Speed is a speed of 892 or so.
That's why that speed table in HU2 was for. If the GM can't reverse a characters' speed attribute from the table.. well.. sucks to be him.
I would just use the +4 per 20mph, unless he's using some sort of invulnerable speed crashing maneuver, then i'd just stick a multiplier of x 10 to the existing damage...

NB can't have super powers. :roll: So this talent can not Boost a super power. This is a very basic concept you are forgetting, missed or not getting. :sleep:

This is besides the Ex. Spd. and Sonic Speed do not raise the char's spd attribute. They only give mph/Mach speed to the hero. The spd attribute is the speed the hero can run if her powers are negated. Which is why you do not replace the spd score with the power's numbers.

Even if the GM lets the NB have a super power in their Facade in her game, they would only work while the NB is in their facade, and said talent is only available for use in the NB's morphus.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:01 am
  

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While that's normally the case, in Villains unlimited writeups it's done in the otherway. thats' why none of the speedsters have their normal speed attribute listed ...

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:51 am
  

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Rappanui wrote:
Incorrect. it's compatible with any speed power. Sonic Speed is a speed of 892 or so. That's why that speed table in HU2 was for. If the GM can't reverse a characters' speed attribute from the table.. well.. sucks to be him.

That's something debatable, it's not entirely clear if we can just reverse-engineer speed attributes. If we could, the running and athletics skills could slightly improve the performance of Sonic Speed, and I never got that inclination.

Especially for those of us who adore the dodge bonuses the Spd attribute gives in TMNT, I don't just want to hand that out to some superfreak.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
NB can't have super powers.

Where do we get this idea? I imagine a lot of powers (like APS) wouldn't work due to their natural abilities to prevent changing, but why wouldn't others that didn't alter the structure?

Rappanui wrote:
While that's normally the case, in Villains unlimited writeups it's done in the otherway. thats' why none of the speedsters have their normal speed attribute listed ...


In Century Station pg 169, Hitomi has her Spd listed at 20 in spite of having Extraordinary. Pg 159 Speedmetal's says 10/Special in spite of him having sonic. Hitomi probably should have also said /special but it's pretty clear, your Spd attribute doesn't actually change. Rather you get a set speed that replaces your normal Speed attribute.

It appears to work like SDC from APS, it just overrides rather than supplementing.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:16 pm
  

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century station is a bad choice because that book alone and it's counterpart, are full of Characters that violate the rules in every possible way. Villains unlimited Mutant underground and Aliens unlimited are the only valid books to base this on.
This was CErtainly true of Villains unlimited and Justice Machine. (that superspeed replaced the speed score of a character)

as for banes not having superpowers.. not gonna happen.. they can probably emulate various superpowers with talents and spells, but not the powers themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:11 am
  

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Tor wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
NB can't have super powers.

Where do we get this idea? I imagine a lot of powers (like APS) wouldn't work due to their natural abilities to prevent changing, but why wouldn't others that didn't alter the structure?

Because any powers the NB would have, are expressed as NB Talents, not hero powers. This is a basic concept of what NB are at work, if the char is a NB then the powers they have are NB Talents.

You might try bringing up that there are NB mages. But casting magic is a skill, not a power.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:28 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
any powers the NB would have, are expressed as NB Talents, not hero powers.
Not if they learn magic or a martial art. Then they can get spells or Zenjoriki. Not clear on the chi issue, curious if they would be positive or negative chi creatures.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
This is a basic concept of what NB are at work, if the char is a NB then the powers they have are NB Talents. You might try bringing up that there are NB mages. But casting magic is a skill, not a power.
It's a little bit of both, just like Talents, since you can burn off PPE to learn those as well.

Nowhere are NB limited only to having Talents as powers.

What stops them would be more along the lines of most routes to superpowers being transformative in nature.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:51 pm
  

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INcorrect, HU Gm guide specifically addresses this issue, so does Between the Shadows, ...
Nightbane Can not have superpowers, but can have minor cybernetics in facade. those implants do not appear/operate while in morphus form.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:44 pm
  

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Tor wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
any powers the NB would have, are expressed as NB Talents, not hero powers.
Not if they learn magic or a martial art. Then they can get spells or Zenjoriki. Not clear on the chi issue, curious if they would be positive or negative chi creatures.

Hero Powers=Super Powers :roll:
NB are Positive.


Tor wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
This is a basic concept of what NB are at work, if the char is a NB then the powers they have are NB Talents. You might try bringing up that there are NB mages. But casting magic is a skill, not a power.
It's a little bit of both, just like Talents, since you can burn off PPE to learn those as well.

Nowhere are NB limited only to having Talents as powers.

What stops them would be more along the lines of most routes to superpowers being transformative in nature.

Talents are "acquired" not learned. (NB can 'learn about' different talents but that is Lore; Talents. This would let the Char acquire a specific talent by ether burning off perm PPE or when leveling up gives a "free" talent.)

Nowhere, but the "concept" of what NB are. :roll: (Do I hear and echo?)
That there are NB mages points out that being able to cast spell magic is a skill, not a power.

*yawns like has already covered arguments why this is not true*

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:37 pm
  

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Rappanui wrote:
century station is a bad choice because that book alone and it's counterpart, are full of Characters that violate the rules in every possible way.
NPCs never violate the rules, they just follow rules we don't know yet. Which NPCs are you concerned about? I'm sure we can work up some form of explanation. Was that Fire/Ice "Calvin" fellow from here?

Rappanui wrote:
Villains unlimited Mutant underground and Aliens unlimited are the only valid books to base this on. This was CErtainly true of Villains unlimited and Justice Machine. (that superspeed replaced the speed score of a character)
Even if it did, it wouldn't mean we should give them a Spd attribute equivalent.

Rappanui wrote:
as for banes not having superpowers.. not gonna happen.. they can probably emulate various superpowers with talents and spells, but not the powers themselves.
Did you mean "as for banes having superpowers"? Double-negative here. I don't see why they can't get them though aside from the vast majority of ways of getting them being transformative. Some new categories (like PU2's Empowered, Imbued, Super-Invention) can be fueled by willpower, hynosis or objects, which wouldn't be restricted by the RCC except for powers which do APS (super-device in particular doesn't even allow those)

Rappanui wrote:
INcorrect, HU Gm guide specifically addresses this issue
Does the GM Guide specify Nightbane or make a more general statement about Supernatural beings? I flipped through the FAQ at the start but nothing jumped out, was hoping someone might have a page number. One tricky issue we have here is that while they are Latents (prior to the becoming) Nightbane in their mortal form are not supernatural beings and do not have their natural abilities such as immunity to transformation, so the question is what happens to super powers if a Latent gets some and undergoes the Becoming.

Rappanui wrote:
so does Between the Shadows, ... Nightbane Can not have superpowers, but can have minor cybernetics in facade. those implants do not appear/operate while in morphus form.
BetShad pg 143 mentions that both the Facade and Morphus will expel bionics. That the Facade will not expel cybernetic bio-system prosthetics but that they temporarily disappear while in Morphus. The middle ground (non-bionics non-bio system cybernetics) also appears to be expelled like bionics are.

It it also mentioned that magic tattoos do not work.

Where are super abilities mentioned? Pg 141 is about HU/Nightbane crossovers and I don't see it mentioned that they can't get them. If there is a non-transformation way to get a super-power, why wouldn't they be able to?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
NB are Positive.
I guess I'm just really wondering. I remember it being claimed/implied somewhere vampires would be negative, though I'm not sure on the issue. Makes me wonder about Wampyres, Athanatos, Formless Ones, Hounds, etc.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Talents are "acquired" not learned. (NB can 'learn about' different talents but that is Lore; Talents. This would let the Char acquire a specific talent by ether burning off perm PPE or when leveling up gives a "free" talent.)
That Lore sounds like a good choice for anyone with Copy Morphus.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
That there are NB mages points out that being able to cast spell magic is a skill, not a power.
Fair enough...

I do wonder about Martial Arts Powers in N&SS. Mixed feelings on whether they are skills or powers. Most Body Hardening skills seem like physical skills and most Arts of Invisibility (save the mystic invisibility one) seem a lot like espionage/rogue skills. While the special katas (save perhaps the MA boosting one and the Chi Katas) seem a lot like hand to hand or WP skills. The ones I jump to thinking of as powers are basically the chi mastery ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:09 pm
  

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Tor wrote:
snip...
I do wonder about Martial Arts Powers in N&SS. Mixed feelings on whether they are skills or powers. Most Body Hardening skills seem like physical skills and most Arts of Invisibility (save the mystic invisibility one) seem a lot like espionage/rogue skills. While the special katas (save perhaps the MA boosting one and the Chi Katas) seem a lot like hand to hand or WP skills. The ones I jump to thinking of as powers are basically the chi mastery ones.

GM's I have played under have ruled that all MA power/abilities/skills are only available while in their facade. (I agree with their rulings.)
The supporting ideas are found in that the NB has the intuitive H2H MA in their morphus overriding the facade's hand to hand skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:04 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Tor wrote:
snip...
I do wonder about Martial Arts Powers in N&SS. Mixed feelings on whether they are skills or powers. Most Body Hardening skills seem like physical skills and most Arts of Invisibility (save the mystic invisibility one) seem a lot like espionage/rogue skills. While the special katas (save perhaps the MA boosting one and the Chi Katas) seem a lot like hand to hand or WP skills. The ones I jump to thinking of as powers are basically the chi mastery ones.

GM's I have played under have ruled that all MA power/abilities/skills are only available while in their facade. (I agree with their rulings.)
The supporting ideas are found in that the NB has the intuitive H2H MA in their morphus overriding the facade's hand to hand skills.


Which is only because in Nightbane of the available Martial Arts HtH: MA is considered the 'best' to have, with the rest considered inferior. That isn't written from the context of compatibility with HtH skills that are rare or imported from other settings. It would make no sense at all that a Nightbane would somehow 'forget' his Zanji training when becoming his 'true' form, or that he somehow couldn't continue to access his Chi Mastery abilities as those are specialized skills and it would make no more sense for a Nightbane in its transformed state to not be able to use their specialized MA training than for them to forget how to swim if they knew how in their facade.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:36 am
  

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I ignore the Martial Arts the bane has and just stack the "bonuses" to his existing forms.
and give them all kickattacks/holds/blocks. ...

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:27 am
  

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Rappanui wrote:
I ignore the Martial Arts the bane has and just stack the "bonuses" to his existing forms.
and give them all kickattacks/holds/blocks. ...


Does seem a more workable and suitable way of handling it, instead of replacing their existing MA they just add bonuses to it (so the guy with just HtH: Basic isn't inexplicably as good as the guy who's already a superior HtH fighter who'd gain no improvement in comparison to the other when both became Nightbane).

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:23 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
GM's I have played under have ruled that all MA power/abilities/skills are only available while in their facade. (I agree with their rulings.)
The supporting ideas are found in that the NB has the intuitive H2H MA in their morphus overriding the facade's hand to hand skills.

Would they also lose WP skills then? Physical skills?

The language about this isn't very exact. Pg 88 says they have innate MA, but not that it overrides. The skill packages on pg 89 are more suggestive, but also more contradictory. On one hand is says "applies only to the Facade", but on the other hand it says "Most Nightbane fight with combat abilities equal to basic martial arts combat". Most means there can be exceptions, or they'd say "all".

The way this can be interpreted without any contradictions is thus:
1. Basic Nightbane Skill Package, HtH only applies to facade
2. Resistance / Spook Squad, also only applies to facade
3. Nocturne/Seeker/Lightbringer: does not only apply to Facade, that disclaimer is absent, so a bane with Expert/Assassin might opt to use some of those benefits in lieu of their instinctive HtH.
4. Sorcerer/Mystic: only affects Facade
5. other OCCs: hand to hand applies to both facade and morphus, because like Noc/Seek/Light guys, the OCCs lack the disclaimer.

The only restrictive disclaimer is in the skill packages and not the RCC itself, so only those HtHs are explicitly limited.

Nightmask wrote:
only because in Nightbane of the available Martial Arts HtH: MA is considered the 'best' to have, with the rest considered inferior.
I dunno, Assassin is pretty good. Most attacks, and strike bonuses are basically the most important ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:49 pm
  

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* :roll: @ the munchkin slant of the question*

WP & other physical skills are not effected. Even WPs and phy.skills gained through a MAF. It is the Martial Arts Powers and the MAF which can not be used while in their Morphus

Note: what I said in the previus post was me stating what GM rulings I've encountered on this subject. I agree with such rulings due to that they follow the spirit of the text that cover this subject.

I see the word "most" as to give a GM leeway to let a char not have the 'MA h2h' MAF as the MAF that the NB uses in his/her morphus.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:52 am
  

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lol spirit of the text, getting mystical on us now. Us SORCERERS rely on what the scrolls say and not our intuitions.

Interesting idea about being able to upgrade the morphus HtH, though I'm not sure how the mechanics of that would work.

In regard to martial arts powers though, considering some things (body hardening, MAtechs) work regardless of which form you use (including chi mastery) shouldn't only form-specific stuff like Atemi/Katas be restricted to when you're using that HtH?

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:16 pm
  

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Tor wrote:
lol spirit of the text, getting mystical on us now. Us SORCERERS rely on what the scrolls say and not our intuitions.
Fine, if you don't like to call it the spirit of the text, then how about try reading the subtext of the text. :roll:

Quote:
Interesting idea about being able to upgrade the morphus HtH, though I'm not sure how the mechanics of that would work.

It starts off with bringing the GM a package of his or here favorite <food item> (beer/soda/chips/etc...) and then asking nicely.


Quote:
In regard to martial arts powers though, considering some things (body hardening, MAtechs) work regardless of which form you use (including chi mastery) shouldn't only form-specific stuff like Atemi/Katas be restricted to when you're using that HtH?

BHE: are only bonuses to the facade and the morphus bonuses just stack on top of the facade stats.

MATech & Chi Mastery powers are be blocked.

Atemi & katas are limited to the facade if the morphus is radically non-human in form. If the morphus is a humanoid form then there is a possibility to fast talk the GM into being able to use them.

These answers are presuming that the MAF was learned while in their facade and common sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:59 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
how about try reading the subtext of the text.
Unless there's some kind of official cipher for finding hidden messages, subtext is an imaginary idea and not law.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
MATech & Chi Mastery powers are be blocked.
Based on what? These are things which apply to other forms, including the natural combat form you gain in Morphus.

Not using a form doesn't mean you can't use powers the form gave which can be used with other forms.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Atemi & katas are limited to the facade if the morphus is radically non-human in form. If the morphus is a humanoid form then there is a possibility to fast talk the GM into being able to use them.
I can agree to an extent here. Some atemi require specific attacks (like a 1-finger touch) and if you have chainsaw for arms you can't exactly do it.

Though I'm not clear on what special katas would be prevented by a Morphus, except weapon katas, liek "I can't use my WP kata in knives because my arms are guns which can't hold knives"

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:16 pm
  

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Tor wrote:
snip..
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
MATech & Chi Mastery powers are be blocked.
Based on what? These are things which apply to other forms, including the natural combat form you gain in Morphus.

Not using a form doesn't mean you can't use powers the form gave which can be used with other forms.

...snip

If you have not figured it out yet, chi abilities are nearly all body related. :roll:


The NB char would have to relearn every power in their morphus, to be able to use them in their morphus. This would take just as long, or longer because of their instinctive predispositions toward talents and their instinctive combat abilities, to relearn said powers in their morphus.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:30 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
If you have not figured it out yet, chi abilities are nearly all body related. :roll:
Which, besides body chi which increases attributes, are you referring to, exactly?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The NB char would have to relearn every power in their morphus, to be able to use them in their morphus.
No they wouldn't. Nothing about chi abilities says you need to relearn them (or any aspect of martial arts) to use them in an altered physical structure. There are conversion notes about HU so this would have been mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:00 pm
  

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Tor wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The NB char would have to relearn every power in their morphus, to be able to use them in their morphus.
No they wouldn't. Nothing about chi abilities says you need to relearn them (or any aspect of martial arts) to use them in an altered physical structure. There are conversion notes about HU so this would have been mentioned.

point one: All 1st level NB chars are very new to their becomings so they have not had to fully adjust to their "New Body". Thus no MA or Chi powers in their "New Body". Since Chi is the power of the body and spirit if you change the body radically that you mess up the pathways that were developed to produce the effects.*yawn*
Yes, I am using Real World explanation wording to explain things.

Not necessarily. PB has a habit of writing up generalized conversion notes and not covering all the bases when taking about interactions with ALL the settings unique stuff. Which M's and M-RL' twist the rules about to uber-power their chars.

But you do have a (minor) point, and I would rule that a hero could not use Chi & MA powers while in an APS state. The reason GM's would make such a ruling is because there is no text covering said situation. Duh!

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Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

My Artwork


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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:04 pm
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Tor wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
The NB char would have to relearn every power in their morphus, to be able to use them in their morphus.
No they wouldn't. Nothing about chi abilities says you need to relearn them (or any aspect of martial arts) to use them in an altered physical structure. There are conversion notes about HU so this would have been mentioned.


point one: All 1st level NB chars are very new to their becomings so they have not had to fully adjust to their "New Body". Thus no MA or Chi powers in their "New Body". Since Chi is the power of the body and spirit if you change the body radically that you mess up the pathways that were developed to produce the effects.*yawn*
Yes, I am using Real World explanation wording to explain things.

Not necessarily. PB has a habit of writing up generalized conversion notes and not covering all the bases when taking about interactions with ALL the settings unique stuff. Which M's and M-RL' twist the rules about to uber-power their chars.

But you do have a (minor) point, and I would rule that a hero could not use Chi & MA powers while in an APS state. The reason GM's would make such a ruling is because there is no text covering said situation. Duh!


Nothing exists to support the idea that any of the MA powers including the Chi powers are somehow dependent on ones body remaining in a particular state and having to relearn how to use them in an altered physical state. There is no 'adjusting' to a NB body, no penalties given to anything unless the physical form is directly incompatible with it (like a nightbane without standard hands having problems using things that require normal hands).

So given the absence of a rule that says they do have problems then no one doesn't have problems making use of any of their MA powers in the rare cases of a Nightbane who has an exclusive MA like Tae Kwon Do or Tai-Chi Ch'uan.

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 Post subject: Re: Talent questions.
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:43 am
  

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drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
All 1st level NB chars are very new to their becomings so they have not had to fully adjust to their "New Body". Thus no MA or Chi powers in their "New Body". Since Chi is the power of the body and spirit if you change the body radically that you mess up the pathways that were developed to produce the effects.*yawn* Yes, I am using Real World explanation wording to explain things.
Real world explanations don't apply to Palladium.

Your logic falls apart in actual examples: if we look at Infernals from Mystic China (the normal ones, not those human-wannabe sellouts who fix their forms) they can take on any shape they want to, yet this doesn't impede their chi powers at all, and they can use it in any form.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
I would rule that a hero could not use Chi & MA powers while in an APS state. The reason GM's would make such a ruling is because there is no text covering said situation. Duh!

Actually there is. N&SS has notes in the back of it about Heroes Unlimited. Pages 165 to 166 describe how martial arts powers react with a variety of super abilities. For example, how Chi Attacks can harm both Intangible and Invulnerable characters and how Invulnerability makes you immune to several kinds of Atemi yet you remain vulnerable to some others. It mentions how some kinds of Alter Physical Structures can allow characters to escape holds or joint locks, and whether or not it causes damage to do so. It mentions how some super abilities increase a character's chi, and how Mimic allows you to copy chi powers. It mentions how some characters with super powers (Mutants and Experiments) can learn any non-exclusive martial art (which has plenty of options to learn pretty much any MAP).

If APS prevented someone from using any MAPs or hand to hand combat skills, a critical detail like that would have been listed. It's absurd to think otherwise. The burden falls upon you to provide a reason why APS would impede combat abilities.

Except for obvious cases (like not being able to kick because you lack feet) the assumption should be that martial art forms still work and don't need to be relearned due to changes in form.

Nightmask wrote:
given the absence of a rule that says they do have problems then no one doesn't have problems making use of any of their MA powers in the rare cases of a Nightbane who has an exclusive MA like Tae Kwon Do or Tai-Chi Ch'uan.
I hate to be a jerk since we're on the same side on this thread, but TKD and Tai Chi aren't exclusive forms :)

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