Moloch: Where does he live?

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Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

During a conversation with a GM, and in the process of looking up Dooms harbor, I discovered that moloch's offical residence and personal castle dosn't appear to be mentioned anywhere. While Dooms Harbor is his effective command center, it is Nominally ruled by Lord Ashert and actually ruled by Prince Janus, and while Moloch is often staying to keep tabs on things, it's not his real home.

But Moloch's true power base is never mentioned, not even what contient it's on. Did I miss it somewhere or did they forget to actually say where the biggest badguy in the setting lives? :?
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by BookWyrm »

I don't think it may have been left out intentionally, but it's also a good plot point. Doom's Harbor may be his command base, but where does he go to unwind from subjugating the masses of the Nightlands & let his proverbial hair down?

One possibility is the Nightlands equivalent to The Hamptons, with Moloch's private domain taking up a large (maybe 35%?) sector of those lands, with the Night Princes & his Lieutenants' personal "pleasure pits" radiating out from his property/compound. While on the outside, Moloch's "Black Xanadu" resembles a gothic, fully-protected & nightmare-ish version of King Louis XIV's palace-lands (legend has it the fountains constantly run with fresh human blood & the statuary are actual living souls trapped in eternal torment), the inside rooms are said to play host to every form of depravity imaginable (Moloch actually rewards the occasional 'guest' that makes an original suggestion).

Also (sorry, got off track there), Moloch has no fixed place of residence, keeping himself on the move to discourage assassination attempts....the last one, of course, failed, just ask the palace statues....
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

BookWyrm wrote:I don't think it may have been left out intentionally, but it's also a good plot point. Doom's Harbor may be his command base, but where does he go to unwind from subjugating the masses of the Nightlands & let his proverbial hair down?

One possibility is the Nightlands equivalent to The Hamptons, with Moloch's private domain taking up a large (maybe 35%?) sector of those lands, with the Night Princes & his Lieutenants' personal "pleasure pits" radiating out from his property/compound. While on the outside, Moloch's "Black Xanadu" resembles a gothic, fully-protected & nightmare-ish version of King Louis XIV's palace-lands (legend has it the fountains constantly run with fresh human blood & the statuary are actual living souls trapped in eternal torment), the inside rooms are said to play host to every form of depravity imaginable (Moloch actually rewards the occasional 'guest' that makes an original suggestion).

Also (sorry, got off track there), Moloch has no fixed place of residence, keeping himself on the move to discourage assassination attempts....the last one, of course, failed, just ask the palace statues....


The last one came very close to succeeding, though :)

EDIT: Is his moving constantly to avoid assassination offical someplace, or just your interpretation? it's a good one in the latter case.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Tor »

Perhaps he abandoned hanging out in a single place after a Reshaper tried to assassinate him there. It's a logical interpretation.

Also I assume he hangs out underneath the Harbor where the portal to The Dark is located. Although canonically, the Unknown (Reshaper) has been there already, so nowhere is safe for poor ol' Molek.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Tor wrote:Perhaps he abandoned hanging out in a single place after a Reshaper tried to assassinate him there. It's a logical interpretation.

Also I assume he hangs out underneath the Harbor where the portal to The Dark is located. Although canonically, the Unknown (Reshaper) has been there already, so nowhere is safe for poor ol' Molek.


Why would he want to just chill next to a giant portal of evil? How would that be remotely entertaining or engaging for him? He's stated to be a chessmaster who loves mind games and proving his superority over his lessers (i.e. Everyone Else), so he likes to spend time by...staring blankly at a black void.

I like to think villians are a bit more intelligent and well, interesting than just sitting alone in a room brooding over how evil they are. It'd make more sense if he spent his free time playing Call of Duty on X-box.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

[dumb joke] The Nightlands side of Sesame Street. He is the real reason they never tell us where it is.[/dumb joke]

I would have him move his home base to center of power or corruption. For example Berlin during WWII.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by BookWyrm »

Hmm, now what would be a center of power & corruption in Doom's Harbor? The Nightlands version of the NYSE? City Hall?
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

BookWyrm wrote:Hmm, now what would be a center of power & corruption in Doom's Harbor? The Nightlands version of the NYSE? City Hall?


it's the empire state building, where Lord Ashert holds his meaningless court, where prince janus does the actual ruling, where Moloch sits on his throneroom (bigger and better than Ashtarts naturally) when he is in town, and where he keeps his portal to the dark hidden.

the latter probablly makes it the nexus for all corruption in the world :D
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Rallan »

Well the guy's got holdings all over the world so he could live anywhere, but if I had to give him a permanent base then I'd put him somewhere in the middle east or central asia, in a hella badass fortress at the site of what was once the first city of his first empire.

When he's in New York at all, I figure he just kicks Ashtart out of his suite to spite the poor guy and lives there.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

Hmm, didn't the legends say they started in primordial mesopotamia?
So Babylon/Byzantium{dark Istanbul} or Dark Bagdad?

Also (sorry, got off track there), Moloch has no fixed place of residence, keeping himself on the move to discourage assassination attempts....the last one, of course, failed, just ask the palace statues....


Oooh, fitting with " he keeps moving it around" how about Iran's capital. Not terhan, ALL 32+ of them:
Susa,
Anshan,
Zirta (Izirtu),
Ecbatana,
Pasargadae,
Susa,
Persepolis,
Seleucia,
Antioch,
Ctesiphon,
Hecatompylos,
Mithridatkird-Nisa,
Asaak,
Firouzabad,
Ctesiphon,
Damghan,
Nishapur,
Zaranj,
Amol,
Bukhara,
Balkh,
Samarkand,
Herat,
Ghazni,
Nishapur,
Rey,
Konye-Urgench
Maragheh,
Soltaniyeh,
Tabriz,
Samarkand,
Herat,
Tabriz,
Qazvin,
Isfahan,
Mashhad,
Shiraz,
Sari
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Tor »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Tor wrote:I assume he hangs out underneath the Harbor where the portal to The Dark is located.

Why would he want to just chill next to a giant portal of evil? How would that be remotely entertaining or engaging for him? He's stated to be a chessmaster who loves mind games and proving his superority over his lessers (i.e. Everyone Else), so he likes to spend time by...staring blankly at a black void. I like to think villians are a bit more intelligent and well, interesting than just sitting alone in a room brooding over how evil they are. It'd make more sense if he spent his free time playing Call of Duty on X-box.
You can do both. It doesn't say the room with the portal of evil lacks an outlet and wireless router. He could just be surfing the web and seeing how his plans are going worldwide while PKing his teammates on Tribes 2.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Granted. but why do it there when the idea is to keep it's location a secret.

Actually, wait, the portal to the dark is in the nightlands--I don't think there's any internet there.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by BookWyrm »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:I don't think it may have been left out intentionally, but it's also a good plot point. Doom's Harbor may be his command base, but where does he go to unwind from subjugating the masses of the Nightlands & let his proverbial hair down?

One possibility is the Nightlands equivalent to The Hamptons, with Moloch's private domain taking up a large (maybe 35%?) sector of those lands, with the Night Princes & his Lieutenants' personal "pleasure pits" radiating out from his property/compound. While on the outside, Moloch's "Black Xanadu" resembles a gothic, fully-protected & nightmare-ish version of King Louis XIV's palace-lands (legend has it the fountains constantly run with fresh human blood & the statuary are actual living souls trapped in eternal torment), the inside rooms are said to play host to every form of depravity imaginable (Moloch actually rewards the occasional 'guest' that makes an original suggestion).

Also (sorry, got off track there), Moloch has no fixed place of residence, keeping himself on the move to discourage assassination attempts....the last one, of course, failed, just ask the palace statues....


The last one came very close to succeeding, though :)

EDIT: Is his moving constantly to avoid assassination official someplace, or just your interpretation? it's a good one in the latter case.


Sorry, didn't see your question until now. It's my interpretation, Moloch making sure he has no fixed personal base, but it's a smart leader that takes precautions. And let's face it, any of the Nightlords would do whatever it takes to gain one-up-man's-ship on each other.....
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:Hmm, now what would be a center of power & corruption in Doom's Harbor? The Nightlands version of the NYSE? City Hall?


it's the empire state building, where Lord Ashert holds his meaningless court, where prince janus does the actual ruling, where Moloch sits on his throneroom (bigger and better than Ashtarts naturally) when he is in town, and where he keeps his portal to the dark hidden.

the latter probablly makes it the nexus for all corruption in the world :D

So just like New York then? ;)
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Tor wrote:Perhaps he abandoned hanging out in a single place after a Reshaper tried to assassinate him there. It's a logical interpretation.

Also I assume he hangs out underneath the Harbor where the portal to The Dark is located. Although canonically, the Unknown (Reshaper) has been there already, so nowhere is safe for poor ol' Molek.


Why would he want to just chill next to a giant portal of evil? How would that be remotely entertaining or engaging for him? He's stated to be a chessmaster who loves mind games and proving his superority over his lessers (i.e. Everyone Else), so he likes to spend time by...staring blankly at a black void.

I like to think villians are a bit more intelligent and well, interesting than just sitting alone in a room brooding over how evil they are. It'd make more sense if he spent his free time playing Call of Duty on X-box.

Well maybe it's like hanging out near the dark one's prison in the wheel of time series.. his minions are transfixed by his glory and power. After all, unless it's defined a particular way in the more recent books, the Dark's probably pretty mentally overpowering itself - perhaps it's like a drug. Imagine a Nightlord heroin equivalent
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Nightlords receive no pentalty around the dark portal--meaing it has no adverse effects on them, and i'd say being a drug is a bad effect.

Honestly, the idea sounds just silly. I havn't read WoT, but "chilling in a throne room around the object of evil" always looked like "I'm too lazy to give my villians hobbies and/or personality"
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nightmask »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Nightlords receive no pentalty around the dark portal--meaing it has no adverse effects on them, and i'd say being a drug is a bad effect.

Honestly, the idea sounds just silly. I havn't read WoT, but "chilling in a throne room around the object of evil" always looked like "I'm too lazy to give my villians hobbies and/or personality"


True, not much reason to do that unless you have to for some reason, either because you have to be near it to keep powered up or because you're paranoid about anyone else getting near it.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

Well, I can't blame you for not reading the WoT, there's a lot of books and some of them are a waste of space. All ideas are silly to someone. You can always make something up as the GM and say that the Dark can exert the effect as it chooses and maybe it only applies to someone with direct communion with the Dark - e.g. Moloch and Mocker. Drugs can have positive and negative effects.

I mean this thing is the antithesis of life and excitement - it's a one-dimensional anti-life villain as described (in the books I'd read - the first 3 or 4). Maybe that's the only way it can get intelligent creatures to go along with it like the two big boy Nightlords - by screwing their brain up, maybe with some emotional transmission ability.. Or maybe it just preys on the depressed or those who want to be on top before the extinction event.

But I'll agree that sticking something intelligent in a boring room for hours or days without regard to verisimilitude would usually be a very good indication of a lack of imagination for the most part. (On the part of the villain designer that is)
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Actually, the books just say that the dark is just a powerful alien intelligence that wants to spread death to humanity. Why is unkown, but nothing indiciates it's the antithisis of life or excitement, and the personalities of those discribed as nightlords don't appear to be in any way drugged or bound to it. It's an intelligent force, and likes willing subjects, not drugged up ones.

Heck, it says explicitly that moloch dosn't spend most of his time anywhere in dooms harbor--which clearly means he's rarely in the room with it.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

Perhaps you're right. It's been a while since I looked at it, but I'm not sure it was even defined as an Alien Intelligence.
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Tor »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:why do it there when the idea is to keep it's location a secret.
He probably has an excellent firewall.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:the nightlands--I don't think there's any internet there.
Well that's assuming a lot. They have access to Earth tech, after all. Maybe it is inferior but surely they could at least manage an 80s or 90s level net. Moloch must have some Cybermages under his employ.

Eclipse wrote:hanging out near the dark one's prison in the wheel of time series.. his minions are transfixed by his glory and power. After all, unless it's defined a particular way in the more recent books, the Dark's probably pretty mentally overpowering itself - perhaps it's like a drug. Imagine a Nightlord heroin equivalent

From what I recall (albeit am only up to Winter's Heart) it wasn't really Heroin, a lot of them seemed happy to get out of there and did not look forward to coming, but knew they had to.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Nightlords receive no pentalty around the dark portal--meaing it has no adverse effects on them, and i'd say being a drug is a bad effect.
Nightlords don't get insanities, but I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to assume it still has a normal horror (or at least Awe) factor.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I havn't read WoT, but "chilling in a throne room around the object of evil" always looked like "I'm too lazy to give my villians hobbies and/or personality"
To clarify: chilling around the big bad in awe of his power isn't ALL the bad guys do in WoT, nor do I think that's what people are inferring what Moloch does. Just that he might spend a decent period of time there.

Eclipse wrote:can't blame you for not reading the WoT, there's a lot of books and some of them are a waste of space.
Not a waste, the story can drag out and the plot can move at a snail's pace at times (and then conversely, move SO FAST at others) but stuff does happen in each book. RJ is so descriptive that sometimes I think you could summarize each giant book in a single 30-60min anime episode though. Mind might just be skimming the details though.

Eclipse wrote:this thing is the antithesis of life and excitement - it's a one-dimensional anti-life villain as described (in the books I'd read - the first 3 or 4).

If Moloch and Mocker barely understand the thing I don't think any of us should assume we do. Sot4 ShadLight only built upon the idea that the Dark is actually pitting multiple sides against one another.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:books just say that the dark is just a powerful alien intelligence that wants to spread death to humanity. Why is unkown, but nothing indiciates it's the antithisis of life
Interesting. Makes me wonder what it is about humanity. Didn't specify a hatred of Formless Ones or Nightbane too?

Maybe there's something special about humanity? Maybe only Humans make Dopplegangers? Maybe Enlightened Immortals (Mystic China is referenced in TTGD, so it's canon) can only be reborn in human wombs?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:says explicitly that moloch dosn't spend most of his time anywhere in dooms harbor--which clearly means he's rarely in the room with it.
Good point, did not remember reading that.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

Tor wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:why do it there when the idea is to keep it's location a secret.
He probably has an excellent firewall.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:the nightlands--I don't think there's any internet there.
Well that's assuming a lot. They have access to Earth tech, after all. Maybe it is inferior but surely they could at least manage an 80s or 90s level net. Moloch must have some Cybermages under his employ.

Eclipse wrote:hanging out near the dark one's prison in the wheel of time series.. his minions are transfixed by his glory and power. After all, unless it's defined a particular way in the more recent books, the Dark's probably pretty mentally overpowering itself - perhaps it's like a drug. Imagine a Nightlord heroin equivalent

From what I recall (albeit am only up to Winter's Heart) it wasn't really Heroin, a lot of them seemed happy to get out of there and did not look forward to coming, but knew they had to.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Nightlords receive no pentalty around the dark portal--meaing it has no adverse effects on them, and i'd say being a drug is a bad effect.
Nightlords don't get insanities, but I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to assume it still has a normal horror (or at least Awe) factor.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:I havn't read WoT, but "chilling in a throne room around the object of evil" always looked like "I'm too lazy to give my villians hobbies and/or personality"
To clarify: chilling around the big bad in awe of his power isn't ALL the bad guys do in WoT, nor do I think that's what people are inferring what Moloch does. Just that he might spend a decent period of time there.

Eclipse wrote:can't blame you for not reading the WoT, there's a lot of books and some of them are a waste of space.
Not a waste, the story can drag out and the plot can move at a snail's pace at times (and then conversely, move SO FAST at others) but stuff does happen in each book. RJ is so descriptive that sometimes I think you could summarize ea ;) ch giant book in a single 30-60min anime episode though. Mind might just be skimming the details though.

Eclipse wrote:this thing is the antithesis of life and excitement - it's a one-dimensional anti-life villain as described (in the books I'd read - the first 3 or 4).

If Moloch and Mocker barely understand the thing I don't think any of us should assume we do. Sot4 ShadLight only built upon the idea that the Dark is actually pitting multiple sides against one another.


Fair enough, I think I'm mixing a few things together in my head. Guess I should write some fan fiction ;) I found the bowl of the winds section of the WoT books to be tedious. As for the heroin comment, I think I'm referring to the use of the dark one's true power, not being in his presence which was awe inspiring but also humiliating.
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Tor »

Oh, well I just got past the bowl of the winds thing... but it was kind of a necessary problem to deal with. The heat, my god, the heat. I happened to fine the Aes Sedai (started writing Bene Gesserit at first...) drama with the medicine women and pirates all pretty hilarious.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

The two trilogies of Dune were a good read, since you're mentioning Bene Gesserit. Lots of good potential rpg material there.
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Tor »

Honored Matres are sexier.
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Re: Moloch: Where does he live?

Unread post by Eclipse »

And together, you get a perfect fusion..
And if... somone whipped out a mini gun. We run and hide. lol.

Now.. some guys won't... and you can say nice things at their funeral. "He was a brave soul.... if stupid.. he didn't take cover when the guy whipped out the mini gun on us that day.. but his blood-fountaining corpse did give us a chance to sneak around and clonk the machine gunner on the head with a rock. Rest in Pieces.... Swiss Cheese Man.....

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