Board index » SDC Worlds » Nightbane®

 


Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.
Author Message
 Post subject: Minion War in Nightbane
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:13 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Has anyone have any thoughts concerning an adventure where the Minion Wars makes a foray nito the Nightbane universe? As there are demons in LA, and Devil City, I wondered if that was possible or probable. Any thoughts? Thanks


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:15 am
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 398
Location: Milford, CT
My Minion War Campaign has an adventure DIRECTLY inclusive of the Nightbane universe -- more specifically the Nightlands -- MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL...HOLY S**T!!!!!!

_________________
There is no spoon.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:13 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Witchcraft wrote:
My Minion War Campaign has an adventure DIRECTLY inclusive of the Nightbane universe -- more specifically the Nightlands -- MIRROR MIRROR ON THE WALL...HOLY S**T!!!!!!


My concept involves a Cro' Demon as an "emmisary" to the demons in LA/Devil City, relaying orders. As it states in the core book that getting to the Nightbane universe is difficult, and restrictive, opening rifts seems presumptive. What does your adventure involve, if I may ask?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:01 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 388
It's possible, anything is possible in the megaverse after all, but I've always considered the demons in NB different from the demons in DB Hades. You might need to do some explaining that way but if you want to do it, go right ahead.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:30 pm
  

User avatar
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:25 pm
Posts: 3107
Location: South of the Devil's Gate (St. Louis, MO)
Comment: I am the Alpha of the Omega...
...The First of The Last...
...and this is the beginning of your end.
Interestingly, Carl mentioned before why he didn't include Nightbane in the Minion War series. If you remember, in Nightlands it talks about how the Red Flame Demons tried to invade the Nightlands a long while before the current timeline. In response the Nightlords banded together and collapsed their home dimension. Yep, a whole DIMENSION. The demons and Deevils don't want any part of that nastiness, so they leave Nightbane Earth alone... Kinda makes things look bleak for our heroes when hell doesn't even want to tangle with what their fighting, huh? :lol:

_________________
Yeah, everytime I see a blazingly obvious moron walking the streets... I think, "score one for the creationists..." ~ DLDC
Warwolf is right... you can sig that. ~ TGK
I refuse to participate in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. ~ Me


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:01 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Warwolf wrote:
Interestingly, Carl mentioned before why he didn't include Nightbane in the Minion War series. If you remember, in Nightlands it talks about how the Red Flame Demons tried to invade the Nightlands a long while before the current timeline. In response the Nightlords banded together and collapsed their home dimension. Yep, a whole DIMENSION. The demons and Deevils don't want any part of that nastiness, so they leave Nightbane Earth alone... Kinda makes things look bleak for our heroes when hell doesn't even want to tangle with what their fighting, huh? :lol:

But, if the demons can lure the deevils to invade the nightlands, via rift established from the nightlands, the nightlords will be forced to engaged, and if they will be weakened by the attack., or so they hope... It is a thought. My logic is that the demons would not be in LA/Devil City unless there was an upside to being here.
Depravity is not a big enough incentive for a greater demon, plus, the Nightlands book states he getting marching orders.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:18 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Warwolf wrote:
Interestingly, Carl mentioned before why he didn't include Nightbane in the Minion War series. If you remember, in Nightlands it talks about how the Red Flame Demons tried to invade the Nightlands a long while before the current timeline. In response the Nightlords banded together and collapsed their home dimension. Yep, a whole DIMENSION. The demons and Deevils don't want any part of that nastiness, so they leave Nightbane Earth alone... Kinda makes things look bleak for our heroes when hell doesn't even want to tangle with what their fighting, huh? :lol:

Page 68 of "Nightlands" is the basis for my concept. Also, on page 128, where the information you metioned is, it refers to demons famous for using trickery where brute force has failed. Thank you for showing me this as it helps put another twist to my idea. I do not like making ideas that fly in the face of the published books, but, as I want to run a pure Nightbane game, I want to still be current to the Palladium timeline. It makes it easier for any new books to be implemented. If you have any further suggestions, I would be truly greatful.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:46 pm
  

User avatar
Dungeon Crawler

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:44 am
Posts: 398
Location: Milford, CT
I apologize for not responding sooner. Because players of my game read these boards I'm going to answer you in a PM

_________________
There is no spoon.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:15 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 3565
Location: Plymouth, CT
Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Witchcraft wrote:
I apologize for not responding sooner. Because players of my game read these boards I'm going to answer you in a PM

Aww...

_________________
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

Image

Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:20 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Glistam wrote:
Witchcraft wrote:
I apologize for not responding sooner. Because players of my game read these boards I'm going to answer you in a PM

Aww...

We just discussed what is already in the published books. Do you have any ideas? We can discuss, if you are willing...


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:43 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 3565
Location: Plymouth, CT
Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Absolem wrote:
Glistam wrote:
Witchcraft wrote:
I apologize for not responding sooner. Because players of my game read these boards I'm going to answer you in a PM

Aww...

We just discussed what is already in the published books. Do you have any ideas? We can discuss, if you are willing...

I'm actually one of the players he mentioned, that's what the "Aww..." was for when he decided to PM you. :lol:

_________________
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

Image

Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:22 am
  

Champion

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 2794
Absolem wrote:
Has anyone have any thoughts concerning an adventure where the Minion Wars makes a foray nito the Nightbane universe? As there are demons in LA, and Devil City, I wondered if that was possible or probable. Any thoughts? Thanks


It'd kinda dramatically change the feel of Nightbane since the canon backstory and metaplot have got absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the Palladium Megaverse, and it feels like the Nightbane setting is only officially part of the Megaverse because there's a design rule saying all the game lines have to be, and that this isn't really a comfortable fit for what was clearly intended to be an isolated standalone setting. Just as an example that's relevant to your crossover idea, the demons in the Nightbane setting aren't actually from Hades or Dyval, and I'm pretty sure that their home dimension of the Netherworld isn't known or talked about in the rest of the megaverse.

Basically if you're running a transdimensional campaign and you just want to pop into the Nightbane setting for a change of scenery then everything'll be fine and you won't have to worry too much about how to make it work. But if you're dropping a Minion Wars event into a Nightbane campaign, you're basically turning it into a crossover game and making some hella big changes, so you'll want to figure out the best way of fitting everything together.

_________________
Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:33 am
  

User avatar
Adventurer

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:32 am
Posts: 642
Location: Great Britain
Just a quick comment for those who say that the demons from Nightbane are unconnected to the rest of the Palladium Megaverse - it does say specifically that Helldancer, the demon lord in league with Lilith, is loyal to Modeus (Lord of Hades).

Having said that, I do like to think that the demons presented in Nightlands are from a different plane, as they are not presented in any of the other Palladium lines. Perhaps they are from another part of 'The Netherworld' over which Modeus has influence?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:10 am
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Soldier of Od wrote:
Just a quick comment for those who say that the demons from Nightbane are unconnected to the rest of the Palladium Megaverse - it does say specifically that Helldancer, the demon lord in league with Lilith, is loyal to Modeus (Lord of Hades).

Having said that, I do like to think that the demons presented in Nightlands are from a different plane, as they are not presented in any of the other Palladium lines. Perhaps they are from another part of 'The Netherworld' over which Modeus has influence?


Just to note, nothing said that the demon lord that Lillith was negotiating with was actually one of the Red Flame Demons. as near as I can tell, the Nightbane dimension has it's own sub-dimension of demons that may or may not be related to the settings history in some way.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:38 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Rallan wrote:
Absolem wrote:
Has anyone have any thoughts concerning an adventure where the Minion Wars makes a foray nito the Nightbane universe? As there are demons in LA, and Devil City, I wondered if that was possible or probable. Any thoughts? Thanks


It'd kinda dramatically change the feel of Nightbane since the canon backstory and metaplot have got absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the Palladium Megaverse, and it feels like the Nightbane setting is only officially part of the Megaverse because there's a design rule saying all the game lines have to be, and that this isn't really a comfortable fit for what was clearly intended to be an isolated standalone setting. Just as an example that's relevant to your crossover idea, the demons in the Nightbane setting aren't actually from Hades or Dyval, and I'm pretty sure that their home dimension of the Netherworld isn't known or talked about in the rest of the megaverse.

Basically if you're running a transdimensional campaign and you just want to pop into the Nightbane setting for a change of scenery then everything'll be fine and you won't have to worry too much about how to make it work. But if you're dropping a Minion Wars event into a Nightbane campaign, you're basically turning it into a crossover game and making some hella big changes, so you'll want to figure out the best way of fitting everything together.



Please read page 128 of "Nightbane Worldbook 2:Nightlands". Dyval and Hades are part of the "Netherworld". They are just not where ALL demons and deevals come from.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:05 am
  

Champion

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 2794
Absolem wrote:
Please read page 128 of "Nightbane Worldbook 2:Nightlands". Dyval and Hades are part of the "Netherworld". They are just not where ALL demons and deevals come from.


And yet nothing from Dyval or Hades appears in the Nightbane setting, and nothing from the Netherworld appears in any other Palladium setting. Nightbane books occasionally have crossover notes buried in the GM's section, but it would take a really weird reading of the text to suggest that Nightbane is meant as anything other than a standalone setting. Not just because there's no canon storyline links between Nightbane and everything else, but because a lot of the GM stuff on optional crossovers deliberately makes it hard to bring stuff from other settings into Nightbane.

Like I said earlier, Nightbane Earth is said to exist in the Megaverse because all the games have to be that way, not because it makes sense for the Nightbane setting. And when you look at the setting it looks ridiculously isolated. Nobody else ever seems to have heard of the Dark or the Nightlords or the Nightbane or the Guardians or the Reshapers or the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. None of the factions in the last sentence have been mentioned anywhere else as interdimensional explorer/conquestor factions. None of the races in the Astral Plane in the Nightbane setting seem to crop up anywhere else, or vice versa. Demons from Hades and Dyval are unknown in the Nightbane setting, and demons from the Netherworld are unknown everywhere else. Nobody anywhere else has heard of the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. Dimension-travelling races like the True Atlanteans, Dragons, Dimensional Raiders, Brodkil, minions of Atlantis, and so on and so forth haven't discovered the Nightbane setting. And so on and so forth.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that Nightbane was meant to be a completely self-contained standalone setting that only got a token "Part Of The Palladium Megaverse(TM)!" addendum for the same reason that System Failure did.

_________________
Image


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:04 am
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Rallan wrote:
Absolem wrote:
Please read page 128 of "Nightbane Worldbook 2:Nightlands". Dyval and Hades are part of the "Netherworld". They are just not where ALL demons and deevals come from.


And yet nothing from Dyval or Hades appears in the Nightbane setting, and nothing from the Netherworld appears in any other Palladium setting. Nightbane books occasionally have crossover notes buried in the GM's section, but it would take a really weird reading of the text to suggest that Nightbane is meant as anything other than a standalone setting. Not just because there's no canon storyline links between Nightbane and everything else, but because a lot of the GM stuff on optional crossovers deliberately makes it hard to bring stuff from other settings into Nightbane.

Like I said earlier, Nightbane Earth is said to exist in the Megaverse because all the games have to be that way, not because it makes sense for the Nightbane setting. And when you look at the setting it looks ridiculously isolated. Nobody else ever seems to have heard of the Dark or the Nightlords or the Nightbane or the Guardians or the Reshapers or the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. None of the factions in the last sentence have been mentioned anywhere else as interdimensional explorer/conquestor factions. None of the races in the Astral Plane in the Nightbane setting seem to crop up anywhere else, or vice versa. Demons from Hades and Dyval are unknown in the Nightbane setting, and demons from the Netherworld are unknown everywhere else. Nobody anywhere else has heard of the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. Dimension-travelling races like the True Atlanteans, Dragons, Dimensional Raiders, Brodkil, minions of Atlantis, and so on and so forth haven't discovered the Nightbane setting. And so on and so forth.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that Nightbane was meant to be a completely self-contained standalone setting that only got a token "Part Of The Palladium Megaverse(TM)!" addendum for the same reason that System Failure did.


Then explain why there is a book called Dark Conversions with Nightbane/Nightlords conversions for Rifts, or was it done just because? System Failure is not presently being supported. Nightbane is. If you have an issue, say that. Not opinion on unsupported information. It isnt there because it hasnt been written. Dont be a fanboy. Its unbecoming to be that closed minded. Whether it is thought prudent or not, I was looking for assistance on an idea. I am sorry only one other saw it feasible. Creativity is what will keep pb moving and succeeding.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:49 pm
  

User avatar
Palladium Books® Freelance Writer

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 3486
Location: Pasco, WA, USA
Comment: For the glory of Zeon and Zerebus, Sieg Zeon!

2D6 Palladium Forum History Geek Points
Absolem wrote:
Rallan wrote:
Absolem wrote:
Please read page 128 of "Nightbane Worldbook 2:Nightlands". Dyval and Hades are part of the "Netherworld". They are just not where ALL demons and deevals come from.


And yet nothing from Dyval or Hades appears in the Nightbane setting, and nothing from the Netherworld appears in any other Palladium setting. Nightbane books occasionally have crossover notes buried in the GM's section, but it would take a really weird reading of the text to suggest that Nightbane is meant as anything other than a standalone setting. Not just because there's no canon storyline links between Nightbane and everything else, but because a lot of the GM stuff on optional crossovers deliberately makes it hard to bring stuff from other settings into Nightbane.

Like I said earlier, Nightbane Earth is said to exist in the Megaverse because all the games have to be that way, not because it makes sense for the Nightbane setting. And when you look at the setting it looks ridiculously isolated. Nobody else ever seems to have heard of the Dark or the Nightlords or the Nightbane or the Guardians or the Reshapers or the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. None of the factions in the last sentence have been mentioned anywhere else as interdimensional explorer/conquestor factions. None of the races in the Astral Plane in the Nightbane setting seem to crop up anywhere else, or vice versa. Demons from Hades and Dyval are unknown in the Nightbane setting, and demons from the Netherworld are unknown everywhere else. Nobody anywhere else has heard of the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. Dimension-travelling races like the True Atlanteans, Dragons, Dimensional Raiders, Brodkil, minions of Atlantis, and so on and so forth haven't discovered the Nightbane setting. And so on and so forth.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that Nightbane was meant to be a completely self-contained standalone setting that only got a token "Part Of The Palladium Megaverse(TM)!" addendum for the same reason that System Failure did.


Then explain why there is a book called Dark Conversions with Nightbane/Nightlords conversions for Rifts, or was it done just because? System Failure is not presently being supported. Nightbane is. If you have an issue, say that. Not opinion on unsupported information. It isnt there because it hasnt been written. Dont be a fanboy. Its unbecoming to be that closed minded. Whether it is thought prudent or not, I was looking for assistance on an idea. I am sorry only one other saw it feasible. Creativity is what will keep pb moving and succeeding.


Also got the Nightbane adventure in the HU 2nd GM Guide (pg. 104).

_________________
Image

"Flandre, no Molotov cocktails indoors, please." - Hime from Princess Resurrection


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:01 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Rallan wrote:
Absolem wrote:
Please read page 128 of "Nightbane Worldbook 2:Nightlands". Dyval and Hades are part of the "Netherworld". They are just not where ALL demons and deevals come from.


And yet nothing from Dyval or Hades appears in the Nightbane setting, and nothing from the Netherworld appears in any other Palladium setting. Nightbane books occasionally have crossover notes buried in the GM's section, but it would take a really weird reading of the text to suggest that Nightbane is meant as anything other than a standalone setting. Not just because there's no canon storyline links between Nightbane and everything else, but because a lot of the GM stuff on optional crossovers deliberately makes it hard to bring stuff from other settings into Nightbane.

Like I said earlier, Nightbane Earth is said to exist in the Megaverse because all the games have to be that way, not because it makes sense for the Nightbane setting. And when you look at the setting it looks ridiculously isolated. Nobody else ever seems to have heard of the Dark or the Nightlords or the Nightbane or the Guardians or the Reshapers or the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. None of the factions in the last sentence have been mentioned anywhere else as interdimensional explorer/conquestor factions. None of the races in the Astral Plane in the Nightbane setting seem to crop up anywhere else, or vice versa. Demons from Hades and Dyval are unknown in the Nightbane setting, and demons from the Netherworld are unknown everywhere else. Nobody anywhere else has heard of the Lost Race or the Formless Ones. Dimension-travelling races like the True Atlanteans, Dragons, Dimensional Raiders, Brodkil, minions of Atlantis, and so on and so forth haven't discovered the Nightbane setting. And so on and so forth.

It doesn't take a genius to figure that Nightbane was meant to be a completely self-contained standalone setting that only got a token "Part Of The Palladium Megaverse(TM)!" addendum for the same reason that System Failure did.


There's actually a nightbane sorcerrer (explicitly from the Nightbane setting) as a prominent public member of the Kingsdale mage guild and ruling council: although it does say most people have no idea what kind of being she is. I think it's the only example, though.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:33 pm
  

User avatar
Demon Lord Extraordinaire

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:28 pm
Posts: 6298
Location: Apocrypha
Comment: You probably think this comment is about you, don't you?
Absolem wrote:
Then explain why there is a book called Dark Conversions with Nightbane/Nightlords conversions for Rifts, or was it done just because?


Because PB figured that lots of people would want to play a nightbane in Rifts, and PB needed to justify having split the original CB1 into two books.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:51 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
actually, the only reason they decided to exclude nightbane was due to contractual obligations they had with the movie rights.

As for the Nightbane universe, I believe the cosmology is more greecian/sumerian/ then the standard Palladium faire.
The Nightlords are basically what the Atlanteans ended up becoming when they became Evil and followed the Dark.
The Lightlands are basically Ephemerally heaven and the domain of the gods of light...
The Formless ones are the Banes and Reshapers...Banes being slain formless ones...

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:21 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Rappanui wrote:
actually, the only reason they decided to exclude nightbane was due to contractual obligations they had with the movie rights.

As for the Nightbane universe, I believe the cosmology is more greecian/sumerian/ then the standard Palladium faire.
The Nightlords are basically what the Atlanteans ended up becoming when they became Evil and followed the Dark.
The Lightlands are basically Ephemerally heaven and the domain of the gods of light...
The Formless ones are the Banes and Reshapers...Banes being slain formless ones...


Atlanteans? Is that Carella secret knowledge? I like it. The other books, especially Shadow of Light go a very different way.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:39 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
yes, according to CJ, the Nightlords were the Elder Sorcerors from when the atlanteans were young. Except that they discovered the dark, and slew their own civilization to reach their godlike status.


the bit about the formless ones and banes is what he intended.


Shadows of light went it's own way because they wanted to tie in the gods of light and dark.

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:42 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Rappanui wrote:
yes, according to CJ, the Nightlords were the Elder Sorcerors from when the atlanteans were young. Except that they discovered the dark, and slew their own civilization to reach their godlike status.


the bit about the formless ones and banes is what he intended.


Shadows of light went it's own way because they wanted to tie in the gods of light and dark.


Did he ever say anything about Shadow Warlocks?

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:08 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
Kevin hassal wrote through the glass darkly, So I'd ask what he intended for them.
CJ did not have anything to do with that book, and none of his other projects had living magic, that' wasn't part of his cosmology.

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:37 am
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Rappanui wrote:
Kevin hassal wrote through the glass darkly, So I'd ask what he intended for them.
CJ did not have anything to do with that book, and none of his other projects had living magic, that' wasn't part of his cosmology.


Shadow Warlocks are from Nightlands, which was definatly written by CJ.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:52 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
I never thought about it, They are Linked to the Nightlands, Not the Dark. I would call them dangerous since they are likely to learn the rituals to bind nightbane. I can't really say what cj thought about them, although ... I guess he viewed them as the good guy versions of necromancers,he's so fond of using. (Spiritualists, in his case).

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Offline
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:11 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7019
Location: Pyramid
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Soldier of Od wrote:
Just a quick comment for those who say that the demons from Nightbane are unconnected to the rest of the Palladium Megaverse - it does say specifically that Helldancer, the demon lord in league with Lilith, is loyal to Modeus (Lord of Hades).
The question though, is WHICH Modeus?

Is it the Demon Lord in Dragons and Gods living in the Hades that is the dark copy of the Palladium World?

Or is it the alien intelligence "Asmodeus" (he's called this in Pantheons, see Xolotl and the mention of he and Quetzalcoatl hurting Mictla) from CB1 impersonating him in Rifts Earth? Much like Mephisto also has an AI impersonator.

I'd probably rule with it being the Rifts version or some other version that's messing with NB, as opposed to the D+G one involved in the Minion War.

The fact we have at least 2 different sets of Hades beings (for example, Rifts Mictla is male, PF Mictla is female) and PF's Hades itself being a dark mirror of the Palladium world brings a lot of thought forth regarding 'Nightlands' and how they work, and what dopplegangers are.

What happens if a Nightbane uses 'mirrorwalk' on any planet besides Nightbane Earth, for example?

_________________
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:58 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Tor wrote:
Soldier of Od wrote:
Just a quick comment for those who say that the demons from Nightbane are unconnected to the rest of the Palladium Megaverse - it does say specifically that Helldancer, the demon lord in league with Lilith, is loyal to Modeus (Lord of Hades).
The question though, is WHICH Modeus?

Is it the Demon Lord in Dragons and Gods living in the Hades that is the dark copy of the Palladium World?

Or is it the alien intelligence "Asmodeus" (he's called this in Pantheons, see Xolotl and the mention of he and Quetzalcoatl hurting Mictla) from CB1 impersonating him in Rifts Earth? Much like Mephisto also has an AI impersonator.

I'd probably rule with it being the Rifts version or some other version that's messing with NB, as opposed to the D+G one involved in the Minion War.

The fact we have at least 2 different sets of Hades beings (for example, Rifts Mictla is male, PF Mictla is female) and PF's Hades itself being a dark mirror of the Palladium world brings a lot of thought forth regarding 'Nightlands' and how they work, and what dopplegangers are.

What happens if a Nightbane uses 'mirrorwalk' on any planet besides Nightbane Earth, for example?

Asmoseus is a poser. Modeus, the ruler in Hades. I would think that a game written in 1995 would have the fanboyitis bled out of it and be as compatible as Phaseworld to the megaverse. What is really the fear? I asked for ideas, and a few have given it, and I appreciate it. The rest are fearmongers who cannot think past the pages they want to read. This company will fail, PERIOD, if stifled, fanboy mentality does not go away. If Kevin is given the room to produce content for the masses, not content for the few, he will spend, until he retires or dies trying, to please the plebes...that's us.

On another note, I played with the idea of Nightlands on other planets. I used the concept of everything is an opposite, but, as there are no Nightlords that came over, it worked more like Star Trek "Mirror,Mirror". Made for great "oh, crap" gaming.


          Top  
 
Offline
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:56 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7019
Location: Pyramid
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Not sure what you mean about fanboyitis here. While the (As)modeus in CB1 is indeed (like the other Mephisto) a poser, he's a pretty powerful one. He has psionics, for example, whereas the PalladiuModeus doesn't have any. The CB1 male Mictla is also pretty intense compared to PalladiuMictla. Check out the attacks per melee for example :)

I don't understand what you mean about fearmongering either. The Minion War takes place all over the Megaverse. There's a spell in Rifts England (Temporal) called ID self. That spell is potentially more frightening than the Doppleganger spell in terms of what it means regarding multiple universes, and multiple versions of the same characters.

That there's more than 1 Mictla or Modeus isn't at all shocking, and it actually makes the Minion War between (THIS) Hades and Dyval all the more complex and intriguing.

_________________
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:47 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Tor wrote:
Not sure what you mean about fanboyitis here. While the (As)modeus in CB1 is indeed (like the other Mephisto) a poser, he's a pretty powerful one. He has psionics, for example, whereas the PalladiuModeus doesn't have any. The CB1 male Mictla is also pretty intense compared to PalladiuMictla. Check out the attacks per melee for example :)

I don't understand what you mean about fearmongering either. The Minion War takes place all over the Megaverse. There's a spell in Rifts England (Temporal) called ID self. That spell is potentially more frightening than the Doppleganger spell in terms of what it means regarding multiple universes, and multiple versions of the same characters.

That there's more than 1 Mictla or Modeus isn't at all shocking, and it actually makes the Minion War between (THIS) Hades and Dyval all the more complex and intriguing.

What does THIS Hades and Dyval mean? Is it that the term "The Netherworld" is not used elsewhere? What other books has Carella published for PB? Are you suggesting it shouldn't be tried or is there a suggestion in your verbiage I am not getting?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:59 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
In Rifts there is Modeus of Hades, the alien intelligence, and Palladium fantasy version. I would go with he's aligned with the Rifts One.
Considering the Empire of the sun, and Pantheons of the megaverse generally ignore anything from palladum fantasy.

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Offline
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:50 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7019
Location: Pyramid
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Absolem wrote:
What does THIS Hades and Dyval mean?
It means whichever versions of Hades and Dyval are having the minion war. There is more than one Hades and Dyval, just like there's more than one version of pretty much any reality. This is established in both Rifts England and prior to that in Transdimensional TMNT.

Many of the death gods in Pantheons of the Megaverse are mentioned as cohabitating Hades. I don't have the Hades sourcebook yet, but I'm assuming it focuses only on the PF's demon lords and not Hades Aidoneous (the greek god of death), Yama, Kali, Ereshkigal, etc. If they don't inhabit Palladium's dark mirrorworld, they inhabit an alternate dimension also termed Hades.

Absolem wrote:
Is it that the term "The Netherworld" is not used elsewhere?
I don't know. I don't recall seeing the specific term duplicated but I have seen similar ones (like 'Netherrealms').

Absolem wrote:
What other books has Carella published for PB?
Besides Nightbane? Just looking at some Rifts books I have lying around: Mercenaries, Juicer Uprising, South Americas, Underseas, Phase World, Pantheons.

One of the characters Carella made in Pantheons (Loki G) is referenced in Nightlands, actually, as the guy who misled Ashtart.

Absolem wrote:
Are you suggesting it shouldn't be tried or is there a suggestion in your verbiage I am not getting?
I'm not sure what you're asking about trying, but I'm never against trying anything. I just wasn't sure what 'fanboyitis' was directed at.

Rappanui wrote:
In Rifts there is Modeus of Hades, the alien intelligence, and Palladium fantasy version. I would go with he's aligned with the Rifts One.
IT's a possibility, but they could just as easily be competitors. I believe in D+G it mentions that Mephisto the Deevil Lord would be pissed to know about his own impersonator. The (As)modeus AI is pretty powerful, and he's trying to rule over the same megaverse full of demons and stuff.

Part of the trouble with PF2nd Ed's stats for demons is you can tell they're pretty much copied over from Rifts CB1 without much of a thought for the planned changes for the lords in D+G.

For example, if you read PF2's stats for Magots, it will mention that they are minions of Mictla the Devourer (as per CB1). Yet in D+G, it is mentioned that the Lord of the Magots is actually that grim-reaper looking fellow who invented the deific sacrifice option for greater demons. His name slips the mind, but he's the guy that Hades Aidoneus apparently beat up for crossing into the Greek's Tartarus territory without permission.

_________________
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:19 am
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Tor wrote:
Absolem wrote:
What does THIS Hades and Dyval mean?
It means whichever versions of Hades and Dyval are having the minion war. There is more than one Hades and Dyval, just like there's more than one version of pretty much any reality. This is established in both Rifts England and prior to that in Transdimensional TMNT.

Many of the death gods in Pantheons of the Megaverse are mentioned as cohabitating Hades. I don't have the Hades sourcebook yet, but I'm assuming it focuses only on the PF's demon lords and not Hades Aidoneous (the greek god of death), Yama, Kali, Ereshkigal, etc. If they don't inhabit Palladium's dark mirrorworld, they inhabit an alternate dimension also termed Hades.

Absolem wrote:
Is it that the term "The Netherworld" is not used elsewhere?
I don't know. I don't recall seeing the specific term duplicated but I have seen similar ones (like 'Netherrealms').

Absolem wrote:
What other books has Carella published for PB?
Besides Nightbane? Just looking at some Rifts books I have lying around: Mercenaries, Juicer Uprising, South Americas, Underseas, Phase World, Pantheons.

One of the characters Carella made in Pantheons (Loki G) is referenced in Nightlands, actually, as the guy who misled Ashtart.

Absolem wrote:
Are you suggesting it shouldn't be tried or is there a suggestion in your verbiage I am not getting?
I'm not sure what you're asking about trying, but I'm never against trying anything. I just wasn't sure what 'fanboyitis' was directed at.

Rappanui wrote:
In Rifts there is Modeus of Hades, the alien intelligence, and Palladium fantasy version. I would go with he's aligned with the Rifts One.
IT's a possibility, but they could just as easily be competitors. I believe in D+G it mentions that Mephisto the Deevil Lord would be pissed to know about his own impersonator. The (As)modeus AI is pretty powerful, and he's trying to rule over the same megaverse full of demons and stuff.

Part of the trouble with PF2nd Ed's stats for demons is you can tell they're pretty much copied over from Rifts CB1 without much of a thought for the planned changes for the lords in D+G.

For example, if you read PF2's stats for Magots, it will mention that they are minions of Mictla the Devourer (as per CB1). Yet in D+G, it is mentioned that the Lord of the Magots is actually that grim-reaper looking fellow who invented the deific sacrifice option for greater demons. His name slips the mind, but he's the guy that Hades Aidoneus apparently beat up for crossing into the Greek's Tartarus territory without permission.


What I am saying is, how does that enter into a Minion Wars adventure in the Nightbane universe? DG and PM are a convoluted mess of trivia. Alot of it flows as if written on an all night bender...that, or severely over edited. My trust level is tenuous. What ideas would you have for an adventure of what I am referring to?


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:56 am
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Honestly, the minion war the way it's been set up elsewhere would completely shatter the Nightbane setting for a simple reason:

The entire basis of the current power balance is this: The Nightlords keep the world at large from realizing the supernatural exsits. Yes, there are incidents frequently, but through control of the media and propaganda, are able to get most of the world to cover their ears, close their eyes and pretend nothing's happening to stay happy.

If the minion war breaks out, and demons and devils start duking it out in a huge way, that shatters. The anti-nightlord elements manage to shift the blame on the goverment.

Remember, the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords, and we also know that NATO/Spook Squad has technological devices for entering the nightlands.

So pretty much the minion war would simply force the simmering kettle that is the Nightbane-verse to the bursting point. The nightlords have no choice but to defend themselves openly, the cover is blown, and things devolve into global war. Either the militaries of the major powers are successful in kicking Demons and Nightlords out alike, or else another world is damned as demons of one sort or another enslave all.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:59 am
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
[quote="Nekira Sudacne"]Honestly, the minion war the way it's been set up elsewhere would completely shatter the Nightbane setting for a simple reason:

The entire basis of the current power balance is this: The Nightlords keep the world at large from realizing the supernatural exsits. Yes, there are incidents frequently, but through control of the media and propaganda, are able to get most of the world to cover their ears, close their eyes and pretend nothing's happening to stay happy.

If the minion war breaks out, and demons and devils start duking it out in a huge way, that shatters. The anti-nightlord elements manage to shift the blame on the goverment.

Remember, the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords, and we also know that NATO/Spook Squad has technological devices for entering the nightlands.

So pretty much the minion war would simply force the simmering kettle that is the Nightbane-verse to the bursting point. The nightlords have no choice but to defend themselves openly, the cover is blown, and things devolve into global war. Either the militaries of the major powers are successful in kicking Demons and Nightlords out alike, or else another world is damned as demons of one sort or another enslave all.[/quote]

You went to the worst case scenario. They can be covert in heroes unlimited, but not nightbane. They can't go to the nightlands first. They can't use Lilith to gain audience with Molok. They cant do their own infiltrating. Set traps to imprison the nightlords.,etc...


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:07 am
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Absolem wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Honestly, the minion war the way it's been set up elsewhere would completely shatter the Nightbane setting for a simple reason:

The entire basis of the current power balance is this: The Nightlords keep the world at large from realizing the supernatural exsits. Yes, there are incidents frequently, but through control of the media and propaganda, are able to get most of the world to cover their ears, close their eyes and pretend nothing's happening to stay happy.

If the minion war breaks out, and demons and devils start duking it out in a huge way, that shatters. The anti-nightlord elements manage to shift the blame on the goverment.

Remember, the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords, and we also know that NATO/Spook Squad has technological devices for entering the nightlands.

So pretty much the minion war would simply force the simmering kettle that is the Nightbane-verse to the bursting point. The nightlords have no choice but to defend themselves openly, the cover is blown, and things devolve into global war. Either the militaries of the major powers are successful in kicking Demons and Nightlords out alike, or else another world is damned as demons of one sort or another enslave all.


You went to the worst case scenario. They can be covert in heroes unlimited, but not nightbane. They can't go to the nightlands first. They can't use Lilith to gain audience with Molok. They cant do their own infiltrating. Set traps to imprison the nightlords.,etc...


Covert in Heros Unlimited is not the same thing as Covert in Nightbane. In HU, People area already inured to magic, the supernatural, and freaks with superpowers. All they have to do is hide the demonic influence behind those things. Here, they'd have to hide that that's happening at all, and while they can (and do) do that on a small scale, if the minion war does try to go that low a level, I don't think it'd honestly qualify as the "Minion war", all you'd have done is add two additional demon factions to the current cloak and dagger deal going down.

EDIT: and it's made quite clear that the dark and Moloch are implacable enemies of all demons. All lillith getting them an audience would do is make him destroy Lillith and whatever envoy they sent.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Offline
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:57 am
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7019
Location: Pyramid
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Absolem wrote:
how does that enter into a Minion Wars adventure in the Nightbane universe?
It enters into it because whether the Modeus dealing with Lilith is the same Modeus engaged in the Minion War, or a different one, is somewhat of an important issue regarding which side Lilith might take, and which side Deevils may take.

Absolem wrote:
DG and PM are a convoluted mess of trivia. Alot of it flows as if written on an all night bender...that, or severely over edited. My trust level is tenuous. What ideas would you have for an adventure of what I am referring to?
Be that as it may, PotM is canon in Nightbane because Loki-G, a character in it, is referenced as having interacted with Ashtart. It's written by the same author who created Nightbane. So trust it we must. DaG is a slightly different matter, as it's set in Palladium and written by different authors, but it is a source of information regarding the Demon/Deevil Lords engaged in the Minion War.

It's just not clear if those are the same ones, or their CB1 imposters, who are engaged with the CB2/Nightbane people.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords
This won't do much good if the Nightlords are hiding on earth though :D

Would suck for the reserves of hounds/hunters they're holding in the Nightlands though.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the dark and Moloch are implacable enemies of all demons. All lillith getting them an audience would do is make him destroy Lillith and whatever envoy they sent.
I always thought that was a little ambiguous. Foulseed seems to think Moloch's aware and tolerates the demon-consorting, and the Dark stopped at killing Lilith's proxy Astral Avatar rather than eliminating her as well.

Perhaps they're just overly cautious and putting up an extreme facade? I don't see why either dark/Moloch (or Mocker) would be so utterly opposed to demons.

But even if that's the case, what of devils?

_________________
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:04 am
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Tor wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords
This won't do much good if the Nightlords are hiding on earth though :D

Would suck for the reserves of hounds/hunters they're holding in the Nightlands though.


Sure, but that statement wasn't exlusiary. the militaries of the world can beat the nightlords, this is cannonacly stated. nuclear weapons are just one thing the nightlords have no counter for, it's not the only means by which to accomplish it.

Quote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the dark and Moloch are implacable enemies of all demons. All lillith getting them an audience would do is make him destroy Lillith and whatever envoy they sent.
I always thought that was a little ambiguous. Foulseed seems to think Moloch's aware and tolerates the demon-consorting, and the Dark stopped at killing Lilith's proxy Astral Avatar rather than eliminating her as well.

Perhaps they're just overly cautious and putting up an extreme facade? I don't see why either dark/Moloch (or Mocker) would be so utterly opposed to demons.

But even if that's the case, what of devils?


Nothing was ambiguous about it. Lord Foulseed is not noted for being an expert on nightlords, however much he may fancy himself as such.

And why would they be? Can be any number of reasons. Competition is one obvious one: In the end, only one of them can enslave humanity. and they could very not be interested in "Well lets work togeather until we beat mutual enemies", instead going "Why? I can beat you both right now, speaking of, *fwooosh*". Arrogance is noted to be high on their traits after all.

And lastly, it's impossible to say why the dark is because we're deliberately told nothing about the dark. WHY does the dark hate all demons? who knows. could be a zillion reasons and past greivances. at the same time "The dark hates demons" isn't an ambiguous statement, he hates demons and won't work with them. Why honestly dosn't matter. I encourage my villians to have irrational prejudices.

As for Deevils, honestly, I don't think any distinction is drawn. I can't think of a single instance of anyone going "Well demons are the epitomie of evil and betrayal, but deevils are allright with me". Frankly, I really think the only people in the megaverse who actually care about the distinction between deevils and demons are the deevils and demons themselves.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:10 am
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Tor wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords
This won't do much good if the Nightlords are hiding on earth though :D

Would suck for the reserves of hounds/hunters they're holding in the Nightlands though.


Sure, but that statement wasn't exlusiary. the militaries of the world can beat the nightlords, this is cannonacly stated. nuclear weapons are just one thing the nightlords have no counter for, it's not the only means by which to accomplish it.

Quote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the dark and Moloch are implacable enemies of all demons. All lillith getting them an audience would do is make him destroy Lillith and whatever envoy they sent.
I always thought that was a little ambiguous. Foulseed seems to think Moloch's aware and tolerates the demon-consorting, and the Dark stopped at killing Lilith's proxy Astral Avatar rather than eliminating her as well.

Perhaps they're just overly cautious and putting up an extreme facade? I don't see why either dark/Moloch (or Mocker) would be so utterly opposed to demons.

But even if that's the case, what of devils?


Nothing was ambiguous about it. Lord Foulseed is not noted for being an expert on nightlords, however much he may fancy himself as such.

And why would they be? Can be any number of reasons. Competition is one obvious one: In the end, only one of them can enslave humanity. and they could very not be interested in "Well lets work togeather until we beat mutual enemies", instead going "Why? I can beat you both right now, speaking of, *fwooosh*". Arrogance is noted to be high on their traits after all.

And lastly, it's impossible to say why the dark is because we're deliberately told nothing about the dark. WHY does the dark hate all demons? who knows. could be a zillion reasons and past greivances. at the same time "The dark hates demons" isn't an ambiguous statement, he hates demons and won't work with them. Why honestly dosn't matter. I encourage my villians to have irrational prejudices.

As for Deevils, honestly, I don't think any distinction is drawn. I can't think of a single instance of anyone going "Well demons are the epitomie of evil and betrayal, but deevils are allright with me". Frankly, I really think the only people in the megaverse who actually care about the distinction between deevils and demons are the deevils and demons themselves.


Lord Foulseed IS a nightlord, albeit renegade. "Lord Foulseed is not noted for being an expert on nightlords, however much he may fancy himself as such."? Dude. Ok, now for a question of status quo. Will the Minion War have a lasting impact on the megaverse? If so, why would doing anything in a NB game such a sacrilege if it is going to be changed anyway? It does not have to be earth shaking. An adventure where the nightlords get sucked into a conflict with the Deevils in the Nightlands, mitigated by trickery from the demons, and groups like the Atlantis Foundation or the Beachhead location, or the Warcamp, encountering the deevils, or inadvertantly stumping the demon plan,
while a) letting them know there is something out there to explore, and giving the group a legitimate opportunity to go outside Nightbane. Possible going to Wormwood, or Chaos Earth, or HU as a bounce point. Or, it can just be another encounter. As a byproduct, there are earthquakes and erupting volcanoes, and tidal events, globally, and/or sporadically on earth. These events can be either explained away or spawn more public research. Or, as is referrenced in a Wander's Diary, it could be a move towards the "perfect future" where the Nightlords lose and the the populace does not try to kill off the nightbane, too. These are my thoughts about an adventure.and by the by, Helldancer is listed a Demon lord working for the lords of Hades.."A creature of hellfire and damnation, this monster has spent millennia
serving his black-hearted masters, the Lords of Hades." "He has traveled
throughout the Megaverse and seen places of magic where dwarves
and elves fought mighty wars, and places of technology where giant robots
exchange lasers and missiles, and places in between. Above all, he
has brought chaos and destruction wherever he has gone. And now, this
powerful and cruel monster is in the unique position of acting as a mediator
between two ancient and terrible evils
. Helldancer works for both
Lady Lilith and Modeus, the Lord of Hades, while trying to negotiate a
treaty between the two. However, his true loyalties lie with Modeus, so
should the ruler of Hades order Helldancer to betray Lilith, he will do
so without hesitation." This does not sound like he works for a poser. This seems fairly straightforward.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:52 pm
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
The minion war is a war that started because of the palladium deities began invading other realms. Rifts has it's own versions of their dieties, and are not necesarrily embroiled in the same way.


the Minion war vs Nightlands : The nightlords annihilate the plane of existance of the first army that dares mass envade their nightlands.

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:42 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Absolem wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Tor wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the reason that the nightlords are hiding is because it's assumed if the militaries of the world woke up and started slaying their imposter officer crops, they could invade the nightlands and attack the nightlords directly, and likely win. We KNOW nuclear weapons can oneshot nightlords
This won't do much good if the Nightlords are hiding on earth though :D

Would suck for the reserves of hounds/hunters they're holding in the Nightlands though.


Sure, but that statement wasn't exlusiary. the militaries of the world can beat the nightlords, this is cannonacly stated. nuclear weapons are just one thing the nightlords have no counter for, it's not the only means by which to accomplish it.

Quote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
the dark and Moloch are implacable enemies of all demons. All lillith getting them an audience would do is make him destroy Lillith and whatever envoy they sent.
I always thought that was a little ambiguous. Foulseed seems to think Moloch's aware and tolerates the demon-consorting, and the Dark stopped at killing Lilith's proxy Astral Avatar rather than eliminating her as well.

Perhaps they're just overly cautious and putting up an extreme facade? I don't see why either dark/Moloch (or Mocker) would be so utterly opposed to demons.

But even if that's the case, what of devils?


Nothing was ambiguous about it. Lord Foulseed is not noted for being an expert on nightlords, however much he may fancy himself as such.

And why would they be? Can be any number of reasons. Competition is one obvious one: In the end, only one of them can enslave humanity. and they could very not be interested in "Well lets work togeather until we beat mutual enemies", instead going "Why? I can beat you both right now, speaking of, *fwooosh*". Arrogance is noted to be high on their traits after all.

And lastly, it's impossible to say why the dark is because we're deliberately told nothing about the dark. WHY does the dark hate all demons? who knows. could be a zillion reasons and past greivances. at the same time "The dark hates demons" isn't an ambiguous statement, he hates demons and won't work with them. Why honestly dosn't matter. I encourage my villians to have irrational prejudices.

As for Deevils, honestly, I don't think any distinction is drawn. I can't think of a single instance of anyone going "Well demons are the epitomie of evil and betrayal, but deevils are allright with me". Frankly, I really think the only people in the megaverse who actually care about the distinction between deevils and demons are the deevils and demons themselves.


Lord Foulseed IS a nightlord, albeit renegade. "Lord Foulseed is not noted for being an expert on nightlords, however much he may fancy himself as such."? Dude.


Okay, somehow I remember Foulseed as being a Red Flame Demon Lord and not a nightlord. regardless, whatever he thinks about moloch and the other nightlords may well not be correct.

Quote:
Ok, now for a question of status quo. Will the Minion War have a lasting impact on the megaverse?


Maybe, maybe not. I'm not particuarlly attached to the metaplot.

Quote:
If so, why would doing anything in a NB game such a sacrilege if it is going to be changed anyway? It does not have to be earth shaking. An adventure where the nightlords get sucked into a conflict with the Deevils in the Nightlands, mitigated by trickery from the demons, and groups like the Atlantis Foundation or the Beachhead location, or the Warcamp, encountering the deevils, or inadvertantly stumping the demon plan, And I think that's the actual difference here. it's not that I think
while a) letting them know there is something out there to explore, and giving the group a legitimate opportunity to go outside Nightbane. Possible going to Wormwood, or Chaos Earth, or HU as a bounce point. Or, it can just be another encounter. As a byproduct, there are earthquakes and erupting volcanoes, and tidal events, globally, and/or sporadically on earth. These events can be either explained away or spawn more public research. Or, as is referrenced in a Wander's Diary, it could be a move towards the "perfect future" where the Nightlords lose and the the populace does not try to kill off the nightbane, too. These are my thoughts about an adventure.and by the by, Helldancer is listed a Demon lord working for the lords of Hades.."A creature of hellfire and damnation, this monster has spent millennia
serving his black-hearted masters, the Lords of Hades." "He has traveled
throughout the Megaverse and seen places of magic where dwarves
and elves fought mighty wars, and places of technology where giant robots
exchange lasers and missiles, and places in between. Above all, he
has brought chaos and destruction wherever he has gone. And now, this
powerful and cruel monster is in the unique position of acting as a mediator
between two ancient and terrible evils
. Helldancer works for both
Lady Lilith and Modeus, the Lord of Hades, while trying to negotiate a
treaty between the two. However, his true loyalties lie with Modeus, so
should the ruler of Hades order Helldancer to betray Lilith, he will do
so without hesitation." This does not sound like he works for a poser. This seems fairly straightforward.

[/quote]

Sure, i'm not aginst having demons be a major factor in a nightbane game, the point is when I think "Minion war", I think "Earth shaking", if it's NOT earth shaking, to me, it's not actually the minion war, and just another scheme by demons and deevils to increase their influence. ya know, the same kind of schemes they were running the whole time before the minion war.

And I think that's the major difference. I'm not saying "The demons can't be doing everything you just discribed", i'm saying "In my veiw, that's exactly what they've been doing all along, so that wouldn't be minion war stuff"

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:50 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Rappanui wrote:
The minion war is a war that started because of the palladium deities began invading other realms. Rifts has it's own versions of their dieties, and are not necesarrily embroiled in the same way.


the Minion war vs Nightlands : The nightlords annihilate the plane of existance of the first army that dares mass envade their nightlands.

Where can I find the origin of the Minion Wars? Not the most recent ones but what you are talking about..the palladium gods thing.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:37 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
Sure, i'm not aginst having demons be a major factor in a nightbane game, the point is when I think "Minion war", I think "Earth shaking", if it's NOT earth shaking, to me, it's not actually the minion war, and just another scheme by demons and deevils to increase their influence. ya know, the same kind of schemes they were running the whole time before the minion war.

And I think that's the major difference. I'm not saying "The demons can't be doing everything you just discribed", i'm saying "In my veiw, that's exactly what they've been doing all along, so that wouldn't be minion war stuff"[/quote]


I am wanting to have an adventure that can be impacting to the Nightbane universe, with potential to adjust the balance somewhat (nightlord minions suddenly on the decrease world wide<only noticable to psychics and mystics, and such> Possible events in other countries where there are actual witnesses to events/sightings that do not disappear or change within days of witnessing it.) A possible ray of hope, culminating in the planetary events from the Nightlands battles. Factions should see this as an opportunity to go on the offensive. It is a way for the players to feel like there is an end to the oppression. It is a tie-in to the Minion War, as it links the deevils/demons in conflict during this war.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:01 am
  

User avatar
Champion

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 2088
Absolem wrote:
Rappanui wrote:
The minion war is a war that started because of the palladium deities began invading other realms. Rifts has it's own versions of their dieties, and are not necesarrily embroiled in the same way.


the Minion war vs Nightlands : The nightlords annihilate the plane of existance of the first army that dares mass envade their nightlands.

Where can I find the origin of the Minion Wars? Not the most recent ones but what you are talking about..the palladium gods thing.



the origin of the minion war starts in Palladium World book: HADES
they then add the Counter attack in the Rifts book : DYVAL
(I say that because the First one is SDC and the other is a MDC setting book)
Essentially Some of the lower gods from both pantheons start trying to steal turf from the other.
it later broils out to UNiversal chaos as the pantheons mobilize entire planets for war.

_________________
Got 15 bucks? You get 50 baby cows in a box! Only at FORTRESS OF WHITE!


          Top  
 
Offline
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:13 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Posts: 7019
Location: Pyramid
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
As for Deevils, honestly, I don't think any distinction is drawn. I can't think of a single instance of anyone going "Well demons are the epitomie of evil and betrayal, but deevils are allright with me". Frankly, I really think the only people in the megaverse who actually care about the distinction between deevils and demons are the deevils and demons themselves.
One distinction I could see is that while Demons want to enslave humanity and get worshippers, reading Dragons and Gods I got some implications that Deevils don't care as much about presuming humanity, and might be all for killing them off and harvesting their PPE.

That makes me think that Moloch and the Dark, who want to eradicate humanity, might feel more of a kindship with Dyval, compared with Demons, who share Lilith's desire to protect humanity so that it can be exploited as servants/slaves.

Absolem wrote:
Helldancer works for both Lady Lilith and Modeus, the Lord of Hades, while trying to negotiate a treaty between the two. However, his true loyalties lie with Modeus, so should the ruler of Hades order Helldancer to betray Lilith, he will do so without hesitation." This does not sound like he works for a poser. This seems fairly straightforward.
There are at least two 'Modeus' entities with legions of demonic servants. 1 is the Aztec AI from CB1/2 who is also known as Asmodeus who rules a place called "Hades". The other is the PF Demon Lord who also has demon servants and rules a different realm ALSO called 'Hades' which in this case is the dark 'nightlands' -ish place that is a dark firey (unlike the Nightlands) shadowy copy of the Palladium World.

While the books do specify that the 'Mephisto' on Rifts is an 'imposter' of the PF version, we don't necessarily know that the Rifts (As)Modeus is an imposter of the Palladium one.

For all we know, that AI might be so ancient that it was around before the PF version of Modeus.

Both beings have demons as their minions though, so we don't really know which one Helldancer is working for. This is an important issue that clarifies how involved he would be in the Minion War. It's specific enough that the MW is between Palladium's Hades and the REAL Dyval (and not the Rifts Mephisto's fake Dyval).

I imagine the CB1 Mephisto of Rifts' Dyval and the CB1 (As)Modeus of Rifts' Hades LOVE the Minion War, because the Palladium's realms' lords are weakening each other, giving opportunity for the Rifts' versions to gain power. Which is probably why they're for the most part staying out of it.

_________________
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse


Last edited by Tor on Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:31 pm
  

User avatar
Megaversal® Ambassador

Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 pm
Posts: 3565
Location: Plymouth, CT
Comment: The silent thief of Rozrehxeson.
Reading this discussion made me think, what if "The Dark" as an entity was just an elaborate Deevil ruse? What if the true power behind the Nightlords were Deevil lords?

_________________
Zerebus: "I like MDC. MDC is a hundred times better than SDC."

kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."

Image

Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | New Temporal Magic
Rifts random encounters | New Elemental Magic | Lore: Superhuman

OK, Boomer.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:57 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Posts: 15389
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Tor wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
As for Deevils, honestly, I don't think any distinction is drawn. I can't think of a single instance of anyone going "Well demons are the epitomie of evil and betrayal, but deevils are allright with me". Frankly, I really think the only people in the megaverse who actually care about the distinction between deevils and demons are the deevils and demons themselves.
One distinction I could see is that while Demons want to enslave humanity and get worshippers, reading Dragons and Gods I got some implications that Deevils don't care as much about presuming humanity, and might be all for killing them off and harvesting their PPE.

That makes me think that Moloch and the Dark, who want to eradicate humanity, might feel more of a kindship with Dyval, compared with Demons, who share Lilith's desire to protect humanity so that it can be exploited as servants/slaves.


You kidding? deevils in palladium fantasy have far more widespread and organized cults than demons do. Heck, they outright took over the palladium fantasy world after the war with the old ones (Presumably while Lictalon had taken the army of light to hades to invade there for...reasons never explained), they conquered everything and spread their worship everywhere.

I want to repeat, the deevils successfully conquered palladia, and not only did they not kill off all mortals they made securing their worship about the only thing out of the deal they ever wanted in the first place.

_________________
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:13 pm
  

User avatar
Monk

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Posts: 15067
Location: Eastvale, calif
Absolem wrote:
Has anyone have any thoughts concerning an adventure where the Minion Wars makes a foray into the Nightbane universe? As there are demons in LA, and Devil City, I wondered if that was possible or probable. Any thoughts? Thanks

I would think the NightLords would squash any expedition into their playground pretty quickly.

_________________
Q's on this board need canon answers first for the question that was asked. Then you can post your own house rules listed as your house rules.
I say what the classes ARE even if the books mislabel them, so get over it.

Mostly I write out exactly what I mean, then sometimes get even more finicky.

My Artwork


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:22 pm
  

User avatar
D-Bee

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Pony Express, anyone?
Comment: You hit me in the ear!...Robert Paulson.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Absolem wrote:
Has anyone have any thoughts concerning an adventure where the Minion Wars makes a foray into the Nightbane universe? As there are demons in LA, and Devil City, I wondered if that was possible or probable. Any thoughts? Thanks

I would think the NightLords would squash any expedition into their playground pretty quickly.

Those of you with negative opinions seem as though you have not played the game or, in the way of a fanboy, act as though there is sacrilege in working outside the perceived parameters of the setting environment. Why such fearfulness in a game meant to address every setting? I have been running nightbane since 98 and never got the feeling of exclusivity..isolation, but not exclusivity. This event is megaverse encompassing. It should touch every major setting. Whether it has a major impact on the setting, or not, the world should be addressed. Everyone should come to the party.


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group