Nightbane Regeneration

[barna10]

I have to issue with the FAQ regarding Nightbane regeneration. The FAQ states that it's only in Rifts that the Facade regenerates, but I think the Nightbane Main Book refutes this.

It mentions under "The Natural Powers of the Nightbane" that "Some of these supernatural abilities are only available .. while in Morphus form. In other cases, the power .. is also available, in a weaker state, while in [the Facade]." Then "Supernatural Senses" mentions a difference between Morphus and Facade, and Mirror Walk mentions being only usable in Morphus form, but the section describing "Supernatural Attributes" does not distinguish between the Facade or the Morphus. Then, under "Attributes (Facade) it states that the attributes of the Facade are not supernatural, but it does not say that NOTHING about the Facade is supernatural! Obviously something about the Facade is "supernatural" sense it has "supernatural" senses!

The argument in the FAQ against the Facade regenerating is that the Facade form does not have supernatural attributes, so what? It obviously has supernatural qualities, so why not regeneration. Other abilities of the Nightbane are explicitly stated to NOT be present in the Facade. Regeneration is mentioned in the general which means it should be considered present in both the Morphus AND the Facade.

[Icefalcon]

I have the rule that they can regenerate in the Facade form.

[Nightmask]

There is mention of the facade being capable of acquiring bionics, like bionic limbs, which wouldn't be possible if the facade also regenerated. They magically disappear when in Morphus form and return when back in facade.

[barna10]

There is mention of the facade being capable of acquiring bionics, like bionic limbs, which wouldn't be possible if the facade also regenerated. They magically disappear when in Morphus form and return when back in facade.

I have seen where they can ecosystems/cybernetics, but NOT bionics. Do you have a source?

[Nightmask]

There is mention of the facade being capable of acquiring bionics, like bionic limbs, which wouldn't be possible if the facade also regenerated. They magically disappear when in Morphus form and return when back in facade.

I have seen where they can ecosystems/cybernetics, but NOT bionics. Do you have a source?

I tend to use 'bionics' interchangeably with 'cybernetics', since other than how much stronger the one is they're still basically the same thing (much like a Volkswagen Bug is still a car just like a luxury car is, one's just more powerful than the other). If Palladium has an explicit 'Bionics are too powerful to put into a facade but weaker Cybernetics is okay' restriction for the facade I'll adjust accordingly.

[barna10]

There is mention of the facade being capable of acquiring bionics, like bionic limbs, which wouldn't be possible if the facade also regenerated. They magically disappear when in Morphus form and return when back in facade.

I have seen where they can ecosystems/cybernetics, but NOT bionics. Do you have a source?

I tend to use 'bionics' interchangeably with 'cybernetics', since other than how much stronger the one is they're still basically the same thing (much like a Volkswagen Bug is still a car just like a luxury car is, one's just more powerful than the other). If Palladium has an explicit 'Bionics are too powerful to put into a facade but weaker Cybernetics is okay' restriction for the facade I'll adjust accordingly.

It's not the power of one over the other, it's that biosystems/cybernetics can be type-matched or even grown from the individual, hence why they AREN'T rejected by regeneration. Yes, functionally they are the same, but not under the hood.

[Nightmask]

There is mention of the facade being capable of acquiring bionics, like bionic limbs, which wouldn't be possible if the facade also regenerated. They magically disappear when in Morphus form and return when back in facade.

I have seen where they can ecosystems/cybernetics, but NOT bionics. Do you have a source?

I tend to use 'bionics' interchangeably with 'cybernetics', since other than how much stronger the one is they're still basically the same thing (much like a Volkswagen Bug is still a car just like a luxury car is, one's just more powerful than the other). If Palladium has an explicit 'Bionics are too powerful to put into a facade but weaker Cybernetics is okay' restriction for the facade I'll adjust accordingly.

It's not the power of one over the other, it's that biosystems/cybernetics can be type-matched or even grown from the individual, hence why they AREN'T rejected by regeneration. Yes, functionally they are the same, but not under the hood.

Biosystems may be functionally alive in that regard but Cybernetics aren't, a cybernetic eye is just that, a machine with no organic components like the biosystems.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I have to issue with the FAQ regarding Nightbane regeneration. The FAQ states that it's only in Rifts that the Facade regenerates, but I think the Nightbane Main Book refutes this.

It mentions under "The Natural Powers of the Nightbane" that "Some of these supernatural abilities are only available .. while in Morphus form. In other cases, the power .. is also available, in a weaker state, while in [the Facade]." Then "Supernatural Senses" mentions a difference between Morphus and Facade, and Mirror Walk mentions being only usable in Morphus form, but the section describing "Supernatural Attributes" does not distinguish between the Facade or the Morphus. Then, under "Attributes (Facade) it states that the attributes of the Facade are not supernatural, but it does not say that NOTHING about the Facade is supernatural! Obviously something about the Facade is "supernatural" sense it has "supernatural" senses!

The argument in the FAQ against the Facade regenerating is that the Facade form does not have supernatural attributes, so what? It obviously has supernatural qualities, so why not regeneration. Other abilities of the Nightbane are explicitly stated to NOT be present in the Facade. Regeneration is mentioned in the general which means it should be considered present in both the Morphus AND the Facade.

Something I wrote in the topic asking about wether or not FS magic works on NB that covers you gripe.

[yes, some of you might point out that in the RDC it says that NB facades have a X SDC per min. regen rate. However, since what is covered in the RDC is for what NB are In The Rifts Setting (bluntly: the x sdc per min. regen. for the facade is only in the rifts setting) in the NB setting they still only heal at the human rate, because that has not been changed in a NB book.]
(why saying it as x sdc per min, regen....cause I can't list it off the top of my head ATM & not getting the RDC out.)

[Yes, some might say that that the regen rate is not limited to the morphus in the NBMB. The facade is specifically limited to be Not SuperNatural. Thus except for the nightvision; which was specifically excepted; all the SN attributes are limited to the morphus. Yes, the RDC says different, but as with the above, what is said in the RDC is limited to the rifts setting.]

If you want to have the facade have a bio-regen in your own non-rifts games would be your prerogative as the GM of your own game. However, having the facade have a bio-regen outside of Rifts is not canon.

[barna10]

I have to issue with the FAQ regarding Nightbane regeneration. The FAQ states that it's only in Rifts that the Facade regenerates, but I think the Nightbane Main Book refutes this.

It mentions under "The Natural Powers of the Nightbane" that "Some of these supernatural abilities are only available .. while in Morphus form. In other cases, the power .. is also available, in a weaker state, while in [the Facade]." Then "Supernatural Senses" mentions a difference between Morphus and Facade, and Mirror Walk mentions being only usable in Morphus form, but the section describing "Supernatural Attributes" does not distinguish between the Facade or the Morphus. Then, under "Attributes (Facade) it states that the attributes of the Facade are not supernatural, but it does not say that NOTHING about the Facade is supernatural! Obviously something about the Facade is "supernatural" sense it has "supernatural" senses!

The argument in the FAQ against the Facade regenerating is that the Facade form does not have supernatural attributes, so what? It obviously has supernatural qualities, so why not regeneration. Other abilities of the Nightbane are explicitly stated to NOT be present in the Facade. Regeneration is mentioned in the general which means it should be considered present in both the Morphus AND the Facade.

Something I wrote in the topic asking about wether or not FS magic works on NB that covers you gripe.

[yes, some of you might point out that in the RDC it says that NB facades have a X SDC per min. regen rate. However, since what is covered in the RDC is for what NB are In The Rifts Setting (bluntly: the x sdc per min. regen. for the facade is only in the rifts setting) in the NB setting they still only heal at the human rate, because that has not been changed in a NB book.]
(why saying it as x sdc per min, regen....cause I can't list it off the top of my head ATM & not getting the RDC out.)

[Yes, some might say that that the regen rate is not limited to the morphus in the NBMB. The facade is specifically limited to be Not SuperNatural. Thus except for the nightvision; which was specifically excepted; all the SN attributes are limited to the morphus. Yes, the RDC says different, but as with the above, what is said in the RDC is limited to the rifts setting.]

If you want to have the facade have a bio-regen in your own non-rifts games would be your prerogative as the GM of your own game. However, having the facade have a bio-regen outside of Rifts is not canon.

Well,drewkitty, by your opinion, the Facade is not immune to mind control, transformation, vampires, etc. because none of those specifically mention the Facade either! I explained the logic behind WHY the Facade regenerates. It is supported by the text, your opinion is not supported by the text. You even quoted what I presented, but chose to ignore it...

Also, THERE IS NO NEED to change the NB book to state explicitly that the Facade regenerates because, as I stated, the wording and logic of the text clearly show that the Facade should regenerate.

Also, you are correct, supernatural attributes are limited to the Morphus. You are an individual that appreciates semantics, as am I. In Palladium, "Attributes" are specifically and clearly stated as being the eight Attributes (I.Q., M.E., M.A., etc) and NOT any characteristic or ability of a character! So, the fact that the NB book (and other sources) state that the supernatural "Attributes" are limited to the Morphus DOES NOT preclude the Facade from having regeneration since it is not, by definition, an "Attribute".

[barna10]

I stand by everything I've said regarding interpreting the text. However, the Old F.A.Q. (which is official) states that the Facade DOES NOT Regenerate.

[Nightmask]

Hmmm, did they add Regeneration when they retitled the book from Nightspawn to Nightbane? Because I've been rereading my Nightspawn book and can't find any reference to either the facade or morphus being able to regenerate (although given the book layout being so odd compared to most other Palladium books I wouldn't be surprised to learn it's just off in a spot outside the main Nightspawn entry).

[drewkitty ~..~]

the Facade is not immune to mind control, transformation, vampires, etc.

The immunities vs mind control and metamorphosis are not supernatural attributes. That is why they are listed as Immunities and not attributes.
They can be found in mundane races.
True Atlanteans are immune to transformations.
--------------
Is working from the NB MB (3rd printing) & the NBSG (1st printing) and there is not a hint of facade regeneration.
---------------
This whole topic is because of the someone did not pick up on the 'understanding' that anything a rifts convertion books says about a race is only appliciable to rifts.
In other words: Rifts convertions books do not change the race in their setting of origin. They only state how those races are handled in the Rifts setting.

I for one do not like Rifters trying to pervert the other settings so they are "just rifts someone else."

[Havoc]

My vote is that they heal normally in there facade based off that it says that the facade doesn't have supernatural attributes and the regen of 10 SDC/melee is under supernatural attributes.

For some reason I have the impression that they did heal faster then normal human in there facade, like two times normal, but I can't find hard number to it. I did find a reference to it on page 9 in Nightspawn under the forth paragraph, but it is part of The Wanderer Diaries and doesn't stat out what it is just that they heal faster then normal in there facade.

[pblackcrow]

I follow the "lesser", though greater than human healing rate. Feel that they heal at a rate of 1d4 points of damage every 5 minutes in the facade form. That's just me. I have no idea how Danial will be doing it.

[The Beast]

My vote is that they heal normally in there facade based off that it says that the facade doesn't have supernatural attributes and the regen of 10 SDC/melee is under supernatural attributes.

For some reason I have the impression that they did heal faster then normal human in there facade, like two times normal, but I can't find hard number to it. I did find a reference to it on page 9 in Nightspawn under the forth paragraph, but it is part of The Wanderer Diaries and doesn't stat out what it is just that they heal faster then normal in there facade.

I recall the same thing as well.

[TechnoGothic]

We have always allowed the Facade to Regenerate at the full rate. That it is the single trait they could give them away as Nightbane. But the Nightlords have not yet figured this out yet for some reason.

[Mad Cow Milk]

We have always allowed the Facade to Regenerate at the full rate. That it is the single trait they could give them away as Nightbane. But the Nightlords have not yet figured this out yet for some reason.

I remember reading that line somewhere in one of the books as well.

[Hendrik]

First of all, thanking the OP for bringing up this topic.

the Old F.A.Q. (which is official) states that the Facade DOES NOT Regenerate.

That is how I thought it is.

I have now checked the main book again. And, to my surprise, the rules do say even the facade is better than a normal human regarding regeneration.

"... Facades ... heal faster than a normal human and are highly resistant to normal maladies like disease, poisons and the elements, but by and large, they are not invulnerable to all normal dangers. The Morphus shape, however, ... heal from injury almost as fast as it is inflicted and are impervious to most disease.

Nightbane ... can regenerate damage at the rate of 10 S.D.C./hit points at the end of each melee round!

Other than that I have found no explanation or rule what exactly is the "faster then normal human" regeneration in the Facade form.

The normal rate - may be sped up, of course, by professional help or drugs etc. - is 2 HP / 4 SDC per day. For Nightbane in Facade form I would double that, not more. But that's just me. Makes changing into Morphus, which will not always be possible so much more desireable.

Has anyone found an official rule on this?

Cheers
Hendrik

[Nekira Sudacne]

The Nightbane Survival Guide has a talent that gives the facade the ability to regenerate the same rate as the morphus for a limited time.

This can only be a cannonal statement that the default is they do not without this talent, else it would be pointless.

[Hendrik]

Good point, Nekira, and reinforces my quote/argument. Now for the question: but how does the facade regenerate, there is a pretty huge gap between Morphus and human SDC/HP regeneration?

[Nekira Sudacne]

well yea? In facade form the nightbane has no regeneration and heals at human rates.

[Hendrik]

I don't think so anymore, at least page 9 of the cor book (see quote above) suggest strongly otherwise while the actual facade rate is given nowhere. This is why I am asking.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I don't think so anymore, at least page 9 of the core book (see quote above) suggest strongly otherwise while the actual facade rate is given nowhere. This is why I am asking.

There is flavor text that says that a NB/NS's facade heals faster then normal humans. I know this text, which is why I almost put down that they heal twice as fast as human when I first responded to this topic but didn't after not finding any supporting text in the stats section.
Why did I thing twice as fast, because that is the usual meaning of "heals faster then normal" in the normal PB usage of the phrase.

Having the facade heal twice as fast then it is normal for humans to heal it the reasonable assumption that could be made from the text.

[Johnathan]

I don't think so anymore, at least page 9 of the core book (see quote above) suggest strongly otherwise while the actual facade rate is given nowhere. This is why I am asking.

There is flavor text that says that a NB/NS's facade heals faster then normal humans. I know this text, which is why I almost put down that they heal twice as fast as human when I first responded to this topic but didn't after not finding any supporting text in the stats section.
Why did I thing twice as fast, because that is the usual meaning of "heals faster then normal" in the normal PB usage of the phrase.

Having the facade heal twice as fast then it is normal for humans to heal it the reasonable assumption that could be made from the text.

To support this claim, somewhat, in Dark Conversions, it states that a Nightbane's Facade heals at the rate of 10 SDC/HP per Melee, while in Morphus, they heal 2D4+2 MDC per Melee.

Now, I know Dark Conversions is more of a RIFTS supplement. But, it does support the flavor text a little bit more when it says they heal faster than normal humans while in Facade.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Now, I know Dark Conversions is more of a RIFTS supplement. But, it does support the flavor text a little bit more when it says they heal faster than normal humans while in Facade.

Rifts Dark Converaions IS a Rifts book. Not "more of", "is". And everything in it is non-canon for the NB setting since it is a Rifts book. [Yes rifters, it is canon for the Rifts setting still, but since it is not a NB book things in it only make a appearance in NB when individual GM's import things from it.]

After rereading, it looks like they would regen in Morphus and Facade. The reason I say that is that all of NB powers that are only usable in Morphus state "while wearing their Morphus form..." Since the regen does not specify that it's only in Morphus it stands to reason that it would work in facade as well.

*points at the previusly stated reasons why meatboy's comment is incorrect*

[Tinker Dragoon]

I think we're going around in circles here...

Basically, it all comes down to this: WHY do Nightbane regenerate?

If the answer is "because they're Nightbane, and it's an innate power of the species," then they probably should regenerate in both forms.

If the answer is "because they have Supernatural Physical Endurance," then regeneration will only be possible in Morphus, because the Facade has normal human attributes.

Unfortunately, evidence has been presented for both answers to be true, making this a GM's judgment call.

From a game mechanics perspective, it seems to me that the ability to recover from zero S.D.C. to full health in 45 seconds undermines the concept of the Facade being "frail and vulnerable," although I concede that this does make Nightbane PCs more likely to survive combat at low levels.

[Hendrik]

Hi there,

for me it does not matter whether the rule is mentioned in the fluff or not. It was just easier to overread.

This is a real pity. There is a clear statement but no game mechanic offered for it. I think this is a clear oversight. I guess it may come from initial planning having possibly been that Nightspawn do not regenerate in facade form but then that was later changed. Alas, only the main text body was changed but it was omitted in the class write up. Anyway ...

While drewkitty is arguably right that Dark Conversions is Rifts canon and not Nightbane canon - I would say it is part of megaversial canon and that I also do not care much to differentiate what is canon and what is not within Palladium's systems - I agree that it further reinforces the Nightbane rule (as cited by me) anyway. I strongly believe that it is very legitimate to try to fill rule gaps of one Palladium system with the wisdom from another. As Palladium games a written that makes extreme sense. The "megaversial" rules are written in waves and not per system. They are then just specialized per system. I would not be so canonical about it, drewkitty. But that is really beside the point here. Let's find a sensible regeneration rule.

Drewkitty :I like your idea with the DOUBLE HUMAN REGENERATION rate for the facade. I think this is very reasonable.

Rappanui: Why not. But, I think 10 SDC/HP per hour is too much and quite extreme (that is a 240 per day versus 2/4 per day for ordinary humans), yet: see below.

Dark Conversions, it states that a Nightbane's Facade heals at the rate of 10 SDC/HP per Melee, while in Morphus, they heal 2D4+2 MDC per Melee.

This is interesting.

Let me try to apply, re-engineer:

(1) 10 SDC per melee means a value of 57,600 SCD/HP per day [10*4*60*24]. 2D4+2 MDC per melee means 3-10, average 7 MDC per melee, i.e. a value of av. 700 SDC per melee, which results in a "Regeneration Value" of 4,032,000 SDC/HP per day [700*4*60*24] for the Morphus. Thus, under Dark Conversions the Morphus regenerates (on average) 70 times faster than in facade form.
(2) Now, Nightbane states a healing rate of 10 SDC/HP per melee round in Morphus form, which means a "Regeneration Value" of 57,600 SCD/HP per day. To come up with Dark Conversion equivalent facade regeneration rate we would need to now divided that value by 70; the result would be [rounded up] 823 per day or 34 per hour, about 0.57 per minute or ca. 0.14 per melee. In any case it is the human regeneration power by a factor of 200-400.

Well, that is hardly easy to handle.

Bottom line: Until there is a restatement of the rules or a clarification I will likely go with the double human regeneration. Makes things more interesting.

Cheers
Hendrik

[Warwolf]

I don't have long and I'm away from my books. But there is a canon answer to this debate in the Q&A that was cut from the Survival Guide and later included in one of the Rifters (48?).

I'll look tonight and try to post back with the issue and page number tomorrow.

[Jedrious]

#48 pg23 10hp/hour, track damage for facade and morphus, both forms heal regardless of which form you are in.

[Warwolf]

Thanks for the backup, Jedrious. That'd be the answer I was talking about. My schedule has been full lately and net access spotty at best.

[Hendrik]

#48 pg23 10hp/hour, track damage for facade and morphus, both forms heal regardless of which form you are in.

Thank you, Jedrious. I had no time yet to follow up on your reference, but I am extremely happy to see that there is a rule - it really was missing. I must have overlooked it in the Rifter, shame on me. As happy as I am about it, I must say that it is a wee bit vexing that this rule has not found its way into the Nightbane Survival Guide as it is a sorely needed clarification. I think it should be printed in the next Nightbane sourcebook as well.

Cheers
Hendrik

[Warwolf]

As happy as I am about it, I must say that it is a wee bit vexing that this rule has not found its way into the Nightbane Survival Guide as it is a sorely needed clarification. I think it should be printed in the next Nightbane sourcebook as well.

Cheers
Hendrik

I agree that it's an important one. It was cut from the Survival Guide for lack of space. The same may happen to the short list of Q&As I have planned for Dark Designs (such as what happens with damage taken during the Becoming).

[Hendrik]

As happy as I am about it, I must say that it is a wee bit vexing that this rule has not found its way into the Nightbane Survival Guide as it is a sorely needed clarification. I think it should be printed in the next Nightbane sourcebook as well.

Cheers
Hendrik

I agree that it's an important one. It was cut from the Survival Guide for lack of space. The same may happen to the short list of Q&As I have planned for Dark Designs (such as what happens with damage taken during the Becoming).

Hi Mark,

I understand the necessities of the editing process and, while I bemoan that there are not many more or much fatter books - - I naturally accept these decisions. Yet, a clarification that is no larger than maybe 2 lines or even a whole paragraph that is so crucial (damage happens in almost every game on every gameday) should not have been cut. ...

I would love to see those Q&As and a restatement of the regeneration rule in Dark Designs (please convey my pretty please with a cherry on top to Kevin).

Kindest regards
Hendrik

[Warwolf]

Hi Mark,

I understand the necessities of the editing process and, while I bemoan that there are not many more or much fatter books - - I naturally accept these decisions. Yet, a clarification that is no larger than maybe 2 lines or even a whole paragraph that is so crucial (damage happens in almost every game on every gameday) should not have been cut. ...

I would love to see those Q&As and a restatement of the regeneration rule in Dark Designs (please convey my pretty please with a cherry on top to Kevin).

Kindest regards
Hendrik

I hear ya, pal. I'll see what I can do.

[Hendrik]

I would love to see those Q&As and a restatement of the regeneration rule in Dark Designs (please convey my pretty please with a cherry on top to Kevin).

I hear ya, pal. I'll see what I can do.

Thank you, to see those Q&A would be wonderful!

[Icefalcon]

I want to see the Q&A's make it into the book also.

[Tor]

Obviously something about the Facade is "supernatural" sense it has "supernatural" senses!

Sensing the supernatural doesn't mean you're supernatural yourself.

Most spell casters also have similar sensing abilities without becoming supernatural or a creature of magic.

[Warwolf]

Obviously something about the Facade is "supernatural" sense it has "supernatural" senses!

Sensing the supernatural doesn't mean you're supernatural yourself.

Most spell casters also have similar sensing abilities without becoming supernatural or a creature of magic.

Right. The Facade does NOT register as supernatural. Otherwise, Hounds could pick them out and track them at any time.

[Tor]

The Nightbane Survival Guide has a talent that gives the facade the ability to regenerate the same rate as the morphus for a limited time.

How do you figure this would work for a Shadow Warlock or Reshaper?

in Dark Conversions, it states that a Nightbane's Facade heals at the rate of 10 SDC/HP per Melee, while in Morphus, they heal 2D4+2 MDC per Melee.

Now, I know Dark Conversions is more of a RIFTS supplement. But, it does support the flavor text a little bit more when it says they heal faster than normal humans while in Facade.

I'd say this only applies in the Rifts setting due to being an MDC world, high levels of PPE, etc.

2d4+2 is on average 7 MDC, or 700 SDC. Which means the rate is 70x higher than 10SDC/melee.

Since 10/melee is the morphus' healing rate in the Nightbane world, we could say the facade heals at 1/70 the rate, or 1 SDC every 7 melees, perhaps?

That's still rapid enough that you'd think the Nightlords would figure out a way to test people for it though. Healing faster than 1 SDC/2 minutes eclipses even the enhanced healing abilities of Dopplegangers, and approaches that of the Doppleganger Warlords.

Speaking of those two, anyone ever figure out what PE bonus added to their healing rates? Wasn't sure if it was coma or magic or poison. When ME bonus gets listed I'm also not sure if it's the lower save vs psi or the higher save vs insanity bonus that applies.

Dark Converaions IS a Rifts book. Not "more of", "is". And everything in it is non-canon for the NB setting since it is a Rifts book.

Palladium has never established a distinct canonicity like this. I'm pretty sure the gods in Rifts Africa are the same as the ones in Dragons and Gods, for example.

On the other hand, the demon/deevil lords in CB1 differ a good deal from the D&G ones (D&G even mentions that the real Modeus doesn't know about the 'fake' Modeus operating in Rifts Earth), and I'm not sure which Modeus is the one mentioned in Nightlands working with Lilith. Both seem to have their own version of 'Hades' though (I assume the CB1 version is the one who the Greek god "Hades" lives with). Even Succor Bemoth has an imposter, not to mention the male/female versions of Mictla (the male being an Aztec god from Rifts Earth as opposed to the female living on the Palladium World's 'nightlands').

That a Hades lord is buds with a Nightlord, is, I think, evidence enough that the setting is not utterly distinct. Vampire intelligences trying to make a foothold in Nightbane's earth might even be some of the ones trying to settle on Rifts, too.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The Nightbane Survival Guide has a talent that gives the facade the ability to regenerate the same rate as the morphus for a limited time.

How do you figure this would work for a Shadow Warlock or Reshaper?

It wouldn't, in the same way splitting image does nothing. talents that play on the uninque dual-nature of nightbane won't work for non-nightbane, even if they have and can learn talents.

[Tor]

Ah, but the Shadow Warlock has the distinct "no limitations except level". The main book has 'morphus only' abilities, and it also had elite talents that required specific nightbane characteristics to select.

Since levels are the only limitation, the SW can select elite talents and use morphus-only talents in their normal form.

The main problem is just the logistics of how it'd operate. 'Reshape facade' should just let them reshape their normal body. Just like they would turn into an army of tiny homunculi if they used Swarm Self. That healing ability though, since they don't have a morphus with an enhanced healing factor to copy, would do nothing, I guess.

That said: if a SW had 'borrow morphus' and copied a nightbane who had the talents of splittin image and that healing thing, I'd let'm do it in that case. Presumably when a nightbane (or SW) borrows a morphus, they don't borrow that nightbane's facade along with it.

Splittin image I think should just let a SW make 2 identical copies of himself with the same stats since they don't have a distinctive morphus/facade. I assume their form is treated as both simultaneously except under circumstances where they borrow a nightbane's morphus.