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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:40 am
  

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I started another thread on here about the organizations from Heroes Unlimited in a HU/NB cross over game, and the power discrepancy of the 'bane vs heroes, but I thought it best if I made a post about the world I am setting all this in.

Before Dark Day, the public, in large part, saw the world of Heroes Unlimited. They saw the heroes fighting the villains, the villains robbing banks, knocking over armored cars, and doing all those things villains are want to do. They saw their heroes flying around, taking those villains on, and generally trying to make the world a better place.

As far as the Nightbane side of things, before Dark Day, it was just like in the Nightbane book... except that mutants are a known factor in the world, so even if a "normal" saw a bane in its Morphus, they just assumed it was another mutant doing whatever it is mutants do. After all, no one wants to go and get a closer look, it might attack or something. Everyone knows they are dangerous escaped monsters, right?

So, with the above in place, its not hard to come up with the way things were.

Dark Day, however, changed everything.

All the panic, chaos, and general problems associated with Dark Day happened. The only thing here to dwell on is the heroes side of events.

Basically, if a hero was known, they "disappeared" on Dark Day. In fact, any of the heroes that jumped in there tights and capes, and flew off to deal with all the problems stemming from Dark Day (which were most) were attacked by Hounds and Hunters and other Nightlord minions. Well known groups, like the Centurians of Century Station, would have been all but wiped out. Some would have survived, like Apex, due to his ties to Sector, which in this world, would be, by and large, the Spook Squad. With there connections, I can only guess they would have known something was going down, and would have pulled their "soldiers" in, just in case. Most of the known heroes are gone, though.

but note I didn't say "dead". I think that some of them surely would have died in the fighting, as the various minions of the Nightlords would have been gunning for them. But I don't think it would have been even half. After all, these guys tend to be part of a team that works well together, and have walked into how many ambushes? They aren't fools, and would have pulled out to see whats what. Most are either still trying to assess the situation, or have gone undercover, as going out in public with your costume on just makes you a target these days.

Just a quick aside, but the game I am going to run is going to be in Century Station. Just imagine the cesspool THAT place is going to be after Dark Day... Anyway, the players will actually help Iron Lotus and Durandel fight off there opponents.

As for the villains, some will see the lack of heroes as there big opening, and in the days and months after Dark Day, they will come out in force! Of course, the cops and feds that oppose them will be surprisingly capable opponents...

I see many villains either dying just as much as the heroes will, or turning to the nightlords. Most will be given that option. Even so, many are either too independent or deranged to work for the nightlords, and will either perish or go underground themselves.

The Mutant Underground will be an affiliate of the Underground Railroad, either an official branch, a very friendly, if separate organization, or one and the same. I am leaning heavily towards the "one and the same" option, as it fits very well.

Back to Century Station, I see the Nightlords having Gramercy Island losing its prisoners in some sort of major malfunction as a perfect way to throw off scrutiny into what they are doing. They can worry about the escapee's later. But, there is a small problem with that... Warden Harker. You GM's out there know what I am talking about, but I will refrain from discussing it so as not to ruin it for any players that don't know and are reading this. Will he go along with it? Even better, what happens if they try and replace him? If you have any ideas about the Warden and Gramercy, please try and keep the secret... well, a secret. LOL, don't want to spoil anything for the players.

But there are still some unanswered questions. Like, what do our Magic heroes know before Dark Day? I think that it would be beneficial to the plot if most, if not all, are members of the Seekers.

Now, another problem is the various other supernatural oddities out there. I have integrated the various Tribes of the Moon into my game, and there are the Vampires as well... not to mention the Inlustris (Rifter #1), all of whom have been around before Dark Day. Due to the secrecy all of these forces want and desire, I am going to assume the battles and activities of these various groups have been covert enough to not come into the public eye. At least, not enough to be noticed by the general public. The Athanatos I will leave as is, as they were able to keep there identities secret in the NB world for all this time, its not much of a stretch to assume the could accomplish the same in the crossover world.

Still, I am sure there are things I am not thinking of. So any ideas that pop into your heads would be appreciated!

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:31 pm
  

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No replies... does this mean my ideas are sound? Or so bad no one has bothered to reply? LOL

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Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:41 pm
  

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Sounds pretty good to me. I love Nightbane and HU, but i've never combined them. Nightbane by themselves are pretty badass in a HU world. Still the idead of heroes going up against Hounds and such is appealing. Good luck with the game. :-)

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Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:55 pm
  

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I don't buy it. If the Nightlords are trying to keep their existence a secret, why would they do something huge like trying to kill every superhero in the world on Dark Day? Dark Day itself is a conspicuous enough event, but if a high proportion of the world's caped crusaders are bumped off at the same time then the Nightlords may as well just put up a big neon sign saying "Attention people of Earth, the ultimate supervillains have arrived". If they want to thin out the world's superhero population, they'd be better off "sponsoring" (ie creating) new ridicuously dangerous supervillains and unleashing them upon the world after Dark Day, preferably with some cover story about how these villains caused Dark Day to happen in the first place.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:30 am
  

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femfan wrote:
Sounds pretty good to me. I love Nightbane and HU, but i've never combined them. Nightbane by themselves are pretty badass in a HU world. Still the ideal of heroes going up against Hounds and such is appealing. Good luck with the game. :-)


One of the funnest games I played was based in world with all the SDC settings mixed into one.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:56 pm
  

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Rallan wrote:
I don't buy it. If the Nightlords are trying to keep their existence a secret, why would they do something huge like trying to kill every superhero in the world on Dark Day? Dark Day itself is a conspicuous enough event, but if a high proportion of the world's caped crusaders are bumped off at the same time then the Nightlords may as well just put up a big neon sign saying "Attention people of Earth, the ultimate supervillains have arrived". If they want to thin out the world's superhero population, they'd be better off "sponsoring" (ie creating) new ridicuously dangerous supervillains and unleashing them upon the world after Dark Day, preferably with some cover story about how these villains caused Dark Day to happen in the first place.


I'd think they'd be smarter and find a way to sponsor a bunch of heroes before Dark Day then staging some sort of event they could point to that would hopefully kill a bunch of innocent humans and then blame it all on the heroes and their 'recklessness' and how it shows we can't trust them.


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Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:42 am
  

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Daniel Stoker wrote:
Rallan wrote:
I don't buy it. If the Nightlords are trying to keep their existence a secret, why would they do something huge like trying to kill every superhero in the world on Dark Day? Dark Day itself is a conspicuous enough event, but if a high proportion of the world's caped crusaders are bumped off at the same time then the Nightlords may as well just put up a big neon sign saying "Attention people of Earth, the ultimate supervillains have arrived". If they want to thin out the world's superhero population, they'd be better off "sponsoring" (ie creating) new ridicuously dangerous supervillains and unleashing them upon the world after Dark Day, preferably with some cover story about how these villains caused Dark Day to happen in the first place.


I'd think they'd be smarter and find a way to sponsor a bunch of heroes before Dark Day then staging some sort of event they could point to that would hopefully kill a bunch of innocent humans and then blame it all on the heroes and their 'recklessness' and how it shows we can't trust them.


Daniel Stoker


Yeah but pre-Dark Day their resources are limited, and most of what their dudes on Earth do is geared up to either prepare the way or make sure nobody finds out about it.

Meanwhile, a cover story that relies on "oh these very famous prominent individuals who are constantly in the public eye were traitors" is a cover story that's gonna be extremely hard to maintain. Better to just run Dark Day as an unexplained event (or hint that a new cabal of "supervillains" who are all Night Princes and Avatars may have been responsible) than to try and pin it on well-known guys. There'll be plenty of time to frame superheroes after things ahve settled down, and it'll be much, much easier after Dark Day since you can use supernatural doubles for lots of the important roles.

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Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:14 pm
  

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I think the Nightlords would have wanted to use the chaos and turbulence of Dark Day to remove as many Heroes as they could. They are, after all, a potential problem for the Nightlords. Not so much as there powers and a opponent to fight, but because of their prominence in the public eye. These guys are known to be heroes, giving all for the common man, and the public, for the most part, trusts them. So, if Heroes Unlimited version of Spider Man suddenly finds out about the Nightlords, he can cause all kinds of trouble. Sure, the spin doctors that work for the Nightlords can make some publicity go away, there will be too many people that won't buy it, and will believe their hero, especially when he starts showing proof. After all, with the Spider Man idea, all it takes is some well taken photo's, as he is so capable of doing, to prove his story. This type of problem the Nightlords simply can not have. So, remove them during the chaos of Dark Day, and then even have the "killers" of the peoples favorite heroes, brought to justice. Now, the people like the government even more. Too much to gain, and too much to lose by not removing as many of them as possible during Dark Day.

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Unread postPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:12 pm
  

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Recently re-read the section in the back of Nightlands about the idea of HU and NB being combined, and that makes some sense as well. The Nightlords, by offing a lot of the heroes, or even making them go underground, would have had a major victory right there. When the monsters attacked, and Joe Public looked to the skies to see if the caped crusader that is his hero was coming to save him, and saw nothing... well, there would be a huge amount of animosity towards the heroes. A huge number of folks lost people they knew or loved on Dark Day, and where were the heroes to stop the madness? No where to be seen. And ever since Dark Day, they haven't heard a peep from them, either. These people relied on those heroes to help in times like these, and they were nowhere to be found.

But, good 'ole Uncle Sam is here to save the day! Look at all the stuff the government is doing to help! We don't need those so-called 'heroes' anymore, we have the Preserver Party!

So, with that idea setting in, it would be much easier for the Nightlords to use the media to slowly, during the "investigation", start pointing the finger at the "heroes" as the culprits behind the Dark Day catastrophe.

They would probably stage some crimes, with either actual super villains, or with minions dressed up as some, and make sure to point out that the "heroes" didn't show up to try and stop them, like they used to. Start off with news stories like "where have our heroes gone?", followed by ones like "why are our heroes hiding?". Then you have the stories about "What do our heroes have to hide?". And it goes downhill from there.

It would be fairly easy for the Nightlords to have a few heroes found. They wouldn't be the real McCoy, but thats not the point. As long as Joe Public thinks it is. First off, have a few found by reporters on the previously mentioned stories. Those that are found act a bit odd, and are very evasive about what they are doing, or where they have been. Then, have a few "enclaves" found where groups of heroes are hiding out. When the authorities go to ask them why they are there, the heroes attack them. After a horrible fight, with LOTS of dead, innocent peace officers, show how the 'heroes' were up to no good in some way, shape, or form.

There are lots of ways for the Nightlords to villain-ize the heroes.

BUT!

There will always be those that don't believe it. And, there are things the Heroes (and there new found bane friends, perhaps?) could do to throw wrenches in all of this. One, is to pull the superman stunt. Wander around in plain cloths, but have the costume on under it, and pull the superman trick. So, the attempt to make it seem like the heroes are no where to be found doesn't work, as they DO show up. But, this can be used against the heroes as well.

Any way this plays out, in the end, its just another part of the shadow war against the Nightlords.

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Unread postPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:37 pm
  

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We are actually playing a Nightbane game right now that sounds similar to that. It is in Century Station, the heroes are all AWOL or dead (for the most part) 3 of us are 'banes, one is a hero from HU and another character is a Chiang-Ku dragon ley line walker.

We were smuggling guns between two factions, (two from the HU book, I think they were fabricators and stranger inc) anyway it's been fun, the guy playing the super had a little troubled because he took some serious damage and does not heal like a 'bane does, but he was healed by magic so it's all good. We are playing this Friday, should be fun, we just got our hands on a space ship.

On a side note, our "hero" does not wear a costume he just wears jeans and a t-shirt to stay low-key, and avoid attention,but one NPC wore one that looked like it came from a store for halloween costumes (it was baggy and realy cheesy looking). As for me I play a 'bane and as a weird twist I draw lots of attention, I am one of the top people on the NSB's (I think that's the group from the book, not sure this is my first time playing Nightbane) most wanted list :)

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Unread postPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:13 pm
  

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Heh, another possibility. Dark Day goes off as normal, and the Night Lords pass it off as a prelude to an Alien Invasion. In the months leading up to the election, several open attacks by the 'aliens' lead to massive property damage and civilian loss of life, as well as some supers. The Preservers, as part of their campaign, cast the Supers as well-meaning, but having gone over the edge. A few more frame-up attacks after the Preservers take the white-house, they engineer a mass breakout of villains from prisons all over the country/world. Some are recruited, but most are let loose to cause mayhem. Alphabet Soup happens as stated, and includes Sector, and several other respectable supers. Not all of them, just a few. One of the NSB's directives is to control and contain rogue super-beings. They start substituting and pressuring the 'heroes', triggering outbreaks among the more fragile, and turning public opinion against the mutants, aliens, and other supers. Within two years President Carson and the Preserver Senate and Congress pass a law requiring all super-humans not employed by the government to stand down or be considered terrorists. The few who pop out are lambasted by the press, and hunted by an NSB cadre of super(natural) agents. The Mutant Underground becomes a priority, and many camps are raided and 'eliminated.' (taken to the Night Lands for indoctrination or enslavement.) The public cheers the strong government.


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Unread postPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:44 pm
  

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Razzinold wrote:
We are actually playing a Nightbane game right now that sounds similar to that. It is in Century Station, the heroes are all AWOL or dead (for the most part) 3 of us are 'banes, one is a hero from HU and another character is a Chiang-Ku dragon ley line walker.

We were smuggling guns between two factions, (two from the HU book, I think they were fabricators and stranger inc) anyway it's been fun, the guy playing the super had a little troubled because he took some serious damage and does not heal like a 'bane does, but he was healed by magic so it's all good. We are playing this Friday, should be fun, we just got our hands on a space ship.

On a side note, our "hero" does not wear a costume he just wears jeans and a t-shirt to stay low-key, and avoid attention,but one NPC wore one that looked like it came from a store for halloween costumes (it was baggy and realy cheesy looking). As for me I play a 'bane and as a weird twist I draw lots of attention, I am one of the top people on the NSB's (I think that's the group from the book, not sure this is my first time playing Nightbane) most wanted list :)

Played a Nightbane once. His Morphus form looked like Shazam/CM from the comics. Gave him talents to reflect his powers. Had alot of fun with him too. Big Lightning Bolt when he transformed too. Used the Fanboy Table Unearthy Beauty table, Meglomaniac Tables to make him. Worked Great.
Other Players were equally powerful or more so. Adult Hatchling Greeat Horned Dragon and a God from the Pantheons Book. One of the Real Gods. GM let him pick a god with Under 10,000 SDC. Another God also, Player picked him from Rifts, Strong Eagle. Only had 7 thousand SDC or so. Enough to be a terror usually. More so when he assumed Animal Totem Forms.
My Character was the "Runt" of the bunch. That was until the GM raised a few things to reflect the concept better. Or I came up with Unique Talents for his powers.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:40 am
  

Champion

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Darkechilde wrote:
They would probably stage some crimes, with either actual super villains, or with minions dressed up as some, and make sure to point out that the "heroes" didn't show up to try and stop them, like they used to.


I get the feeling that they'd have to use fake supervillains, since real villains are probably gonna end up being treated almost as badly as heroes and nightbane. Some villains don't like authority figures (which means they'd cause just as much trouble for the Nightlords as they do for human governments). Some villains don't like to share (which means they'd never stoop to working with - let alone for - someone else who plans on ruling the world). Some villains aren't bent on destroying all life on Earth (so the Nightlords' plan for genocide will be a dealbreaker). And some have "What Would The Joker Do?" bumper stickers and are so reliably treacherous or insane that you could set your watch by how regularly they'll betray their Nightlord "allies".

Which could be an interesting premise for a campaign. If the Nightlords focus on wiping out as many heroes as possible during Dark Day and leave the villains alone because they like the extra despair everyone'll feel at the thought of supervillains running amok unopposed, you could run a villains-as-protagonists game. The ranks of superherodom were decimated by Dark Day and a string of incriminating scandals in the years after it, and it's been a new golden age for the world's diabolical masterminds.

Except that some of them have stumbled upon the awful truth about the Nightlord invasion of Earth. And with the world's governments infiltrated by the enemy, and most of the world's heroes dead or in hiding, there's nobody left to save the day except for the villains.

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:37 am
  

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" Except that some of them have stumbled upon the awful truth about the Nightlord invasion of Earth. And with the world's governments infiltrated by the enemy, and most of the world's heroes dead or in hiding, there's nobody left to save the day except for the villains."

Oooh! I LIKE this idea! I'm totally going to run this past my player. She is always up for something different. The idea of all these villains wondering where their arch enemies went. Discovering that they are DEAD and now villains WORSE than them have taken over, is just too cool not to do.
Theres nothing like Villians having to save the world to find out what they are really made of. They can also use all of their feindish death traps, evil machines and crazy world-conquring schemes against the Nightlords. Share the pain I always say :twisted:
Plus they might have to save or team up with the few remaining heroes, Yeah, THAT will be FUN. :lol:

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:30 pm
  

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I had done something similar awhile back, however I had certain "key" individuals replaced by Doppelgangers, Hollow-Men, and in one instance by a Nightlord Avatar. The results were beyond satisfactory :)


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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:18 pm
  

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Interesting concept, and I'm always one to see how crossing over aspects of one game into another can change things up...

A couple of things worth pointing out though, I feel. Originally, in the Nightbane-verse, Dark Day was a diversion, yes? It was designed basically for the sole purpose of causing mass chaos while key political, industrial and law enforcement figures were replaced in a massive blitz. And through the chaos, if the Nightlord minions happened to snag off a few Nightbane, magic wielders and the rare superhuman that MIGHT have existed, then that's just one less thing they had to worry about.

HOWEVER, with that being said, Dark Day was NOT orchestrated so that the Nightlords and their minions could sweep through the streets killing off everything they came in contact with. Far too obvious, and trying to target HU Heroes and Villians, unless those Heroes and/or Villians held some kind of power BEYOND their super abilities... They would not be the main targets of the invasion. The core purpose of the invasion would remain the same.

With that being said, MOST Heroes and Villians in Heroes Unlimited, I feel, would NOT be "in the know" about what was going on during Dark Day. Magic and Psionic HU characters MIGHT have had some kind of pre-emptive warning about some great danger that was soon to envelope the Earth... But by and far, I would believe that ALL OTHERS would be -completely- clueless unless previously mentioned classes had warned THEM about it.

Heroes would assume it was some nefarious plot by some evil supervillian, in an attempt to take over the world, the super villians would assume it was some OTHER supervillian who was about to beat them to the punch... the forewarned would disappear, go into hiding, make themselves scarse... you get the idea. However! It is my belief that nine out of ten Super Heroes/Villians would go out and try to figure out just what the [Bleep] is going on! The Villians MIGHT decide to hole up in whatever evil strongholds they had and try to WAIT out it... but the HEROES would definitely be OUT there helping out the common people. And it would not take long before they encountered Nightlord Minions and did BATTLE!!

But, also remember, by the time Heroes get up and mobile, the Nightlords have already probably achieved half of their objectives! Imagine it, A Hero shows up and tries to help whatever law enforcement that is around, and they end up opening fire on him. Because the police is now controlled by the Nightlords, or are minions themselves. It would not take long for the Heroes of the world to realize that something VERY wrong has happened. Will they disappear? Doubtful, many of them, while not suicidal, will not abandon the people that have come to depend on them for their sense of security...

What do the Heroes think of Nightbane? Are they monsters? Are they villians? Minions? It suddenly becomes a four way battle. Nightbane vs Nightlords vs Heroes vs Villians. Everyone trying to figure out just WHAT they are going to do about the OTHER THREE!!

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:33 pm
  

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Johnathan wrote:
Interesting concept, and I'm always one to see how crossing over aspects of one game into another can change things up...

A couple of things worth pointing out though, I feel. Originally, in the Nightbane-verse, Dark Day was a diversion, yes? It was designed basically for the sole purpose of causing mass chaos while key political, industrial and law enforcement figures were replaced in a massive blitz. And through the chaos, if the Nightlord minions happened to snag off a few Nightbane, magic wielders and the rare superhuman that MIGHT have existed, then that's just one less thing they had to worry about.


Nah it wasn't a diversion, it was a side-effect of the Nightlord ritual that brought Earth and the Nightlands into synch with each other.

And really, if it was a diversion it was a terrible one. Before the Dark Day, it was a setting where only a tiny handful of sorcerers and monsters knew that the supernatural was in fact real, and the closest that most people came to belief in magic was their faith in false religions. Then along comes an event beyond the explanation of science which is witnessed by every person on the planet, accompanied by reports from credible witnesses all over the world of monsters and magic. If I was planning to secretly invade a world where nobody believes in magic, I'm pretty sure I'd have come up with a better diversion than showing off my magic in front of an audience of billions and announcing to the world that somehing beyond the ken of mundane science is going on :)

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:53 pm
  

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I've never liked the world of HU, I always used them in a world of my own devising for it - usually with a lot less "known" supers.

When I added HU heroes to NB I always added them as mystic, genetic, and government experiments. Same with Villains. Use some HU organizations liberally (after changing some details) and you have Supers that fit into NB seemlessly, fit thematically with the source material, and give you a lot of story ideas. Still got the same deal of villains and heroes working together, only you get different heroes and villains. How about a minor villain who becomes a vampire - suddenly he's a big league bad guy, but he has to deal with the Nightlords AND heroes who want him dead (again).

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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:33 am
  

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I find your ideas fascinating and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.


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Unread postPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:17 pm
  

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Heh, thanks. In short - sprinkle on HU rules and liberal dashes of HU organizations onto a nigthbane full 5 course meal, and voila - HU/NB crossover that makes sense.

I started to put it all together last night, but I ended up shelving it, and just stuck to writing my ongoing games instead (since, you know, they have a lot more precedence in my gaming groups :D )

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:11 pm
  

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The NB book does a decent job talking about how it might go down. And the dream stream adds a new wrinkle to things. Living nightmares and evil dream makers would/could side with the night lords. And they have the potential to take down even the strongest hero in their sleep. They can (on a case by case basis) negate superhuman abilities within the dream stream. Yeah it costs ISP to do so, but they got a good supply of it potentially. Kill Uber-man in his sleep, then use the Dream kill power to actually kill the hero.

Or some of the nightlord dream minions can draw a victim into the dream stream to kill them. No body is ever found. Even the most powerful psychic needs to watch out for the nightlord astral minions. Some of them can rip your astral self out of your body, sever your silver cord, then torture you until you become one of them.

All in all, Dark Day would be a big pita for heroes and villains alike.

Not to say every hero would fall victim to such creatures. Some would be able to fight off the dream minions or astral minions on their own. Some would have a friendly astral mage/lord or dream dancer/maker show up to help them. But by and large, the Age of Heroes would be over. The few who would still be wearing the costumes might not survive long.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:19 pm
  

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Rallan wrote:
I don't buy it. If the Nightlords are trying to keep their existence a secret, why would they do something huge like trying to kill every superhero in the world on Dark Day? Dark Day itself is a conspicuous enough event, but if a high proportion of the world's caped crusaders are bumped off at the same time then the Nightlords may as well just put up a big neon sign saying "Attention people of Earth, the ultimate supervillains have arrived". If they want to thin out the world's superhero population, they'd be better off "sponsoring" (ie creating) new ridicuously dangerous supervillains and unleashing them upon the world after Dark Day, preferably with some cover story about how these villains caused Dark Day to happen in the first place.


One explanation given is... That no one knows that most of the heroes are dead. Many were slain in their sleep or out of the public eye. Monsters were reported on Dark Day (and since once in a while), but where are the costumed crime fighters? They promised to protect the world, but they vanished when the world needed them most. Thus the Nightbane books describe that the Preservation Party would also have anti-meta stances.

"Where was Captain Crimebuster when mosters were destroying our fair city? He never came, and his negligence cost lives. Well I for one wont stand for it any longer. We don't need his help to protect the people. He's part of the problem!"

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"Justice is not blind. Justice is not fair. Justice is cold and ruthless. Justice strikes swiftly. Justice is harsh and brutal... I am Justice" -Harsh Justice


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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:26 pm
  

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FaerieKnight wrote:
Rallan wrote:
I don't buy it. If the Nightlords are trying to keep their existence a secret, why would they do something huge like trying to kill every superhero in the world on Dark Day? Dark Day itself is a conspicuous enough event, but if a high proportion of the world's caped crusaders are bumped off at the same time then the Nightlords may as well just put up a big neon sign saying "Attention people of Earth, the ultimate supervillains have arrived". If they want to thin out the world's superhero population, they'd be better off "sponsoring" (ie creating) new ridicuously dangerous supervillains and unleashing them upon the world after Dark Day, preferably with some cover story about how these villains caused Dark Day to happen in the first place.


One explanation given is... That no one knows that most of the heroes are dead. Many were slain in their sleep or out of the public eye. Monsters were reported on Dark Day (and since once in a while), but where are the costumed crime fighters? They promised to protect the world, but they vanished when the world needed them most. Thus the Nightbane books describe that the Preservation Party would also have anti-meta stances.

"Where was Captain Crimebuster when mosters were destroying our fair city? He never came, and his negligence cost lives. Well I for one wont stand for it any longer. We don't need his help to protect the people. He's part of the problem!"


If they all vanish at about the same time though, foul play is gonna be the obvious explanation. It would certainly help set up an atmosphere of hopelessness to undermine human morale, but it would turn Dark Day from "that inexplicable event that we all want to put behind us" into "the day that something terrible began".

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Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:43 pm
  

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They vanished, while at the same time credible accounts say that monsters started appearing. Maybe the so-called heroes are behind it. After all, does anyone really know anything about them? They wear masks and hide who they are.

Naturally enough, the heroes with public identities could be killed via dream monsters and a doppelganger replaces them. This public 'hero' could then denounce the world. Or throw his favor in with the preserver party. No longer is he in the streets fighting crime. Commander Dogooder is now visibly helping the preserver party and NSB to track down the true cause of Dark Day. Using his good name he could then pin it on well known heroes who've vanished.

Works better still if Commander Dogooder had no obvious super powers. If he was a hardware character for example, the night lords now have access to his highly advanced technology. Can you imagine what the nightlords would be able to do with the various plans and designs generated by a Hardware Analytical they replaced for example?

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Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:45 pm
  

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Comment: All right, torch bearer, this is what we hired you for. Go in that cave, so we can see whats in there.
Who says that Doppelgangers don't have the powers of there super double? If the double is a mage, then so are they.

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Unread postPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:18 am
  

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FaerieKnight wrote:
They vanished, while at the same time credible accounts say that monsters started appearing. Maybe the so-called heroes are behind it. After all, does anyone really know anything about them? They wear masks and hide who they are.


Okay so the chain of events (as far as most people is concerned.

1) Dark Day happens.
2) After Dark Day, people start hearing stories about monsters.
3) A bit later after Dark Day, people start to realise that a lot of superheroes don't seem to be around any more.

That's the only hard evidence anyone has to work with. Sit me down and explain why people will leap to the conclusion that the supers are why Dark Day happened, instead of concluding that something made the supers vanish.

Quote:
Naturally enough, the heroes with public identities could be killed via dream monsters and a doppelganger replaces them. This public 'hero' could then denounce the world. Or throw his favor in with the preserver party. No longer is he in the streets fighting crime. Commander Dogooder is now visibly helping the preserver party and NSB to track down the true cause of Dark Day. Using his good name he could then pin it on well known heroes who've vanished.


So basically your cunning plan for the Nightlords to avoid notice is to put a big neon sign on top of the Preserver Party and the government saying "THE EVIL CONSPIRACY IS RIGHT HERE GUYS!!!" Seriously, a bunch of the world's most popular supers becoming massive jerks, giving up crimefighting, and joining the Preserver Party? In any sane world (or really, in any world where all the ordinary people in it aren't retarded morons), it'll take people all of five seconds to realise that something very very wrong is going on, and that the Preserver Party is in the thick of it.

Imagine you live in the DC universe. All of a sudden Superman and Wonder Woman and Batman and so on start being massive jerks, killing criminals instead of handing them over to the cops, doing public appearances for a fascist political party that started six months ago, and cackling maniacally when they're asked where various critical journalists have ended up. You would have to be the most amazingly stupid dumbass in the history of amazingly stupid dumbasses not to realise that this new political party is ran by some sort of evil baddy.

It makes for a great plot for a saturday morning action cartoon, but as plausible setting ideas go it's just terrible.

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Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:10 am
  

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I have a few ideas on the subject:
A) the Nightlords took control, the heroes saw it coming, & took control of the planet forcibly (think the parallel earth where the Justice League took control of earth after the Flash was killed), and battled the "bad guys" who manipulate & control the public to fight against their oppressors.

B) the Nightlords could coerce a great many supervillains. you are all focusing on the Heroes too much and not enough on the Villains. Hounds & supervillains working side by side could overwhelm or scare off a great many heroes

C) it takes Nightcults, alot of them worldwide, to align the dimensions. the sheer magical power would attract attention of most magic-users though alot of them would simply take the power boost in stride & not think much of it. however, with the Nightcults doing their thing, the good magic-users would be the first to "disappear". the Heroes are generally weak against magic. the Nightlords would utilize that to their advantage with their cults.

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