Thoughts on Palladium Fantasy RPG?

[ocasaenva]

Listening to the recent System Mastery episode informed me that Palladium Fantasy RPG is a game that exists. Would anyone like to share their experiences playing that? I always hear about how RIFTS itself is (hilariously) broken and/or overwrought. Does this game suffer from that same fate as well?

[Goblin-Jack]

Listening to the recent System Mastery episode informed me that Palladium Fantasy RPG is a game that exists. Would anyone like to share their experiences playing that? I always hear about how RIFTS itself is (hilariously) broken and/or overwrought. Does this game suffer from that same fate as well?

Hello Ocasaenva,

Palladium Fantasy RPG (PFRPG) is my favorite of all Palladium games, primarily because of the setting, and specifically because of the (what I consider) rich lore. I don't think PFRPG is broken or overwrought, but again, I really like the lore, so what I've read and talked with other gamers about they don't like in PFRPG, sometimes the lore comes across as what I believe you're referring to as 'overwrought.' That said, I don't feel it's broken. I think it flows very easily and that the skills, due to the lack of modern or energy weapons and technology, have more value (at least in my adventures). Thanks for asking, I hope that helps.

--GJ

[kiralon]

There are 2 versions and both have their ups and downs, i started on first ed so prefer that, even though i play a heavily modded version, and i have been playing it for 34 years now, interspersed with multiple other table top games and even though i will occasionally play other games, this is what i play regularly (mostly every sat 10am to 5pm). The lore of the world is good fun, and it does have its issues but that is what is expected from a game that's over 30 years old. The people here on the boards are pretty helpful so if you get stuck with something there is a good chance you will get multiple opinions on it to help you decide. If you have a group of gamers and are looking for something else to play I can certainly recommend it.

[Library Ogre]

Pros:
*A wide variety of magics; several different flavors of spellcasting, psionics, ward magic, summoning circles, alchemy, rune magic, crystal magic, life force wizardry, witches with super-powers, druids with earth magic... a lot of really neat styles of magic.
*The variety of races is pretty good, with a lot of options, and that variety can support a lot of different stories.

Cons:
*While races and magic have a lot of variety, the martial classes do not; Mercenary Fighters and Soldiers are more or less the same OCC, and the differences between things like Knights and Paladins don't feel significant.
*Levelling BTB takes so long that the attempt to balance classes via XP tables does not do well.
*The four combat styles are all the same thing, with slightly different numbers. The differing hand-to-hand styles from 1e are not much better. The "best" style, Martial Arts? Sure, it has the best numbers... but for some reason, all of the paladins are really good at kicking people... which is GREAT, because kicking people frequently does as much damage as a sword.
*The skill system is poorly implemented; there's no consideration, in the game itself, on how to do something you're not trained in (How do you sneak if you don't have the Prowl skill? Can someone who is prowling be detected?)
*Combat tends to take a very long time, due to multiple actions.
*Mechanically, magic is uneven, and does not mix well with some parts of combat (i.e. defense against Call Lightning and Fireball). Learned casters have huge advantages over granted/intuitive casters, due to the speed of levelling.
*More minor: Shields are kinda crap, which is common in RPGs. Paired Weapons is, IME, made into a super-skill. The armor system has a number of problems, though they are less pronounced than in Rifts.

The game has a lot going for it at the conceptual level. The world-building is good, though the lack of the Old Kingdom book makes things a bit difficult, since that's central to the entire continent. Magic has some great ideas, and neat systems, but mechanically, they run into a lot of problems. The game is not tightly written, meaning that you have to do a lot of interpretation... which is fine if you like that, but if you're coming from a game where words are used precisely, it can be very frustrating.

[rogerd1]

Listening to the recent System Mastery episode informed me that Palladium Fantasy RPG is a game that exists. Would anyone like to share their experiences playing that? I always hear about how RIFTS itself is (hilariously) broken and/or overwrought. Does this game suffer from that same fate as well?

1. There is tons of lore to get stuck into, like loads of it. And it is quite interesting, which you can pick and choose the bits you want.

2. The classes OCC's are plentiful - in fact far too many. It would be better ditching the level system, and either have Tiers 1-5, or level of mastery, Modern Age (which is a tier system of sorts anyway). Alternatively, it would be better to have a few basic classes, and then use the others as a refinement process to determine where each character wants to specialise. But that said, there is loads of choice, it is just split over multiple books, sadly.

3. Magic is terrible. Like really bad. Mages are good for five medium level spells then they are out of juice. Palladium Fantasy needs to decide on its genre - sword and sorcery, high fantasy etc, and then stick to it. It also badly needs a cantrip list - e.g. Daylight, Purify etc would fit squarely under that.

4. Too many skills. Have a dozen basic skills, plus specialisations.

5. Gods. Garden of the Gods was to put it mildly a massive disappointment. They could have done so much with this, but squandered it really. 1e gods were basically nuClash of the Titans Olympians, which was pretty cool. Now they are incorporeal beings - which doesn't really work.

6. Class Abilities. Are easily expanded upon by drawing from DnD, or Runequest. For instance adding the Archer could have a load of Bow Mastery stuff added to buff him. Although it does not need to be a separate class, and could be rolled under Warrior, as a specialisation.

7. A lot of different types of magics which you can pick and choose from.

8. Combat is painfully slow.

9. The HTH types could be expanded upon, and allow for more bespoke stuff. So if I wanted HTH Martial Arts, but it was defensive it should be easily customisable. WP just need to go under HTH stuff, and need to grouped better. PF1e was good at this bit.

[Veknironth]

Well, I'll just address the concerns other people have listed.

The world building and lore is generally excellent. My only gripe with it is how much of it seems to not gibe with other parts of the game. For instance, why don't leaders of kingdoms have multiple magic items on them? Why don't Warlocks rule everything with armies of elementals? Why is demon/deevil bone/blood so lucrative when a summoner can create a massive supply of it easily? I digress.

There are too many OCCs. Each book had to put forth some region specific OCC that almost no one plays. There is little to differentiate between a lot of the men at arms classes other than bonuses and attacks per melee. The 2nd edition made it worse with the four megaversal Hand to Hands and letting non-Man-at-Arms take all of the skills that were previously the sole domain of fighter types.

I like the magic system. Having a pool of energy from which you pull cast spells is a great idea. It's much better than spells per day, or spell slots. The spells could use an overhaul. Their descriptions seem to have a particular use in mind and do not take into account lateral thinking. That leads to the need for ALOT of interpretation. Half of my posts are asking about how to rule on powers and spells. I don't think that a mage runs out of power quickly, unless they happen to have a small pool of energy. The scaling is odd, though. The damaging spells start weak, but can be devastating at high levels. That's particularly true for warlocks.

I like the skills. It can be time consuming for character creation, but it really fleshes out the characte. It's true that there is no mechanic for attempting something without the skill, but that doesn't bother me that much. The GM can determine that the PC's succeed at something by fiat as long as it supports the storyline. And somethings would have no chance of success without training. You can't luck into speaking a language correctly.

Combat only takes long if people don't know what they're doing. That's true of any system. Of course, with the options available to you in the Palladium Combat system, there is a lot more to know.

What I will add is that 2nd edition needs a rewrite. As it stands, there are clear best practices. Battle Axe is by far the best weapon. Paired Weapons is an absolute must. Boxing is right behind it.

-Vek
"It's still my favorite."

[Library Ogre]

What I will add is that 2nd edition needs a rewrite. As it stands, there are clear best practices. Battle Axe is by far the best weapon. Paired Weapons is an absolute must. Boxing is right behind it.

"Wolfen... WP battle axe... Paired Weapons... Boxing. Ooh, Hand to Hand assassin, for a lead on attacks once I hit 2nd level! There, I am ready to destroy everything, now."
"Oh yeah? I'm playing a JERIDU! Eat my six arms!"
"Aren't there only like, twelve of you in the entire world?"
"Yes, and I am prepared to play the other eleven of them if this one dies!"

[Veknironth]

Well, Mark, you're close. But you need to substitute "Troll" for "Wolfen".

-Vek
"In an online game, I made a Troll barbarian who ended up with a 44PS."

[rogerd1]

I like the magic system. Having a pool of energy from which you pull cast spells is a great idea. It's much better than spells per day, or spell slots.

Various 3PP DnD 5e have remove spell slots and gone with Power Points, Aeltaltis being one.

I don't think that a mage runs out of power quickly, unless they happen to have a small pool of energy.

Some characters in the books have around 150 magic points which will get them 15 shots with a fireball (10 points per shot), doing 1d6 per level - and that is assuming they hit the target!

So yeah, magic users runout of MP really quickly.

[Sambot]

I like Palladium.

In response to some things I've read.

Too many OCCs, with some being region specific. Isn't that like saying Japan shouldn't have Samurai or Europe shouldn't have Knights? I like that there's OCCs you can find anywhere along with region specific OCCs. It makes places unique while still having things in common with other places. I would find it odd if places didn't have unique OCCs.

I liked how the first edition has a different H2H for each character class. It helped
make them more different but I like how 2E allows other characters to learn those skills too. I think a Farmer could learn to joust, especially if they have a Knight or Paladin to teach them. I am sure I read rules for allowing characters to try a skill they don't know but I don't remember where I read it.

I also like that magician's have a limited pool of energy. Their endurance shouldn't be unlimited. A Knight can get exhausted. An Archer can run out of arrows. A Magician runs out of spell power. It balances them out. Otherwise Magicians would be all powerful and undefeatable.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In rebuttle to Sambot...
Yes Rifts has too many Character Classes. And too many of said classes are really a Race listing with a racial class smooshed into it and called a character class.

However, with the PFRPG Games (1st & 2nd ed's) there are maybe one & a half to double the amount of char classes (& subclasses) that D&D 5e has. And some of those classes within the PF game books are Side-character classes like miner or blacksmith.