Target number for strike rolls to shoot down missiles

[Tor]

Scenario:
*A targets B with a missile
*A rolls natural 20 to strike
*B fires a ranged weapon to try and shoot down the missile before it hits

Does B:
*have to roll a natural 20 to hit the missile
*have to roll a modified 8 to hit the missile

Although you have to match strike rolls when doing defensive stuff like dodge/entangle/parry I don't know whether shooting down missiles works the same way, or if the strike roll a missile makes is entirely done on the basis of hitting the target and then ignored.

The advantage of smart missiles which are capable of dodging attempts to shoot them down doesn't seem as extreme if you already have to beat a strike roll since a high strike-roll is effectively an auto-dodge anyway if you have to beat that.

I kinda get the impression that to shoot down a missile, the target number might just be an 8 and maybe there is a penalty to hit it because it is a fast-moving object?

Dunno if rules in this vary from Rifts/Robotech/HU

If anything is ever written about having to match the attacker's strike roll when shooting down their missiles I'd like to see it, because otherwise I'm thinking it's like a standard strike, in which case, the attacker's aim has no bearing on how hard it is to hit their missiles, making it a lot more reliable to shoot down missiles than dodge them, in most cases.

[The Beast]

I've always played you had to match or beat the attacker's roll.

[Jefffar]

In the latest book with missile rules (Robotech) a called shot(target number of 12) is required to hit the missiles with a penalty of -4 or worse depending on the weapon system used. It does not specify that this penalty is or isn't cumulative with the penalties for hitting a fast moving object.

Nothing about beating an opponent's strike roll however.

[ShadowLogan]

Although you have to match strike rolls when doing defensive stuff like dodge/entangle/parry I don't know whether shooting down missiles works the same way, or if the strike roll a missile makes is entirely done on the basis of hitting the target and then ignored.

Shooting Missiles is more like doing a simultaneous attack than a proper defensive move like Dodge/entangle/parry. It isn't presented as such in the rules, but that is what it boils down to in a lot of ways as you are technically attacking in response to an attack IMHO. That means the strike roll for the missiles is inconsequential in shooting them down, and that is how the rules present it in RMB/RUE/HU/RT-1E/2E.

[Tor]

HU also requires a called shot, I do like that option, keeps it hard on the low-end of things if you have low strike bonuses, but is an advantage for those with good striking abilities if they are being targetted by other high-bonus types if they suck at dodging.

[Killer Cyborg]

In the latest book with missile rules (Robotech) a called shot(target number of 12) is required to hit the missiles with a penalty of -4 or worse depending on the weapon system used. It does not specify that this penalty is or isn't cumulative with the penalties for hitting a fast moving object.

Nothing about beating an opponent's strike roll however.

Does a Called Shot take more than one attack/action in Robotech?

[ShadowLogan]

In the latest book with missile rules (Robotech) a called shot(target number of 12) is required to hit the missiles with a penalty of -4 or worse depending on the weapon system used. It does not specify that this penalty is or isn't cumulative with the penalties for hitting a fast moving object.

Nothing about beating an opponent's strike roll however.

Does a Called Shot take more than one attack/action in Robotech?

I'm looking in the main book for 2E (manga size) in the shooting down missiles section and it doesn't say anything about it being a called shot. It only takes one action, though you can't bank actions from the next melee.

[Jefffar]

In the latest book with missile rules (Robotech) a called shot(target number of 12) is required to hit the missiles with a penalty of -4 or worse depending on the weapon system used. It does not specify that this penalty is or isn't cumulative with the penalties for hitting a fast moving object.

Nothing about beating an opponent's strike roll however.

Does a Called Shot take more than one attack/action in Robotech?

In the latest edition of Robotech, Called Shots are an extra action and an Aimed Called Shot is two extra actions.

Also, in the same section describing how hitting a missile requires a called shot and that missiles can be used to shoot down other missiles we learn that missiles are incapable of called shots.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well, that all makes sense.

[Tor]

Always took that to mean guided/smart missiles since they will auto-aim to main bodies or heat centers but that manual-aimed unguided (usually minis) could be called. Also since only 1 or 2 missiles could be aimed, since 3+ is burst those volleys can't call. That's all RMB tho.

[Jefffar]

Sorry, must make a correction. Called shots to hit missiles is in the HU2 book, not Robotech. All the rest is accurate though.

[Tor]

Called shots taking 2 actions in some systems does really mess with it. Particularly with those speedsters who can use up to 4 actions.

[Jefffar]

Called shots take 2 actions in all the most current systems. Interestingly the missile rules state you generally have only 1 acton to respond if you are trying to shoot the missiles down. Possibly this is why the called shot clause was dropped for shooting down missiles.

[Tor]

Wouldn't say dropped if only HU had it, since Rifts/Robotech never had it to begin with, more like that's why they didn't inherit the HU2 addition. Course this makes shooting down missiles instead of dodging them all the easier.

*wonders is there is anything in text preventing one from parrying/entangling/body-flipping a missile*

[Jefffar]

The core rules are copy pasted from one main book to another and then edits applied, so at one point the called shots to hit missiles rule was likely in the draft and then removed.

It specifies the ways you can defend a missile, parrying is the other option, though it means you probably lose the arm.

[Killer Cyborg]

Called shots take 2 actions in all the most current systems. Interestingly the missile rules state you generally have only 1 acton to respond if you are trying to shoot the missiles down. Possibly this is why the called shot clause was dropped for shooting down missiles.

That was what I was wondering about.

[Alrik Vas]

This rarely comes up in rifts games, thank god. if you don't have distance and some kind of radar, shooting a missile down would require more than what the a D20 can provide as far as probability. you wouldn't even see it coming.

[Tor]

Maybe not the first missile (surprise attack) but if you survived and got an idea of the direction you could presumably target the next one even without radar. Plus a lot of encounters happen in close range.

[Alrik Vas]

Maybe not the first missile (surprise attack) but if you survived and got an idea of the direction you could presumably target the next one even without radar. Plus a lot of encounters happen in close range.

Presumably...but...the problem with a missile at it's speed is that it goes from being a smoke trail high in the sky to blowing you up in very little time. Aiming a shot, which is what you'd need to do to hit, is pretty much impossible.

Best to just stop time and move.

[Jefffar]

Maybe not the first missile (surprise attack) but if you survived and got an idea of the direction you could presumably target the next one even without radar. Plus a lot of encounters happen in close range.

Presumably...but...the problem with a missile at it's speed is that it goes from being a smoke trail high in the sky to blowing you up in very little time. Aiming a shot, which is what you'd need to do to hit, is pretty much impossible.

Best to just stop time and move.

You might not even have a smoke trail to go by.

[flatline]

2 actions for a called shot is a stupid rule.

--flatline

[Alrik Vas]

lol shooting missiles down with a rifle and no radar or computer assistance is just as dumb, to be honest.

[flatline]

lol shooting missiles down with a rifle and no radar or computer assistance is just as dumb, to be honest.

I agree. Also dumb on this subject is expecting self-guiding missiles to identify and track human targets on the ground.

--flatline

[Alrik Vas]

Yeah, operator guided missiles are much better for that.

but other than that, nothing beats a spotter and the 200 slugs of death.
shack on the target before they even hear the sonic boom.

[Tor]

the problem with a missile at it's speed is that it goes from being a smoke trail high in the sky to blowing you up in very little time

So do laser blasts but that doesn't stop us from parrying or dodging them.

Perhaps we should apply something along the lines of a -10?

Another thing is: the speeds of missiles, maybe they are maximum speeds but they go slower when accelerating at first, or turning to follow a moving target by making course corrections as they close range and it makes unpredictable movements?

[Dog_O_War]

the problem with a missile at it's speed is that it goes from being a smoke trail high in the sky to blowing you up in very little time

So do laser blasts but that doesn't stop us from parrying or dodging them.

Perhaps we should apply something along the lines of a -10?

There is a direct formula and listed speed for missiles. Use that instead.

Another thing is: the speeds of missiles, maybe they are maximum speeds but they go slower when accelerating at first, or turning to follow a moving target by making course corrections as they close range and it makes unpredictable movements?

This makes sense, but I would just use it as a justification as to why players can shoot down missiles in the first place (with mini-missiles being the prime example as to why they otherwise should not be able to).

That said, unguided missiles do not really have that option (course corrections), and the majority of missiles a player uses/encounters is going to be unguided, so this can't really be. It's stupid, especially given that most missiles a typical vehicle/robot/PA has are in launchers that are in weird positions. But it's also in the mechanics. I'd say that maybe there's some kind of fly-by-wire system, but the game does not say, and I believe there are examples of such systems, which would imply that it's a "no" in regards to such.

[Alrik Vas]

the other issue being that since it takes time to get up to speed, but they travel several miles in a short second or two anyway, and palladium doesn't take into account travel time for actions...very well...I think that shooting a missile down is fine for a roleplaying game of action and excitement like rifts...